Texas Hunting Forum
243 bullets
Posted By: Sirrah243
243 bullets - 12/29/14 11:49 PM
I have been loading 243 win for a few years now. I started out using Sierra 100 SP and they performed well the first couple of year and then I noticed that the exit wounds on deer where small and left very little blood to trail.The only thing I can figure is that Sierra started producing bullets with harder lead. I don't know the reason but they just didn't perform the same. I was fortunate because all the deer fell within 20 yards of where they were shot. But still I didn't want to leave anything to chance so I did some research and decided to switch to Sierra 85 gr BTHP. They had a good reputation for performance from what I had read.
My wife shot a fairly large buck this weekend and there was no blood trail at all. she made a good shot right behind the left shoulder exiting through the right shoulder and the entrance and exit were the same size. Luckily, like the other he ran about 20 yards and fell.
I think I'm going to switch to Hornady.
Posted By: Wburke2010
Re: 243 bullets - 12/29/14 11:52 PM
What rifle and twist rate do you have?
walter
Posted By: kmon11
Re: 243 bullets - 12/30/14 12:34 AM
In a 243 the Nosler Partition is hard to beat 65+ years and it is still the standard that premium bullets are compared to for a reason. Want to go higher tech get some Nosler Accubonds.
Posted By: Jhop
Re: 243 bullets - 12/30/14 12:41 AM
Heck, if the deer are not running more than 20 yards, I'd say the bullets are working just fine. I've killed lots of pigs with Sierra's 85gr BTHP.
Posted By: Deans
Re: 243 bullets - 12/30/14 02:11 AM
Might give the 95gr Nosler BT a try.
Posted By: Sirrah243
Re: 243 bullets - 12/30/14 12:44 PM
wburke I'm shooting a Rem 700 1 in 9 and a Rem 600 mohawk and I believe it's 1 in 10
Posted By: dee
Re: 243 bullets - 12/30/14 12:50 PM
I run 90gr Accubonds in a 600 Mohawk. Haven't shot much besides pigs and didn't care to dig too deep in the performance besides it exited the other side of the head.
Posted By: Sirrah243
Re: 243 bullets - 12/30/14 04:14 PM
How do you like that 600? I've really come to like mine.
Posted By: dee
Re: 243 bullets - 12/30/14 04:42 PM
One of my favorites and will never leave the family.
Posted By: Wburke2010
Re: 243 bullets - 12/30/14 04:57 PM
I would get some 90 grain bergers and give those a try, but like said above if they are dying in 20 yards I wouldn't change a thing...
Walter
Posted By: ckat
Re: 243 bullets - 12/30/14 08:58 PM
Heck, if the deer are not running more than 20 yards, I'd say the bullets are working just fine. I've killed lots of pigs with Sierra's 85gr BTHP.
^^^This. I have had great luck with the 85gr GameKings in my 6x45 on deer and pigs. I use the 95gr Nosler BTs and 100gr Sierra ProHunters in my 243, also with great results.
I like a good blood trail as much as anyone; but if an animal goes 20 yards or less before dying, it is really a non-issue... The bullet has done its job.
Posted By: poisonivie
Re: 243 bullets - 12/30/14 09:02 PM
I always figured the chest cavity had to fill with blood to the level of the hole before it would run out. I don't think it would fill in 20 yds.
Posted By: Sirrah243
Re: 243 bullets - 12/30/14 11:46 PM
I've been lucky so far because they have all been found within 20 yards but a less than perfect shot and I might not be so fortunate. I believe that a hollow point should expand and create an exit that is larger than the entrance.
Posted By: postoak
Re: 243 bullets - 12/31/14 12:09 AM
I've been lucky so far because they have all been found within 20 yards but a less than perfect shot and I might not be so fortunate. I believe that a hollow point should expand and create an exit that is larger than the entrance.
I think you are right. It might be interesting to write Sierra and see what they think is going on.
80gr TTSX.
I stopped using GK after I had one blow up on impact.
80gr TTSX is the perfect pill of the speed of the 243
Posted By: IDoc
Re: 243 bullets - 12/31/14 01:07 AM
I shoot 85 grain barnes tsx in my 6mm Remington. Devastating bullet and sure to get an exit.
Posted By: syncerus
Re: 243 bullets - 12/31/14 01:21 AM
I too have moved to an 80 grain mono metal bullet. If they'll shoot well in your rifle the 80-85 grain metal bullets are amazing. Really.
Posted By: ckat
Re: 243 bullets - 12/31/14 01:46 AM
I've been lucky so far because they have all been found within 20 yards but a less than perfect shot and I might not be so fortunate. I believe that a hollow point should expand and create an exit that is larger than the entrance.
Keep in mind that the Sierra is in their GameKing line... It is not an explosive varmint-type HP, it is a heavy-jacketed bullet designed to penetrate big game. Just a thought. My experience with them has been exit wounds about 2-4x the entrance with a quick death.
Posted By: littlebass
Re: 243 bullets - 12/31/14 01:48 AM
I have had very good luck with my 243 handloads using Sierra 85gr HPBT on game. The 2 deer, 7 pigs, and coyote that I've taken since Nov 1st didn't like em a bit. None of them took a step. I use 35gr imr4064 and only push the HPBT about 2900fps. I really think keeping this bullet under 3000fps is the key to it's performance. It's a ragged holer in my rifle and on game.
Posted By: JJH
Re: 243 bullets - 12/31/14 02:46 AM
I've been lucky so far because they have all been found within 20 yards but a less than perfect shot and I might not be so fortunate. I believe that a hollow point should expand and create an exit that is larger than the entrance.
Keep in mind that the Sierra is in their GameKing line... It is not an explosive varmint-type HP, it is a heavy-jacketed bullet designed to penetrate big game. Just a thought. My experience with them has been exit wounds about 2-4x the entrance with a quick death.
FWIW, the Sierra manual says that despite its GameKing moniker, the 243 85gr HPBT is intended for varminting.
Posted By: vanguard
Re: 243 bullets - 12/31/14 04:19 PM
FWIW, the Sierra manual says that despite its GameKing moniker, the 243 85gr HPBT is intended for varminting.
yes but it also states its a deer boolit as well.
straight from there web site.
For rifles chambered in 6mm cartridges, the #1530 85 grain hollow point boat tail bullet has proven to be highly effective on medium game, such as deer and antelope, and it is outstanding in this application. It is one of the best all-around bullets for rifles chambered in 6mm Remington or 243 Winchester. It is one of the most recommended bullets for varmints such as prairie dogs, groundhogs, coyotes, to medium game such as deer and antelope. Shooters using any rifle in the entire range of 6mm cartridges will find this to be an excellent bullet. This bullet shoots like a MatchKing and expands like a hunting bullet.
back to the op question. the lack of blood trails is just due to the small caliber. 243 for the most part doesnt leave big holes, sometimes they can for the most part they dont, but that doesnt mean its ineffective , insides are usually mush.. any sp bullet is all you need in a 243 and actually preferred over harder booolits, anything harder expect smaller holes and less internal damage.
Posted By: papa45
Re: 243 bullets - 12/31/14 07:51 PM
I have used 95 gr Nosler Partitions on deer, hogs and coyotes for 8 or 9 years now and have been very pleased with their performance.
Adding on to Vanguard's reply, above: I shot a medium-sized buck last week with a high shoulder shot. He went about 20 yards and rolled over. I found only a tiny exit hole and not a single drop of blood, which seemed strange. Neither shoulder was broken, but the lungs were total mush. Not typical, but it worked!
Posted By: Rocklock
Re: 243 bullets - 12/31/14 10:13 PM
30+ years using 100 gr Partitions in Rem 600 - if it ain't broke don't fix it.
TC
Posted By: Strongbad
Re: 243 bullets - 12/31/14 11:14 PM
I run the 95 gr. Hornady SST's in two different 243's. Those things are insanely effective at reasonable velocities. My two carbines run about 2800 at the muzzle and they consistently drop deer on the spot. It's uncanny just how well they do.
Posted By: JJH
Re: 243 bullets - 12/31/14 11:15 PM
FWIW, the Sierra manual says that despite its GameKing moniker, the 243 85gr HPBT is intended for varminting.
yes but it also states its a deer boolit as well.
straight from there web site.
For rifles chambered in 6mm cartridges, the #1530 85 grain hollow point boat tail bullet has proven to be highly effective on medium game, such as deer and antelope, and it is outstanding in this application. It is one of the best all-around bullets for rifles chambered in 6mm Remington or 243 Winchester. It is one of the most recommended bullets for varmints such as prairie dogs, groundhogs, coyotes, to medium game such as deer and antelope. Shooters using any rifle in the entire range of 6mm cartridges will find this to be an excellent bullet. This bullet shoots like a MatchKing and expands like a hunting bullet.
back to the op question. the lack of blood trails is just due to the small caliber. 243 for the most part doesnt leave big holes, sometimes they can for the most part they dont, but that doesnt mean its ineffective , insides are usually mush.. any sp bullet is all you need in a 243 and actually preferred over harder booolits, anything harder expect smaller holes and less internal damage.
We can each draw our own conclusions. it's clear Sierra didn't design the bullet with a thicker jacket and harder core than their GameKing Spitzer Boat Tails (as they did with the heavier HPBTs). But I'm sure they still work fine on our smallish Texas whitetails on lung shots. But I would prefer a different design for hunting where a quartering or shoulder shot might be required.
I shoot the 95 gr. Berger classic hunter out of my Remington 700.
IMR 4831 Powder
CCI Primers
.05 off ogive
Shooting half inch groups if I do my job. The doe I shot with it at 120 yards dropped in her tracks, pencil entrance hole and baseball exit hole. Shot placement was base of the neck/brisket area. Hopefully I will get to shoot another deer this season with it.
Posted By: Jhop
Re: 243 bullets - 01/01/15 12:15 AM
I've had plenty of Sierra's 85gr HPBT's go thru both lungs and ribs with an exit hole on pigs. Some well over two hundred pounds too. Dropped a few big South Dakota deer with double lung shots too. It's enough bullet and cost effective too. I've also had it fail to exit on some big boars too. In those cases I'd find it in the shield/fatty area on the opposite side. Most of the copper jacket and lead core is kinda together but destroyed. Still dropped the pigs, some might stumble 10-20 but most just drop right there.
Posted By: vanguard
Re: 243 bullets - 01/01/15 07:36 AM
FWIW, the Sierra manual says that despite its GameKing moniker, the 243 85gr HPBT is intended for varminting.
yes but it also states its a deer boolit as well.
straight from there web site.
For rifles chambered in 6mm cartridges, the #1530 85 grain hollow point boat tail bullet has proven to be highly effective on medium game, such as deer and antelope, and it is outstanding in this application. It is one of the best all-around bullets for rifles chambered in 6mm Remington or 243 Winchester. It is one of the most recommended bullets for varmints such as prairie dogs, groundhogs, coyotes, to medium game such as deer and antelope. Shooters using any rifle in the entire range of 6mm cartridges will find this to be an excellent bullet. This bullet shoots like a MatchKing and expands like a hunting bullet.
back to the op question. the lack of blood trails is just due to the small caliber. 243 for the most part doesnt leave big holes, sometimes they can for the most part they dont, but that doesnt mean its ineffective , insides are usually mush.. any sp bullet is all you need in a 243 and actually preferred over harder booolits, anything harder expect smaller holes and less internal damage.
We can each draw our own conclusions. it's clear Sierra didn't design the bullet with a thicker jacket and harder core than their GameKing Spitzer Boat Tails (as they did with the heavier HPBTs). But I'm sure they still work fine on our smallish Texas whitetails on lung shots. But I would prefer a different design for hunting where a quartering or shoulder shot might be required.
really ? its like talking to a 4 year old
Posted By: JJH
Re: 243 bullets - 01/01/15 02:01 PM
Really? Well that would explain why it's over your head.
Posted By: vanguard
Re: 243 bullets - 01/01/15 04:10 PM
ya deer shoulders are made of steel and phone books stacked 3 deep, only a 45-70 is adequate.
you go and claim its a varmint boolit i prove you wrong but now because it DOESNT have a THICKER jacket than a spitzer its still not adequate. you and i have no clue how thick the jacket even is, untill you cut one in half or show me something that says its a frangible bullet ill take sierras word over yours as to what this bullet is for.
Posted By: JJH
Re: 243 bullets - 01/01/15 05:58 PM
Ok, since you're taking Sierra's word, here it is:
Sierra Reloading Manual #4, page 75:
"...These Sierra rifle bullets (the HPBTs) are constructed with a heavy jacket and a hard core to provide deep penetration and reliable performance big game hunters require. Sierra HPBT GameKing bullets for big game are available in 257, 277, 284 and 308 calibers. We also produce 224 diameter 55gr, 243 diameter 85grain and 257 90grain HPBTs which, despite their GameKing nomenclature, ARE INTENDED FOR VARMINTING."
Now, in addition, I have seen several instances, where 100gr Sierra 243 bullets, (which were clearly designed for deer and not varmints) did not make it into the vitals of deer.
My conclusion is that there are better bullets for use in a 243 for deer, than the 85gr Sierra HPBT. I am aware that many use them and are happy with them. And based on my observations of other varmint bullets used on deer, I'm confident, that under the right conditions, they would work fine. But conditions are not always just right.
That is the basis of my conclusion. As stated, YMMV and you may have reached a different conclusion.
Now chill out, relax, it's a new year.
Posted By: vanguard
Re: 243 bullets - 01/01/15 06:37 PM
confusing they say two different things about the same bullet, what year edition is that book?
i and a few others have used the 243 for about 40 years, many many many deer and hogs in those years have fallen, and i have never seen a bullet not reach the vitals. on the contrary i have seen very few not pass through.
there was an article few years back about the 85gr hpbt and the 243, author touted it as the ultimate deer cartridge claimed it to be the best drop em in there tracks rifle out there over any caliber.
I used it in the past nothing extra ordinary about it , accuracy was great.
Ok, since you're taking Sierra's word, here it is:
Sierra Reloading Manual #4, page 75:
"...These Sierra rifle bullets (the HPBTs) are constructed with a heavy jacket and a hard core to provide deep penetration and reliable performance big game hunters require. Sierra HPBT GameKing bullets for big game are available in 257, 277, 284 and 308 calibers. We also produce 224 diameter 55gr, 243 diameter 85grain and 257 90grain HPBTs which, despite their GameKing nomenclature, ARE INTENDED FOR VARMINTING."
Now, in addition, I have seen several instances, where 100gr Sierra 243 bullets, (which were clearly designed for deer and not varmints) did not make it into the vitals of deer.
My conclusion is that there are better bullets for use in a 243 for deer, than the 85gr Sierra HPBT. I am aware that many use them and are happy with them. And based on my observations of other varmint bullets used on deer, I'm confident, that under the right conditions, they would work fine. But conditions are not always just right.
That is the basis of my conclusion. As stated, YMMV and you may have reached a different conclusion.
Now chill out, relax, it's a new year.
I just to love the 85 and 100gr GK When PMC use to load them. Then I got to chase a deer down.
243 is boarder line to fast for those bullets IMO
Posted By: ckat
Re: 243 bullets - 01/01/15 08:56 PM
You may be on to something there, BOBO. My results with the 85gr HPBT have been out of my 6x45 at 2705 FPS 10 feet off of the muzzle. My 243s run the 95gr NBTs at around 3100 FPS.
Posted By: dee
Re: 243 bullets - 01/01/15 09:51 PM
Velocity is a killer of cup and core bullets especially of the light weight variety.
Posted By: dee
Re: 243 bullets - 01/01/15 10:52 PM
Here is a picture of the bullet description from the 5th edition manual.
Posted By: ckat
Re: 243 bullets - 01/01/15 11:14 PM
dee - The bullet that I am speaking of is neither of those listed in your photo, but Sierra's #1530.
https://www.sierrabullets.com/store/product.cfm/sn/1530/243-dia-6mm--85-gr-HPBT"6mm .243 Caliber (.243) 85 gr. HPBT
For rifles chambered in 6mm cartridges, the #1530 85 grain hollow point boat tail bullet has proven to be highly effective on medium game, such as deer and antelope, and it is outstanding in this application. It is one of the best all-around bullets for rifles chambered in 6mm Remington or 243 Winchester. It is one of the most recommended bullets for varmints such as prairie dogs, groundhogs, coyotes, to medium game such as deer and antelope. Shooters using any rifle in the entire range of 6mm cartridges will find this to be an excellent bullet. This bullet shoots like a MatchKing and expands like a hunting bullet.
In handguns, the 85 grain #1530 Hollow Point Boat Tail bullet is nearly ideal for all shooting applications. In cartridges from the 6mm BR up to the larger wildcats chambered in the Remington XP-100 and other strong single-shot handguns, this may be the best single bullet. When used with smaller-capacity cases at close range it would be suitable for varmints. This is a fairly "hard" bullet when fired from a handgun but a good choice for most applications and conditions."
Posted By: Jhop
Re: 243 bullets - 01/01/15 11:16 PM
Sierra makes a 1520 and a 1530 number bullet. I'd have to agree with Sierra description on page 72 and 73 of the 5th eddition manual for the 1530. While I'm shooting them at 2995 fps measured 15 feet from the muzzle, I'm not shooting very close. Most of my shot's are 150-250 yards. A number at 300 plus yards. I'd say the bullet has loss enough speed to hold together and penetrate very good. I've only shot a couple pigs at close range all of them in the head/neck area of the ear. No exit holes on them but the pigs are dead right there. I'm pretty sure just about any bullet or caliber would have killed them at less than a 100 yards anyway. Bottom line if it's a pig I'll take the shot at any range and angle. On deer I'll wait for a good shot no matter what caliber I'm using.
Posted By: dee
Re: 243 bullets - 01/01/15 11:39 PM
My mistake here's the 1530 description, which is very similar.
Posted By: vanguard
Re: 243 bullets - 01/01/15 11:40 PM
I just to love the 85 and 100gr GK When PMC use to load them. Then I got to chase a deer down.
243 is boarder line to fast for those bullets IMO
243 is hardly a speed demon . cup and core boooolits are designed for impact velocites in the 2200-2900 range in the deer variety any way. bout on par with the 243. seen many deer killed with the 250 with 55 grs of cup and core lead at 3500fps.
seen the 243 with a 55 gr bt at 4k fps pencil straight through a buck, insides were liquified.
Posted By: vanguard
Re: 243 bullets - 01/01/15 11:53 PM
My mistake here's the 1530 description, which is very similar.
looks like sierra has changed their mind on the hpbt from shoots like a match king and expands like a varminter to shoots like a matchking and expands like a hunting bullet. the web site is different than the book and a new book woul eventually read like the web page
I just to love the 85 and 100gr GK When PMC use to load them. Then I got to chase a deer down.
243 is boarder line to fast for those bullets IMO
243 is hardly a speed demon . cup and core boooolits are designed for impact velocites in the 2200-2900 range in the deer variety any way. bout on par with the 243. seen many deer killed with the 250 with 55 grs of cup and core lead at 3500fps.
seen the 243 with a 55 gr bt at 4k fps pencil straight through a buck, insides were liquified.
I've killed deer with cup and core bullets pushing 4k in 22cal and 25 cal doesn't mean it's the best bullet for the job. No way a 55gr BT pushing 4k penciled through a deer unless it was well over 400 yards away.
And yes the 243 and 6mm can be hot rounds. 80gr bullets at almost 3400ft/s is a hot round. Apparently when you load 55gr BT's they are really hot. How can you say it's hardly a hot round and reference a 4k ft/s load in the 243??? Genius!!!!
Posted By: vanguard
Re: 243 bullets - 01/02/15 01:09 AM
cause you mentioned 100gr gk , and 85 gr . those will be running 2700 and 2900 fps at 100 yds in the 243. and you said the 243 was to fast for those bullets.
care to make a bet on the 55 gr pencil hole. my buddy,s young daughter made the shot
Posted By: Wburke2010
Re: 243 bullets - 01/02/15 01:13 AM
My 243 is running a 105 gr at 3050. the 243 is a very versatile cartridge than can run them fast or slow on a big range of bullets.
Walter
cause you mentioned 100gr gk , and 85 gr . those will be running 2700 and 2900 fps at 100 yds in the 243. and you said the 243 was to fast for those bullets.
care to make a bet on the 55 gr pencil hole. my buddy,s young daughter made the shot
The 80gr bullets I shoot are pushing 3400 feet at the muzzle and that's an OTC load.
I've had the GK explode on impact and not penetrate the vitals. I'd say that's evidence it's very borderline being to fast. I've done the same thing with VLD's in my 257wby. And those where only 3300 ft at the muzzle.
How does a 55gr varimit bullet stay intacted at 4k ft/s enough to pencil through a deer? Almost defies physics. Unless it had slowed down a lot before it got there. Or the core fused to jacket once it hit the speed of light.
It's ok I'm sure 55gr BT are designed to do that and mimic a monolithic bullet
Posted By: vanguard
Re: 243 bullets - 01/02/15 01:32 AM
cause you mentioned 100gr gk , and 85 gr . those will be running 2700 and 2900 fps at 100 yds in the 243. and you said the 243 was to fast for those bullets.
care to make a bet on the 55 gr pencil hole. my buddy,s young daughter made the shot
The 80gr bullets I shoot are pushing 3400 feet at the muzzle and that's an OTC load.
I've had the GK explode on impact and not penetrate the vitals. I'd say that's evidence it's very borderline being to fast. I've done the same thing with VLD's in my 257wby. And those where only 3300 ft at the muzzle.
How does a 55gr varimit bullet stay intacted at 4k ft/s enough to pencil through a deer? Almost defies physics. Unless it had slowed down a lot before it got there. Or the core fused to jacket once it hit the speed of light.
once again you said and i quote
I just to love the 85 and 100gr GK When PMC use to load them. Then I got to chase a deer down.
243 is boarder line to fast for those bullets IMO
now your talking 80 gr and 257 weatherby mag yada yada
let me say it again the 243 with 100 gr and 85 gr will be running 2700 fps and 2900 at 100 yds, these are what we call impact velocities and what we are concerned about when talking boooolit construction. that is not to fast for either of these bullets ok ?
Posted By: vanguard
Re: 243 bullets - 01/02/15 01:38 AM
its really funny to see you guys shooting magnums at 100 yds then complain about bullet construction, then go and get bonded booolits only to now make the same hole its non magnum brother did with a cup and core.
80gr in the 243 is the TTSX via Barnes vortx ammo which takes advantage of the 243 speed.
It's what I use now instead of the GK's. Apparently via this thread I'm not the only one that's had penetration issues with 85 or 100gr GK via the 243 speeds
I tossed in the 257wby because surely you wouldn't agrue it's not a fast caliber? But yet I've had cup and core bullets blow up on impact with it and that's at 3200 ft a second at the muzzle(not 3300 I miss spoke had to go back and check the box)grant it those are vld's and not GK but similar design none the less.
You keep rocking you slow 4k ft/s 55BT loads.
Funny every thing I have killed this year has been with 6.5 CM loads 2700-2800 fts at the muzzle. Well excluding my mulie that's was more like 200fts
It's funny federal lists their OTC ammo in 85gr SG loads at 3320, that's still 3000 fts at a 100yards
Heck, if the deer are not running more than 20 yards, I'd say the bullets are working just fine. I've killed lots of pigs with Sierra's 85gr BTHP.
We have used the 85 grain Federal Premium BTHP for about ten years now. I bought all of the old boxes that I cold find.
Seldom do we get an exit wound or a blood trail. We got a 200 pound axis buck and a 125 pound axis doe this weekend with them. The buck was a 100 yard neck shot, it shattered his spine into particles, drt. The doe was 125 yards heart-lung, she also was a dead drop. We have killed more deer than I can count with them, and we generally only see an exit wound with a blood trail on smaller animals (black buck and whitetail does).
Posted By: littlebass
Re: 243 bullets - 01/02/15 05:31 AM
I'm a little confused about some of the commentary here. I read numerous comments from folks (myself included) who have had good experience (actual personal experience) taking deer and other critters with the Sierra 85gr HPBT. I then read arguments from a few folks who have no personal experience with this exact bullet but are hell bent on telling everyone it's no good for killing deer size game based solely on something they read in a manual. Personally I couldn't really care less if anyone else likes to hunt with this bullet. Don't buy 'em and there will be more for me to buy and load. Do those of you who continue to argue against this bullet for deer have any specific real life experience where you have made an accurate shot on the vitals of a deer and the deer failed to perform as intended? If so I'd love to hear about it. Maybe I've been lucky with my experience this year using this bullet. Maybe I haven't been lucky. Maybe the bullet will actually make a quick kill on a whitetail deer if placed into the vitals. Neither of the deer I killed with this bullet this year had exit wounds. The doe dropped right where she stood and the buck took two or three steps, fell down, kicked for about 15 seconds, then expired. All 7 pigs, between 100-225 lbs, were shot behind the ear and dropped where they stood. They were all shot from the luxury of a blind where I had a good rest and was able to make that kind of shot. I honestly didn't pay that close attention to exit wounds on any of the pigs but I don't recall seeing any. It really didn't matter. They were all dead right there. The coyote had a small entrance and small exit, again dropped in his tracks but I realize we are discussing deer size game specifically. I don't suggest that this is the best bullet on earth for killing deer. Sure there are many others made that will do the job as well and some probably better for certain situations. That can be said for many "hunting" bullets in many calibers. The original post referred to the lack of an exit wound for blood trailing purposes but also mentioned that the deer only moved 20 yards before expiring. Looks like from my experience and others we can say that "no exit wound" is at least somewhat common with the 85HPBT. So what I'm reading repeatedly are accounts from hunters who use and are happy with the performance of this bullet based on successful personal experience... followed by arguments from folks who don't have any negative personal experiences but argue against the bullet anyways. Makes perfect sense.
Well I typed this then read where BOBO says that he had this bullet blow up on impact of a whitetail. Somehow I missed that before. That must've been kinda funny looking. What did the deer do? Walk/run off injured or unharmed? I've never had any kind of bullet "blow up" on impact and I do a lot of varmint hunting with small frangible bullets. How fast were you pushing that 85HPBT?
Posted By: dee
Re: 243 bullets - 01/02/15 01:55 PM
I'm a little confused about some of the commentary here. I read numerous comments from folks (myself included) who have had good experience (actual personal experience) taking deer and other critters with the Sierra 85gr HPBT. I then read arguments from a few folks who have no personal experience with this exact bullet but are hell bent on telling everyone it's no good for killing deer size game based solely on something they read in a manual. Personally I couldn't really care less if anyone else likes to hunt with this bullet. Don't buy 'em and there will be more for me to buy and load. Do those of you who continue to argue against this bullet for deer have any specific real life experience where you have made an accurate shot on the vitals of a deer and the deer failed to perform as intended? If so I'd love to hear about it. Maybe I've been lucky with my experience this year using this bullet. Maybe I haven't been lucky. Maybe the bullet will actually make a quick kill on a whitetail deer if placed into the vitals. Neither of the deer I killed with this bullet this year had exit wounds. The doe dropped right where she stood and the buck took two or three steps, fell down, kicked for about 15 seconds, then expired. All 7 pigs, between 100-225 lbs, were shot behind the ear and dropped where they stood. They were all shot from the luxury of a blind where I had a good rest and was able to make that kind of shot. I honestly didn't pay that close attention to exit wounds on any of the pigs but I don't recall seeing any. It really didn't matter. They were all dead right there. The coyote had a small entrance and small exit, again dropped in his tracks but I realize we are discussing deer size game specifically. I don't suggest that this is the best bullet on earth for killing deer. Sure there are many others made that will do the job as well and some probably better for certain situations. That can be said for many "hunting" bullets in many calibers. The original post referred to the lack of an exit wound for blood trailing purposes but also mentioned that the deer only moved 20 yards before expiring. Looks like from my experience and others we can say that "no exit wound" is at least somewhat common with the 85HPBT. So what I'm reading repeatedly are accounts from hunters who use and are happy with the performance of this bullet based on successful personal experience... followed by arguments from folks who don't have any negative personal experiences but argue against the bullet anyways. Makes perfect sense.
Well I typed this then read where BOBO says that he had this bullet blow up on impact of a whitetail. Somehow I missed that before. That must've been kinda funny looking. What did the deer do? Walk/run off injured or unharmed? I've never had any kind of bullet "blow up" on impact and I do a lot of varmint hunting with small frangible bullets. How fast were you pushing that 85HPBT?
I believe he said it was factory PMC.
Since we are on the 85gr BTHP. Does anyone know if there is a manufacturer that still uses them.
Below is the box specs on the ones I have used for many years with complete success, Federal discontinued them. The best I can figure is so they could jump on board the new "ballistic tip" terminology that everyone loves to hear. I am sure marketing to the tactical rage-age has something to do with it. They have the new "Vital-Shok" in an 85 grain with almost the same ballistics, I might just switch to that. (that might be the one that BOBO mentioned)
Posted By: vanguard
Re: 243 bullets - 01/02/15 04:10 PM
I've never had any kind of bullet "blow up" on impact and I do a lot of varmint hunting with small frangible bullets.
here on the internet its a common thing, so is seeing a deer with its jaw blown off. soon as you start talking bout head shots everyone will tell you how bad it is cause theyve seen a deer with its jaw blown off.
between me, my family and friends theres at least a 1000 years combined exp. in those 1000 years weve never had a bullet blow up upon impact nor seen a deer with its jaw blown off.
Posted By: JJH
Re: 243 bullets - 01/02/15 04:16 PM
littlebass: very good post. Since I am one of the offenders who has formed an opinion about the 85gr HPBT without having actually used it on deer, I hope you will permit me to explain.
My first post was simply in response to the gentleman who stated that the 85HPBT was a stouter bullet per Sierra. While that is true in general of Sierra's HPBTs, it is not true (per Sierra) of the 224s or the 243s.
I read, from this forum and others, that a lot of guys use the 85HPBT on deer and are happy with the results. I don't doubt that at all, and don't have a problem with them or you using that bullet if you are having success with it.
I do have experience using other bullets designed for varmints, on deer. And if I am culling does, and can wait for a broadside shot, my experience is that they are very effective.
But for general hunting, if I want to be ready for muy grande, who may not present a textbook body presentation, I want a bullet designed for deeper penetration.
Let me say, as a scientist and engineer, it is not always necessary to have empirical evidence to reach a conclusion. When I read Sierra's literature on this bullet, their earlier postings say that it was designed as a varmint bullet. Later postings say that it is "highly effective on deer and antelope as long as shots are carefully placed". Further, they say for handguns (read lower velocity than rifles), it is "nearly ideal".
Now, for comparison, look at what they say about the 85gr Spitzer, which they call the "Varminter": "suitable for small deer and antelope, but must be used with proper shot placement. In handguns, this bullet is to "hard" for use on field game because of limited velocities..." My read is that the 85gr Spitzer, designed for varmints, may be "Harder" than the 85HPBT.
Further, regarding their 100gr GameKing, Sierra mentions its "heavy double tapered jacket, and deep penetration". I do have experience with that bullet, and I am one who has had it "blow up" and not reach the vitals. I know this because the deer were recovered after follow up shots were required.
So my conclusion is that, I prefer a "harder" bullet that the Sierras for general purpose deer hunting, where I want to be able to take shots pretty much as they come, and not have to wait for a broadside presentation. I hunt deer primarily with 6mms and quarterbores. And I enjoy trying different cartridges and bullets. My experience is that there are plenty of bullets available that I am confident in, so I prefer not to use a bullet that "may work most of the time".
Please understand, this is not a shot at you or others who use and are happy with that bullet. If it works for you, I am perfectly ok with that. This forum is for exchanging ideas and opinions, and I value the facts and data that you provide.
Hope you have a happy new year, and I look forward to more exchanges in the future.
I'm a little confused about some of the commentary here. I read numerous comments from folks (myself included) who have had good experience (actual personal experience) taking deer and other critters with the Sierra 85gr HPBT. I then read arguments from a few folks who have no personal experience with this exact bullet but are hell bent on telling everyone it's no good for killing deer size game based solely on something they read in a manual. Personally I couldn't really care less if anyone else likes to hunt with this bullet. Don't buy 'em and there will be more for me to buy and load. Do those of you who continue to argue against this bullet for deer have any specific real life experience where you have made an accurate shot on the vitals of a deer and the deer failed to perform as intended? If so I'd love to hear about it. Maybe I've been lucky with my experience this year using this bullet. Maybe I haven't been lucky. Maybe the bullet will actually make a quick kill on a whitetail deer if placed into the vitals. Neither of the deer I killed with this bullet this year had exit wounds. The doe dropped right where she stood and the buck took two or three steps, fell down, kicked for about 15 seconds, then expired. All 7 pigs, between 100-225 lbs, were shot behind the ear and dropped where they stood. They were all shot from the luxury of a blind where I had a good rest and was able to make that kind of shot. I honestly didn't pay that close attention to exit wounds on any of the pigs but I don't recall seeing any. It really didn't matter. They were all dead right there. The coyote had a small entrance and small exit, again dropped in his tracks but I realize we are discussing deer size game specifically. I don't suggest that this is the best bullet on earth for killing deer. Sure there are many others made that will do the job as well and some probably better for certain situations. That can be said for many "hunting" bullets in many calibers. The original post referred to the lack of an exit wound for blood trailing purposes but also mentioned that the deer only moved 20 yards before expiring. Looks like from my experience and others we can say that "no exit wound" is at least somewhat common with the 85HPBT. So what I'm reading repeatedly are accounts from hunters who use and are happy with the performance of this bullet based on successful personal experience... followed by arguments from folks who don't have any negative personal experiences but argue against the bullet anyways. Makes perfect sense.
Well I typed this then read where BOBO says that he had this bullet blow up on impact of a whitetail. Somehow I missed that before. That must've been kinda funny looking. What did the deer do? Walk/run off injured or unharmed? I've never had any kind of bullet "blow up" on impact and I do a lot of varmint hunting with small frangible bullets. How fast were you pushing that 85HPBT?
PMC loads so probably 3100-3200. Blew up on shoulder six inch diameter hole no penetration past shoulder blade, knocked it down and then took off. Meat and hair every where. watched it go three hundred yards before it bedded down. After watching it it for 30 min I figured some thing was wrong got closer and put a bullet six inches below the ear at base of neck.
Here is another cup and core blow up but this with a 115 gr vld. This shot sent metal shards all through chest but nothing made it into the chest cavity. Follow up shot via high shoulder finally put him down.
I also had to help a friend track a deer he shot with 270 using 130 GK. Found the deer but took a follow up shot. Similar to my 243 experience except we found the two small holes in the cavity. Most Likely what was left of the core. We also found big part of the jacket in the shoulder meat. Obviously the jacket and core separated on impact.
Posted By: 603Country
Re: 243 bullets - 01/02/15 06:24 PM
Something shy of 300 deer I've shot, and never had a bullet blow up (that I know of). Maybe it's because I shoot em in the lungs and not the leg bones.
And I have seen deer with jaws blown off and chunks of face missing. Generally, I think that's from the poor shooters taking shots that they shouldn't. I guided for a time, and I have seen my share of poor shots. Had a guy in my jeep once when the ranch foreman radioed me and told me to shoot all the does I saw because we were 300 does below what we were supposed to take off the ranch. Well, I told the guy in my jeep that we were going to do some serious shooting, starting now. He was the guest, so I let him shoot first. He missed 7 in a row from less than 100 yards in less than an hour. Geez. Handed him my rifle and he got a few. But it was people like that who shouldn't be doing head shots.
But...that's off topic. As for 243 bullets, I'd probably go for Partitions or Accubonds.
Something shy of 300 deer I've shot, and never had a bullet blow up (that I know of). Maybe it's because I shoot em in the lungs and not the leg bones.
And I have seen deer with jaws blown off and chunks of face missing. Generally, I think that's from the poor shooters taking shots that they shouldn't. I guided for a time, and I have seen my share of poor shots. Had a guy in my jeep once when the ranch foreman radioed me and told me to shoot all the does I saw because we were 300 does below what we were supposed to take off the ranch. Well, I told the guy in my jeep that we were going to do some serious shooting, starting now. He was the guest, so I let him shoot first. He missed 7 in a row from less than 100 yards in less than an hour. Geez. Handed him my rifle and he got a few. But it was people like that who shouldn't be doing head shots.
But...that's off topic. As for 243 bullets, I'd probably go for Partitions or Accubonds.
I probably killed 200 does in three years with that 243 and PMC loads culling MLD. Never had an issue had some messy deer but all made it to the vitals. After the one issue and then buddy had his issue next year with the 130gr GK I went with partitions and now 80gr TTSX's.
I like the VLD's but as you can see from that antelope I need to be very careful with shot placement with them. My taxi was not happy with me
Interesting stuff BOBO,
The only time I have ever seen a bullet do something like that was when a kid shot a deer through some brush. Clearly the brush caused expansion before impact on the deer. We finally found the deer and had to finish it off.
Makes me wonder if there were any unseen/unknown (bird, bug, limb, etc) forces at work for the shots mentioned. I think it would be difficult to say for sure.
I like to line up hogs and get two-for-one shots, I did this three times in 2014. The second hog gets blasted similar to what you explain.
Posted By: kmon11
Re: 243 bullets - 01/02/15 09:45 PM
First time I ever saw a bullet completely fragment was with factory Remington Corlokt from a 7mm-08 in 1982. Shoulder shot about 80 yards, created a crater like Bobo described, when it was departing after getting up going straight away one to the neck dropped him but that bullet did not exit and another big crater with the neck being broken jacket was flattened against vertebra. Found out later the bullets being loaded in early 7mm-08 were not as advertised but were instead 139gr Hornady soft points. Started reloading with Partitions and didn't look back.
Have killed several deer with missing muscle sections mostly on shoulders that had survived and killed later in life, no idea what they were shot with but quite a few of those were in a state with a minimum of .243 for bullet diameter for deer hunting.
Posted By: littlebass
Re: 243 bullets - 01/03/15 12:21 AM
Thanks for the detailed examples folks. Something for all of us to take into account I reckon.
Interesting stuff BOBO,
The only time I have ever seen a bullet do something like that was when a kid shot a deer through some brush. Clearly the brush caused expansion before impact on the deer. We finally found the deer and had to finish it off.
Makes me wonder if there were any unseen/unknown (bird, bug, limb, etc) forces at work for the shots mentioned. I think it would be difficult to say for sure.
I like to line up hogs and get two-for-one shots, I did this three times in 2014. The second hog gets blasted similar to what you explain.
I look at it similar to truck brands, they all will fail but some quicker then others if you try to use them outside what they are built for. Most half ton truck can pull 8-10klbs with out issue...for a little while but the tranny, brakes and suspenion weren't designed for that and will not hold up like a 3/4 ton.
Little cup and core bullets fast is trouble on bigger game. My personal opinon is this is where monolithic and partition type bullets excel in small fast calibers.
Posted By: vanguard
Re: 243 bullets - 01/04/15 09:43 PM
130lb buck dropped last night. 243 100gr GK.
in and out massive damage.
Posted By: jeffbird
Re: 243 bullets - 01/05/15 01:48 AM
80gr TTSX.
I stopped using GK after I had one blow up on impact.
80gr TTSX is the perfect pill of the speed of the 243
+1 I concur with Bobo.
This is from a pig that went about 10 feet with my 9 year old nephew driving an 80 grain Barnes TTSX low just behind the leg.
The rifle is an older R700 with 1:10 twist, which would not stabilize 100 grain bullets, so this was the second bullet I tried and have been very happy with the accuracy and terminal performance.
80 grain Barnes TTSX over 45.0 of IMR 4831 with F210.
Through and through wound. Not too much meat torn up either which was nice.
It removed the top of heart as well as the base of the lung.
Posted By: vanguard
Re: 243 bullets - 01/05/15 02:47 AM
Posted By: jeffbird
Re: 243 bullets - 01/05/15 03:16 AM
Anything that penetrates through the central nervous system or heart/lungs will result in lethal terminal performance, whether a bullet, an arrow, a knife, spear, or an icicle. The key is to achieve penetration to the vital point. Lighter and faster bullets need sturdier construction than bullets with more mass, at least in my experience. As stated in my post, my 243 will not stabilize 100 grain bullets, so 85 to 90 grains is the limit. 85 grain Partitions are another option, but the Barnes have worked well so far in the 243. I've killed deer with old vanilla Win soft points, which likely are Sierras, just fine as well, but prefer these in the 243, which was the question. Not all 243's come with twist rates fast enough to stabilize 100 - 115's, particularly older ones (mine is from 1969). If they are working for you, stick with them. Makes no difference to me. I'm just offering my experience, and you can offer yours. There are plenty of other choices that will work as well.
In my 308, Sierra Match Kings are my go to choice fwiw, with Pro Hunters as my next favorites. Gamekings, NBT's and Partitions work too.
Posted By: redchevy
Re: 243 bullets - 01/05/15 05:11 PM
This is the reason I shy away from mono metal bullets. I have had too many experiences like this with both barnes and hornady GMX both pushing max loads out of a 300 wby or 270 win at less than 100 yards. (disclaimer... I have never tried the TTSX and hear they are better)
I have a 243 win and bought a box of sierra 100 grain prohunters. I have been happy with how they shoot, accuracy has been great. Only shot one deer with it so far, a 135 pound spike buck, it was a neck shot and drt. I have a box of Hornady 100 grain boat tail softpoints on the way I got free from one of hornady's promotions when I bought a set of dies. I will likely give them a try buy may use for paper punching only, never been pleased with a hornady product other than their dies.
When the sierras and hornadies run out it will be fed a diet of 100 grain nosler partitions.
Posted By: vanguard
Re: 243 bullets - 01/05/15 08:08 PM
nothing wrong with pro hunters they are actually a bit tougher than the gameking, the flat base gives them more jacket in the rear. i dont care what anyone says flat base bullets are more accurate than boat tails. all i hand load is flat base bullets im done with boat tails.
Posted By: Jhop
Re: 243 bullets - 03/10/15 01:54 AM
I know this an older thread. However I've been paying much closer attention to the damage done using the Sierra 85gr HPBT no. 1530. Saturday night I shot a 200 plus pound sow about 80 yards at night. I hit her low just behind the front leg. The bullet shattered one rib and liquefied the lungs. No part of the bullet made it to the opposite side of the ribcage. The big sow only went 4 feet from where I shot her. I haven't made it long range shots to see how well the bullet is holding together lately. All have been under 150 yards with the bullet coming apart into fragments. However it's still killing the pigs pretty good.
Posted By: Rocklock
Re: 243 bullets - 03/10/15 01:09 PM
In a 243 the Nosler Partition is hard to beat 65+ years and it is still the standard that premium bullets are compared to for a reason. Want to go higher tech get some Nosler Accubonds.
X 2. Partition. If it ain't broke don fix it. 100 gr NP in .243, 125 gr in 6.5-06, 150 or 180 gr in .30-06and 225 gr in .338 Win
Brilliant!!!! Use an example of a bullet that's up to 100grains bigger and shot into a phone book at 300 yards. Not to mention a mv that's almost 500 ft/s slower.
Posted By: redchevy
Re: 243 bullets - 03/12/15 01:07 PM
Not saying they all do it bobo, but I have had 130's loaded hot out of a 270 win do the same thing at 50 yards shot into a gravel pit wall. Only one I have had not fail to expand was 53 grain 224 diameter in a 223 rem. and I don't use them because I couldn't get consistent pass throughs with them.