FL resize doesnt bump the shoulder?

I'm new to reloading (have only reloaded a few hundred rounds of plinking ammo for an AR). I'm using a Hornady single stage press and Hornady custom full length dies.

I'm in the process of trying to find a load for my 6.5 creedmoor (143 ELD-X and once fired Hornady brass). My issue is after I did a full length resize of my once fired brass the shoulder did not bump back at all. Using a Hornady head space gauge the brass measures the same length after resizing as it did before the resizing. This is with the die all the way down flush with the shell holder and slightly backed off a half turn as well. Is this normal? Does it take more than one use for the brass to grow enough to need to bump the shoulder? The resized brass seems to chamber and eject with no issues. Also do I need to trim the brass after one use or can I get a few uses before trimming?

I've read that you want to bump the shoulder back 0.002, but with my die this seems impossible.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Probably error in die set up.

You should put shell holder in ram and raise to the highest point, then screw die in till contacts shell houlder, then lower ram and screw the die in just a little more then set lock ring. If you screwed it in till it touched the shell houlder then backed the die out a little you are not full length sizing.

Yup, what he said

Most books will offer information on max/min lengths which can be used as a guideline for when to trim.

Some trim every firing, I seldom trim.

When properly adjusted, you should feel the ram "cam over" against the die.

I have tried it all three ways.

Ram to the highest point with die flush.
Ram to the highest point with die backed off half a turn.
Ram to the highest point with die screwed down a half turn.

All three produced the same results.

The way you should do it is with the ram at highest point and shell holder in screw the die in till it touches then lower the ram and screw the die in a little more, think a 1/8 or so.

If that still doesn't do anything I would call Hornady and inquire about setup/possible error in the die and/or have you rifle checked for headspace.

Make sure you read their directions and follow them.

I have had a couple rifles that you could just neck size and shoot as the spent casing chambered without any difficulty and did the same after reloading them, tight chambers behave differently than one that lets the case expand amore.

I’ve also had dies where I’ve had to either have the shell holder shaved or the bottom of the die. It isn’t normal but it does happen.

I had this problem when using the hornady dies with an RCBS shell holder. Got a hornady shell holder and I could get it to bump the shoulder just before the ram would cam over.

Have you tried screwing the die all the way down to the raised shell holder, lowering the ram and then turning the die down an additional turn?

What you said at the beginning about screwing the die all the way down to the shell holder and then backed off a half turn is all wrong.

If what I said to do doesn't get you some set back then you may have an undersized chamber or you need to switch shell holders like Sigmund said.

Read the instructions with the die set. Put the shell holder in the press. Raise the ram to the highest point just before the press cams over. Screw the die down till it touches the shellholder. Tighten the lock ring. That is setting up for full length size per Hornady instructions. Measure before and after. Screw the die further in to bump the shoulder further. Back it out to not bump the shoulder as far.

My advice to gain a better understanding is sacrifice a piece of brass to learn. Set the die up as described to full length size, then back it out two full turns. Ink the shoulder on a case with a sharpie. Run it through the die. A portion of the neck will be sized. The shoulder will be untouched. With your head space comparator measure the shoulder. Screw it in a quarter turn more then re-ink and resize. Measure what you get. The ink will tell you when the shoulder of the case makes contact with the die. Keep repeating till you end up with the measurement you are looking for. The neck on your case will be way over worked and should either be discarded or annealed but at the end of the excercise you should have an understanding of what is happening and how to set up your die.

So you have felt cam-over? This requires a significant amount of force, and this action is why loading benches have to be By-Gawd strong. It is a bit violent on some cases.

Cam over or not, the die MUST make hard contact with the shell holder to get a FL size. You NEVER back the die out half a turn after making contact with the shell holder. You go down further, or until you have a proper position with the ram making contact with the shell holder.

I had to wait until I got home to check this, because I couldn’t remember earlier...

I also have the hornady “custom grade” dies.

What headspace bushing are you using? Seems like this could be an issue if you were using one to big?

I believe it should be the 0.400” for the 6.5 creedmoor.
http://www.saami.org/PubResources/_CC_Drawings/Rifle/6_5%20Creedmoor.pdf

As you suspected, on new brass it may take several firings before it is necessary to bump the shoulder back. At this point, try just neck sizing and firing the brass once, or twice, more and then using your head space gauge check the brass to see if the shoulder is moving forward. Keep neck sizing until it becomes stiff, or sticky, to close the bolt on a fired piece of brass.

At this point, I would not worry about fiddling with die adjustment.. Shoot the brass some more and you will see it begin to grow in length until you have to bump the shoulder.

Like someone mentioned above, with the ram all the way up, screw the die in until it makes hard contact with the shell holder. You can leave it there, or lower the ram and run the die in just a tad more (I NEVER do this as I have never found a need, or reason, to). I also never press my brass until it "cams over" as some people mention. When you figure out the length of your chamber, you can then make the brass the exact, correct, length each time for your specific rifle. I can assure you that unless you have a custom (tight) chamber you will not be F/L sizing your brass in the future with the die making contact with the shell holder. It will be turned out/away from the shell holder so that you are not pushing the shoulder back too far. NO, it won't hurt anything to F/L size the brass this way, but eventually, you may want to just re-size the brass to be the best fit for your chamber. Only through repeated firings, and careful measuring of the fired brass can you figure out how to re-size your brass.

If you can find a piece of brass that has been fired in someone else's rifle-that has a longer chamber-you can then measure that brass using your head space gauge set up, and then slowly bump the shoulder back until you get that piece of brass to fit your chamber. Then, you will know the length of your chamber for future brass resizing.

^^Whole lot I disagree with there.

I can't tell if the cam over thing on a hornady press is causing issues. One trick I do on my hornady classic press is put the handle all the way down, screw in the die until it make contact. Then I gently back the die like 1/8 or 1/4 turn at a time and then try to raise the handle. I keep doing this until it just barely makes it back over the cam with a little resistance.
Btw, I'm still very new to reloading so maybe this is not even an issue for u.

That is not what he should be doing. He needs to go past the point the shell holder and die contact each other. No lock ring tightening until he has gotten the amount of shoulder set back he wants.

^^Right

I was using the B350 hornady headspace gauge.

You guys helped me figure it out. I just needed to go down a little bit further with my die. I was getting it to cam-over before, but it was very slight. I lowered it down a bit more and had to put a little more muscle into it and felt it cam-over much harder and this is got me a 0.003 bump back. I was being a little soft with it before and figured if it was that hard then something probably wasn't right.

Thanks for all the help.

You can back out a bit and get the bump down to .001" to .002", with enough trial and error.

Just to save someone future grief not ALL dies are adjusted the same ex: RCBS and a few others say until it touches shellholder then adjust down until shoulder is set where the brass chambers easily.
Well if you use that method with a Whidden die your round probaly won’t fire as you will have set the shoulder back too much. None of my Whidden FL dies touch the shellholder. I would guess they have about a thickness of a dime’s clearance. That’s why Whidden sends you a headspace gauge with each die.

I can nearly say that tool is an "always use this when setting up a sizing die".

Only time to not use it, might be when FL sizing brass for a gas gun.

Post Oak, I probably did a poor job explaining but I was trying to let the OP see that without screwing the die down far enough he won't even size the whole neck. As he continues to screw it down he would see where the shoulder contacts the die. As he continued to screw it down to bump the shoulder where he wants it he would have to go beyond the point of the press camming over. My thought was, he would then fully understand how to set up his die and understand why the shoulder on his case is not currently being sized like he wants.