Swift AFrames Affecting Accuracy of other Bullet Types

I working up dual loads for my 30 Nos — 215 Bergers and 200 A Frames.

I’ve heard the Swift’s foul worse/different because of pure copper jacket. Will shooting the bergers and then Swift’s without cleaning the barrel affect the accuracy when I go back to shooting bergers or vice versa?

Could. There's no guarantee though.

If I will be using a different bullet, I always clean the barrel out squeaky clean before shooting, then shoot 5 foulers before trying out a different load. Eliminates one the variables if accuracy is not up to par.

It all depends on the rifle and load. I have seen some were switching between Swifts and other bullets were no problem and others where it was a problem. this might be a case where the powders like the new line from IMR Enduron with the copper fouling eraser can help. I know on one rifle of mine using Hodgdon CFE made a difference in accuracy across copper bullet to gilding metal and back improved accuracy

Why two different loads?

For my trip to S Africa —they don’t like bergers much over there and said their hunters have had less than stellar performance on the big plains game critters at close range even with the 215. I need a stout bonded bullet for 0-300 yds and will use the 215 for extended range

I'd just run the A-frames for everything.

10-4

I've killed probably 50 head of plains game over there. Your shots are not likely to be much more than 150 yards. Those super skinny/high BC bullets are pretty useless over there IME. I've used mostly accubonds, and a few partitions for all of them.

Did you ever try any Berger VLDs on animals there? Or anywhere?

In turn, have you tried the A frames there? The PH’s apparently think it’s a better alternative.

Nope.

Won't opine on them, because of that.

I will not believe EVERY animal on the African continent is "tougher" than EVERY animal on the North American continent. Having said that, this belief that Berger Hunting bullets are not really hunting bullets is asinine. And that is not an accusation toward anyone in particular. Plenty of big animals have been taken via Bergers, close and long range alike.

There are PH’s in Africa that don’t even think Partitions are tough enough to suit them. It’s a whole ‘nother world over there. A bullet’s only requirement is to kill as fast as possible. Many probably couldn’t tell you what BC is. It’s irrelevent to them. So, no, they aren’t going to want anyone using Bergers. That’s just not their idea of a hunting bullet. A-frames and solids rule that land.

Sure, you could use multiple loads, and some use a couple, but why would you want or need more than two when you aren’t shooting that far, anyway? It’s best to keep it simple. The PH’s know this. They not only make a living out of it, but they preserve their own hide while doing it.

Berger’s have their place in the hunting world. I just can’t make sense of trying to find room for them on an African safari.

Open plains game. Nothing but grass, wind, and distance.

Pure speculation on my part.

Same here. I’m just going off of what I’ve read.

I bet they’d do fine on most plains game, but some of the larger critters have a reputation for shrugging off all but the toughest bullets. Those PH’s don’t like to take risks, however minimal they may be, especially when they don’t know just how skilled their client may or may not be.

This will get me flamed. From observation, some that will speak very poorly of Bergers are poor shooters, and/or watched poor shooters try and use them. The old Rem Core Lokt is a great expanding bullet, and what I've seen is the ammo is 8" at 100 yards. Sure it expands reliably, but where in the hell are they going to go?

Is that better than the precisely placed, hand loaded Berger? As far as I'm concerned, no.

Let me clarify. I will be loading 200 AF for Africa as most shots will be 100 yds with a 400 yd being uncommon due to the habitat where I’ll be going. And I have a load for the 215 Bergers that I have worked up for hunting for N American big game and long range steel.

I found a good load for the Berger then worked up the AF load, but when I went back to the Berger it wouldn’t group for sh!t. Feel like I’m chasing my tail.

Did you clean, and re-foul in between?

No. That’s why I was asking.

I don’t doubt that, at all.

Change bullet, change powder, clean in between. Once cleaned, and shooting the next load, foul, zero, and obtain DOPE for that load.

8" at a 100 yards? I've never seen that. I've always had good luck with the cheap flat based factory ammo before I started reloading. I've never used Bergers but I'm sure they will work just fine. I think any 200+ grain 30 caliber hunting bullet will easily kill plains game from a 30 Nosler. That momentum is going to be hard to stop in an animal.

I said that because that is what happened when a customer brought then out. He shot 60 Winchester 180 gr Power Points. Then switched to 180 gr Rem Core Lokt. I told him the scope would need to be zeroed for that ammo, but give it a few shots to see how it groups. 1 and 2 were within an inch of each other. Shot three literally was 8" left and 2" low. We had just checked all the screws' torque, and he didn't mess up the shot that bad, he had already hit everything out to 800. I've NEVER seen that crap shoot consistent in any rifle.

Buuuut....

I haven't used it in years so I will take your word for it. I get in arguments with my buddy about things all the time. His hunting experience was 20 years ago so he argues from that point of view. I have to remind him that some brands that were bad 20 years ago are good and some that were good back then aren't that great.

I concur.

Bushnell was WalMart optics 20 years ago. Surw they still have some that level, and they now have some that can hang with the big boys in clearity, and tracking. Just as an example of what you're saying.

Who on earth was shooting these rifles with Core Lokt ammo that gave you the impression they are 8" group type bullets?? LOL! And surly you must have seen this more than once before you would make an assumption like that.

The Core Lokt has its faults and I am no fan boy of them, but I have shot tons of different rifles with Core Lokt ammo and NONE have ever done that bad!

Ok, I am making it up.

Believe what you want.

I can believe an occasional rifle that would shoot certain ammo like that but it does not mean that is typical performance for that ammo or that the bullet itself is to blame.

I was culling last year and testing different bullets. Used a-frames, sciroccos, partitions, pro hunters, speer, barnes, woodleighs, etc... I would change after every 15 animals. I noticed no change in impact. I ran a dry boresnake thru the barrel after every 15 animals. Never had a problem.

It is possible to have to do some long range shooting. There are open grasslands and wary animals who will keep moving and putting 3-400 yards distance between you at all times. I have shot one animal in all of my trips that was over 200 yards. A gemsbok at 400. Just could not get closer.

Off-topic, but I used to solely use Core-Lokts in both .243 (100gr) and .308 (150 gr) for Mills county whitetails. About 8-10 years ago, suddenly neither gun would group with newly purchased Remington ammo. The .243 was always a 1.5" or better gun, the .308 sub MOA. Now the .243 was a 4" gun and the .308 was over 2". I checked everything on both rifles and switched to Win Ballistic Silvertips; .243 was 1.25" and .308 was back to sub MOA. I've since upgraded the ammo in the .308 and bought a box of Corelokt to use as foulers. For grins, I chrono'd 5 rounds. Through a 24" barrel, only one made the factory claim for FPS, and the slowest was 190FPS below the fastest. I can easily believe FJG's claim.

Core-lokts used to be great. Something changed. I won’t touch them, now.

Remington has always had its problems but Cerebrus took Remington right into the dirt. Maybe they can bounce back if they can divorce themselves from Cerebrus.