It takes 40:00 minutes

To let the Chargemaster throw a charge, move the pan to the beam scale, trickle a tad more, charge the case, and seat a bullet for 50 cartridges.

50 cartridges = 40:00 minutes.

I can do that without a chargemaster in same amount of time..... Old school with a scoop and a trickler.

One of the Lee fellows spoke about how accurate he had seen people be using a scoop and a business card. Yep, all in the wrist.

I believe you.

I've got to change some things.

As is the case with lots of things. All it takes is a pile of money.

I poached a measuring scoop from the wife's cooking utensils but it it works just as well. Scoop full amount per powder type then trickle up on the scale.

Stop gap measure, I'm thinking two identical pans. When I remove a full one, immediately replace it with an empty while I'm measuring on the beam scale. That way the Chargemaster is back to work while I'm fine tuning, and seating.

I took some 12 ga electric wire, stripped the insulation off one end and soldered a 8" piece of wire to an empty 12 ga shell, measured the power and poured it into the shell and then trimmed it down. One night in about 35 minutes I made about 12 scoops with different capacities. Your way sounds easier. I bent the wire back a few inches to make a handle. Total cost was about 17 since I had wire, solder, and empty hulls. Mine work regardless of batteries or electricity. minimum footprint on desk, drop them and no damage.

That's 80 minutes for 100 rounds, which is not very quick. You are right, it does take some expense to decrease that time frame. The fastest and cheapest method I have found is a good digital scale paired with an Auto Trickler. I'll run 2 Chargemasters side by side, both throwing the same initial charge weight, about .5 grains less than desired charge weight. I'll transfer this initial charge to the high end digital scale, and let the Auto Trickler trickle up to the desired charge weight. Say my desired charge weight is 43 grains, I'll have the CM throw about .5 grain under at 42.5, and transfer this powder to the digital scale with Auto Trickler (AT). The AT will automatically trickle up to whatever weight you program it to. I'll then pour the exact charge into the case, set the pan back on the AT, pour the next initial charge from the CM to the AT and seat a bullet. It takes about 5 to 10 seconds per charge, depending on your movement and bench vibration. The air current from moving your hands can drift the reading of the scale some. Sometimes bench vibration from seating the bullet during the final few kernels will mess it up. But once you get in a rhythm of the powder flow and seating bullets, it goes fast. Running a pair of CM with the AT, we can load 100 rounds in about 45 to 50 minutes time. Most of the time, the AT has finished it's trickle up and is waiting on you. It's very fast, and powder throws are accurate to .02 grains. It doesn't get any better than that!

If you are going to use an automated trickler why not just throw the initial charge with a powder measure instead of waiting for the CM?

That would work also. You'd have to do the same task either way; i.e. getting the initial charge on the AT scale. A buddy of mine uses the powder thrower, and he has it rigged up right over the AT scale. The only complaint this way is the powder splashing some out of the pan. I already had multiple CM, so I used those. It saves you the arm movement of dispensing it with a powder thrower vs. the CM throwing the charge for you. But both would be quick.

Ever since you and Judd told me about the auto trickler, I've had it on my radar. I've got other things to spend money on. And Lord knows I've already spent plenty this year. One day, I'll get one.

Another in the digital scale, tiny measuring cup camp here. I set my powder measure for .3 gr or so over, move to the digital scale, and use the tiny scoop to remove the excess. Not too bad. My powder measure seems to be good to about +/- 0.5 gr, so occasionally I'll have to use the trickler to add just a tad.

Never timed it though!

Now, the one thing I do question is the real-life accuracy of my digital scale. I have seen it go up or down 0.2 or 0.3 gr with the same load.

Yes. If the scale is a strain gauge scale, it will certainly drift. I did a lot of research on the different type of scales (what system is used inside the scale to weigh) and the strain gauge will drift. Plus, they can easily have interference from cell phones and lighting easily. I always knew when I had a call or text coming in when I was reloading with my old scale. The scale would go berserk for the second or two before the call came in. And, these type of scales need at least 30 minutes to warm up to be more consistent.

Also, if you use a scale that is powered by batteries, the amount of juice in the battery will effect the accuracy/consistency of the scale. I spent some time on the phone with a few tech guys with scale companies.

When I'm loading hunting/accuracy ammo, I use a powder meter, beam scale, and trickler. I can't see how a digital system is worth the expense or headache.

I've made tiny shooting ammo, only using a Chargemaster, and could make 50 rounds in 25 minutes. But I've stepping into a little higher level of OCD with my competition rifle. There have already been times it's show that it helps. But just a little bit.

Yesterday I loaded 100 rounds, weight checking against the beam scale. I think, maybe 8 Chargemaster charges were perfectly in line with the beam. The other 92 needed 1 to 6 kernals.

Even for precise hunting ammo, I believe the Chargemaster will be sufficient, and I do that frequently. But for this rifle, I've stepped things up a bit. It increases time spent, so I'm loading 50-100 rounds as I have time, until I get the 300 I'm going to need next month.

Then Judd tells me he believes cold metal welding to be a real thing. And really I should be loading them long, then seat to proper length a day before I need them.

I can do that old school. Drop into pan, on scale, press foot switch to trickle.

I have found that it is faster to under charge .2-.5 gr
Then pinch powder and drop kernels

And/ Or drop kernels as the CM is spinning it ll stop when it s close
Top it off with kernels in between fingers

Isn't there a way to reprogram the CM so it throws faster?

Done it.

I'm never waiting on the Chargemaster. I hacked it, and made the insert for the auger. I really need another pan so it can work while I'm checking weight on the beam.

I have 3 Pans that weigh exactly the same. I just swap them between processes. Still takes too damn long. If you actually calculate what your time is worth, its really not cheaper to reload. But you don't get the same amount of precision.

Gotta have the precision.


\\\///

OCD or getting ready for bench rest completion?

No benchrest for this guy. Just some steel very far away.

Penetration tests?

Not my thing.

Tell us more on this, please.

Maybe Judd will show up.

The metal of the bullet somewhat adhering to the metal of the brass case. Takes some time to occur, but Judd told me he noticed cartridges shooting slightly different if they were seated several days ago, versus cartridges that were seated just prior to shooting them. Of course, is a bench rest guy, so he sweats thousandths within a group.

One step that will speed things up a bit is the Omega trickler with the beam.

It is the poor man's Prometheus.

Kinda what I expected to hear. I'm betting temp and humidity have a hand in it too. Maybe even humidity during the initial seat, humid or dry air inside the case. I wonder if it has any affect on a shooter that doesn't measure groups in thousandths. I'm all ears to any edge I can get but this may be splitting split hairs.

In my game, I can't say I've noticed one way or another.

When I do punch paper, it's just to check 100 yard zero, and most of the time, it's perfect. Even with ammo that's been loaded for a couple of months.

My greatest concern right now is powder charge being exactly the same case to case. I shot the lowest ES I ever have today, and I loaded that ammo two days ago, trickling powder to within 2 kernels. Will it do it again, with ammo that's been loaded for two months? I don't know, and highly doubt I'll shoot a group while chronographing at the same time, as I rarely do that. But if the ammo makes center hits on steel out to 800 yards, the same way, in the same environmental conditions I'm very happy with it.

Cold bonding takes place due to the actual physical migration of one type of metal into another type of metal on the molecular level. Heat can accelerate it. The phenomenon is also influenced by pressure of contact between the two items in question. It is actually used in some manufacturing processes to bond dissimilar metals.

Chad says he does not like to clean case necks excessively because that could promote cold bonding, and I think he's right about that. I use stainless media myself, so my case necks are squeaky clean when I seat a bullet, but I've developed the habit of dipping case necks in Imperial Dry Neck Lube before charging with powder. I don't really know if I am avoiding cold weld or not, and if my ammo is developing the cold weld I haven't seen any effects of it. Yet!

Judd got me out of the habit of stainless tumbling as often as I had been. As is, the carbon in the neck acts as a dry lube between bullet and case mouth. I can see the logic behind that.

I've gone back to walnut vibratory most of the time. But I'll never get rid of the stainless tumbler. With my range pick up brass, it sure can make cases that look like dirt, look new again.

I leave the carbon in the necks. I just always thought it better to do it that way,,but had no scientific reason other than thinking it would 'grease' the neck a bit.

Seems like I read that David Tubb, in the interest of having consistent neck tension (and no chance of cold bonding) used to seat the bullets a touch long as they were loaded and would later, just before competition, use his in-line seater to take the catridge to final desire OAL. In theory it would break any bond that might have developed between bullet and case. I thought that was very interesting conceptually. Maybe it's the little things like that that make the tiny difference that helps a fellow win.

Same thing Judd does, as I mentioned in a previous post. Seat long, then finish seating just before shooting. In my case it would have to be two days before, at best.

I'd sure like to know just how much it affects pressure, velocity, and accuracy, and whether or not it has detectable effect in a hunting rifle. If I was shooting competition, I'd do the same thing (finish seating just before the match)---but I might choose to load right there at and during the competition, and for more reasons than just that. But that idea just isn't going to fly for hunting ammo, is it?. Errr, maybe I could bolt up a press in my blind?

Nah.

I contacted one of the ammo manufacturers some time back and asked what they do to avoid cold weld. The answer was somewhere between "huuuuh?" and "nothing, not an issue." I don't recall precisely what they told me because I didn't find it helpful at all.

You know well as I do, their priorities are different from ours. Somewhere at the top, for them, is speed of manufacturing. For some of us, we will sacrifice speed in manufacturing for precision ammo.

All true...but there IS factory ammo that shoots pretty damn good.

Or so I hear.

No argument.

They did the OCW or the Ladder Test, and found the area where MOST shoot DECENT.

I heard my name

I'll start...the auto trickler guy it's coming out with integrating a powder drop it will be as close as you can get too a Prometheus without having to spend almost 4k and be able to swap powders without changing wheels. I have the auto trickler, I'll get the dropper add on. I'm real pleased with it and the quality.

JG is right...I NEVER tumble brass. I'm of the opinion that nothing good can happen from your brass, you've worked so hard on, beating around in a tumbler against each other or against stainless steel. I wipe the carbon off the outside and run a nylon brush in the necks to pull off any loose carbon.

I'm not sure about the whole cold welding thing but I can tell you that something goes on. I can load shells long today and finish seating tomorrow or next week and there are completely different feels to that final seat. Enough so that I never shoot a case that has sat over 24 hours at shooting seating depth for money...I do however load long and final seat then shoot almost every match I shoot now a days.

Reloading to me is a necessary evil. I really don't enjoy it all that much

I use the CM, about every 5 charges I'll have to dump a bit out and re-trickle. It all pretty much balances out time wise.

The Chargemaster's price seems to have gone up quite a bit.

Gander Mountain has about 6 of them on the shelf (Frisco location) I would buy a back up if they really dropped the price. They will go fast when they do take their next price drop.

Which Auto trickler is everyone using?

That FX120I is a pretty penny...

Was that fast? I thought that was fast.

And it's worth every one of them