$19,900.00 escaped HF ear tagged buck shot by teen; story from F&S.

So now that it was taken LF is it good for B&C?

Serious question: Are high fenced deer considered livestock?

I know if a neighbor's cow(s) wander onto my property, that does not mean I have a right to them. Are deer not considered the same? Or depends on the state's statutes?

Is there no recourse for the ranch owner from whom the deer escaped to receive compensation?

Just curious if there's a difference and why?

So now that it was taken LF is it good for B&C?

I think the tag in his ear would eliminate him for consideration.

No. Deer are not protected under livestock statutes

So now that it was taken LF is it good for B&C?

So what about exotics? Do they qualify as livestock that people sell hunts for or whats the take on that?

If it acted "pet tame", I would have a problem shooting it to be honest, like walking up to me for food. Running across the pasture BOOM!

I think it's illegal to shoot an exotic that's wandered if it has an ear tag or...a tattoo. I have yet to figure out how to identify if an animal has an ear tattoo at 50+ yards.

"...20 yards from his blind ...." ;
Buck was knocking on the door saying 'hey, you got any Cheetos in there ??'

Biggest thing make damn sure it isn't endangered and requires CITES tags....

Regardless how one feels about HF operations this wasn't a neighborly thing to do. This type of thing tends to come back on folks. I would have called that neighbor or at least made an attempt to. I see something obviously tagged on my property I'm going to try and find its owner before I just blast away. Always take the High road. That behavior will go a long way in the end!

Regardless how one feels about HF operations this wasn't a neighborly thing to do. This type of thing tends to come back on folks. I would have called that neighbor or at least made an attempt to. I see something obviously tagged on my property I'm going to try and find its owner before I just blast away. Always take the High road. That behavior will go a long way in the end!

Give him another year to mature.

try to find the owner and then what? "hey, uh, i think one of your deer ran past me this morning, he was right over there, wanna go look for him?"

Article stated the deer was on his game cameras wondering the property he hunts. I'm sure if someone had 20k to spend on a deer they could probably round up the funds and man power for some darting. Ever heard of Pneu-Dart or Dan-Inject? http://www.pneudart.com/ http://daninjectdartguns.com/why-daninject/

Use to dart cattle with one... Wild whitetails a little different you basically have to get in bow range...

I don't believe that is 100% accurate. The owner of the animal has the recourse not the landowner of which you are hunting. I know there was a case going to trial last year in Jack County over this exact thing. I need to follow up and find the resolution.

That's like finding a bag of money in the woods. I'm taking it enjoying and that's all there is to it.

Darn tootin I would. Gonna be hard to top for the rest of his life though.

I think I would have called the neighbor. If the neighbor had a hunter I would have charged a $19,900 trespass fee. Well, maybe split the fee and put it in my kids college fund.

If an escaped HF freak is what your after, I would have to agree. I wouldn't see it as any great accomplishment.

why would anyone care if YOU see THEIR deer as a great accomplishment or not? and why do you care to begin with? is killing a deer about recognition?

and what if the hunter was your kid and it was the greastest day of his life? would you poopoo it?

ego is the underlying issue with most HF/LF threads.

why would anyone care if YOU see THEIR deer as a great accomplishment or not? and why do you care to begin with? is killing a deer about recognition?

and what if the hunter was your kid and it was the greastest day of his life? would you poopoo it?

ego is the underlying issue with most HF/LF threads.

If they will give me $17999.00 I would not shoot it, I would even go as low as $10000.00..............

I have no idea what you’re talking about. If it was the greatest day of his life, I would think it was due to the accomplishment of shooting the deer...... If shooting the neighbors livestock with an ear tag in his ear (a tag put in by the owner's of the animal) is the greatest day of the guys life, I would just have to use the phase my grandmother always used, "bless his little heart."
I mean, I have no comprehension of why this would be someone's greatest day of their life. It could be a 400" deer.....who cares? Call it captive, livestock, pet, whatever......killing it an displaying it a trophy is a complete joke.

just call it a great looking buck and move on. nobody is saying the kid is the next fred bear for killing it.

I'm sorry, but that deer has an ugly rack. If it makes the kid or whoever pay's $20k
for that sort of thing happy; then more power to them. I'd rather have something that has
that classic symmetrical look. Big strong rack, but not freaky.

Agreed, just doesn't look natural!

Not mention I might be scared to eat the meat.
I mean what have they been feeding that thing?

Rack is so ugly I wouldn't put in a tool shed.

why would anyone care if YOU see THEIR deer as a great accomplishment or not? and why do you care to begin with? is killing a deer about recognition?

and what if the hunter was your kid and it was the greastest day of his life? would you poopoo it?

ego is the underlying issue with most HF/LF threads.

but if it was a native LF deer, and still looked the exact same, would you shoot it? eat it? and maybe even leave it in the garage? or would it still be too ugly?

Do they really ever get like that in the wild?

In this theoretical, am I hunting next to a toxic waste site or a nuclear plant?

PS....I wonder if we have any TX lawyers in here on THF that could answer the question for harvesting this deer and what the liability would be as escaped property? Just asking.

I agree with MarkE.

I would never poopoo a kid. It does sadden me that many kids are being raised to think the kill/size is the accomplishment rather than the hunting experience. But, again, I would never say anything negative to anyone about their deer.

And I agree with your last sentence in part. Ego certainly drives the HF industry. It does not drive the opposition (I presume you are referring to/making the "jealousy" argument.) That is just what the HF supporters say so they can justify themselves. Or say because they think since ego drives them it must drive everyone else also.

I am not a lawyer and not an expert, but from my understanding, if the deer escapes the HF, it is free game.

There was one killed in Brownwood not too long ago. It was a monster and was known to have lived on the neighbors place. Nothing the "owner" could do about it.

Yep. And in my analogy the person who dropped the $20,000 would have no winnable legal recourse unless they had recorded the serial numbers on their money.

But I still would pick it up and give it back to them. I wouldn't feel right taking their money.

Wow.

So "ego" drives the HF community. But it doesn't drive the LF community.

NP gets the "Don't worry about the speck in your brothers' eye, when there's a log in your own eye" award for the day.

See, and there I was trying to be nice.

There is a difference between cash and deer, Once the deer are turned out to hunt they become the states property so when the deer gets loose it is fair game, I would hate to loose a $20k deer would make a person sick to loose 20k but if it got out of my HF property I would have to give the person who shot it a big ole high five for getting a deer of a lifetime..

but if it got out of my HF property I would have to give the person who shot it a big ole high five for getting a deer of a lifetime..

Nah, not really. The kid knew who's property had been "dropped". If it was a $20,000 wedding ring that hadn't been documented, it would be the same "finder's keepers" situation as my earlier cash analogy.

The point is that in this situation the kid saw the "ring" hit the floor, and watched the old lady walk out of the store and picked it up and pocketed the ring. Then showed everyone the ring, and bragged that he'd just "found" it.

IMO just because it's "legal" isn't justification for not giving the property back to it's owner. IN EVERY SITUATION.

A lot of people here trying to justify their stance by declaring it "legal", when in fact it's more of a moral issue.

And I think it's a sad indictment of where we are today.

How difficult would it be to try to capture the deer and return it? From my experience with transporting the "tamer" deer that are raised in pens, it is very stressful on the animal. Would it be more difficult trying to hunt them and capture them off the neighbors land?

If it was your deer that escaped, would you attempt a recovery?

Well that kid was raised right! He's only 17 and is leaving the tag in the ear of his mount. I wish all tagged deer or deer taken from hf would be marked on their mount(anything not free range).

I think I get this; there's probably a big difference in opinion from ranchers who own(not lease) and have had neighbors for 40 years. You work cattle together, you fence together, you farm together, etc. The other hunter is a guy with a new AR, who's from the big city, different set of values. Different results.

Why?

dang city folk messin everything up again...

therancher, are you city?

If it's deer season and it's a legal deer, shoot him. I have nothing against HF deer hunting (if you want to call it that), but your deer running loose are not on my list of problems.

Edited to add: That's not totally honest of me, I think high fence harvesting is not hunting at all. So, I have a negative view of high fence hunting. That deer is the state's property once it's loose so don't let it loose and no one will shoot it for you. If you lose the opportunity to shoot your pet, it's a lick on you. I couldn't care less.

You can tell deer season is over for the most part. This thread would never have lasted this long 2 months ago.

I will not lie, cheat, or steal. Nor tolerate those who do.

If it was stealing, it would be illegal. I didn't cast stones with those who disagree, but some of you are acting like members of the presidents party where everyone who disagrees with you must be a bad person since they are not as high and mighty as you are.

Please show me the law that is being broken by shooting a deer that is not penned. In my experience, HF deer are raised for blowhards and showoffs. Your experience may vary and that's fair enough. I grew up hunting and fishing. I don't skillet shoot ducks and I don't shoot animals in pens, whether it be a half acre or a 100 acre pen. It's your business if you do, just don't expect me to respect something that I have no respect for. Whitetail deer are not cows, no matter how hard you try to pretend.

If you want to pen whitetail deer legally, that is none of my concern. If I shoot a free roaming deer that the state of Texas considers public property, that does not make me a thief. Write your state legislator and get the law changed if you want things to be different.

I edited my post because I wanted to make sure I was coming across honestly. If that kicked sand in your panties, I apologize.

I enjoyed reading all the comments. The natural instinct in me as a hunter would want to shoot,....but then, If I knew it was a pen raised ear tagged deer escaped from a neighbor's property....I'd probably pass on the shot and let the owner know his whereabouts (just to be neighborly) and ask what his intentions were for the escaped deer. But keep your posts coming. All good responses so far.

PS....I wonder if we have any TX lawyers in here on THF that could answer the question for harvesting this deer and what the liability would be as escaped property? Just asking.

Grew up in the city. Raised by country parents. I haven't lived in a city since graduating HS many years ago.

I was taught if your neighbor (or even anyone you don't know) loses something and you find it, you give it back.

I find it ironic that one above who states he wouldn't steal, in his sig line, sees no problem in taking his neighbors assets because of a geographical issue.

I am not a lawyer, but I do know EXACTLY what the law states on this matter, and it comes directly from TP&W headquarters in Austin. Any NATIVE species that escapes an enclosure is fair game, under any applicable hunting laws/regulations. Does not matter how many ear tags, collars, nose rings, etc that it may have. Original "owner" has no legal recourse. If it is a non-native species, and it has a VISIBLE identifying mark (I was told the visible part is the important part), such as ane ear tag, it is considered livestock, and therefore illegal to kill or posses without owners permission. That is the law in Texas.

What is "the law" the law is your morals, your upbringing, your faith, etc.

A lot of people feel when a HF goes up, you are stealing from the state by calling the animals you have now enclosed as your own.

Only on this forum would the folks who hunt in a big cage consider themselves the keepers of the moral high ground. State law doesn't matter, all that is important is justifying you and your rich buddies lazy and unethical hunting practices.

Only on this forum would the folks who hunt in a big cage consider themselves the keepers of the moral high ground. State law doesn't matter, all that is important is justifying you and your rich buddies lazy and unethical hunting practices.

Nah, not really. The kid knew who's property had been "dropped". If it was a $20,000 wedding ring that hadn't been documented, it would be the same "finder's keepers" situation as my earlier cash analogy.

The point is that in this situation the kid saw the "ring" hit the floor, and watched the old lady walk out of the store and picked it up and pocketed the ring. Then showed everyone the ring, and bragged that he'd just "found" it.

IMO just because it's "legal" isn't justification for not giving the property back to it's owner. IN EVERY SITUATION.

A lot of people here trying to justify their stance by declaring it "legal", when in fact it's more of a moral issue.

And I think it's a sad indictment of where we are today.

I'll keep that in mind the next time you roll out the "it's a legal method of hunting" line..

A lot of people feel when a HF goes up, you are stealing from the state by calling the animals you have now enclosed as your own.

Late to this, but this is exactly right. Ironic how those whose livestock got out and got shot call it stealing, but they can build a pen enclosing the state's/people's property and it automatically becomes theirs.

As far as the situation, the kid was well within his right to shoot a legal game animal.

Yes. Hypocrisy at its finest.

Never ever said the kid wasn't legally killing the deer. Just made the point that he knew his neighbor had lost it and chose to keep it and not to return it.

If believing when someone loses 20,000 and I find it, but rather than keep it I would return it, makes me a hypocrite then I'm fine with that.

Never ever said the kid wasn't legally killing the deer. Just made the point that he knew his neighbor had lost it and chose to keep it and not to return it.

If believing when someone loses 20,000 and I find it, but rather than keep it I would return it, makes me a hypocrite then I'm fine with that.

Little bit different than your analogy with the ring. Technically, the rancher never owned the deer, it was only worth $20k when it was behind his fence. Once it escaped, it was no longer worth $20k and was worth the same as a 120" eight point or even a doe

Little bit different than your analogy with the ring. Technically, the rancher never owned the deer, it was only worth $20k when it was behind his fence. Once it escaped, it was no longer worth $20k and was worth the same as a 120" eight point or even a doe

So you're saying they lie about ownership and calling it hunting, cheat at managing, steal from a public trust, so as a conservative it should not be tolerated?

Again. "Technically" you're right. And "technically" the old lady doesn't have a right to the $20,000 she dropped in the grocery.

What you and others conveniently keep failing to get is that IMO you shouldn't use being "technically" right to rip off someone.

But of course, we know in your case I'm talking to a barn door. Mr. "a steak and a golf game to the ranch manager makes it ok to rip off the landowner".....

Kind of like Rancher said. I think how at least I would have handled the situation and the young man may have is. Being a good neighbor you tell them I have seen on camera one of I believe your animals. Then ask if I can be of assistance in helping you recover it. If they say yes then do that. If they say there is not much anyone can do and it is fair game then you hunt it. A few years ago I had 5 Ibex male kids get out of my place. They were spotted about 3/4 of a mile from here. I contacted all the neighbors I could and explained the situation to them. They all told me to do what ever was necessary to retrieve them and that I had complete access to their properties if need be. It took about a week but I got them back. Being a good neighbor will always pay off in the end.

Kind of like Rancher said. I think how at least I would have handled the situation and the young man may have is. Being a good neighbor you tell them I have seen on camera one of I believe your animals. Then ask if I can be of assistance in helping you recover it. If they say yes then do that. If they say there is not much anyone can do and it is fair game then you hunt it. A few years ago I had 5 Ibex male kids get out of my place. They were spotted about 3/4 of a mile from here. I contacted all the neighbors I could and explained the situation to them. They all told me to do what ever was necessary to retrieve them and that I had complete access to their properties if need be. It took about a week but I got them back. Being a good neighbor will always pay off in the end.

Even the attorney agreed that the old lady would be screwed but hey, if your gonna use a technicality to justify taking from another I can't help you.

Kind of like Rancher said. I think how at least I would have handled the situation and the young man may have is. Being a good neighbor you tell them I have seen on camera one of I believe your animals. Then ask if I can be of assistance in helping you recover it. If they say yes then do that. If they say there is not much anyone can do and it is fair game then you hunt it. A few years ago I had 5 Ibex male kids get out of my place. They were spotted about 3/4 of a mile from here. I contacted all the neighbors I could and explained the situation to them. They all told me to do what ever was necessary to retrieve them and that I had complete access to their properties if need be. It took about a week but I got them back. Being a good neighbor will always pay off in the end.

Brings back memories of a lot of dead bison left to rot in the panhandle a few years back.

After reading this thread, I'm confused. This is how I'm reading it. Morally (not legally) if an expensive whitetail escapes a HF, then it should be considered livestock and not shot. However, if the same whitetail doesn't escape the HF, then morally he isn't considered livestock and no one better call it that or you get flamed.

Is that it in a nutshell?

After reading this thread, I'm confused. This is how I'm reading it. Morally (not legally) if an expensive whitetail escapes a HF, then it should be considered livestock and not shot. However, if the same whitetail doesn't escape the HF, then morally he isn't considered livestock and no one better call it that or you get flamed.

Is that it in a nutshell?

So you're saying they lie about ownership and calling it hunting, cheat at managing, steal from a public trust, so as a conservative it should not be tolerated?

After reading this thread, I'm confused. This is how I'm reading it. Morally (not legally) if an expensive whitetail escapes a HF, then it should be considered livestock and not shot. However, if the same whitetail doesn't escape the HF, then morally he isn't considered livestock and no one better call it that or you get flamed.

Is that it in a nutshell?

Yes, that's pretty much it.

Yes, that's pretty much it.

Could someone direct me to a link where TPWD or the State of Texas refers to the circumstance where Whitetail become "Livestock"

Thanks

Could someone direct me to a link where TPWD or the State of Texas refers to the circumstance where Whitetail become "Livestock"

Thanks

If so, the shooting deer inside a high fence equates to shooting livestock.

And here I thought everyone had hugged and made up.

Ignoring the facts again. As you know, I don't get miffed at all by someone else's choice of nomenclature.

Morally, they are either livestock, or they are not livestock. Pick one.

The term has absolutely nothing to do with whether it is morally right to return (or at least notify the owner) when you find something that they've lost.

It's very easy for me to understand that. Because I was raised to respect my neighbors enough to return lost ANYTHING.

Obviously you and I don't share those values because you (and many others here) are trying to use semantics to justify your position.

My point is not whether it was right for the young man to shoot the deer. My point is that even folks like you consider them as livestock. When a person shoots an animal with a tag in it's ear, they are shooting livestock. Nothing more, nothing less.

All I'm saying is I think it's a sad indictment on our society that so many celebrate someone who knowingly kept what someone else lost.

"scientific" (that's a laugh) breeder permits

I don't think you'd know the definition of "science" if it bit you square in the azz.

It's pretty scientific when deer breeders can take your doe, pull her egg out, fertilize it and guarantee it will be a buck fawn.

But that's alright, silly comments are a habit with you.

Piddly deer breeder can't guarantee that. Geneticists can when they come across a male blast....do that to free ranging people so it's not like some miracle is being preformed inside a deer breeder pen.

But the livestock they "lost" was stolen in the first place when someone put up a pen around animals that belonged to the citizens of the state and started calling them their own. Do you still not see the irony? The only step you're skipping in your ring analogy was that you stole the ring from it's rightful owner in the first place and it ended up back where it belonged.

High fence all you want, but don't piss and moan when one of your pets gets loose and gets shot by another hunter.

My point is not whether it was right for the young man to shoot the deer. My point is that even folks like you consider them as livestock. When a person shoots an animal with a tag in it's ear, they are shooting livestock. Nothing more, nothing less.

Some of you folks need to get a little more comfortable in your skin. All I'm doing is holding up the mirror so you can see your reflection. Don't blame me if what you see in that mirror isn't pretty.

Well then, if it is livestock, then I'm sure you feel like it was wrong for the boy to shoot his neighbors livestock. Glad to hear that.

Me? It doesn't matter to me at all what you call it. I would believe it was wrong because my neighbor lost it. Don't matter what it is.

It can be found at the same place where TPWD or the State of Texas refers to an "escaped" whitetail as someones property

Bought tagged and marked. That deer wasn't anything the public lands produced. But don't let the facts clear the view in your mirror...

Nothing scientific about performing collection and waiting on the genetics labs to sort it.

Sorry, but that admonition doesn't pack much punch coming from a scorched-earther like you.

The law doesn't say that. The law does say that all wild fauna in the state belong to the public. Texas Wildlife Code 11.011 IIRC.

The HFs, tagging, TTT permits, "scientific" (that's a laugh) breeder permits, and the entire industry all made possible by the fences kind of make a mockery of that.

Most folks employing common sense, including the HF folks who exercise all the rights of ownership, equate the animals to livestock. Most in the business directly refer to their ownership and the "livestock" status.

It's only when strained arguments are being made during HF discussions that any pretense otherwise is attempted.

That ain't how it's done at high rack ranch and others. On site. Sorry to bust ur bubble.

Them labs are mobile..freezing cuts it down to an effective rate below 80.

Texas Wildlife Code 11.011 IIRC.

Sec. 11.011. PARKS AND WILDLIFE DEPARTMENT. The Parks and Wildlife Department is established as an agency of the state. It is under the policy direction of the Parks and Wildlife Commission.

L

Do you know what IIRC means?

Sorry, it's Sec. 1.011:

"PROPERTY OF THE STATE (A) All wild animals, fur bearing animals, wild birds, and wild fowl inside the borders of this state are the property of the people of this state."

Yeah, that one's kinda been trampled on.....

Well, sheephunter there are the facts. Sorry I was off a number. It's not like I was making them up.

But I get talking about me is a way to not have to deal with/respond to the facts. I'm pretty used to it by now.

Wow...19 pages and counting. I'm sure glad that kid didn't shoot the deer with a
.223 in a county with antler restrictions on a canned hunt.

Or did he?

NP; Don't we the people still own the wild game? And we the people appointed TPWD to watch after them under a Texas Wildlife Code which states

Sec. 1.013. FENCES. This code does not prohibit or restrict the owner or occupant of land from constructing or maintaining a fence of any height on the land owned or occupied, and an owner or occupant who constructs such a fence is not liable for the restriction of the movement of wild animals by the fence. The existence of a fence does not affect the status of “wild” animals as property of the people of this state.

Should anti-HF comments be more directed straight to TPWD than directed towards law bidding citizen who are following the law? Seems like these type of comments would be better served on a political forum than some trying to make HF hunters into livestock killers on a hunting forum. Division within this hunting community could not be a good thing.

Maybe it's more like trying to bluff your way with a knife in a gun fight. Can't win so hurl insults.

Have a blessed day.

Where does all this "hurl insults" and "getting personal", etc. stuff directed at me come from?

I don't engage in those tactics. But I am regularly accused of it. I guess when facts and arguments hit hard enough people perceive them as personal. IDK.

I direct my comments a lot of places. I also direct them here, as public opinion is the underpinning of change. I don't need anyone's advice on how or what to do. What is it about open discussion that scares people?

The "division" argument is a crock. The issue is what's divisive, not me. Just the nature of shooting penned animals. Many don't like it. Newsflash: it's not just me. One way to do away with the division would be to do away with the pens.

Division within this hunting community could not be a good thing.

Wow...19 pages and counting. I'm sure glad that kid didn't shoot the deer with a
.223 in a county with antler restrictions on a canned hunt.

Or did he?

You're assuming that all of us consider those hunting caged animals in a pen part of the hunting community.

Here you go NP.



When the HF goes away you can pass this back

You're assuming that all of us consider those hunting caged animals in a pen part of the hunting community.

I sure hope you have never murdered a poor animal you had to lure to you over a feeder while sitting in a blind way up in the sky. See I can make your way sound dumb too. But good for you for being such an elite hunter, must be awesome!

Oh, it probably won't go away. In TX it's pretty much embedded in the DNA. As is evident on here, many folks have deluded themselves into thinking that as long as an animal dies it's all the same.

Ignore the obvious, dismiss the arguments, call other viewpoints divisive and, finally, just declare victory.

People have to sleep with themselves. Life can be tough if you think about stuff too much. Especially where money and/or ego are involved.

Clearly our definition of a caged pen are miles apart. Some people just a small minds.

Are they in a cage? There is only two possible answers. Talk about a small mind.....

You have no clue what I have done or not done.....but I knew that already. Nice try.

Letter of the law or spirit of the law. Kid wasn't a neighbor I'd want. Its become the new norm to find any loop hole with any principle or standard and push the envelop. Sad!

I guess you don't fish in lakes either. All animals in fact are limited in their home range. Especially but not dependent on sparse cover.

Don't let the facts get in the way of your bashing though.

So you have never hunted out of a blind over a feeder?

Are they in a cage? There is only two possible answers. Talk about a small mind.....

That's the dumbest analogy I've ever heard....well, except for your wedding ring one. All animals are limited by their home range....UNLESS that range is limited by other means, like...oh, I don't know.....perhaps a pen? I guess I would fish in the lake and you could fish in a basket filled with fish in the same lake. There's the difference....

x2 that one was stupid, so was the one about hunting over feeders, they are two different arguments. It's the classic compare it to something that other people are going to agree with to try to get them to agree with the current issue at hand. People on this forum are not that stupid...and read the definition of a cage-> "a structure of bars or wires in which birds or other animals are confined", aka High Fence, they are synonymous.

witch side was the ear tag in? back in the day young buck had an ear ring, he was eather gay or on drugs.

I believe it can easily be said that there are diverse opinions on this subject with all sides having value in their own argument. Would it be possible to simply say that we all can agree to disagree? Each of us may differ greatly and passionately in our viewpoints. We may not like another person's view of it, but their passion is no different than that of your own view, which in it's own way, should bring about a mutual respect. Diversity is what makes this great country of ours so unique. So next time you want to attempt impose your view on people that may not see things your way, just remember that may be the person you end up back to back with fighting against terrorists that have come to impose their will on all of us...

That would probably be true if the fight for legislation and to make one's way of hunting or what they can and cannot do on their property illegal. No different than those that fight over hunting a feeder and those trying to make the feeder illegal. There are certain places in America that both the HF and the feeder are illegal, otherwise, I don't believe that these arguments would be as heated or as passionate as they are.

As much as I enjoy a good debate, IMO, there is a place for a HF and it has its advantages. Some people don't like them and I can understand why, while there are others that have a preconceived notion based on a few bad examples. It will be a never ending argument that neither side will ever agree on.

Yes sir...totally agree. My overall point on this I guess is in the big scheme of things, it's not really that big of a deal...

Yes sir...totally agree. My overall point on this I guess is in the big scheme of things, it's not really that big of a deal...

We don't hunt the same ways.

The difference between us is that you guys would outlaw our way of hunting. We fully support the way you hunt.

You guys would keep something of great value that your neighbor lost. We would tell him about it and help him recover it.

Guess what guys, I'm real comfortable with those differences.

Personally.. high fence, low fence.. does not matter to me.

I make it fair.

I leave a pistol down by the feeder. That way, they can always pick it up and shoot back.

Personally.. high fence, low fence.. does not matter to me.

I make it fair.

I leave a pistol down by the feeder. That way, they can always pick it up and shoot back.

I guess the bottom line for me is this.

If my neighbor put his money clip with $5000 in it on the dash of his truck and while driving down the road it blew out his window onto the edge of my property it would hurt him financially. I found the money clip, recognized it as his money clip but decided his loss was my gain and kept the money.

Would anyone think that is right?

I guess the bottom line for me is this.

If my neighbor put his money clip with $5000 in it on the dash of his truck and while driving down the road it blew out his window onto the edge of my property it would hurt him financially. I found the money clip, recognized it as his money clip but decided his loss was my gain and kept the money.

Would anyone think that is right?

If it acted "pet tame", I would have a problem shooting it to be honest, like walking up to me for food. Running across the pasture BOOM!

Your the one skewing Wisco.

Plain and simple: Would you take something of great value that your neighbor bought, just because you could get away with it? That's exactly what happened.

Sadly, we all know how you and many here would answer that. It's a disgusting indictment on what our society has become.

I guess the bottom line for me is this.

If my neighbor put his money clip with $5000 in it on the dash of his truck and while driving down the road it blew out his window onto the edge of my property it would hurt him financially. I found the money clip, recognized it as his money clip but decided his loss was my gain and kept the money.

Would anyone think that is right?

The difference here is that money belonged to him. Of course returning it would be the right thing to do and I would think most would do just that, including me. However the game animals in the state of Texas belong to the citizens of the state of Texas. If you're going to cage them, then make sure you keep them caged or else someone else who has every right to harvest them might do it.

Folks keep comparing something you can't own to rings, money, cattle,etc. You can own all of those things as your personal property. You do not and can not personally own deer so how can something that does not belong to you be stolen from you?

5 day Whitetail hunt $5,500.00 Anytown, USA.

You have the right to hunt it or sell the hunt because it's on your land or even in your pen. When it's not, you don't have any more rights to it than the next guy.

You have the right to hunt it or sell the hunt because it's on your land or even in your pen. When it's not, you don't have any more rights to it than the next guy.

I personally wouldn't shoot the deer because I'm a trophy hunter and a deer with a tag in the ear does not equate to a trophy for me. But because some people would opt to shoot the deer for trophy or food reasons, certainly does not make them "a disgusting indictment on what our society has become." I would not take something of great value from my neighbor even if I could get away with it, I don't care if you think I would, I will be judged by one man and that's not you. You do seem a little butt hurt by the whole thing, hold those tears in Bubba, it's a hunting forum, people will have different opinions.

Right on Ron, one guy says the deer is worth 19.9k and another guy might see it as meat and value the deer at 300 bucks, maybe the kid should pay the guy that caged the animal 300 bucks and call it even...maybe even tell him to use the money to fix his cage.

Yes, doesn't seem the "holier-than-thous" have any qualms about caging in a bunch of wild animals (defined by law to belong to the public) to prevent others from having a chance at them, because they will defend it to their last breath.

You can cut the hypocrisy with a knife.

There is no hypocrisy in this question. Why don't you answer it?

Plain and simple: Would you take something of great value that your neighbor bought, just because you could get away with it? That's exactly what happened.

Sadly, we all know how you and many here would answer that. It's a disgusting indictment on what our society has become.

There is no hypocrisy in this question. Why don't you answer it?

Plain and simple: Would you take something of great value that your neighbor bought, just because you could get away with it? That's exactly what happened.

Sadly, we all know how you and many here would answer that. It's a disgusting indictment on what our society has become.

You are caging something that belongs to the citizens of the state and calling it your own. That is the disgusting indictment. The fact that you bought it is your problem. If it gets out and gets taken legally by a citizen that owns it, so be it. They have every right.

Moral to the story, keep your pets on a leash. That should solve your issues and stop your crying.

I think it's the landowner's responsibility to maintain his cages. If an animal gets out, it's fair game.

You really should read slower. Again, you would keep something of great value that your neighbor lost, just because you have a right to .

That sir, is disgusting.

And no. You and NP don't own any deer, the state government does. And they are perfectly fine with high fences.

Shucking and jiving doesn't change the truth.

You really should read slower. Again, you would keep something of great value that your neighbor lost, just because you have a right to .

That sir, is disgusting.

And no. You and NP don't own any deer, the state government does. And they are perfectly fine with high fences.

Shucking and jiving doesn't change the truth.

You really should read slower rancher, ONCE AGAIN, it doesn't have a great value to everyone, it's a perceived value, and ONCE AGAIN, your neighbor didn't lose it, it escaped it's cage, some would use the term "liberated". I ask you to show me where this great value comes from, to most of the people that hunt free range/low fence deer, a tagged deer has little to no value. This deer was feeding on the neighbors lands, why wouldn't anybody shoot an animal that was eating their feed. Ask yourself this...if the neighbor tagged a wild hog, and it escaped, would you shoot it when it came onto your land and ate all of your feed??? It's the same thing, both are priceless and/or worthless to different hunters, it's all in your perception. Keep caging your animals, shooting your pets, and telling yourself your a great hunter...just quit calling everybody disgusting. Unfortunately, for you rancher, and read this one very very slowly, there's a large amount of people on here that would consider the way you hunt disgusting but we keep our insults to ourselves because we understand everybody is entitled to their OPINIONS.

You are the one who needs to learn to read. You forgot the part about you penning up animals that belong to the state and calling them your own. Of course, I knew you would leave that part out.

AND I already told you earlier in the thread that if it were me, I would gladly put your pet on a leash.....after getting our picture taken together of course and maybe yucking it up over a couple of cold ones.....and lead him back to the one who's keeping him captive in a pen. But that's just because I think shooting your livestock with a tag in its ear, whether it escapes or is being held in your cage, is no different than shooting someone's goat or calf. And probably less difficult.

But make no mistake, if your pet gets loose and gets shot, you have no one to blame but yourself. It belongs to the people, not to you, which makes every analogy you have spewed forth in this thread

Do you really not see the hypocrisy here? I mean you just said it belonged to, as you put it, the state government, not you. Yet you refer to them as your own property. Go figure.

The crying continues.....

Can someone please address the rational behind hating high fence and being just fine with climbing up in a blind where they deer can't see you, and waiting for them to come to a feeder that is timed....seriously, I want to here how you justify one and not the other. Both are legal? And like I've said, bring a none hunter from another state out to a ranch with high fence and feeders - see which one they laugh at first, the fence or Feeders. Nobody has answered that because it's inconvenient. Seriously though, I want to hear the thought proccess.

Can someone please address the rational behind hating high fence and being just fine with climbing up in a blind where they deer can't see you, and waiting for them to come to a feeder that is timed....seriously, I want to here how you justify one and not the other. Both are legal? And like I've said, bring a none hunter from another state out to a ranch with high fence and feeders - see which one they laugh at first, the fence or Feeders. Nobody has answered that because it's inconvenient. Seriously though, I want to hear the thought proccess.

Again...Unfortunately, for you rancher, and read this one very very slowly, there's a large amount of people on here that would consider the way you hunt disgusting but we keep our insults to ourselves because we understand everybody is entitled to their OPINIONS.

So when I look in the mirror, according to you I'm supposed to see a crook? You're a funny guy Bubba, and what's so silly about the value of the deer? So you want me to believe that because the ranch labeled a deer worth 19.9k and the internet says it's worth money that its worth that??? I can put a price tag on anything and try to sell it, it doesn't make it valuable. I will tell you that deer is worth zero dollars to me and I would be viewed at as a nuisance by me. So riddle me this genius, if I say it's worth nothing and you say it's worth 19.9k, who is correct??? Nobody you clown, it's a perceived value, it has different values to everybody.

And you never answered the question, if it was a tagged feral hog would you feel the same way, why don't you look in the mirror and tell yourself you would call the owner to return it...yeah buddy that's what I thought

Could have been a huge boar he brought in for someone to hunt. Same scenario. Different species of game animal. Makes no difference.

No, I never said they belong to the landowner.

Again...Unfortunately, for you rancher, and read this one very very slowly, there's a large amount of people on here that would consider the way you hunt disgusting but we keep our insults to ourselves because we understand everybody is entitled to their OPINIONS.

So when I look in the mirror, according to you I'm supposed to see a crook? You're a funny guy Bubba, and what's so silly about the value of the deer? So you want me to believe that because the ranch labeled a deer worth 19.9k and the internet says it's worth money that its worth that??? I can put a price tag on anything and try to sell it, it doesn't make it valuable. I will tell you that deer is worth zero dollars to me and I would be viewed at as a nuisance by me. So riddle me this genius, if I say it's worth nothing and you say it's worth 19.9k, who is correct??? Nobody you clown, it's a perceived value, it has different values to everybody.

And you never answered the question, if it was a tagged feral hog would you feel the same way, why don't you look in the mirror and tell yourself you would call the owner to return it...yeah buddy that's what I thought

At least in Texas, even if it is a purchased breeder deer it is still considered to be state property. So once it's out, it is just as legal as any other deer. Like I said, it's part of the risk of breeding deer just like I have risks in the business I do. But when i think about losing 20k of inventory in my business, I would really appreciate the opportunity for it to be returned instead of someone keeping it on a technicallity. I guess that is the part that stings a bit.

How would you go about returning a deer?

I would trade my feeder for a fresh cut corn or soybean field any day all day.

How would you go about returning a deer?

Snap a lead to the halter and walk it back...????

Snap a lead to the halter and walk it back...????

Again, it's just funny to hear folks who will cage in a herd of deer that by law belong to the public (not the State-TPW Code Sec. 1.011) for their own purposes preach about the poor ethics of a kid who shoots an escapee.

You can't use the law as a shield for your own behavior and ignore it when commenting on the behavior of others.

Or you could call the place and say, "hey one of your deer is over here, I wanted to let you since I know it would suck to lose something worth 20k". And see what they said, maybe they would say shoot it, maybe they would say I have a guy who wants to shoot it and if you let me take him over there I will split the profit with you......or you could just shoot it and say nothing, then send the pic to field and stream.

Again, it's just funny to hear folks who will cage in a herd of deer that by law belong to the public (not the State-TPW Code Sec. 1.011) for their own purposes preach about the poor ethics of a kid who shoots an escapee.

You can't use the law as a shield for your own behavior and ignore it when commenting on the behavior of others.

Ah. Mistaken again. I never implied you were/would be a crook. Just someone who would keep things of value your neighbor lost. You admit that.

Again, we are not talking about feral hogs. We are talking about a deer that has so much value it warranted a magazine article, newspaper articles and praise from a large segment of the community both hunters and nonhunters.

Reality sux huh?

Actually it isnt one's perception. It's what the market is, I think golf is worth about $10 a round (it's my perception) but the market tells me it is $60 a round here. I can play minature golf for $10 a round.....I can shoot a minature deer for $300 bucks. But you cant confuse your perception with what the market is. Two very different things.

Ethics is how many HFs started. Most the HF places I know were made because neighbors would shoot anything and everything. So up went the HF.
A common story I have heard is of those that were shooting there limit (5 deer), and so was their kids, their wife, and friends from a 20 acre lot, also used the law as a shield, what they did was perfectly legal too.
I also find it odd that you will quote a law, and then complain about others using the law as a defense.

The value of that deer was $20k behind the fence. When the deer left the HF place, it no longer had that value and had no more monetary value than a doe or a 4 pointer.

I actually see your point here, like I said - one of the risks of being a deer breeder is having them escape your "cage" as we like to call it. But I would say it still has value, I think whoever is willing to pay 20k to shoot that deer would be willing to do it whether it was in its cage or out of its cage. Maybe not, I dont have 20k to spend on a deer so I cant answer that. I dont think it diminishes in value, just because it becomes legal to shoot - that's been the whole thing here, who would just shoot it or who would at least reach out to the person who spent money on it? Some would just shoot it, some people feel like if someone spent their time and money on anything (not just a deer) the right thing to do would at least be to contact the person. Not for me to say, it was legal - so he didnt break a rule.

The value of that deer was $20k behind the fence. When the deer left the HF place, it no longer had that value and had no more monetary value than a doe or a 4 pointer.

I have never said it was theft, it wasnt - I said it was legal. It is a risk of being a breeder. I hear people complain a lot that the neighbor shot a deer they had been watching for years after the neighbor put a feeder right on their fence line. It's legal, but it stings. It would sting worse had the person spent 20k. Or knew the deer was worth 20k. I dont really care, I just am saying I would make a phone call. Or I hope I would make a phone call, it hasnt ever happened to me, but I would like to think I would at least reach out. I wouldnt add insult to injury and start preaching about high fences, and how the guy is an idiot for having deer in a high fence. I just dont see the point in that.

The value of that deer was $20k behind the fence. When the deer left the HF place, it no longer had that value and had no more monetary value than a doe or a 4 pointer.

Nope. A 200" deer outside a HF is actually worth more than one behind the fence. You know that.

I sold that 190" LF deer for 17,000, no way can I get 17000 for it behind a high fence.

[/quote]

I get this^^^and it sucks for the person running the deer farm, but the deer has no set monetary value once it has liberated itself. I still don't get how everyone that disagrees with your OPINION is "disgusting"???

My sister got that gene too, good lord we shouldn't have kids come to think of it. Someone want to pay me 20k not to reproduce? I can stop the bloodline for a price?

[/quote]

I get this^^^and it sucks for the person running the deer farm, but the deer has no set monetary value once it has liberated itself. I still don't get how everyone that disagrees with your OPINION is "disgusting"???

I get this^^^and it sucks for the person running the deer farm, but the deer has no set monetary value once it has liberated itself. I still don't get how everyone that disagrees with your OPINION is "disgusting"???

I get this^^^and it sucks for the person running the deer farm, but the deer has no set monetary value once it has liberated itself. I still don't get how everyone that disagrees with your OPINION is "disgusting"???

I guess I need to meet him then.

I get this^^^and it sucks for the person running the deer farm, but the deer has no set monetary value once it has liberated itself. I still don't get how everyone that disagrees with your OPINION is "disgusting"???

Video it please

I get this^^^and it sucks for the person running the deer farm, but the deer has no set monetary value once it has liberated itself. I still don't get how everyone that disagrees with your OPINION is "disgusting"???

I get this^^^and it sucks for the person running the deer farm, but the deer has no set monetary value once it has liberated itself. I still don't get how everyone that disagrees with your OPINION is "disgusting"???

Video it please

Again, it's just funny to hear folks who will cage in a herd of deer that by law belong to the public (not the State-TPW Code Sec. 1.011) for their own purposes preach about the poor ethics of a kid who shoots an escapee.

You can't use the law as a shield for your own behavior and ignore it when commenting on the behavior of others.

The deer was NOT a native Ohio deer that just happened to be in a high fence...this was not like some ranches in Texas that go high fence and cull/manga to improve the herd..... It was a deer purchased for a shooting preserve.

The deer had an ear tag ...the hunter knew that when he saw it on camera.. he was also aware that the deer escaped from a preserve.

So my two cents:

1. This is clearly an escaped deer not a free range deer and the hunter knew it.

2. The deer has value....we can argue what that is, but if my neighbor said to me that he had pics of a 200" plus deer on camera and he's let me hunt it if I paid him a $5000 kill fee.... I'd hunt it. So in my opinion a 200" deer walking around has some value. We can argue that but in my mind it has value.

3. If I was the hunter (and remember the hunter in the article was a 17 year old kid who never shot anything bigger than a 6 pt) and had trail cams of the deer and its ear tag...and I was aware of the preserve having a breech...I would feel obligated to notify them that I had the deer on camera. In my opinion it's a very expensive animal that they bought and owned and had now escaped. I go back to "How would I want to be treated."

Note: I came to my logic by saying if it were any animal other than a deer (which is a native species) would I notify them...my answer was yes so my logic (which may differ from yours) is to notify them. My neighbor raises alpaca and if one got loose I'd call him.

4. Now the tricky part..I'd ask them if they were going to do anything to recover/recapture the animal....If I received a yes and a request to come and try and capture it I'd help..... if I got an answer that showed no real interest to try and recover the animal..... I'd be on stand after the call trying to kill it.

The above is my opinion..it may differ from your opinion...and it doesn't make either of us right or wrong.

I remember someone from my youth who was a pretty smart hombre telling me something about not being able to have it both ways.

That's right. You don't own the deer either. The ownership of the deer was never an issue. Your willingness to take something your neighbor had invested so much in, isn't even an issue, just a sad fact.

Someone needs to just put it out there.. The kids a Douche.

I would say ownership is an issue. You can't "take" something from someone if they don't own it. To "return" something to someone that "lost" something implies they had to "own" it to ever "lose" it.

Just because you invested into something does not make it rightfully yours. I have invested in a lot of things that I do not own. We have a herd of blackbucks that live on our LF place. We have invested alot to keep them there and in the habitat to the area that they mainly stay in. All the neighbors know that we have this herd and if a BB showed up on their place, I wouldn't think they "took" something from us because they killed it.

If what you are saying is all true, then all the hunters that complain about a neighbor killing "their" deer actually have validity to their statement. Many hunters have invested thousands into the land, feed, stands, or whatever for those deer.

I guess I am confused.... The owners of the preserve "bought the deer" as a shooter buck...paid for it and have a bill of sale (obviously did not pay $19K, but let's not go there). The deer has an ear tag....THIS WAS NEVER A FREE RANGE BUCK.

How can you rationalize that the Preserve did not "own it."

I am not the one that said they didn't "own" it, therancher did. In Texas, even if you paid for the deer as a breeder or to be shot, you do not "own" it per the law. So if it is escapes, it isn't "yours" to reclaim.

As far as Ohio, I don't know the laws there.

I posted two other articles prior to my initial comment...apparently a game warden was called out so it must not have been illegal to shoot the deer. I've heard similar stories as this one in PA, KY and Ohio.....the deer are native species so that once they get out..they are fair game. In VA we had a few privately owned elk get out many years ago..... people shot them as they were not a game species in VA and there was no law covering them.

I have never heard so many people puke crap on a subject in a long time. Opinions are like a** holes. Everyone has one and some stink more that others. The preserve bought the deer. the preserve raised the deer. The reserve did not know the deer would get out. The kid saw it on camera. I am pretty sure if the preserve was concerned about the deer it would have contacted neighbors about the whereabouts of the deer. The people on here sitting on their high horse about so called cage deer are probably the first ones that have shot ear tagged deer and told the taxidermist to patch up the hole. And now it hangs in the den and they brag about how hard a hunt it was. Oh and I am on the ranchers side on this. Do I get a last warning?

I am not the one that said they didn't "own" it, therancher did. In Texas, even if you paid for the deer as a breeder or to be shot, you do not "own" it per the law. So if it is escapes, it isn't "yours" to reclaim.

As far as Ohio, I don't know the laws there.

So, did you actually "own" them and if the kid didn't break the law, then I would assume that the preserve didn't actually "own" the deer. If my cow gets out and you shoot it, you broke the law because I "own" that cow.

First off...don't use the term "you" like I am the one who owned this deer.

The boy did not break the law may have nothing to do with ownership...it may be because the law as written doesn't specify/distinguish between native free range deer and escaped deer. Chances are most hunters seeing the deer would probably never spot the ear tag..and just shoot it. So perhaps the law is written so as not to penalize people where it would be difficult to distinguish.

So just because it was not illegal to shoot the animal it doesn't automatically equate to the preserve doesn't own it.

I have never heard so many people puke crap on a subject in a long time. Opinions are like a** holes. Everyone has one and some stink more that others. The preserve bought the deer. the preserve raised the deer. The reserve did not know the deer would get out. The kid saw it on camera. I am pretty sure if the preserve was concerned about the deer it would have contacted neighbors about the whereabouts of the deer. The people on here sitting on their high horse about so called cage deer are probably the first ones that have shot ear tagged deer and told the taxidermist to patch up the hole. And now it hangs in the den and they brag about how hard a hunt it was. Oh and I am on the ranchers side on this. Do I get a last warning?

First off, I wrote "you" concerning your post about the elk. I assumed from reading your post about them that it was your herd that escaped and was shot.

I would say the preserve "owns" it while it is on their property, same as a HF place in Texas technically "owns" the deer behind their fence, no matter what the law says.

I would think if you truly owned it, it would be illegal for someone else to legally shoot it. If the law considered it yours, then it would be theft

The elk actually belonged to Arthur Godfrey (from radio fame....Don and Rusty will remember him...rest of you may not).

So you seem to believe that the preserve owned it inside the fence .... but once it gets out the preserve no longer owns it ...and the rationale is that they do not own it anymore because it's not illegal to kill it.

My view is that the preserve owned it inside the preserve.... ethically they also own it once it escaped. But since it is so difficult for a hunter to determine if a deer they shoot is a native deer or a preserve deer that escaped....the law doesn't make it illegal to kill it.

One question for wisco, hillbilly, and nogales.....does it make you smile at least a little bit knowing that a high fence owner suffered a loss financially? Like "Heck yeah he deserves it"? If so, that sucks. I hope that isnt the case, if it isnt then you are entitled to you opinion. If you kinda get joy out of it, then, well, shame on you.

Otherwise, thanks for the entertainment today - made work go by quicker.

The kid should not have shot the deer, this buck was supposed to be shot by a "hunter" at the preserve who paid $1000's of dollars to shoot it. It was going to go on the wall with his other 74 mounts he paid, I mean "hunted" for....

[quote=txshntr
I already stated my opinion that I would have told the owner and let them come get the animal if they wanted it back. If not, I would have more than likely shot it. I have continued the argument, simply because I enjoy the different perspectives and thoughts behind it.

There are some that would have no sympathy for the HF owner, but don't know that they would go so far to say he deserved it...then again, I could be wrong

One question for wisco, hillbilly, and nogales.....does it make you smile at least a little bit knowing that a high fence owner suffered a loss financially? Like "Heck yeah he deserves it"? If so, that sucks. I hope that isnt the case, if it isnt then you are entitled to you opinion. If you kinda get joy out of it, then, well, shame on you.

Otherwise, thanks for the entertainment today - made work go by quicker.

Haha everybody pays to hunt, it isn't free anywhere unless you know a secret I dont.

We should email the guy who owned the ranch that the deer came off of and tell him about this thread and see if we can get his take. It would be hillarious if he said "You know what, good for the kid - he called and I told him to go ahead and shoot it and thanks for calling"

One question for wisco, hillbilly, and nogales.....does it make you smile at least a little bit knowing that a high fence owner suffered a loss financially? Like "Heck yeah he deserves it"? If so, that sucks. I hope that isnt the case, if it isnt then you are entitled to you opinion. If you kinda get joy out of it, then, well, shame on you.

Otherwise, thanks for the entertainment today - made work go by quicker.

For sure, that would be interesting

I do pay a huge sum ($65 for a licence) to hunt in my back yard which also happens to be the Brazos River, I guess I know a secret you don't.....

Now see there, you contradicted yourself because you did pay to hunt.

It is obvious to the sane that no one owns the deer. But, when you've spent the money on the land, the fence, and purchased the animals.... You actually do lose something when someone takes a deer that escaped your legal fence.

The folks dancing around the blatant truth here are entertaining and disgusting.

I take no satisfaction at all. However, at the same time, I certainly don't feel sorry for him. Fact is I wish no ill will on anyone as long as they're legal. High fence is not my cup 'o tea, but to each his own.

-Legal to shoot - yes
-If you know it was an escapee from a neighbor - you pass and contact the neighbor & figure out a solution

I was raised old school

About 10 pages ago I made a similar statement and lamented the fact that so many here in the hunting community (and our society) feel the opposite.

Exactly. You don't feel sorry for the old lady who dropped the hundred dollar bill. It's her fault for letting it fall out of her purse by gawd! Finders keepers! "You don't take satisfaction in their loss, but you'd be happy to help them lose it". And are happy for anyone else who helps them lose it. Legally of course...

What lady? Thought we were talking about a deer. Your analogies suck. But that's been pointed out already. Of course I would feel sorry for someone losing something they owned. I don't however feel sorry for someone who claims to have lost something they never owned in the first place and in reality actually belongs to the citizens of the state.

Section 1.011:


Property Of The State


(a) All wild animals, fur-bearing animals, wild birds, and wild fowl inside the borders of this state are the property of the people of this state.


TP&W CODE

The crying continues.....

The native/non native argument doesn't hold up. There are elk native to Texas and yet I can go to an exotic ranch and shoot an elk this weekend.

I think high fence hunting should be illegal.

That should be worth another ten or twelve pages at least.

I think high fence hunting should be illegal.

I think high fence hunting should be illegal.

I think high fence hunting should be illegal.

I didn't read all the posts. I would be too ashamed to shoot a deer with a tag in its ear, or any deer in a high fence. I would have figured out a way to trap that deer and collect reward/sell it. I would rather have cash than kill a pen raised deer any day of the week.

And if I'm not mistaken aren't there insurance policies kept on these animals in these type of places?

I didn't read all the posts. I would be too ashamed to shoot a deer with a tag in its ear, or any deer in a high fence. I would have figured out a way to trap that deer and collect reward/sell it. I would rather have cash than kill a pen raised deer any day of the week.

I thought the same thing about gay marriage and legal pot. Things can change.

Yes you can, thats what I said earlier....haha the dude probably has a policy and doesnt even care that it ran off - just one less hunt he has to sell.

Originally Posted By: HillbillyDeluxe

[quote=therancher] No, I never said they belong to the landowner.

Kinda hard to lose something that does not belong to you in the first place, but yet you are attacking the morals of everyone that says they would LEGALLY shoot the deer. In reality it obiously was a risk that the rancher/buisiness man was willing to take. It may sting a little, but he has no one to blame for his loss but himself.

Guys, I am confused.

I realize in Texas that once a deer that is in a pen and has an ear tag gets out...it's the property of the state. That's the law as written in Texas. Got that. Forget about the whole high fence and low fence debate....that's another thread. But what is the logic that supports the statement "Kinda hard to lose something that does not belong to you in the first place." The Preserve owner bought a stocker buck...paid for it..got a bill of sale....didn't he own it? He clearly owned it when it was inside the Preserve...because he sold hunts for these deer. I understand that once it escapes there are a bunch of other laws that come into play and in Ohio (where this took place) it's legal to shoot a deer (with an ear tag) that has escaped from a Preserve. But I am missing the logic behind the statement "does not belong to you in the first place" which implies the Preserve owner never owned it. Note that we are not talking about a Texas ranch that the owner high fences and the enclosure has native deer...those deer still belong to the state.

In regards to the state of Texas... hi fence, low fence, no fence, does'nt matter. The State of Texas owns the deer not the outfitter.
Sec. 1.013. FENCES. This code does not prohibit or restrict the owner or occupant of land from constructing or maintaining a fence of any height on the land owned or occupied, and an owner or occupant who constructs such a fence is not liable for the restriction of the movement of wild animals by the fence. The existence of a fence does not affect the status of “wild” animals as property of the people of this state.

In regards to the state of Texas... hi fence, low fence, no fence, does'nt matter. The State of Texas owns the deer not the outfitter.
Sec. 1.013. FENCES. This code does not prohibit or restrict the owner or occupant of land from constructing or maintaining a fence of any height on the land owned or occupied, and an owner or occupant who constructs such a fence is not liable for the restriction of the movement of wild animals by the fence. The existence of a fence does not affect the status of “wild” animals as property of the people of this state.

In regards to the state of Texas... hi fence, low fence, no fence, does'nt matter. The State of Texas owns the deer not the outfitter.
Sec. 1.013. FENCES. This code does not prohibit or restrict the owner or occupant of land from constructing or maintaining a fence of any height on the land owned or occupied, and an owner or occupant who constructs such a fence is not liable for the restriction of the movement of wild animals by the fence. The existence of a fence does not affect the status of “wild” animals as property of the people of this state.

Tony everyone knows that the deer bought and paid for behind the high fence is in fact the person's who bought and paid for the deer. Their semantics ballet is to justify (only in their minds), their petty jealousy and/or resentment.

Everyone knows that once control is lost, ie when the old lady drops the $100 bill, that it becomes legal to pocket it.

Everyone knows that it's morally bankrupt to do that. And most wouldn't when it is an old lady dropping a $100 bill.

BUT, when it is someone who sweated blood to build a hunting operation, it somehow becomes ok to not only kill that asset he/she sweated blood to purchase, but to celebrate his/her loss.

Thats what entitlement mentality does to folks.

Our society now teaches us that everyone deserves a trophy. And NO ONE deserves to have more than someone else.

Oh.... I'm going to tell ! They are still "Wild". No way that would mean some on this forum are wrong about that 2 square mile pen, cage, HF container, prison. whatever you call it being only tame animals. Therefore they can't be wild so out goes that clause. Does it say anything about corn trained or crop baited.

I have my own opinions of high fence operations, but that one statement, IMHO, is the gist of the issue. And I pity the person who doesn't get it.

Interesting debate. Question to ranchervwhat should the kid have done. How is Stillwater supposed to get the deer back. You.gave the analogy of a old lady and a 100 dollar bill. I can pick up the hundred dollar bill.and return it to the owner. Cant pick up the deer. What about the other deer that escaped?? Everyone supposed to quit hunting while Stillwater tries to dart deer in the wild? My answer to this is simple if Stillwater made no effort to communicate to the public abouy somehow getting their deer back, or even offered a reward for information. The buck is considered lost by the Haf owner.

Interesting debate. Question to ranchervwhat should the kid have done. How is Stillwater supposed to get the deer back. You.gave the analogy of a old lady and a 100 dollar bill. I can pick up the hundred dollar bill.and return it to the owner. Cant pick up the deer. What about the other deer that escaped?? Everyone supposed to quit hunting while Stillwater tries to dart deer in the wild? My answer to this is simple if Stillwater made no effort to communicate to the public abouy somehow getting their deer back, or even offered a reward for information. The buck is considered lost by the Haf owner.

Rusty, That is a surprise to me ...and a little scary as well. So do they also own your cattle and livestock or does this just apply to deer and other Texas native species?

Just native species. They should change the law and just declare all wildlife livestock since it is managed as livestock anyway.

Wow...40 pages and still going.

A friend of mine lost seven Axis bucks out of his place along with a few other animals when a tree blew down onto the fence. It was an expensive incident. He bought the animals at auction so he had money out of pocket. Someone else gets to hunt those animals now. It sucks but it is the law. Unfortunately, as I have maintained from my first post on this, it's not a legality question. It's morality question. Or maybe just an ethical question. And that has to be answered from within each persons gut. Truth is though I prefer to associate myself with those whose standards are a little different in situations such as this than many of you. Then again I gave back the extra $20 bill the kid gave me when I got cash back the other day at Wally World. I may not be the brightest bulb in the box.

If any of my neighbors deer jump the high fence they will be shot on site. Can't have those 300" deer breeding with our natives...On another note, those deer just stare at me on the other side of the fence, don't spook easily or at all. Our native deer are much more spooky. I think that speaks volumes about whether or not they are truly wild.

If any of my neighbors deer jump the high fence they will be shot on site. Can't have those 300" deer breeding with our natives...On another note, those deer just stare at me on the other side of the fence, don't spook easily or at all. Our native deer are much more spooky. I think that speaks volumes about whether or not they are truly wild.

Then our LF deer aren't wild, they stand and watch us fill feeders. My wife's grandpa actually hand fed the LF deer, and that is not an uncommon situation.
And from a HF looking out, the LF deer also aren't spooked very easy. They seem to know that you are not a threat.
And the truth be known, we have less problems hunting out on the LF property, when we see a shooter on camera, we show up and shoot him. If we want a doe, just go hit the feeder and wait the grueling 2-3 minutes. It's fun to go play "LF purist hunter" from a deer blind.

Feeding them makes them tame.

Can someone please address the rational behind hating high fence and being just fine with climbing up in a blind where they deer can't see you, and waiting for them to come to a feeder that is timed....seriously, I want to here how you justify one and not the other. Both are legal? And like I've said, bring a none hunter from another state out to a ranch with high fence and feeders - see which one they laugh at first, the fence or Feeders. Nobody has answered that because it's inconvenient. Seriously though, I want to hear the thought proccess.

I still haven't had anyone answer this....

I still haven't had anyone answer this....

I still haven't had anyone answer this....

Way to stick it to the man!

I will make an attempt. I have killed over 80 whitetails and the only one I have ever killed under a feeder was my first deer when I was twelve years old. Every whitetail I have killed has been free range and I've only killed 4 out of a stand. All the rest were either on foot, sitting at the base of a tree, or on the side of a hill. This all required a lot of skill that I taught myself by being in the woods countless hours. The difference between a high fence and low/no fence is that a high fence ranch owner could release me and a friend in a 1000 acre fence and in a week we could eradicate the whole herd if he wanted us to but you could release us on a 1000 acre free range deer lease and tell me to kill every deer we see and we would be lucky to kill a handful. The simple fact is a deer has four legs and will run completely out of sight and beyond that 1000 acres to save its skin. A high fence deer can't/won't do this. I killed a free range 168" this year and took it to the taxidermist along with a jawbone and with the deer only being 5 years old, my taxidermist hinted around that it could've been out of a high fence. I take this very personally and will no longer use this taxidermist. The high fence ranch business has completely ruined the reputation of the North American Whitetail. If you haven't noticed, every time someone kills a big deer now, somebody will say "that came out of a highfence ranch." That hits us deep.

My wife takes an issue with high fence (she's read the thread) because we're trying to teach our son the same methods of hunting and it's hard for him to understand why he should be just as proud of his hard-earned 8pt when he sees his schoolmate with a 190 class deer that daddy paid big bucks for. Rationalize that to an 8 year old. He spent many evenings after school stalking and set up in pine straw waiting for the buck that made a good rub. He sacrificed a lot, only to be one-upped by a canned one-morning hunt of a buck under a timed feeder (we saw the hunt on a local hunting show and the kiddo bragged about the high price tag his daddy paid.) I can tell him that his hunt means more until I'm blue in the face, but deep down, I know he feels shorted. It's not about entitlement for me, it's about respecting the animal and earning the kill. This is why we dislike high fence.

I have no dog in this fight, but....
One method limits an animals free movement by creating an artificial barrier.
The second method provides an attractant and attempts to modify an animal's free movement.

The animal has a choice in one of the methods, whereas not so much in the other.

I will make an attempt. I have killed over 80 whitetails and the only one I have ever killed under a feeder was my first deer when I was twelve years old. Every whitetail I have killed has been free range and I've only killed 4 out of a stand. All the rest were either on foot, sitting at the base of a tree, or on the side of a hill. This all required a lot of skill that I taught myself by being in the woods countless hours. The difference between a high fence and low/no fence is that a high fence ranch owner could release me and a friend in a 1000 acre fence and in a week we could eradicate the whole herd if he wanted us to but you could release us on a 1000 acre free range deer lease and tell me to kill every deer we see and we would be lucky to kill a handful. The simple fact is a deer has four legs and will run completely out of sight and beyond that 1000 acres to save its skin. A high fence deer can't/won't do this. I killed a free range 168" this year and took it to the taxidermist along with a jawbone and with the deer only being 5 years old, my taxidermist hinted around that it could've been out of a high fence. I take this very personally and will no longer use this taxidermist. The high fence ranch business has completely ruined the reputation of the North American Whitetail. If you haven't noticed, every time someone kills a big deer now, somebody will say "that came out of a highfence ranch." That hits us deep.

My wife takes an issue with high fence (she's read the thread) because we're trying to teach our son the same methods of hunting and it's hard for him to understand why he should be just as proud of his hard-earned 8pt when he sees his schoolmate with a 190 class deer that daddy paid big bucks for. Rationalize that to an 8 year old. He spent many evenings after school stalking and set up in pine straw waiting for the buck that made a good rub. He sacrificed a lot, only to be one-upped by a canned one-morning hunt of a buck under a timed feeder (we saw the hunt on a local hunting show and the kiddo bragged about the high price tag his daddy paid.) I can tell him that his hunt means more until I'm blue in the face, but deep down, I know he feels shorted. It's not about entitlement for me, it's about respecting the animal and earning the kill. This is why we dislike high fence.

I will make an attempt. I have killed over 80 whitetails and the only one I have ever killed under a feeder was my first deer when I was twelve years old. Every whitetail I have killed has been free range and I've only killed 4 out of a stand. All the rest were either on foot, sitting at the base of a tree, or on the side of a hill. This all required a lot of skill that I taught myself by being in the woods countless hours. The difference between a high fence and low/no fence is that a high fence ranch owner could release me and a friend in a 1000 acre fence and in a week we could eradicate the whole herd if he wanted us to but you could release us on a 1000 acre free range deer lease and tell me to kill every deer we see and we would be lucky to kill a handful. The simple fact is a deer has four legs and will run completely out of sight and beyond that 1000 acres to save its skin. A high fence deer can't/won't do this. I killed a free range 168" this year and took it to the taxidermist along with a jawbone and with the deer only being 5 years old, my taxidermist hinted around that it could've been out of a high fence. I take this very personally and will no longer use this taxidermist. The high fence ranch business has completely ruined the reputation of the North American Whitetail. If you haven't noticed, every time someone kills a big deer now, somebody will say "that came out of a highfence ranch." That hits us deep.

My wife takes an issue with high fence (she's read the thread) because we're trying to teach our son the same methods of hunting and it's hard for him to understand why he should be just as proud of his hard-earned 8pt when he sees his schoolmate with a 190 class deer that daddy paid big bucks for. Rationalize that to an 8 year old. He spent many evenings after school stalking and set up in pine straw waiting for the buck that made a good rub. He sacrificed a lot, only to be one-upped by a canned one-morning hunt of a buck under a timed feeder (we saw the hunt on a local hunting show and the kiddo bragged about the high price tag his daddy paid.) I can tell him that his hunt means more until I'm blue in the face, but deep down, I know he feels shorted. It's not about entitlement for me, it's about respecting the animal and earning the kill. This is why we dislike high fence.

I will make an attempt. I have killed over 80 whitetails and the only one I have ever killed under a feeder was my first deer when I was twelve years old. Every whitetail I have killed has been free range and I've only killed 4 out of a stand. All the rest were either on foot, sitting at the base of a tree, or on the side of a hill. This all required a lot of skill that I taught myself by being in the woods countless hours. The difference between a high fence and low/no fence is that a high fence ranch owner could release me and a friend in a 1000 acre fence and in a week we could eradicate the whole herd if he wanted us to but you could release us on a 1000 acre free range deer lease and tell me to kill every deer we see and we would be lucky to kill a handful. The simple fact is a deer has four legs and will run completely out of sight and beyond that 1000 acres to save its skin. A high fence deer can't/won't do this. I killed a free range 168" this year and took it to the taxidermist along with a jawbone and with the deer only being 5 years old, my taxidermist hinted around that it could've been out of a high fence. I take this very personally and will no longer use this taxidermist. The high fence ranch business has completely ruined the reputation of the North American Whitetail. If you haven't noticed, every time someone kills a big deer now, somebody will say "that came out of a highfence ranch." That hits us deep.

My wife takes an issue with high fence (she's read the thread) because we're trying to teach our son the same methods of hunting and it's hard for him to understand why he should be just as proud of his hard-earned 8pt when he sees his schoolmate with a 190 class deer that daddy paid big bucks for. Rationalize that to an 8 year old. He spent many evenings after school stalking and set up in pine straw waiting for the buck that made a good rub. He sacrificed a lot, only to be one-upped by a canned one-morning hunt of a buck under a timed feeder (we saw the hunt on a local hunting show and the kiddo bragged about the high price tag his daddy paid.) I can tell him that his hunt means more until I'm blue in the face, but deep down, I know he feels shorted. It's not about entitlement for me, it's about respecting the animal and earning the kill. This is why we dislike high fence.

DO you know how many acres a whitetail covers typically in its life? Here is a quote: Moreover, every project I looked at that estimated a buck’s core area (where he spends at least 50 percent of his time) showed that mature bucks really only use 5 to 10 percent of their home range for core area activities; and, most of those core areas were between 60 and 85 acres.

So high fence or not, typically deer dont go to far. Thats why you see the same deer time and time again at the same feeders - high fence, low fence, no fence. We have had both high fence and low fence ranches, same thing at both - deer we see so much you even give them names.

This thread is like a turd that won't flush.

It's a lot more entertaining than that!!