Cutting Edge Bullet range report

just got home from the range. what a great day to be outside. i'll post pictures in a few minutes but they shot terrible in my loading. i'll have to contact them, see what I've done wrong. the ELD-X's were fantastic as were the Nosler 140 Ballistic Tips.

The bullets are to be seated just to the Seal tight band. This really put the bullets deep into the pretty full cases. I haven't measured to the lands with these yet, just loaded as per Cutting Edge suggestions.. we'll see.

Hey Buzz, why to the bands? Why would it matter? With their aggressive ogive bullets, I'd seat them as close to the rifling as I could get it.

And yes, today would be a GREAT range day. I wanted to go, but I had too much ammo to get shipped and done.

That’s what they recommend, but I don’t think it has to be done that way.

Did you try different charge weights?

Check these out, I mounted the n ew Swarovski Z6 5-30X50, so the groups are all over the place as I sighted it in.

This first target is my Fairbanks custom 6.5 Creedmoor 140 Amax, 42.4 H-4350, and my Remington 700 5R, Think I'm gonna shoot one of these at Jason's match, depends on which one I can hold up the longest!!!!!!



This one is the Barrett, 1-8 Twist, 21" #1 contour barrel, 6.5 Creed, 42.4 H-4350 Nosler Ballistic Tips and the ELDX !! nice.



OK, here are the Cutting Edge targets , look like I shot the target with buckshot.




Here is a round showing seated to their seal tight band. There is a groove, band, another groove.



AND NOW I NEED A DRINK

Your velocities are all over the place. Just need to find the right node for that bullet. It will be different from other bullets of the same weight, because of the bore riding design reducing pressures.

They gave me this, seems awfully light loads. They also sent me loads from Quick Books

James,

Here is some data for the single feed and magazine feed. The loads below are proven data from our own testing with the magazine feed 130gr. These 3 powders have been the best for the Creedmoor. These again are all max loads. Let me know if you have any questions!

Rifle
6.5Creedmoor
6.5Creedmoor
6.5Creedmoor
Bullet
MTH 264 130
MTH 264 130
MTH 264 130
Bullet Weight
130gr
130gr
130gr
Powder
H4350
VARGET
H4895
Powder Weight
39.0gr
34.0gr
33.0
Primer
Fed210
Fed210
Fed210
C.O.A.L.
2.640”
2.640”
2.640”
Velocity
2700fps
2650fps
2600fps
Barrel Length
26”
26”
26”
Group( yrds)



Conditions





Nikki Hampton Croasmun
Customer Service/Inside Sales Representative

Their lawyer safe max loads. No way that’s true max.

39.0 grain of H4350 with a 130 grain at 2700 fps in a 26" barrel? Jeez, that's very light. And, why would you use H4895 in a 6.5 CM with a 130 grain? I can see someone using Varget, but 4895 is not in the right burn rate for that round.

I sent them an email for suggestions, I have a ton of more powders they list on their Quick Load Data

Buzz, H4350 will work fine. You could also copy Barnes data, since they are copper bullets also. Just check the bearing surface in comparison to the CE bullets. If the bearing surface is more, then reduce the load some, and vice versa.

I'm really disappointed in cutting edge. I've sent them three emails with these pictures asking for help and suggestions. all I received back are cricket chirps.

I guess they are too busy setting 3 mile shot loads

Or busy dealing with a customer who wants to work up a load versus getting a magic load that just shoots?

Have you tried actual load work up, or just a few loads that you thought would work?

well, the bullets are $1.16 each, I was kinda hoping my ELDX and Ballistic loadings would work. So, yes, I will try some work up, thought i'd get lucky

That’s not how it works. You know that. It’s a completely different bullet.

Use this gun Buzz, it'll be on fire!

Preach!

I will give Cutting Egde a break, I just realized they have been at SHOT and SCI. I would like to hear what they say, probably the same as ya'll but its their product and I'm sure they want customers happy who are paying this much for their bullets.

Today I will prep some Alpha cases (Which are very nice BTW). I have all the other suggested powders on hand for these bullet weights, 120/130. CE says use any reloading data you would use for regular bullets. I thought for sure 42.4 H-4350 would do the trick.

Should I stick with it and vary charge wieghts or go all out and throw some H-414, H4831SC, 4064, Ramshot Hunter, Ramshot Big Game,

Or put them on the prize table and stick with the ELDX and BT's

Or loan some to CHad for his magic.

You cutting edge loads look a lot like what some of my loads looked like with original barnes x bullets. I was always able to get them to shoot better by pushing them a little harder, they shot horribly with light loads, which it seems is the consensus of what you have.

Doesn't hurt to try a known load, my 243 likes pretty much any 100 grain bullet over 40 grains of imr 4350.

These C E bullets will be very aggressive in the shape of the bullet. They will have a longer ogive to tip length and probably a shorter bearing surface, which will make them more finicky. They have to be to be competitive with their BC's compared to lead bullets. (Copper is less dense than lead, so a 120-130 grain copper bullet will be about the same size as a 140 grain lead bullet) I have not played with them, so I'd rely on what CE says on where to seat them. But their data with 4895 is strange, so not sure.

Could you explain why a bullet with longer ogive to tip length and/or a shorter bearing surface would be more unpredictable?

Several reasons. One is that the case mouth doesn't grip the bullet (bearing surface) as well. You could have recoil induced COAL adjustments to those in a magazine.

Well sure but I'm about 100% sure that isn't the case with this, I'm looking for why he says a bullet with less bearing surface is less finicky. Would you care to share some of your other several reasons?

Think in terms of lands, leads, case infringement, chambers, and magazine limitations. Add in barrel twists. Now add in SAAMI and factor specs of all of the fore mentioned. There in lies factors that make things finiky.

If that doesn't make it clear as a bell, then the other stuff will just have you chasing your tail.

And with the short bearing surface, it is starting out farther away from the lands than a similar bullet with a longer bearing surface. So the .030" jump of a 140 gr. ELD-M is going to become more of a jump with a bullet with a shorter bearing surface. In order to get that .030" back in service, the bullet has to be seated out longer. And then, when your ELD-M was fitting in the magazine, now your Cutting Edge is not. Your COAL increased, even though your bullet jump was set the same.

Come on Texasteach... live your name up a little and teach. If all you can do is say the bullet might move in the case from recoil and name some jargon from the reloading/shooting practice I'm not interested in what you have to say anyway.

What I have to say goes over your head anyway. As I stated, unless you understand the correlation of those concepts, the solution to the posed problem is not something that you would understand.

Simple terms, it is too darn long for the way the factory made things. You must then compromise to make things work. You have to design the magazine/chamber around the longer bullet to make it work as intended.

Sure. About the bearing surface, this is the part of the bullet that is making contact with the rifling, or spinning the bullet. The shorter the bearing surface, the less contact there is with the rifling to stabilize the bullet. Not only putting the actual spin on the bullet, but the alignment keeping the bullet pointed straight as it goes down the bore. The less bearing surface, the greater chance of the bullet not being straight.

Take a look at these 2 different bullets (Berger 155 grain VLD and 155.5 FULLBORE). Both are 155 grain, but are shaped very different. The 155.5 grain full bore has a full .101" less bearing surface than the 155 VLD. That's 44% less surface contact than the same 155 grain VLD. This will make the bullet more sensitive to jump and finicky on the load. I'm not saying it won't shoot well, because it does. But the design of the bullet is more aggressive. Same thing on the ogive to tip length. The nose is longer, which makes the bullet more aggressive. The 155.5 fullbore bullet is also shorter than the 155 VLD, but yet has a higher BC, longer ogive to tip length, and less bearing surface. It's because the design of the bullet is more sleek and shaped more stream lined. This increases the sensitivity of the bullet to find the right load. So if you have a rifle that is having trouble shooting good, going to a really aggressive bullet would make it more challenging to dial the load in. The thing to do would be to go to a bullet that is less aggressive and not seating depth sensitive. I'd lean towards a flat base with a shorter ogive to tip length, with factoring in the barrel's twist rate.

The CE bullets are even more aggressive than this, since they are dealing with solid copper, and not lead. Copper is less dense than lead (it's a lighter material). To make a copper bullet similar to the BC's of the lead bullets, they make them more stream lined and aggressive. This increases the bullet length, which requires more twist to stabilize. The CE bullets are certainly that. They make a good bullet from my testing in other larger calibers (.375, .408, .338). I have not played with the 6.5mm or 308 bullets, but they will be sensitive on what load or loads they like

Bearing surface:
30 Cal 155 gr VLD Target= .330"
30 Cal 155.5 gr FULLBORE Target= .229"

Nose length (ogive to tip length)
30 Cal 155 gr VLD Target= .746"
30 Cal 155.5 gr FULLBORE Target= .816"

http://www.bergerbullets.com/pdf/Quick-Reference-Sheets.pdf

It's more finicky, or more difficult to dial in.

Thanks for the time and explanation Chad.

I use my Hornady OAL just to see how far they would go in and they stopped right on the "seal Tight" band. This ensures no gasses escape as with most solid metal bullets. I'll jump up powder charges. brass is prepped and tumbling now, i'll prime them later

The bullet shank goes far into the case. sorry, wish I know more about the details of reloading. Glad I got you guys

Buzz, I'd seat that bullet out LONG!!! (If you have the magazine room)

Here we go, I did set them out a little longer, trying some of their "suggested" powders, hope I don't blow up my sweet little, tiny, weak, inaccurate rifle

Well, at least you now know to buy a Tikka next time...

The 100 or 120 gr TTSX is your friend, and easy to make run well too.

dam straight