Hybrid vs VLD

Here's a seating depth test using the 140 vld in a .260 I've NEVER seen any of my rifles shoot the hybrid this tight in a seating depth test.

The following has been verified by numerous shooters in many rifles using bullets of different calibers and weights. It is consistent for all VLD bullets. What has been discovered is that VLD bullets shoot best when loaded to a COAL that puts the bullet in a “sweet spot”. This sweet spot is a band .030 to .040 wide and is located anywhere between jamming the bullets into the lands and .150 jump off the lands.

Note: When discussing jam and jump I am referring to the distance from the area of the bearing surface that engages the rifling and the rifling itself. There are many products that allow you to measure these critical dimensions. Some are better than others. I won’t be going into the methods of measuring jam and jump. If you are not familiar with this aspect of reloading it is critically important that you understand this concept before you attempt this test.

Many reloaders feel (and I tend to agree) that meaningful COAL adjustments are .002 to .005. Every once in a while I might adjust the COAL by .010 but this seems like I am moving the bullet the length of a football field. The only way a shooter will be able to benefit from this situation is to let go of this opinion that more than .010 change is too much (me included).

Trying to find the COAL that puts you in the sweet spot by moving .002 to .010 will take so long the barrel may be worn out by the time you sort it out if you don’t give up first. Since the sweet spot is .030 to .040 wide we recommend that you conduct the following test to find your rifles VLD sweet spot.

Load 24 rounds at the following COAL if you are a target competition shooter who does not worry about jamming a bullet:
1. .010 into (touching) the lands (jam) 6 rounds
2. .040 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
3. .080 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
4. .120 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds

Load 24 rounds at the following COAL if you are a hunter (pulling a bullet out of the case with your rifling while in the field can be a hunt ending event which must be avoided) or a competition shooter who worries about pulling a bullet during a match:
1. .010 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
2. .050 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
3. .090 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
4. .130 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds

Shoot 2 (separate) 3 shot groups in fair conditions to see how they group. The remarkable reality of this test is that one of these 4 COALs will outperform the other three by a considerable margin. Once you know which one of these 4 COAL shoots best then you can tweak the COAL +/- .002 or .005. Taking the time to set this test up will pay off when you find that your rifle is capable of shooting the VLD bullets very well (even at 100 yards).

Guess you went with the .050" jump.

Four shots at 100, hybrids.

Even Berger says the Hybrid are not as picky as the VLDs, but YMMV.

Haha I did! It was shooting so well I had to sell it and buy another rifle for some odd reason

Why would you want to shoot more groups with a different jump than the group that shoots like that?

My point IS that in MY experience the hybrid IS sensitive to jump. I can't shoot them in my current rifle because jam-10 thou off is the ONLY place they shot well. At that length I'd have to single feed...no thanks. Bergers claim isn't 100% true in my experience.

Cool.....now shoot 3-4 more groups with .010 jump sequence and I bet you won't produce groups near that size. I'm not saying hybrids suck...they're a great bullet. My personal experience is they require a lot of work to shoot well.

Jeff, have you experimented with various jumps? No one that isn't benchrest wants a single shot rifle, that was built to be a repeater.

He's missing every window tuning them like a vld. Most everyone I know who shoots hybrids can find a window between touching and .025 jump.

Man you jerked the crap out of shot #5

I might be missing them if I'm testing in .020 jumps...but then again they're jump tolerant bullets right?

Sure they're jump tolerant. I think what the guys are saying is that you probably could have made them shoot had you not jumped in such large increments. And, personally I'd want to know if I could refine my methods to make even better hand loads. I think everyone's motivation is that of wanting to help with information for future projects, rather than calling you dumb

Are the 6.5 Berger Hybrids only available in 130 grain? It's the Tactical OTM bullets, correct?

As is the usual process for most of us.

The point I was making is that we shot very few rounds, and did not jump the bullets near as large as twenty thousandth increments.

No there's a 140 hybrid and a 130 otm hybrid. 2800 fps range seems to be the ticket for the 140s. Some guys reporting accuracy with the 130s at a tad over 3000 fps. 2840-2950 is the norm for velocity I've seen for the 130s.

Right, but I was looking for 130 Hybrids only. Are you referring the velocity to the 6.5 Creedmore or 6.5 x 284?

The 130 otm hybrid is the bullet I'm referring to. It's the only one as far as the hybrid design in that bullet weight class of 130. I'm referring to 6.5 creedmoor not x284.

Funny you mention that. Judd taught me something about a month ago.

We had found "the powder charge". I got behind his rifle while he loaded ammo. I shot two rounds with the bullet even with the lands. I told him the spread in Mils. He jumped them .003", and loaded two. I shot those two, and reported the spread. Moved on with more of a jump, and we repeated. We carried on for several seating depth tests with only two shots. Then it tightened up. He noted the jump, and we carried on. It never got better, so we went back to that specific jump and he loaded me three. I shot that group, and it was pretty darn good. We did all this at 200 yards where it was plenty easy to see bullet holes.