HF in Texas Vs. HF in Africa

HF's are always getting bashed in Texas. Do the same people that do that bashing think the ones in Africa are OK?

Some do some don't

IMO I want to go to Africa to shoot African species not hunt a ranch where a fallow or mouflon may walk out

So what is the difference? I am sure they have none native game in Africa too. You can take Africa game here. Are the same animals that you take there in a HF different?

So African animals no matter the country of origin as long as they are somewhere in Africa? I mean you can kill a lot of species in South Africa that are African but not native to South Africa.

I will kill anything in any country from any country as long as I feel it is a quality hunt, high fence, low fence, no fence whatever.

I was referring to ranches in Africa that import fallow and mouflon

Well, IMHO, I've noticed these differences from my trip to Africa:

Ranches are much larger. The "small ones" were 4000-10000 acres. The large ones were 200,000+ acres.

The fences usually were in pretty poor shape comparatively speaking. This was almost universal everywhere we went. Patches, holes, rusting out, and sometimes patchwork quilts. Some of the fences looked ancient.

Very common to hear landowners talk about animals getting out or getting in.

Larger ranches always seem to have sections down here and there - so many miles of fencing it was like there was always breaks here or there. Ranchers seemed pretty lax about it unless there was dangerous game involved.

Almost all fenced properties were treated as "preserves", not breeding facilities. Manipulating genetics is virtually unheard of - not at all like HF whitetail operations in Texas. The animals are left natural or as close to natural as possible. The fences were more like keeping others safe from animals in the road, etc. rather than preserving high dollar livestock. Ranchers more interested in their cattle than their Kudu walking around.

every one knows white men cant jump dey even made a movie bouts it

why u thnk Santa has all dem raindeers

Humbert said it well. They don't high fence to manipulate genetics. And more often than not they are high fencing to protect crops.

HF in Texas Vs. HF in Africa

Texas has large HF Ranches.

Texas has HF ranches that do not practice genetic manipulation.

In Texas no matter the size of the HF ranch gets " labeled Canned".

Maybe what separates Texas from Africa is we just have to many "anti-hunters" which cause division even among hunter's.

Yup,
My brother was planning a trip to Africa thinking it was going to be a wild and open place. Come to find out it was just a HF ranch that would bring in anything that you wanted to hunt. After speaking with the guide some he got the impression that the HF was to keep poachers out.

I think the difference is size. I have hunted high fenced farms in RSA that were 60k plus acres. The fact it is fenced never comes into play on a place that size. If the ranches in Texas were that large I don't think there would be any difference in the way hunters think about them.

Your brother is a perfect example of "My mind is made up", or he talked with the lowest, cheapest outfitter he could find.

I see. So on 50,000 acres the hf would somehow "come into play". Man why didn't somebody just explain that decades ago!!

Cost may also come into play. You shoot a Kudu, Impala, Blesbok, Waterbuck, Gemsbuck in Texas you will spend 35K +-. That will buy a great hunt in Africa.

I have hunted HF in both areas. Just check references and you can find first class outfits in both Texas & Africa.

Your right post a picture of a hunter with their Kudu and no one can tell if it was taken on HF, LF or NF.

I have hunted both high fence and low fence in Africa as well as high fence and low fence in Texas. IMO, like mentioned before, the fences in Africa are not kept up well and it is common to have animals get in and out. That is not near the case in Texas. In Africa the HF places are gigantic and so are the LF places. I shot plenty of animals in Africa behind both HF and LF and honestly couldn't have told the difference if I hadn't had to go through the tall gate when I arrived there. We could go a couple days without seeing a fence.

I think where Africa and Africa huntings mystique left me was when I saw pictures of game animals being hoisted up and gutted using a new looking tractor with a front end loader. What happened to the days when PH's took the clients out using gun bearers and others packing all the stuff you needed to be out in the bush for a week or more? Now you seem to go out in a new Toyota shoot some thing then go get the loader to bring it in. Now how is that different than here except for the Toyota?

There are many shades of High Fence. I say no to it all, but have thought twice about a Red Stag hunt in New Zealand or safari in South Africa. The more I looked into it you can still find similar hunts low fence. Argentina good place for low fence Red Stag and places like Zimbabwe for low fence safari. Only thing that would knock a South African safari down in my book is if I found out some expensive predator game like Lions were more closely managed only put out for the hunter. When you just say no to High Fence then there are no shades to think about.

I know for one you don't get to bring the meat home. I know it feeds the villagers and workers, and you get to taste some of the different game in the meals you cook while your there. But that's about the same no matter what other country you hunt in outside the 48. The size is a huge difference and I would love to see that country at least once in my life, but no time for it anytime soon.

That ended in the 1940's. And the Safaris were at least a month. You can still book 21 day safaris, if you've got the cash. I can't afford it and I'm not enough of a "people person" to spend 21 days with the same PH. I don't know how they do it.

Plenty of places left in Africa that have no fences and it's still a lot of work to get a downed animal back to the truck and back to camp.

South Africa is mostly fenced ranches, but the acreages are huge, like far west Texas and then some. Other countries, Namibia, Zimbabwe, Zambia, Tanzania have varying ratios of fenced properties to government concessions. I believe Tanzania is about as close as you're going to get to the really old "safari" style, but you are going to pay through the nose for it. The Tanzania laws are always changing and the trophy fees are always increasing by large percentages.

A lot of guys just check out South Africa and assume all of southern Africa is the same. Not so. South Africa is a great place for a first-time, economical plains game hunt.

And if you really want to get the feel of the really old days of "safari", there are a couple of places where you can camp in one country and walk into a place like, oh, I don't know, Angola, kill something and evade the authorities getting it back to camp. That's probably closer to the way it really was in the old days! West Africa still has some countries that will keep it plenty interesting for you!

You clearly do not know my brother. And clearly make assumptions "because your mind is made up."

1) My brother was planning a trip to Africa thinking it was going to be a wild and open place Have you seen the size of the African Continent. Why make a solid conclusion based on one "guide" all Africa is a HF put and take.
2) Come to find out it was just a HF ranch that would bring in anything that you wanted to hunt. I'll assume your brother was only looking at South Africa. Now I've hunted South Africa 3 times and the only time I saw the fence was at the gate. Maybe your brother talked with a small outfit. The DeBeer's ranch in South Africa is 250,000 acres under one fence. So don't say all HF Africa is "we will bring in what ever you want to shoot".
3) After speaking with the "guide" some he got the impression that the HF was to keep poacher out. So you set the "guide" straight.

No Sir, I clearly do not know your brother but your story seems to lend a clear picture. If you are only looking for bad, you will only see bad.

If you would like to offer more to the story like how many professional hunters your brother talked with. What size ranches he was looking at. Then we can have a discussion. But to give the impression in one sentence ..."Come to find out it was just a HF ranch that would bring in anything that you wanted to hunt" is not doing your homework. Or Sir, you draw conclusion quick.

oh look a new way to start a high fence debate. yay!

^^^^ We get tired of working in a 12 x12 "Canned" office ^^^^

Don't get me wrong I hunt high fenced properties Texas and enjoy it. However, It's just not the same hunting a 2000 acre high fenced ranch as it is hunting a 100 square mile high fenced ranch. Regardless of the continent it is on. There are generally much larger ranches high fenced in Africa. The size of the ranch IMHO is what causes the perception difference on high fences between the two continents.

You're last sentence perfectly diagnoses the issue. Many only care about the picture-fewer and fewer actually care about the hunt anymore.

Ive hunted SA 3 times, all under high fence. I think the smallest acreage I was on is 4,000. I know to some any acreage under HF is a no-go, but 4000 acres is a lot of country. Most concessions are tens of thousands of acres. The high fence helps keep put predators,poachers,an obviously is keeping the animals in. Poachers are a HUGE problem, and in Tanzania we actually came across some poachers. It was a pretty scary event. Our side won though

A high fence is not going to do much to deter poachers, but its better than nothing.

Ive also hunted Tanzania which was LF. For the most part I saw basically the same amount and type of animals, except for the Leopard and Lesser Kudu I killed. Both countries are an amazing experience, but SA is much much cheaper. No one should ever let the fact that there is a fence surrounding a game farm keep them from going to Africa. High Fence or not, Africa is an amazing place, and an amazing experience.

I don't have much of an opinion except to say that, for the most part, comparing the two is apples and oranges. Africa has a unique set of issues with which it must deal. And the concessions are generally very large (this is changing fast in SA however-which is fast becoming to Africa what Texas is to the U.S.).

It's not really apples to oranges. The fences started here to keep ppl out, then mutated into a management tool to cover up years and years of mismanagement. Same concept applies over there regardless of which side of the argument a person is on.

Africa makes the purest think that a HF is alright to hunt in. That way they can still bash the HF's in Texas.

I grew up caring only about the pursuit, the adventure, the quest. I've spent 15 days and never pulled the trigger on a Brown Bear "But I've hunted Brown Bear"... I've spent 14 days hunting Bighorn without pulling the trigger, "But I've hunted Bighorn".....

So how can I hunt a HF. I guess because it better provide the pursuit, the adventure, the quest, or I'm out of there.

Yes there is good and yes there is bad in everything you pursue. I will not accept the bad.

Then again maybe I'm the only person who's brain does not focus only on the height of a fence but more on the quality of pursuit. (and yes it can happen). Last year I spent 14 days on one large HF ranch chasing one mouflon ram and never connected.

Then again sometimes on opening day in New Mexico that 17" pronghorn antelope just walks right up to you and bam it's over. Or the 10 days you spend Elk hunting in Colorado only to find no elk but a haven for monster mule deer... or the time...

All God's country is beautiful no matter where I stand. HF.LF,NF.

Then maybe I'm just out of touch because I've only hunted because the voices in my head tell me to.

Stay tuned next year my handle will be cathunter... no deerhunter.... no exotichunter.....no bearhunter...

I too only enjoy the hunt. I guided for many years. Both HF and LF. To be truthful many times the HF was the harder of the hunts. I hunted for many years in both NM and CO. That was back when you bought the license over the counter. Most of the time I came home empty handed. Even so it was a good hunt. I shot one MD in probably 20 years of hunting that I thought was worth mounting. I never took an elk that I thought that of even though I saw and hunted some. IMO most that bash HF have maybe hunted in places like TT or the place in Mason. Most excluding the WT ear tag places are a real hunt. Hunting back when I guided was fun for a few years then I got burned out. I think it was not the hunting that did it but some of the hunters I guided. Most were good to be around but when you guide a few in a row that are PITA's it wears you down. Now I don't really guide. I put the hunters in a stand and let them take what they want. If they want to know what a typical deer here will score I don't let them come. I charge so much a point and unless you are a complete idiot you know when you pull the trigger what it is going to cost. Now if Africa was like CO. and they let you hunt on your own instead of baby sitting you it might be a good hunt. Some of the western States hunting MD or Elk or like NP did hunting Sheep is still a real hunt.

There are a few DIY hunts in western Africa. When do you want to go?

damn... now some people are going half way around the world to complain about high fence....

There's stuff over there that scares the mess out of penicillin, I ain't going, LF, NF, HF... I've watched Outbreak & I'm not going to be the carrier monkey.

"Don't worry Bwana, my tongue is only blue because I've been eating berries." (Cough, cough.....)

Current flu deaths in US
At least 601 people in the U.S. died of influenza or pneumonia during the 52nd week of the year, down from 837 the previous week, according to data collected by the CDC’s 122 Cities Mortality Reporting System. The 601 deaths accounted for 6.8% of the 8,893 total deaths in the last full week of the year, just missing the 6.9% threshold to qualify as an epidemic.

How many Ebola deaths in US from "carriers"?

Perspective.

Seriously, I would love to go to Africa one day. Would even love to take my my family. Sounds like fun-mostly because of the country and abundance of game. From what I have seen, it looks like most of the challenge (on non-dangerous game at least) is making a clean shots. Just a different type of hunting than in North America.

Heck, would probably enjoy a photo safari about as much as hunting.....

You either do all the work yourself by planting plots, supplemental feeding, mineral sites, scouting countless hours and finally putting the stand in the right spot at the right time to harvest that "buck of a lifetime"..........or you can pay someone else to do all the work but pull the trigger for you....I don't see where the height (if any) of the fence matters in the latter situation.

HF vs LF... Africa vs Texas... as usual with me it all boils down to what you like. Much like Don, I have spent many years (25+) hunting the Rockies in most western states except Nevada and Washington. As a much younger man I truly loved the physical challange of the hunt and considered the tougher the terrain the better the hunt. Many many times I came home with nothing but a smile and a contented feeling of accomplishment in a hunt done right!

Well I've got news for you guys. If your lucky most of you are going to get old some day and everything that you think you know about hunting and life may change. Maybe one day in your mid forties you will go to bed feeling as strong and confident as you always have and wake up the next day and just know something's not right but you go to work like always and spend the next few months telling yourself that you can work thru the pain. And then just maybe a few months later you finally go to the Dr. and he tells you what you had feared but didn't want to face. Then maybe you go to MD Anderson weighing 288lbs and 13 months later by the grace of God and some amazing doctors and nurses you get to drag your hull of a body home at 143lbs and start trying to recover. Maybe after returning to work you get the urge to shoot your rifle again and find out that extensive radiadion to your head will really compromise your already not so great eyesight. Maybe the months of chemo make walking difficult so then maybe your at a cross road as a hunter. Do you quit and walk away from something that you have loved all your life or do you try and find a way to stay in the game.

I thought about what I wanted and decided that I would really like to go to the Dark Continent for a safari. Someday I still hope to but for now I normally hunt about 2 times a year with my wife or some of my old hunting buddies. I normally hunt HF exotic ranches here in Texas. Does this make me less of a hunter? I know it's my age but my priorities have changed. For me getting to meet the landowner and the folks that work on the ranch is a huge deal. I used to get aggravated if I saw another hunter that wasn't in my group, now I just smile and look forward to making a new friend. I've had some fantastic hunts on HF ranches here in Texas that were every bit as challenging as some of the public land hunting I've done. No body can ever tell me any different.
Folks I'm sorry for the long note I'm not to good at expressing myself but I hope you get this from my message. Before you start saying I'll never do this or I'm never going to hunt there just stop for a minute, take a deep breath and realize things in your life can change. God Blessed Texas and God has blessed this old Texan. Roland Baker

Nothing else needs to be said. God Bless you Sir.

Sheephunter,
I love a good debate and I had a great rebuttal typed out for our disagreement, but then it hit me that I really don't need to do that, it could go on forever.
I think you and I would agree on most hunting subjects if we didn't let silly details confuse thing. We are clearly passionate about hunting. God speed.

Meh

maybe one day over a brew my treat.

How many in Africa? How many diseases that we have/had immunized out over here? Perspective.

Roland, glad you won the fight and your still amongst us enjoying the choices our country allows.

we know most South Africa hunts are HF. We know many take a lion on their South Africa hunt. do these lions roam in the HF 24/7/365 possibly eating other valued game?

Sometimes they out smart the hunters and live there longer then wanted, other times that don't make it long. But your own question awesers why the market is what it is and how they came to be " is what it is" for lions

Remember TH giraffe...26 hunters tried to kill it...

I too have hunted both HF in Texas (2,300 ac)and once in Africa. We hunted 2 farms one that was a little over 6,000 ac and one that was 9,400 ac. I will tell you I did not feel any of those hunts were canned, on the African trip we worked very hard to get the Kudu,and Eland "in the salt". Guys any brush country over 1000 ac is a pretty big place. The smallest place in Africa I hunted was close to10 square miles. Most of the animals range is a lot less than that. Did I see fences...yes! Did I think the hunt was "canned"...No. I hunted on open consession too--around 200,000 ac. Where did we hunt? Well we hunted different areas, for different stuff. We hunted waterbuck on about 2,000 ac...why? Because that's where they liked to hang out. I can tell you there are many positives about hunting a HF ranch. Most limiting factor most of us have is time. We cannot book a hunt for 20 days, we have at most half that time. We also want to have a good chance at success...that's what we pay for...right? The animals are there. That does not mean we will take it. I had a friend go 2 trips to take a good kudu " over 50". He hunted 4 really good HF places. I know the Kudu were there...but he was not successful. Could you have baited them...yes. But it would not have been near as "sporting". I think the focus should be more on baiting and less on the HF...just my opinion.

Ed

Why did the guy go to specific places looking for one over 50?

I have not hunted Africa, so I cannot comment based on personal experience. From what I read, many of the HFs in Africa are very large concessions, especially outside of South Africa. SA is becoming more and more a "game farm" destination (similar to much of Texas). So, personally, if I ever go I plan to focus on areas outside of SA and ask a lot of questions about the nature of the operation(s) I am considering. Certainly a huge concession fenced primarily to deal with poaching and other issues is much different than a 1000 acre "put and take" operation.

Africa is a complex and unique place. The evolution of sport hunting in Africa has been beset by a whole raft of issues (corrupt governments, rampant poaching, etc.) that do not apply here in America. And certainly don't apply to hunting whitetails in Texas-where population and availability is not an issue.

I don't know any more, have you seen all the threads this year with poachers on GC, GW note posts, holes in fences etc?

Yeah, but the issues in Africa are on a whole nother scale. Poaching is widespread and systemic in many areas over there.

50" is kind of the threshold of "respectable".

I understand that, just curious on the deciding factor on which places to hunt.

Most outfitters in Africa should be able to get you on a 50 kudu. Ive killed three, all over 50, and most everyone that I know thats been to Africa and hunted kudu has killed an over 50 kudu. Sometimes it will take several days to find a good enough bull (they aren't called the grey ghost for nothing) but you should be able to get one with just about any reputable outfitter.

You see those camels... Yes... You want to take one.... But there are men on those camels..... Yes there poachers, you want to take one.... No I don't want a camel and I'm not shooting one with a man on it..... I was not talking about the camel.... 3 poachers were killed.... because they were steeling the professional hunters business.... camels were loaded with hides, horns and tusk. Yes, it is different in Africa.

Cutting holes in fences, shooting through fences, sneaking on to private property with night vision equipment... close

Where is the line in the sand on "canned". To the anti's and some THF members it's any and all HF no matter the size it carries the label "Canned".

I eat canned salmon... but I have also fished a stream for salmon.

To me if you have it cornered it's canned. If it keeps escaping and it takes you a few days not canned.

True..50 is the kind of magic number for a nice kudu bull...

Yep, I have been on 5 Safaris,and I will tell anyone, my experience was not diminished by a high fence. Now would I want to take a Cape buffalo behind a high fence? I don't know, maybe, mine was not so I can't say. Do I mind shooting plains game on a open farm,absolutely not. Would I go back to South Africa and hunt on a HF game farm,yes!There is a lot of difference between breeding animals and animals on the open farm. I will say it again. I have more of a problem with baiting than HF. I can shoot damn near anything setting at a waterhole or feeding for a month. Now do I bait on my ranch? You damn right! It helps with success, and as I said in a early post, it helps with the amount of time, one has....hell if you ask me if you are against a HF, then you should be against baiting, Game cameras...

Ed

So, have you hunted on a 1,000 acre hf ranch in Texas. And if so, what was the difference between hunting that and your lf 150 acres?

I just like to hunt. HF, LF, NF. If someone else is buying I will travel to go kill something although as shotty as the world is I'm not big on going outside the good ole U.S of A. anymore. I just don't see where the where any place is better than here at home. Oh sure, you aren't going to get a Yukon moose here. Or a B.C. black bear here. But for me those aren't over seas excursions and don't have the same sense of concern. But I can kill a Kudu here. I can kill such a large variety of things here. I saw an ad for Nilgai cows for $750 a few minutes ago. If I can sell my boat I'm down with that one. Hope it's high fence though. That's a lot of money to spend not to get to get the meat.

I've hunted Africa 5 times, both HF and not in 3 different countries. You can have a great hunt on both if you do your homework.
I'll make some generalities here:
Any HF under @7500 acres will usually be a put and take proposition (no wild breeding of the huntable species). Much like a stocked fishing lake. You know they are they as they are put in there but you still have to catch them.
Over 7500 may have natural reproduction. The bigger ones (10,000 and up will usually have natural reproduction of some type).
South Africa has the most HF operations. 1,000s of them.
Even at 5,000 acres, if you are on the ground walking, it can be a good hunt.
HF is used to keep the "expensively bought" animals on the owners ranch. He owns them, he doesn't want them to go next door.
South Africa has a large "cow/calf operation" to raise animals for the hunters market.

Namibia, the country right next door, is mostly no or low fence with mostly wild natural reproduction on huge farms (that's what they call ranches there).
Both countries have great hunting. Many times better than anything over here if you do your homework.
Namibia takes a day extra each way from the USA to hunt.
For those who have a time constraint and want a great 1st African safari, South Africa is the place to go, period. You can find what you want with a little effort. If you have more time go to Namibia. It's great also.
If you have to have wide open spaces devoid of fences then I suggest Namibia for the most part. You can find wide open in SA but you have to look for it.
I've hunted twice in Namibia (all low or no fence) on places from 75,000 acres to 150,000 acres.
I've also hunted SA on 5,000 acres HF (as small as I would want to go).
It all depends on what the hunter wants and can afford. Small HF with 4 good animals can be done in a week in camp for under 5 or $6,000 in SA. Including everything except airfare and taxidermy.
As was said, the HF doesn't come into play for the most part.
If you have any questions, ask away. I'll try to help.

I've hunted in Africa twice and I've been on 2 high fence hunts here in Texas. Comparing the two, I find a lot more things that are similar to them, then what I can think of that is different. I went to those places looking for specific animals and I enjoyed the entire experience tremendously. For me, it's all about enjoying myself. I can't say that for some of the guided hunts I've been on in the Rocky Mountains states. Comparing some of those operations to a high fence hunt is night and day. On every high fence hunt, I was treated like family. On the bad guided hunts, I felt like I was intruding or not wanted. Guides who wanted to get back to camp early, didn't want to get off the horses and actually walk, poor quality food, or going out in a group with the hope of being used to push animals to some old timer who had been hunting with the outfitter for the last ten years. I took my wife to South Africa this past August for her first out of state out of the country hunting trip. She shot two springbucks. A common outside a fence, and a black inside a fence. The common was an easy hunt. It pretty much walked right past us as we sat under some trees and she make an easy 50 yard shot. The black where very nervous and it was an all day hunt on foot trying to get ahead of them for a shot on a 3,000 acre ranch. I can tell you that the HF springbuck is the one she appreciated the most!!!

Our hunt was based out of the outfitters home on a 4,000 acre high fenced property. I shot a black wildebeest there. That's all we shot on his place. We hunted duiker on another HF property that also had buffalo and rhino on it. We saw a few of them, but they would go through the fence into Oranje River bottoms faster then I could get a shot off. That was the coldest morning there. I couldn't feel my fingers and was nervous I wouldn't be able to make the shot if we ever found one standing still for more then five seconds. My eland was on a 10,000 acre HF property. We had made arrangements to hunt there previously, so that morning, the manager of the ranch and a dozen of the locals who work there where up at first light scouting for a good eland bull. When we got there, they took us to the ridge where we could see where he was bedded down and then we spent a couple hours climbing and crawling around him to get into position. It was an exciting stalk that I thoroughly enjoyed. The other HF animal that I got was a red Lechwe that had gotten out of the fence and was wondering on the owners land outside the fence. He took a grand off the price of the animal if I would come shoot it before he went to a neighbors land. I hadn't booked a red Lechwe, and I didn't have the money, but my outfitter told me I could pay him for it after I got home and had it. The rest of my animals where shot on low fence sheep farms and cattle ranches in different areas. I shot nine different animals, and every one of them was in a different area, in different terrain. I don't know how anybody wouldn't enjoy an experience like that.

Eddie

That sounds great.

Sorry about your western hunt experiences. I have not had a bad one yet. Had one or two where the food was marginal, but every outfitter/guide has been knowledgeable, hard working, and committed to the hunt. They are all friends to this day.

Thanks for sharing your experience's with us. I hunted out west yearly for 26 years straight and can see your point on some of the outfitters out west. Most feel like they own the public land they are guiding on and can be real hard to get along with. That's about the only thing about hunting out west that I don't miss. Baker

I've been to Africa once, it was a low/no fence place in Southern Zimbabwe. I had access to 50,000 of the 500,000+ acres. I loved it and the people and experience was just as cool as the hunt. After 4 hip replacements I walk with a cane and my arthritis has the rest of my body a wreck. So do I quit hunting because I can't walk all over? No, I go out to enjoy my self. I've hunted twice with Donk and liked it a lot. He put me in a stand and I shot deer. Both are on my wall, trophies to me. Because I can't walk far, anything beyond the stand I'm in is future area to explore. I know my limitations and I just like a place that can accommodate me. Would it be great to trek all over, yes but I'm just happy with what I can do. If you want to hunt hf, lf, no fence I support you. Just get out and enjoy.

"If you want to hunt hf, lf, no fence I support you. Just get out and enjoy."

Perfect. Just remember, there are lots of people like our own NP who would outlaw HF hunting. Regardless of who it hurts.

When ever you want and can come hunt again you are always welcome. When you came before I always admired your drive to keep going. Hang in there and never give up. Donald

Glad you guys had a good time and have a good relationship.

But I thought the size of the fence made no difference in the hunting. So, tell me how it hurts this situation?

See, when you say whatever you can whenever you can, you catch yourself coming and going.

For the record, I would be fine with an exception for places that catered only to those with disabilities. Problem solved.

Nah NP. I'm not the one who wants to decide for others. You're the one back peddling. Who would decide who is disabled in your controlled world?

HF have many purposes. Yes a FEW make it easier for physically or time/resource limited hunters. The vast majority simply allow the owner to manage the wildlife resource more effectively.

Your avoidance of my previous question is typical of folks who form opinions based on perception, void of facts. Which would be fine if you had a live and let live principle in you. We all know you don't. Keep back peddling. It's entertaining.