280ai 168 VLD or 160 Partition for Axis?

I'm looking to do an axis hunt this spring with 280 Ackley -- with a 25" tube I'm getting about 2850 with the VLD and 2950 with the Partitions. Shots would be inside 300 yds but could be as close as 50 yds. Any recs on which bullet would be best? I've heard of VLD not doing well at close range?

That's a hard choice. The Partition is a proven bullet for good expansion and penetration. At the speeds of the VLD, you should also get good penetration and some bullet fragmentation. The Partition should penetrate deeper, but the VLD should cause more damage. Another good option would be a good bonded bullet, like the Accubond or LR Accubond. Either way, I think you are on the right path.

Inside 300 yards, unless you're getting much greater accuracy with the VLD, I'd go with the Partition.

Vld is more than enough imo. Axis arent that hardy. Only thing i use a partition for is my 223. I forgot who but someone posted how well the amax is killing quickly and efficiently. Ill get flamed for this but where i like to shoot i use a lot of match bullets and ballistic tips. Never had an animal run on me using those.

The only advantage the VLD has is a better BC. inside 300 yds, that means nothing. I'd go with the always reliable and proven Partition.

Exactly my thinking on it.

Some people have good reports on Bergers. Some don't. Ever heard of a Partition failing?

Thanks guys. The gun is relatively new and I'm still playing with diff loads. Waiting for my suppressor before I get it to Chad for load dev. So far it likes everything -- factory 140 NAB, 150 LRAB, and it absolutely loves the 168 VLDs I got from a small ammo shop on the interweb. Have DOPE for those out to 800 yds and spanked a few does and hogs at 300+ yds in December. Bang-flop. But I've heard that at very close ranges the VLD will pin hole if bone isn't hit.

Go with what is most accurate in your rifle. Accuracy kills!

If you can comfortably put either in the vitals I would go the partition every time.

Bullets that explode put lots of led fragments into you food.

I've heard that they blow up if pushed too fast and hit up close. I think the pencil holes may be caused by the open tip being damaged and closing up, keeping the bullet from expanding. Bergers seem to have their place, and when people use them outside of their ideal window, they get less than ideal results, just like any other bullet. Where they shine is extended ranges. Where the Partition shines is more traditional ranges. That's why I would recommend them for what you're asking. At your velocities, and within the Berger's limitations, I doubt you would have any issues. I just feel like the Partition has fewer limitations inside of 300 yards.

got a coin?

Thanks sneaky. That's exactly what I am looking for.

Yes the bergers worked great for me as they are intended to do at the extended ranged but I haven't shot anything with them at closer ranges. Obviously, I gotta do my part and put it where it's supposed to go, but I'd hate to make a risky shot (long or short) and not have it perform as intended.

I have shot things near (10 yards) and far well 500+ yards with both. The rest of the Bergers in the reloading rack will be used for punching paper, busting rocks, ringing steel.... you get the idea. On game performance I like the Nosler Partitions better, never had one fail to do its job. Like John Wooters once wrote "use a partition and the animals will to escape goes out the other side".

Accubonds and Siroccos are other good choices for on game performance from my experience.

I vote partition or accubond.. Axis are hardy animals!

Either bullet will be fine at those ranges and velocity.

I have taken deer, hogs, antelope and the occasional coyote using the 7mm VLD with a muzzle velocity of 3150 as close as 80 yards and all the way to 600+ yards and have never had the bullet blow up or fail to expand. As a matter of fact I have never had a Partion, Accubond or Game King ever fail to perform as designed as long as I put the bullet were I was supposed to but I still prefer VLDs

If you're already liking the 168 then stick with it. It will do fine and no need to second guess.
Axis are tougher than wt

Don't over think it

^^This^^

Tell me I'm going on a _______ hunt and I'm taking my 7 Rem Mag. I will bring the hand-loads I have always ran with 180 VLDs. Hit a bull elk right in the vitals at 200 yards. One shot, done. Evidently the VLD worked, he died quickly. Also hit a mule deer buck at 50 yards. He died very quickly, too, with massive blood loss. So for anyone to say they're unreliable at close range, I can't go with em on that.

Wondered how long it'd take you to chime in!

When I was about thirteen I decided to try my hand at making a fishing lure. I tied some feathers from my pillow to a rather small, shiny brass treble hook and took it down to the water and proceeded to catch fish after fish. After twenty or thirty I noticed the feather was no longer even on the hook yet I continued to catch fish all day long. Conclusion: a bare brass treble hook is the best fishing lure out there.

Dang sure is when it's working!

At least I'm reliable.

Well lookee there---caught another'n!

Lol

.284 150gr Partion, 150yards



Out of a 7RM and more like 3200 fps (61gr of imr4350), but I doubt they'll be able to tell the 300 FPS difference

"7RM and more like 3200 fps (61gr of imr4350)"

Just curious, have you chronographed that load? 3200 sounds a little optimistic

62.1 gr, not 61 -- sorry about that.

Of those choices I'd go Partition for peace of mind. Last summer I shot mine with 180 Ballistic Tip from a 338 Federal. Muzzle velocity was 2700 fps. I had no concerns because 338 Ballistic tips are very stout. Range was 150 yards, bang flop.

Nice buck!

For the same reason I would choose a berger for 1000 yard shooting I would choose a partition for sub 300 yard hunting. Berger is built with one thing in mind accuracy and hi bc. Partition is also built with one thing in mind reliably killing stuff.

Berger will disagree with that statement. So will scores of hunter that have had fast ethical kills at all ranges, including short range. I know the Partition does what it is advertised to do. I also know Berger does what it is advertised to do. In both bullet's case I trust more the reported results of hunters more so than the manufacturer's claims. I've never used a Partition but I know it will do its' job because of guys like you.

I bet you could ring a 1000 yard steel with a partition too, doesn't mean it would be my choice. Not saying a berger wont kill deer, but out of the two berger and partition for a relatively short range hunt I would pick the best bullet for the task which to me is easily the partition in this instance.

No matter where you hit that axis with a partition its going to penetrate expand and exit that is why I shoot them at deer. I have a growing supply of hpbt's, and smk's and going to delve into bergers also now that long range shooting has peaked my interest, but when im going hunting ill be reaching for old reliable.

OK, so I trust your experience with Partitions but you won't trust others experience with Bergers.

Got it.

I've gotten consistent exits with Berger 105s at ranges as close as 60yds running 3100fps.

I trust they will kill. Seems like you are the one who thinks that a berger or smk etc. is the only bullet viable to shoot not me the partition. I feel they both have their place and would like to use the one best suited for the task at hand.

If he asked for a 700 yard hunting bullet or a cross over long range plinking/hunting round I could see it as a suggestion, but he specifically asked about short range hunting. Seems to me the only reason you would suggest the berger is you have an agenda to push.

My agenda, in this case, is a shooter that has a proven sub MOA load, that happens to be with a Berger. He has shot it on my range and can hit anything he wants when ever he wants. He asked if it was worth starting over with load development (which by the way he has to hire Chad or myself to do), or just sticking with the proven load. My recommendation is to stick with the proven load. Then we get folks, such as yourself making him doubt the Berger can even kill anything. Had the proven load been with a Nosler Partition, I would recommend using the Nosler Partition only because it is already the proven load.

And it is nonsense to suggest that all I want to use is a Berger or a SMK. I have one single rifle that shoots Bergers. The rest shoot something else. I've shot thousands of SGKs, and A-maxes. Hundreds of SSTs, and will soon try some Accubonds.

Don't make statements, based on incomplete information, and pass them along as facts.

If he's not a reloader, I would use the Berger and be very confident. The Partition is fail proof but not worth the hassle of trying to find a load by Spring through a 3rd party. If you reload, tinkering is part of the fun for a big hunt.

The OP says he has a load making 2950 fps with the partition...

Maybe I'm mistaken, but I have not seen results of how consistent the Parts shoot in Spencer's rifle. I've only seen him use the VLDs. Will either work on impact? Again, I say yes. I personally would go with the most consistent load, since we're talking hunting bullet against hunting bullet. Not hunting bullet against target bullet.

All right fellas, cool your engines....yes, my gun shoots the VLDs well and I have had success at extended ranges with them so far. I guess a better question would have been, "For those with experience using VLDs on game, is there a distance at which I should be concerned about shallow penetration from surface blowup or pencil hole performance that would necessitate me switching to a partition or a bonded bullet?"

No concern. Myself and dee have shared that.

Mule deer I killed at 50 yards died of hypovolemia in 5 seconds. The scene looked like a violent murder with a huge puddle of arterial blood under him.

Have seen very impressive results an not so impressive results with the VLDs from a 6.5X284 MV of 2912 average. My shots have been 20 to about 250 yards with that combination. One on an elk some shoulder meat hit and bullet didn't enter rib cage other than small piece, follow up shot was with a 130gr Accubond at 2950fps and it did much better. Large boar hog quartering toward me slightly, shoulder shot from 150 yards, it killed him but he ran over 200 yards after what looked like a very good hit, saw impact through the scope. Whitetail doe shot through the ribs broadside 140gr VLD drt with about a 4 inch exit, another shot facing me from over 100 yards one lung missing top portion after exit from last rib to han 6 inch tall hole was foot ball shaped and larger than a foot ball, she still ran over 100 yards with guts hanging out, so have had mixed results IMO, more so than Have had with Partitions or accubonds which is why the rest of the VLDs will be used on targets.

And that's another reason I wouldn't recommend vld's and the like. I never want to see a 6" bullet hole in something I am planning to clean and prepare for my family to eat.

I think what we have here is a longstanding failure to communicate. We're operating with different definitions of proper bullet performance.

Make mine a Partition or Accubond, please.

I've killed 5 deer (mulie, axis and whitetails) and an Aoudad in recent years with the 168 VLD running a smidge over 3000fps.
Ranges have been 27 yards to 243 yards. All one shot affairs and all dead critters.
Have also used the 105 and 190 in appropriate chamberings out past 450 yards on antelope, elk, and coyotes. Same results.
Dead critters and excellent terminal performance. I like and trust Bergers.
I can also vouch for ballistic tips, Amax, accubonds and TTSX in various chamberings. They have all killed for me with aplomb. I don't think I've ever shot a partition on purpose so I will defer any opinion on that bullet to those who have used it.

Either bullet the OP decides to use in the 280 chambering will melt any deer assuming proper shot placement. We all know this.

Sho nuff.

Jason is right. He's always right!

Awesome!