Lee loading can go out of business for all I care.

I have a Lee universal decapping die, that the stem broke several months ago. I turned down a replacement and got by with it for a while. Saturday I went through the online process to get a replacement stem sent to me. I provided name address, phone number, email address, mailing address, and explained the problem. Here is the reply I received.

Hi Jason,

Please send a photo of the broken part in a reply email or send the part in to the factory for a warranty replacement.

Sincerely,


Lee Precision, Inc.
4275 Highway U
Hartford, WI 53027




The short version is, I told them I would put the die in the scrap metal bin, and never buy from Lee again. Their website says that part costs $3, and they want me to satisfy their curiosity over it?


I also told them their die lock rings are the worst in the industry.

I would humor them with a picture via email but that's it. That doesn't mean I disagree with your stance regarding the $3 part.

Sorry for your frustration - hopefully you feel a little better after posting this though!

Ever think that they have the photo or mail-in requirement because they don't want to send replacement parts so someone can just have extra? Situations like this are why I'd never want to be in CS. Too many people whining about mundane things. You could've sent a pic in the amount of time it took for this thread.

You couldn't get a new part on your vehicle without them having proof the one being replaced is defective. You going to never buy another vehicle again? I don't know one manufacturer that would warranty just based on a customer's word.

You evidently have not dealt with RCBS. I have had dies that I bought used with a crooked spindle. Called them, telling them it was a used die, and they still sent the part at no cost to me.

I haven't had any problems with my RCBS dies. It's still not a ridiculous request to email a pic. Maybe on top of proof, they want it for R&D? Everyone always thinks companies are out to screw with them.

I have a couple extra... I'll be happy to give you one

as long as you send me a picture of the broken one :-P I kid, I'll totally send you one though

My guess is that Lee wants to ensure that they send the correct part. Not everyone is knowledgeable about what the part is called by the industry.

I have sent Lee pictures before and they have never questioned me.
On high wear and breakage parts I just order several spares in advance. If you reload your gonna break things.
I know its the principle, but Geeze a $3.00 part ???
If your that hurt over it send me the pieces you tossed in the trash...

I agree with JG. RCBS and Hornady have sent me replacement parts without batting an eye. I suspect Redding would treat me just as well. Lee has never been so willing to please their customers in my own experience.

Typical Lee hate.

They keep costs down with a couple extra steps. No biggie. I'd just buy two more. All decap pins can break. I have all colors and shop accordingly.

I broke that part eight months ago, called them then, and they asked for me to jump through some hoops. I didn't have time to wait on them, so I made a new stem on the lathe. I explained that in my reply and that I did not have THEIR broken part to show them a picture of. I also explained that RCBS never asks their customers for proof that things have broken.

Yes it is principal. Instead of waiting on Lee to get their thumb our of their a$$ I'll just order and RCBS die today. Should've known better.

And what's wrong with having one extra stem sitting around? Some of us don't live in the city where we can just quickly go get a new one.

For those thinking its just sour grapes from me, you probably never saw the post I made last year, or year before, about RCBS. I talked them up when I called customer service, because they did a fine job. I will share good customer service experiences just as much as I will share bad ones. Usual gun/ optics/ loading industry customer service has been good, that's why Lee got under my skin on this one.

That's why I have a bunch of spares for all the brands of dies that I use. RCBS decapping pins are the worst pins on the market.I dont even use their decapping dies anymore. I've never broke a Lee pin, but have bent the crap out of a few on crimped primers.

The whole rod and pin was one piece of steel turned down to fit in the flash hole. No pin to unscrew and replace. I've broken RCBS and Redding pins before, and contacted them. Guess what! They each sent be about five spare pins. Pins break, it happens, thus the frustration with Lee in this case.

How is it 'BAD customer service',
when they agree to honor THEIR terms, ie (..."they will be repaired or replaced at no charge if returned to the factory..." )

If anything, LEE should be applauded by accepting a photo in lieu of the actual physical return.

Sorry FiremanJG, you're response just stinks on this one

I'm on Fireman's side. It's a $3 part. Probably cost far less than that to make.

And switching to RCBS is never a bad idea.

The only Lee reloading piece I have is the auto prime...just because it's simple and works.

The rest of their stuff is cheaply made and generally subpar. Hornady has taken great care of me as a customer in the past so I lean toward using them first.

I broke a Lee base the first day I had it. No thanks. Dillion or rcbs.

I agree. Will they not just sell one? I know Lee has a limited warranty; not lifetime. If you're out of the warranty period and they're still willing to replace it, I don't think you have anything to complain about.

http://leeprecision.net/support/index.ph...lacement-policy

http://leeprecision.net/support/index.ph...d-repair-policy

That's cool. Now look up RCBS's policy....

RCBS policy does not apply to Lee equipment, and doesn't matter in this case.

I get it. You're upset because your die broke. But that doesn't mean Lee's customer service is bad; their warranty just isn't as good.

I don't get it. It would take about 3 seconds to take a picture of the broken part with your phone and attach it to the reply email. There is no benefit to them to question your honesty over a $3 part. I seriously doubt that is what they are thinking. If it was my company, I would want the broken parts or at least pictures of the broken parts even it was just a 5 cent part. If it became a repeat problem I would want it to aid in redesigning it, to find if there is a quality control issue, or have it for passing on the problem of a defect to whoever they contract to make the part for them, etc. Three seconds of your time to take picture and reply it to the email is not an unreasonable request IMHO.

T.C. you missed the curve. Maybe so many of us are spoiled by what RCBS does and expect everyone else to do the same. Not unlike NF, Burris, SS scopes. Their name is on it, it broke, they fix it no questions asked. It has set the standard for scope warranty.

Sniper John, you must have missed the part where I said I do not have the broken part to take a pic of. Otherwise yes, I could have sent it via my phone. It just got in my craw that I filled out all that data over a $3 part and they wanted more, that I could not provide. I'll never stray from RCBS, and Redding again if Lee is the other choice. I don't care if I have to pay twice as much, you get what you pay for.

Exactly. And you can't expect the same warranty on a product that's half the cost of the rest.

Sure I can. Burris and Vortex are half the price of a NF.

Standards have been set, consumers appreciate it, other companies have to follow suit or suffer the consequences of decreased sales. Same reason guys that can afford a Schmitt and Bender PM II, but they don't buy one because the scope is not covered like other brands are. S & B doesn't care because they have military contract, and the government has an unlimited pot of gold.

I had the same thing happen to my decapping lee die. I ended up finding some replacement pins online that are hardened steel.

You had enough time to make a new one on the lathe but not enough time to jump through their hoops?

I have had broken lee parts in the not too distant past. I took a picture of the part sent an email with a brief statement and received an response in short order asking where they could send the replacement part to along with an apology. I posted it on here also. I think the reloading industry is the only one ive never had bad customer service in.

Scratch that... don't call sierra and ask them why they don't offer a bonded, partitioned, or guilding metal bullet, I got lectured about using the wrong bullet for the job and how all the others making these other such bullets were wrong.

the picture is for their records and financial accounting; a $3.00 part multiplied by x requests per year is what they can write off as an operating loss. Just like you need a receipt for the bag of clothes you donated to the local shelter when its time to do your taxes, they need the same evidence.

Sorry brother. I only read your first post and based my opinion on that. You mentioned refusing a replacement months ago, changing your mind recently now wanting the replacement, getting upset when they asked for a picture of the broken part, and that you then were throwing the die into the trash and no longer buying their products. I read nothing that said you no longer have the broken part to send a picture. This is a very inexpensive die. I looked on midway and based on 364 reviews, it has a 4.6 out of 5 rating. Not bad IMO for the cost. It is universal so it is not the best one for every size and type, being hardened steel it is going to break when in a bind, and with that nature of the beast it is known to break sometimes with stubborn crimped primers and military brass. Mine has never broken and mostly used on unusual caliber military brass, but knowing the issue with some military brass primers and believing I got what I paid for, if mine ever broke I would just purchase two or three extras next time I made an order. What was their reply that got you so upset when you told them you no longer have the part to send a picture?

Yes. Broke down decapping a buddy's brass, and a military piece got in, which is what caused the failure. Making a new one out of the hardest steel I had available took 20 minutes. Waiting on one from them going from Wisconsin to Texas would have been days.

20 minutes is less time than days.

So RCBS has a smarter accounting department. Got it.

Sniper, there is no separate pin. It is one piece of steel from one end to the other. You have the shaft most of the length, that tapers, then is turned down the size of a flash hole. Crap design. So when the pin breaks the whole thing is out of service.

No other decapping pin I have is built that way. I'm done with them.

I have not received a reply to my reply. That's cool, I've found my choice of RCBS dies or Redding dies to replace the scrap metal.

Correct. I was talking about buying an extra replacement full length decapping die pin if mine ever broke. I don't reload often enough to always be up on the correct terminology. Mine looks just like the picture below.

I almost always only use a hand press for decapping my brass. I bet that is the reason I have never had a pin break. If I feel the primer in a piece of military brass being overly stubborn, I just chunk that piece of brass rather than force it. Thanks for sharing the experience though. Nice to know Lee will replace it when it breaks. Made me realize why wait for it to break. I am going to buy an extra in advance next time I order something from midway or lee. Then so I am not dead in the water, I can use the spare while I wait for the free replacement from Lee.

I have had nothing but good service from Lee. I have 3 of their presses and several sets of the dies and 3 powder measures. I have contacted them a few times and they always sent me what I needed. People love to beat up on Lee. I like most of their products and some are just excellent. I know of no better pistol dies at any price and the factory crimp die is outstanding. Their Classic line of gear has all been top notch.

I did buy some hardened steel decapping pins that are hell for stout , they were about $5.

So their stuff breaks down often, and people talk bad about them? Wonder why?

You don't hear people bashing RCBS or Redding.

I've had great luck with most Lee stuff as well. But, as everywhere else on THF, it's JG's way or the highway...

I like their NS collet dies. Used too much pressure on my rockchucker once and the cap broke off (designed to do that and they caution it would happen). Sent a pic and they sent me a replacement. Good enough for me but then again I'm not much of a whiner.

He can tell his story and share his opinion on Lee stuff good or bad same as all of us. Lets not make the thread personal.

You are correct.

I don't have much of a dog in the fight because I have not used a lot of competing brand reloading supplies to compare. But looking at the reviews, I do see just as much if not more bad talk on those too. Since I still have the midway site up I will cut and paste the review averages from that one. There are really bad and really good reviews for all three.

Best I can tell RCBS is split between two universal decapping dies depending on caliber range. The 27-45 rates 3.8 out of 5 stars with 41 reviews. The 22-25 rates 4.1 out of 5 with 43 reviews, so lets just call RCBS a 4 out of 5 stars average.
The Redding universal die rates at 3.7, but that is only out of 12 reviews, so that one may not be very accurate overall.
The Lee universal rates in at 4.6 out of 5 stars, but is by far the most popular with that rating an average out of 364 reviews.

Just wait until you get your new RCBS decapping die, I guarantee you'll need some extra pins especially if your decapping crimped military primers. I have broken several. RCBS powder measures suck with extruded powders and are just about worthless with Varget but then again I'm no reloading expert or bench rest aficionado.

They usually come with one extra.

I said previously, that a piece of military brass slipped in. I use commercial brass, and scrapped my friends military that caused the problem.

I couldn't care less about their powder measure. The hardest working load tool I have is an RCBS Chargemaster. It's got untold thousands of rounds to its' credit.

I do not shoot bench rest, therefore am not an afficianado either.

My RCBS dies are the only ones that give me issues so there's your first. The decapping pin holder always comes loose which has resulted in several broke pins.

My Lee stuff makes just as accurate ammo as the other brands I use.

Enjoy it. Glad it works well for you.

A drop of low strength Locktite goes a long way, for the RCBS that give you trouble.

Your wrong,People bash every brand there is at one time or another. It just seems guy's like yourself think that everything that Lee Reloading makes is junk. They do make some stuff that isn't as good as others,but for what it cost,most people know that going into it.
Lee dies will produce as accurate ammo as any other die of the same type,and not lag far behind the competition dies. I own both,and have proved it many times over the years.
I've been running pieces of reloading equipment from just about every company in the business for 35+ years,and have had bad stuff in every color made.

It sounds like you need to be better prepared with replacement parts that are prone to wearing out,or breaking. I'm sure you have spare parts for your guns,or at least you should. Things break sometimes,be prepared.

I have other Lee dies, and have used them plenty of times. He brought up the alleged constant bashing of Lee. I've never heard that before this thread, but it looks like this is nothing new.

The main point of this thread is that I acknowledge things break, and WHEN things break some companies that build those things take care of their customers. When they take care of their customers, their customers return. I will not return to Lee.

I have two jobs that are 100% customer service, FD, and teaching on the range. I bend over backwards to take care of the customer's needs. So I get rubbed wrong when a company does not provide equal customer service to what their competition has provided in the past, and the customer service I provide every week.

The rare times I've had a problem was with RCBS, since they're the lion's share of the dies I have. I call, I hold, a rep gets on the phone, I tell them what's wrong, they ask for my address, the part arrives in two or three days. Call me spoiled, but I keep checking RCBS first for what ever I need for the loading bench.

It's a different design in an attempt (up to debate) to improve the old way the other makers do it. Their pins are much smaller and fragile. With the Lee die you can tailor the give away pressure by changing the torque on the retainer nut. The design is supposed to let the pin come up out of the die (if set properly) when a primer binds. If not and the operator continues to apply pressure, the pin will break....like all the other brands.

I've broken one and bent one....both on the universal decapper, never on a size die.

Sounds like someone is upset and pitching a hissy fit and running a company in the ground for nothing, or for something that is their own fault.

Look at it how you want to.

It is a shame that I've spoken so well of SWFA, SS scopes, Vortex's customer service, Horizon Firearms, Bushnell, Sierra, Hornady, Berger, Hodgdon, RCBS, and list goes on very long of whom I have, (and continue) to compliment. That generates PMs to me from guys asking for help on what to buy. I make one negative post of a company and some people feel the need to lynch.

I think its perspective. It's a three dollar part that many of us have spares of since they can break.

Wow.
Need to add Lee to the list of things not to have a negative opinion about.

You can pound nails with a four-dollar Harbor Freight hammer just as well as you can with a thirty-dollar Estwing hammer, but you cannot credibly claim the four-dollar hammer is just as good. I haven't broken a hammer (yet) but I wouldn't expect Harbor Freight to warranty their cheap tool like I would expect on the Estwing.

Some Lee stuff is very good, like the collet neck sizers, but if someone like Redding offered that type of die I would own no Lee collet dies. In general, Lee equipment just isn't as well made as the others and they do not back up their products anywhere near as well as most other manufacturers. That's just the way it is when you want to buy the least expensive equipment available.

The visceral defense of Lee equipment I often see kinda mystifies me. I'm sure there are more rational perspectives on the subject, but I think a lot of guys have a chip on their shoulders on account of their unwillingness to spend more on better equipment and refusal to recognize the fact that you generally don't get what you don't pay for. A thirty-dollar press is a thirty-dollar press just like a fifty-dollar scope is a fifty-dollar scope. They do what they do reasonably well as long as they last, but longevity is always in doubt.

These arguments would be a lot rarer and briefer if folks didn't take silly things personally.

And how long have you been loading, sir?

Good post, thank you.

well that's not a very open minded response.

I use a multitude of different manufacturer's reloading equipment. Over the last 25 years or so I've managed to collect lots of different dies, presses, trimmers, decappers, etc. I use what works for me, lots of good stuff out there.

You originally sent an email. If you would have included a picture in that email you probably would have gotten the same response I did, an apology and request for an address to send a replacement free of charge.

I broke the pin on my RCBS universal decaper, it took me salvaging one from one of my other die sets and a 2 hour round trip to cabelas to buy replacement pins to solve my issue.

Everyone knows lee isn't the highest quality at the lowest price and I just fail to see where you received poor customer service.

Because it is a $3 part, retail. Therefore they probably have less than $1 in it. I provided all of my information, enough for them to have sent it any time this week. Had they replied and said it would be a week before I get it, I would have taken no issue with that. They said a photo, or for me to return the part to them. Well, my first reaction was which is it going to be?

This is about principle.

Call RCBS and see what happens. One time they sent me the decapping stem for their new model of 7 Rem Mag. The die that the stem I had break on me was my neighbor's 30 year old die. I was setting up his dies for his rifle. The stem arrived, I recognized it was wrong, I called RCBS again. They apologized, and I even offered to mail back the stem I didn't need, on my dime. They told me it was so inexpensive that I did not need to do that.

Yet Lee wants more proof from me?

I'll write again, RCBS has set the standard, and they did so long ago.

Its about principle on their end too. It probably costs them $3 to have it shipped to you. They just want some form of proof, provide it and you get your new cheap piece free of cost.

They are not asking you for a notarized form and video of it breaking. Almost zero places will return anything without proof of purchase. Ok so they are not rcbs big whoop they cost 1/2 as much.

I'll gladly spend twice as much from now on.

You must have stock in Lee products.

No I just think your blowing up about something stupid.

I only own a few lee hand trimming tools. My general opinion of lee stuff is its cheap. But they also don't advertise a free no questions asked replacement warranty either.

I feel like if all they want is a picture to replace a part completely at their cost then that's a pretty stand up thing to do for any company. Sure maybe RCBS or other would handle it differently and good for them you bought a lee... Heck maybe you can call RCBS and see if they will send you a part.

No insult intended or hard feelings or whatever, im not taking any debate personally and hope you don't either, its a forum and we are all entitled to our own opinions, I just don't see how what they ask is unreasonable or even unexpected for that matter.

You, of course, can have your own view point.

Not just me

Your just as entitled as anyone else. Can you agree that why your so upset doesn't really make sense?

Lee has provided many with good or even great customer service. You are dragging their name through the mud because they wont follow a competitors warranty process???

Did you not know and understand what their warranty was when you bought it? If you send a picture they will replace it and be going above and beyond their warranty. I don't like breaking stuff any more than the next guy, but I see no way no how that any of it is Lee's fault.

I mistakenly made an assumption that every die manufacturer was as good at taking care of their customers as Lee's competitors are. Assumptions always get us in trouble. I can't send a pic, did you forget?

Man, if you didn't hate me before your going to now.

How hard is it to say? Here I will help you, it goes as follows...

I was wrong.

I know its hard to admit sometimes, sure is for me too, but it about time. Have a good one and hope you get your die needs figured out.

A guy's entitled to feel as he does. Disappointment, anger, frustration...they are emotions. You don't tell someone their feelings are wrong if you're any kind of thoughtful person. JG has voiced his decision to never buy Lee stuff again because of a negative experience, and some of you insist he's wrong??? THAT'S wrong.

I don't hate you, I am quite capable of admitting when I am wrong. But I am not wrong here. River Rider explained it just fine, so there's no point in me repeating him.

Similar to certain parts of Savage CF rifles. Just need to know what parts to keep on hand. Course on case resizing and primer removal some of us were taught to check for small pebbles in the case and also large chunks of polishing media after cleaning.

If anybody is looking for a great place to purchase Lee gear, Titan Reloading is outstanding. They are a mom and pop shop that offers great pricing quick shipping and excellent customer service.

if the transmission on your new car was under warranty, and it went bad would you expect the car mfg to give you a new transmission just on your word?

You're reaching.

A transmission costs much more than a dollar.

I did have a new truck for three months that wouldn't start on a super cold morning. I called the dealer and told them I need batteries. They told me to bring it in and they will test my batteries. I did that, and waited for two hours. Sure enough, I got two new batteries. I did tell them I understood them wanting to make sure that was the problem, but it takes two minutes to test batteries, and plug in a diagnostic reader, not two hours.

Yes, he is entitled to his opinion. He gave it and stated the facts as to why he will no longer buy Lee products. I can't deny it is probably best for both him and for Lee that they part ways and not do business with each other. For me this thread did not drag the company through the mud at all and I learned a lot from it. I reload for my hunting rifles using the more expensive calibers and only enough for hunting. I reload some odd commercially unavailable military calibers to shoot a few Curio and Relic rifles in my collection that I could not shoot otherwise. Most of my reloading stuff is Lee. I just don't use it enough to justify spending twice as much for other brands items when the Lee stuff is getting the job done. Best I can remember with the Lee reloading stuff I use, I have never had to return anything or have it replaced. Because of that I was not real familiar with the warranty before now. What I have learned from all this in my situation is that I have made the right choice. I am rather impressed with the easy warranty process considering the cheaper price point of the tools. It is more than reasonable and convenient IMO.

I also either did not ever read the instructions on the decapping die or did not remember them, so thanks to this thread I now better understand the design and how it is supposed to be used correctly. I had mine set way too tight.

"The trick to adjusting the decapper is to just tighten the decapper clamp enough so that the decapper will push out 90% of the primers, but the very stubborn ones will cause the decapper to slide up through the clamp. Start with the decapper clamp just tight enough to keep the decapper from falling out the bottom of the die. Try to resize a case. The decapper will probably slide up through the decapper clamp. Tap the decapper back down flush with the top of the decapping clamp, tighten the clamp another 1/8 turn, and try again. Repeat until you successfully deprime the case."

_________________________________________________________________

GUARANTEE AND REPAIR POLICY
As a Lee Precision Master Distributor, FS Reloading is pleased to extend the Lee Reloading Tools Satisfaction Guarantee to all of our Lee Precision customers.

You may get a full refund within 30 days if you are not 100% satisfied, from all participating dealers.
Lee dies are guaranteed to produce ammunition with less bullet run-out than any other brand. Ammunition loaded with Lee collet dies are guaranteed to shoot the smallest groups, even when matched against custom bench rest equipment! Not so daring as they have already broken one world record.
Lee reloading products are unconditionally guaranteed not to wear out or break from normal use for two full years or they will be repaired or replaced at no charge if returned to the factory.

The Lee Precision lifetime conditional guarantee states that any Lee product of current manufacture, regardless of age or condition, will be reconditioned to new, including a new guarantee if returned to the factory with payment equal to half the current retail price.

Another option is to send the product of any age back to the factory for repair. Labor is free and you are charged only for any parts that are necessary to get your product functioning properly.

Warranty Replacement Policy

As per our Warranty Replacement Policy, if you send us a picture of the broken parts via email, we will replace them for you at no charge. If you are not able to send a picture, we then ask that you send the broken parts into us via standard mail and we will replace them for you at no charge at that time.

Lee Precision uses a support ticket system for all warranty and replacement parts. Please consult thier website at http://leeprecision.net/support/index.php?/Tickets/Submit/RenderForm/4 to contact their customer service and warranty center.

Sniper, I'm glad you're happy with your many purchases with Lee.

I load thousands of rounds a year, for several chamberings. Things break, it happens, especially with heavy use. But when things break Lee's warranty policy isn't good enough for me. That's my stance, and I am not going to bash anyone that continues to buy from Lee.


If my RCBS Chargemaster goes down, I do not expect another one for free. It is a sophisticated electronic piece of equipment. But based on previous dealings with RCBS I am confident they will make it right. Just an example.

you're assuming your items are the only warranty item in scope for Lee - like i said before, i am sure they have over $1,000,000.00 in warranty claims a year, a buck or a grand is the same. they need the documentation required to support their business and to give you the part that broke under normal wear and tear.

Which is why I say RCBS, Redding, and Hornady must have smarter accounting departments. They remain profitable without needing proof from their customers that something broke.

Thanks for the link. I've bought from FS Reloading, they're another Lee distributor and run some good sales now and then also. I got to thinking I probably should lay in some spare collet die caps since I know Lee won't be too helpful when the need is urgent, and Titan has them for $3.50 a pop right now. I haven't ruined one yet but I'm sure the day is coming. Got myself five of those suckers.

When a manufacturer provides a warranty, regardless of how customer friendly it is or isn't, there is always a cost associated with it. Just like a products design and build quality, the warranty a company provides has true cost and an impact on how much that product is sold at retail for. They will project defective allowances, product failure rates, customer satisfaction, etc.. into the the cost of all of their widgets and pass that down to the consumer.
So when one company has a super friendly, no questions asked warranty remember that you already paid for that when you went to the cash register. When another company has a policy requiring some type of proof of failure or defect it doesn't mean that their service or warranty is worse than any other, you just didn't pay for it up front.

I can't believe this thread went on for four pages.

RCBS does require proof. They are more restrictive requiring proof of purchase and return of the item. I know you said you have called them to get around this, but who is to say Lee would not do same if you had replied back or called them to let them know you threw the part away already.


LIMITED LIFETIME WARRANTY

Reloading Press, Die, Manual Case Trimmer or Bullet Mould

Your reloading press, reloading die, manual case trimmer or bullet mould is warranted to be free from defects in material or workmanship for as long as the original owner owns it. This warranty is extended only to the original consumer purchaser. This warranty excludes any electrical components or products. All RCBS products are intended for non-commercial use by hobbyists. Any other use of these products will void the warranty. Should you believe that your reloading press, die, manual case trimmer or bullet mould is defective in material or workmanship, you must return the reloading press, reloading die, manual case trimmer or bullet mould to Ammunition Accessories Inc. through its Oroville operation (hereinafter "Oroville Operations") postage paid for evaluation. If defective, the product will be repaired or replaced at Oroville Operations' option, at no charge.

Send a dated proof of purchase to Oroville Operations along with the product information and reason for return to:

Ammunition Accessories Inc., Oroville Operations
605 Oro Dam Blvd
Oroville, California 95965

Warranty services cannot be provided without meeting the above requirements.

In practice, RCBS is much more accommodating than that.

why did i join this site.... it's just another internet bitch collective.

bye felicia.

Pot meet kettle.

Sometimes folks disagree, but this site has a wealth of information to offer and the OP is one with a lot of info and knowledge to share and readily does. If you say bye bye you either already know it all or your gonna miss out.

Damn. Another fountain of sage advice and pillar of support---GONE. Oh, the humanity!

Wow. It's his stuff!!!Damn.

Preciatcha!

Now go shoot some Partitions!

I hope to take your class some day... and I will not be taking it with partitions, but so long as 99% of my shooting is hunting I don't see a change too soon.

Have some hornady hpbt's and sierras ready for testing at 200 yard (furthest range I have) but ive been waiting for a month or two to get out... life is busy with an 18 month old.

Last couple of weeks have had days that were By Gawd windy! It would have been perfect!

I'm don't plan to shut down any time soon, so when ever you're ready. Bring the Partitions, we'll launch them way down range also.

Whatchoo laughin at, fool!

Y'all are a bunch of coarse non caring baffoons that have once again hurt a new users feelings and forced him to fleeTHF.

Had to happen I suppose.

Can't please all the people all the time.

Things are not always as they appear.
Y'all behave now. I'm going Turkey hunting.

I take offense at that. It's buffoons.

Sorry, shoulda checked with you first. An expert.

Just find it funny that anyone would defend the cheapest reloading equipment you can buy. Not only that but attempt to flame you in the process, you share and help here more than most...and that's because others don't want to deal with the know-it-alls that load up 20 .223 shells a year

Looking at it that way...no way you can't laugh. If that makes me an elitist or a JG follower then pencil me in

When either one of you are shooting groups better than mine made with Lee then I'll pay attention. You're not, so it's a non-starter.

Well, I don't really shoot groups sooo...

But I wouldn't step to Judd with that.

Not a very wise thing to say. Someone may take you to task and let you try to prove that.

I've been reloading since 1975, and have used RCBS, Redding, Forster, and started using Lee about 8 years ago. IME, RCBS customer service is stellar, having used them a few times due to broken decapping pins, bad seater, and a couple other minor things. Redding's CS the couple of times I've had to use it sucked, pitifully. I bought a new set of dies to find the decapping stem warped. My call to Redding resulted in a response of "our products have higher standards that that" line of BS, and that's when I started using some Lee stuff. It's worked out great since using the neck sizing collet die and Lee seater, runout has drastically improved, case life has improved, and groups have shrunken as well. Nothing bad to say about Lee, yet anyway.

The RCBS Chargemaster is fantastic piece of equipment.

Is this challenge limited to just JG and Judd?

I would be willing to take on your "groups".

What would be the rules? Benchrest? F Class? Tactical?
I'm not too familiar with practical matches but I'm a quick learner.

*If you want to shoot Palma I will need to borrow a rifle from someone. I don't have a .308 and my .223 is set up for coyote hunting

*** If you want to shoot high power I will have to borrow a rifle also.
Whatever you pick I will load all of the ammunition myself and use only Redding, RCBS or Wilson dies.

Sorry that I keep editing my post guys. I started this at work and was busy and pressed for time.

p.s. If anyone knows of of a different shooting format shot me a pm. I'm game to try anything and no matter what the competition format I promise to roll my own ammunition.

Ooooohhhh this is getting goooood!!!

When you guys come up with a .0 load then you'll have me beat.

Just regular bench rest at 100 would be fine. I only made the assertion the hate for Lee is unfounded since I produce better loads with them than most people can with "better" brands.

I actually may sign up for a class like JG's soon. Always need work.

I really don't see the hype about RCBS dies. Their seating die doesn't really adjust seating depth as accurate as Lee. You have to somehow manage to hold the stem in place with a screw driver while hoping you don't accidentally turn the shaft anyways with the wrench. A simple twist of a knob works better. I have Hornady, RCBS, and Lee dies. Of the three, RCBS is my least favorite to use, but I don't notice any better quality between the brands.

You are describing the RCBS completion dies. Adjust your seating depth with a built in micrometer. Record your setting. Duplicate at will.

Y'all are talking tools fellas. Better tools just work better. Buy the best tools you can afford.

My Gawd that's funny!

I have a range that would be perfect. Just bring a rest and I'll provide everything else we need.
I'm in southern OK about an hour NE of Wichita Falls and two hours N of Ft. Worth. If you want, after the 100 yd match I can have steel set up and we can shoot to 1400 yds. The targets are fanned out from 10 o'clock to 3 o'clock so the wind is different for each yardage.

As far as any brand war that might be going on I really don't have a preference. I guess I like the manufacturers I use for the same reason I love ribeye steaks and dislike chicken.

I want come...

I'm in too Ritter, I'll take one step further because there's a catch...tenyearsmouth has to put up $100 (I'll match it) and best 5 five shot group aggregate average wins pot. Ritter supplies the range and we'll supply the pot. The gun I'm shooting doesn't get fired unless there's money on the line.

I honestly don't know what my guns will do at 100y because I never shoot them that close. But anyone who rattles off being able to shoot 0's consistently is talking out of their [censored]. Here is results from benchrest matches across the country and smallest aggragate was .148. http://www.kelbly.com/docs/match-data/2015-6-16/2014Winners(US)shortrange.pdf

I ain't shooting against Judd at a 100 yard groups...

Wanna move, change targets, change distances, change wind angles and I'm in.

Tenyears, the balls in your court. Judd and I will shoot against you for smallest group. I'll even put up $100 too.
Here's a picture of my best group with my 243

And here's one of the best groups with the 6.5x47

If I need to shoot better than that I can show up with a heavy varmint bench rifle.

Well, on second thought, I can hang with those groups.

Are those both groups at 200?

The first one shot with the 243 was at 100 yard.

Love the internet purse swinging.

I post one thing and all of a sudden it's turned into I somehow stated I'm a better all around shot than everyone with people wanting to challenge me to all kinds of crazy shooting. It's really funny.

And no, I'm not digging a hole. I really did only state that my Lee dies can produce microscopic groups just like the high dollar ones.

You folks think I'm some kind of pompous jerk, when in reality I'd probably bombard you with questions about technique. I'm actually glad Ritter uses 5 shot groups. I think it's a better measurement than 3 shot groups. You guys are probably really going to hate that my groups are shot with AR's and not high dollar bolt guns.

It's all in good fun, no need to get ruffled feathers. It would just be a fun day of shooting. But lots of us would like to see zeroes come out of any gas gun. There's a good reason I can go to a match with 100 rifles, and one or two are gas guns.

Don't worry about it.

The only way I know how to shoot tiny groups is with a very accurate rifle and optics combination using carefully assembled ammo.

I'm not sure if I could get a .0 out of a gas gun. I really don't get all that precise with every aspect of hand loading because it doesn't interest me. I'm not really sure if trimming or switching brands of primers really equates better groups. I've heard the theories but am just not convinced for such a small measurement. The only time I've seen primers make a big difference was switching to SRM primers for my 6.8 loads instead of SR primers.

I fall in this category. I use a lot of Lee equipment and half my dies are Lee and half are RCBS. I don't shoot long range target. I reloading for hunting and practice. I don't sort my bullets by weight, weigh each charge, etc... I buy mostly seconds from Shooters pro-shop or close outs. Most the bullets I shoot are hunting bullets and not match. I can get MOA or less most of the time which is good enough for me as a hunter and recreational shooter. I learned on Lee equipment and I never felt the need to switch. Many of the cartridges I own are hunting cartridges and not meant for long range shooting like the 257R, 338 Federal, 350 Rem Mag and 9.3x62. I'm able to reload most of my cartridges for at least 1/2 the cost of buying loaded ammo.

I get people like to bash Lee but it's good for a lot of people like me.

But don't you shoot one hole 15 round groups at 3269 yards?

Interesting read. Ya'll sure got a lot of mileage out of a broken decapping pin worth $3.

I use Lee Collet Dies some, but not all the time. My pistol dies are all Lee. I have no plans to buy Lee rifle dies, other than the Collet Dies.

And...if I could shoot 0 sized groups (with more than 1 bullet), I'd pony up my $100 and drive to the agreed upon spot. I might, if the bets get placed and the shoot is on, drive up and watch. Get me some beer. Box of Kleenex for the losers. Good sammich or two. Some chips. Might be fun.

I was thinking the same - many, many responses ago.

A competition going down is deserving of a fresh post.

It took me a while until I got perspective.

Interesting stuff here. I have and use all colors of reloading gear except blue.

I have a pretty good understanding of the business processes and Ritter pretty well nailed it when he said that the price of customer service is reflected in the purchase price of the product. But, no matter what, neither Lee or any other company needs a thread like this.

Yesterday, I dropped a pair of HF pliers on my steel welding table and they broke. I'm not all that surprised and I doubt that they would be.

I'm reminded of something I once heard. "If you want good clean oats, you have to pay a fair price. If you can be satisfied with those that have already been through the horse; that comes a little cheaper.".