6.5 Grendel vs 6.8 SPC

Simply put, which would you prefer and why? Per the Nosler Book, ballistics are similar. I have neither, but am thinking about it.

6.5 Grendel

I like to hit things far away, it's better at it.

300 yards and less, it's probably a toss-up.

I prefer the 6.8 SPC simply because that is what I have. I bought the 6.8 so I felt no need for a Grendel. Ballistics are similar like you said. If I bought a Grendel years ago, I would have no desire for a 6.8.

6.8 SPC has a slight advantage with short barrels. The 6.5 Grendel has a little better ballistics past 300 yards. For hunting, I don't think either is great for medium game much past 250 yards.

No animal will be able to tell the difference between the two. Neither kills them deader than the other.

Like they said inside 300 pretty much flip a coin, with some bullets the Grendel passes the 6.8 at about 250 yards. Barrel lengths they are basically equals with barrels 12 inchs or longer, under 12 inche barrel length go with the 6.8 or 300 BO. Just my opine though.

I have a lot more 6.5s than I do .277 so that made the choice easy for me.

Your 2 favorite bullets for the 260 will work well in the Grendel. 100 BT or Partition, 120gr BT, 125 Partition and 129gr AccubondLR all work very well in the Grendel with the 129 being my favorite at this time.

Can't go wrong either way but Grendel all day everyday for me.

Ive never shot or handled either but reading what I have read and looking at data I would be in the Grendel camp. I think my 19 month old daughter ill get a pink one in a few years

Go shoot one before you give one to your kid.

I gave one to mine and was underwhelmed.

I’m sticking to the .22-250 for my daughter

Which ballistics? internal, external, terminal, etc? Both rounds are very different. Internal ballistic the 6.8 will have slightly more velocity than the 6.5, due to case volume. But external ballistics wise, the 6.5 will hands down due to higher BC. Terminal depends on which bullet. For hunting sake, just pick the 6.8, after all it's a 270!

Seems like that external hands down only comes into play with distance? How far does it take for the bc to win?

In the Nosler book, they showed the 90 gr Solid Base at near 3000 FPS in the 6.8 SPC. That caught my eye.

I had the same choice years ago and I picked the grendel. Haven't looked back since. I now want one in a nbolt format. On that note, maybe it's some sort of indicator that 6.5 grendels are coming out in bolt action format while the 6.8spc never really made it out of the ar platform.

Probably because if you produced a 7.62x39 bolt action, it's just a different barrel. The 6.8 is a unique. Mossberg and Savage are starting to put out Valkyrie bolt actions so it wouldn't surprise me if they rolled out a 6.8 in the future.

Savage just recently added a 6.8 to their AR lineup.

If Ruger made an American Ranch in 6.8, it would probably sell like crazy.

I got a Mossberg MVP bolt gun in 224 Valkrie a few weeks ago. The first time out with it last week was great. 75 grain ELDM at 2990 fps and shot really well. I plan to take it with me to Rifles Only in South Texas for some training and shooting, along with my 308 or 6.5.

I have both because I like both. So save yourself a headache and get both, my .02!

I've got a couple 6.8s in the AR platform and really like them. Great round for medium game for an AR platform. If were going to focus on shots over 300 yds, I'd go with the Grendel but under I'll stay with the 6.8.

I guess you didn't get the memo that the 224 Valkyrie is a waste in a bolt action.

Look, I'm not trying to knock on the 6.8spc. honestly just sort of arguing/debating for the heck of it as I've made my decision already. i completely agree that within 300 yards, there is no perceivable difference. My younger brother is a absolutely surgical with his 6.8spc yhm rifle when it comes to the piggies. Also, I never hunt even out to that but I do shoot at paper a bunch beyond that.

I feel like you're making my point for me. First of all, there are not as many 7.62x39 bolt actions out there, believe me I looked, before the grednel took off. I looked years ago when i wanted a 6ppc. And then, it can be a chicken-or-the-egg situation in which bolt rifles were coming out jointly in both grendel and x39, a la Ruger American.
If it were truly an issue related to tooling and/or bolt face, which is a valid rationale, then why do you see 224 Valkyrie bolt guns before you see 6.8? I think the idea is that bolt action is generally more geared towards precision (as a trade off for slow cyclic rate) so might as well go for "accurate calibers," hence Valkyrie before 6.8spc.
Finally, your statement if the Ruger American came in 6.8spc, has a huge presupposition that the caliber was not been considered by Ruger before. I'm going out on the limb here and say that during development of all the American Ranch rifles with traditional AR calibers, that the gun guys at Ruger both knew of and considered the 6.8spc. I believe the 6.8spc was out before the grendel was. And if they did then must have dismissed the caliber, or at best decided to commit more of there initial resources to 6.5 grendel over the 6.8spc. Not saying gun manufacturers are the be all end all, but obviously they have skin in the game when i comes to the specific topic of 6.8spc vs 6.5 grendel.
Your arguments seem in-congruent with what is actually happening the market.

Not trying to stir the pot, but think i am being that jerk.

You aren't being a jerk. We can disagree on why there are some Grendel bolt actions and their aren't any 6.8s. They are both good rounds. I'm not knocking the Grendel. I said in my first post that if I had a Grendel, I wouldn't buy a 6.8. I just don't see much difference between the 2 and happened to get a get the 6.8 first.

I can Guarantee you the 6.8 would sell in an American Ranch. Come one, it's a cheap, 16" barreled rifle that is threaded for a suppressor and takes AR mags. The biggest thing is doing it in Spec 2 since that is what all the 6.8 nerds want. Be a great kid rifle.

The knock on the Grendel for several years was ammo availability and only Hornady and PPU making the ammo then PPU stopped it for a while. Howa was the first to the market with the 6.5 Grendel boltaction. CZ who had a poll on their website years ago asking what the next chambering in the 527 rifles should be the Grendel won that pole by like 70% but for some reason CZ sat on the idea until Legacy Sports was getting more orders than Howa was delivering their Mini Bolt chambered in Grendel. CZ took notice and it was very easy for them to produce a Grendel as they already had everything needed but the barrels. Now Ruger is in the mix with the Ruger American Ranch that should be hitting stores any time now if it hasn't already. CZ now has several models as does Howa.

As far as ammo the larger manufactures have taken notice of the increasing popularity of the Grendel and more are getting in the game. Hornady, Federal, Nosler, PPU and Remington are all selling Grendel ammo now. Brass for the reloaders started out in the Grendel with Lapua and they still make it as does Nosler, Hornady, PPU, Starline and one more I am forgetting. The old PPU used a large rifle primer the new brass uses SRP so hopefully it will go more than 3 or 4 shots not before the primer pocket expanding resulting in loose primers.

603 you are right about the 90gr and those velocities being eye catching but how about your 6.5 100gr BT running right at 2800fps or the 90gr Varmagedon at 2950fps is not bad? And remember the Grendel max pressure is several thousand PSI less than the 6.8.

I am not knocking the 6.8 but I just like the 6.5 bullet diameter and every thing I have shot with the Grendel has died quickly be that small like raccoons at the feeder or large like a 200+ lb hog and critters in between. I am sure if any of those shots were with the 6.8 SPC the results would have been the same. But I doubt I would have had the fun of busting rocks at 600 yards reliably with the 6.8 Like I do with the GRR. Plus I already load for 3 other 6.5s and no .270.

Now that is smart. I didn't realize they coming out with one. I'm sure it will sell for all the same reasons I wanted one in 6.8 SPC. I just thought Ruger was missing it with just the 223, 300 BO and 7.62x39 chambering in the Ranch. I saw they were coming out with the 350 Legend but I have zero interest in another short range cartridge.

https://www.ruger.com/products/americanRifleRanch/specSheets/36926.html

They also have it in the Predator

https://www.ar15performance.com/6_8_barrels

Good reading about the 6.8 not quite so simple or cut and dried as posted above.

Funny thing, I bought a Grendel barrel from this guy...great barrel. If I was interested in a 6.8, I'd try his barrel. Also for the record, I've got more Wilson barrels than anything else.

Well...I have no interest in an AR type rifle, so if I bought another rifle it would be something small and light, and a bolt action. Truth is that I really don’t need another rifle (so what, you say, correctly), but who knows what I might buy if I get the urge.

kmon1 got my reload number wrong on the 260. I have the 100 gr BT’s cooking along at just over 3000 FPS, and the 120’s at 2800. The 100 gr bullets have done a really good job on the pigs and deer, and the coyotes (which is why I loaded up the 100’s in the first place). And you know how things are, so when I went out after coyotes, the pigs showed up. And they all died. Then I started whacking pigs with the 65 gr GK and the 223, and all my preconceived notions have been modified. Now a 90 gr Bonded Solid Base at 3000 FPS from a 20” barrel in that 6.8 sounds like a pretty good critter shooter. I can work with that. I can hunt with that.

And I found a well used tang safety Ultralight Ruger 77 223 in a gun shop in Hico. That could be made into a perfect bolt gun in 6.8 SPC.

All that said, you guys seemed to be more in favor of the Grendel, but never really gave me info on why, other than a personal preference. I wouldn’t be shooting long range with either, so BC isn’t much of a factor to consider. For hunting inside 400 yards, and really more like 300 yards, is one better than the other? If so, why?

Either by published loads, or handload data for both, observe the foot pounds of both.

Unfortunately, you will have to plug in BC (even though you want to avoid it) as well as MV, and bullet weight, to extrapolate ft/lbs at various ranges.

It still puzzles me how some people want to associate BC only with shooting medium to long range. It is just another parameter to use in finding out what ammo can do. It applies at all ranges, same as MV. And in many cases more so.

I don’t really avoid considering BC, though you long range guys are understandably more focused on it.

I’ll do a bit more research on the two calibers. I haven’t even looked closely at the relative ballistics yet.1

You should. My 12.5" ARP in 6.8 SPC II is sub-MOA all day long, and with all ammo I've fed it, be it factory or my own handloads.

Personally, I don't think there's enough difference between the two to warrant much of an argument. I do think the Grendel is riding the coattails of another cartridge of same diameter projectile.

If you are staying inside of about 300 yards, then the 6.8 will shine. BC is an important aspect of longer range shooting, so it is something to look at. But at shorter ranges, I personally do not even look at it. I go with a quality bullet that will give me the terminal performance I am looking for. The 6.8 is a good hunting round in the AR-15 platform.

If someone wants to know ft/lbs. BC has to be entered. Same as bullet weight, diameter, MV.

Unless there is a ballistic calculator, I don't know about, that will provide ft/lbs without BC being entered.

While BC must be put into the calculator it has near zero bearing at short range on lb-ft of energy or terminal performance. In fact, terminal performance is often higher with a low BC bullet of the same weight at say.. 50 yards. A bullet with a wide meplat and a lower BC will usually create a greater wound channel than a high BC bullet of the same weight and velocity. Of course this only works when the velocity is the same.

My views

If you are a hunter, you need to look at bullet selection & performance. That is what sold me on the 6.8 in a non-AR rifle. I suggest you look at the bullet tests on the 68forum. While not highly scientific they are very surprising - especially the Speer HC, GoldDot, & Corelok 130gr bullets. Yes they DO expand. It is NOT a long range cartridge but it is easy to hit things under 300 yds & the bullets work at low velocities.

6.8 bullet expansion tests

The 6.8 outside the AR platform becomes a different cartridge. A longer magazine means more case capacity if chambered properly. What AR shooters love about the 6.8 is how well it does in their rifles with 16" barrels. But put it in a 22" or longer barrel with slower powders the "baby .270" really begins to shine.

FWIW

From page 1...

oh dear God..
this one will never die
it doesn't really matter at the end of the day
I have been running 6.8s for 10 years for close range stuff, generally inside of 200
just works

Agreed!

… cool

Double Naught Spy sure likes his 6.5 Grendel that shoots Hornady V-Max 95 grain from ChadTRG42. The pigs don't. But only for a moment.

Back when I made the choice of 6.8 or Grendel I was already loading for 6.5s and had bullets that would work In the Grendel so that made it an easy choice to me in an AR. It worked well (all the critters I shot with it died quickly) but I am a boltaction fan for hunting so I had a CZ 527 converted into what has become my favorite boltaction hunting rifle. If that rifle was chambered in 6.8 I am sure I would be just as happy with it

For my hunting shots in reality a 6.8 would have served just as well as the 6.5, well not sure about the coyote at 450 yards but that is the only critter I have shot past 350 yards with it. I doubt I would have been busting rocks at 600 yards with the 6.8 but that fun is something that is just for fun and knowledge.

Another reason I liked the Grendel is the basic design the case is very similar to the PPC line of cartridges and we know they can be accurate and from the start Grendel came with good brass, Lapua.

I hadn’t given any thought about what bullets I already had on hand. The supply of 100 gr BTs for my 260 would have me lean toward the Grendel, I suppose.

I didn’t mean to start a “ford/chevy” argument.

I am a 6.5 Grendel fan, not a fan boy. I don't care what people shoot so long as it is effective for their particular needs. I actually got into Grendel over 6.8 because of an incorrect consideration that a higher sectional density would mean better penetration. I was coming from .308 after abdominal surgery and needed a lower recoiling rifle and I had been the .223 route, but wanted better. Well, the sectional density of Grendel bullets are higher than those of 6.8, but that only matters so long as the bullet remains true and doesn't expand or deform significant. Well, nobody hunting wants bullets that remain pristine, LOL. And, as it turned out, both have reasonable penetration for hunting typical hogs, deer, etc., normal fare.

In my experience, there seems to be a higher percentage of tinkerers in the Grendel community than the 6.8 community. Historically, this was out of necessity because of the lack of commercial builders of Grendel and the lack of ammo manufacturers of ammo. Grendel folks seem to swell with pride for having personally made guns and personally loaded ammunition, custom tuning the two together. Nothing wrong with that, but I am one of the lesser numbers that don't build my own guns and don't load my own ammo. The Grendel community is smaller than the 6.8 community and that small size seems to bond them together more tightly as a community, IMHO.

In my experience, folks on both sides who are more of fan boys will stress particular features that they claim make one platform superior over the other and the features that are superior are always deemed of greater significance than any superior features offered by the opposition. As far as I am concerned, it is nothing but a lot of noise. The two platforms aren't so different that the differences matter to most people or will have any sort of significant impact on the game that they hunt. It almost isn't so much a Ford/Chevy argument as it is a trying to decide between two slightly different version of the same model of car within a given manufacturer. You know, one is a little more sporty and one is better for longer trips. Big whoop.

I love my Grendels, but would have no reservations of switching to 6.8 if for some reason the Grendel caliber somehow stopped existing.

I wish more people understood this concept. SD was touted for penetration from people that used solids.

Seems like if both bullets expand then there is still something to the sectional density. The bullet with a higher sectional density likely retains more weight, given similar bullet upset/expansion.

And for this reason I am very happy owning both.

I have not tried the 6.5 Grendel but I'm enjoying how hard the 6.8 hits big hogs at 200 yards.



https://youtu.be/syHGSy5IKMY

https://youtu.be/C0DH8goYvMU

https://youtu.be/NC9W4koHYek

If you reload, get the 6.5 if you buy off the shelf ammo exclusively, the I'd get the 6.8 . I have both.

I like the 6.8 and have had great success hunting with factory Hornady 120 SST and Federal 115 Fusion ammo.

The 6.8 has quite the reloader following, actually.

Very true and more and more ammo manufactures are stepping up with Grendel loaded ammo. Get the one you like and roll with it or get both. Rarely I heard anyone say they have too many guns.

So, reading through all the comments, it seems like the consensus is the 6.8 rocks and little girls prefer the 6.5, is that about right?

Tim, little boys like the Grendel too. I had my little boy mount his own rings & scope Saturday, then clean never fired barrel (longest 2 hours of my life but remained patient as not to ruin the event).

That is cool Gary and must have required a LOT of patience. He's gonna love it.

That was my interpretation too

I let mine pull the handle on the press to size brass and seat bullets. He also takes the complete bullets out of the press and into the box. Smiles like you wouldn't believe. Is that a Christmas morning picture? I bet the neighbors were jumpy lol

I briefly skimmed over the 4 pages and didnt see much of an elaboration on 6.8SPC vs SPCII chambers. If youre going to size 6.8SPC up against 6.5 Grendel there is a much greater benefit to the SPCII chambering. Problem is that spec2 is not SAAMI. SPCII barrels are readily available, but youre going to have to roll you own for SPCII ammo pressures....but by god, it's worth it. Off-the-shelf SAAMI 6.8 ammo is very anemic.

Ive got 2 of ARP's barrels. One in 4150CMV 12.5" 1:11.25 twist hybrid 5R.... and another 416R SS in 16" 1:10 twist hybrid 3R.

I hotrod them both with with 120gr SSTs and some Accurate 2200. My chrony see's 2450+/- FPS in the 12.5" barrel, and my 16" see about 2525 FPS. They are both absolute hammers on hog and whitetail. Grendel is too from what ive seen and heard.

Go with either. Youre going to be way happier then with traditional .224 cal chamberings.

But I will say that if youre not willing to put in the work to run a 6.8 in the SPCII configuration, Grendel has a clear advantage

Mine has also been a Rock Chucker lever operator for a while but will soon be carefully watched as he rolls his own. No, not Christmas morning, last Saturday. Yes, neighbors across the street had a good eye on him as they drove away. I'm kinda surprised my wife didn't tell me the neighborhood app was ablaze with chatter about it. People whine about everything on there, she says.