Texas Hunting Forum

.223 A.I. trainer, switch stock.

Posted By: J.G.

.223 A.I. trainer, switch stock. - 04/12/18 06:16 PM

Being left handed I have to wait 6 months on a stock order, so my gunsmith and I came up with the plan to have a switch stock, instead of switch barrel. Removing scope, barreled action, swapping barreled action and scope for .223 A.I. took 4 minutes 30 seconds.

6.5 Creedmoor 1:8.5" barreled action. Tikka T-3, Bartlein M24/M40 contour, 24" finish. Manners T-4, CDI bottom metal. Nightforce ATACR F-1, 5-25X, Mil-C


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Tikka T-3 .223 action (same action size, different bolt) Bartlein .223 A.I. 1:7.7", M24/M40 contour, 24" finish.

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Virgin Lapua .223
CCI 450
IMR-8208
Hornady 80 gr ELD-M

This photo is rotated 90° counter clock-wise 200 yards, 20 mph 1 o'clock wind, .45" vertical.


Yesterday, in all that wind, I ran it out to 800 yards, only on the 1 MOA targets. Then put the rifle to work for what it was built for, the supported various height barricades. Recoil is next to nothing, and it is extremely fun to shoot! This fire forming load has an 80 gr ELD-M making 2800 fps MV.
Posted By: ChadTRG42

Re: .223 A.I. trainer, switch stock. - 04/12/18 06:30 PM

clap
Posted By: Big A

Re: .223 A.I. trainer, switch stock. - 04/12/18 06:36 PM

I wish mine took the same mag box I would like to do the same
Posted By: huck18

Re: .223 A.I. trainer, switch stock. - 04/12/18 08:05 PM

Thinking about building a trainer similar to this. Why did you go AI over regular .223 I have read a lot and it seems it's about 50/50 on both sides of the isle.
Posted By: J.G.

Re: .223 A.I. trainer, switch stock. - 04/12/18 08:56 PM

Originally Posted By: huck18
Why did you go AI over regular .223


Obviously, it shoots great while fire forming, so no problem there.

Once fire formed, more powder added, significant gain in velocity added, allegedly the elevation and wind corrections will match the 6.5 Creedmoor, with 140's at 2800 fps, to 600 yards. I have those memorized. Dee told me to not be surprised at 3000 fps MV, once fire formed. This barreled action will also be a secondary prairie dog rifle.

It is no trouble for me go through a second load development. I am on a rifle range most days a week.

After they are fired one time, I will size and trim. I will look to see if I ever have to trim again, I may not.
Posted By: BigPig

Re: .223 A.I. trainer, switch stock. - 04/12/18 10:04 PM

3000fps, going to be making holes in that steel
Posted By: wp75169

Re: .223 A.I. trainer, switch stock. - 04/12/18 10:06 PM

Originally Posted By: BigPig
3000fps, going to be making holes in that steel


Yeah, that’s against the rules!

roflmao
Posted By: J.G.

Re: .223 A.I. trainer, switch stock. - 04/12/18 10:12 PM

Originally Posted By: BigPig
3000fps, going to be making holes in that steel


Yesterday the only steel it hit was 300 to 800. Then lots of rounds at 400. Because anything less than 400 is too easy. peep
Posted By: Judd

Re: .223 A.I. trainer, switch stock. - 04/12/18 10:23 PM

Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Because anything less than 400 is too easy. peep


#humblebrag bolt





peep roflmao
Posted By: J.G.

Re: .223 A.I. trainer, switch stock. - 04/12/18 10:46 PM

You can shoot this one Judd. Even without a brake, recoil is more your speed.
Posted By: Judd

Re: .223 A.I. trainer, switch stock. - 04/12/18 11:03 PM

I still would've put a brake on it nuts

But you're right, pretty sweet little setup.
Posted By: J.G.

Re: .223 A.I. trainer, switch stock. - 04/12/18 11:05 PM

Originally Posted By: Judd
I still would've put a brake on it nuts


roflmao
Posted By: Bee'z

Re: .223 A.I. trainer, switch stock. - 04/12/18 11:16 PM

That is pretty slick right there. If there is a way to do it you will find it roflmao
Posted By: dee

Re: .223 A.I. trainer, switch stock. - 04/12/18 11:19 PM

It's one of the more entertaining calibers to shoot. Mine wears a brake so it's similar to my match rifle.
Posted By: patriot07

Re: .223 A.I. trainer, switch stock. - 04/13/18 12:45 AM

That's an awesome rig!
Posted By: J.G.

Re: .223 A.I. trainer, switch stock. - 04/13/18 01:22 AM

Originally Posted By: dee
It's one of the more entertaining calibers to shoot. Mine wears a brake so it's similar to my match rifle.


Couldn't resist going 400 to 800 again today. Before I knew it, I had ran 20 rounds through it. So fun!
Posted By: J.G.

Re: .223 A.I. trainer, switch stock. - 04/13/18 01:22 AM

Originally Posted By: 2Beez
That is pretty slick right there. If there is a way to do it you will find it roflmao


peep
Posted By: RedSnake

Re: .223 A.I. trainer, switch stock. - 04/13/18 02:04 AM

You were a busy man yesterday. You do all that after I left?
Posted By: J.G.

Re: .223 A.I. trainer, switch stock. - 04/13/18 02:27 AM

The shooting? Yes.

And sprayed Round-Up on the berms, cleaned the shop, cleaned the welding table, drank a few beers. grin
Posted By: Big Fitz

Re: .223 A.I. trainer, switch stock. - 04/13/18 02:33 AM

Looking good!
Posted By: RedSnake

Re: .223 A.I. trainer, switch stock. - 04/13/18 02:35 AM

Did you repaint that steel that I blistered with those 215 grains of goodness?
Posted By: dee

Re: .223 A.I. trainer, switch stock. - 04/13/18 10:51 AM

Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Originally Posted By: dee
It's one of the more entertaining calibers to shoot. Mine wears a brake so it's similar to my match rifle.


Couldn't resist going 400 to 800 again today. Before I knew it, I had ran 20 rounds through it. So fun!


What I love is how the barrel stays so cool vs what we are used to. That and the ballistics really ain't all that bad either.
Posted By: J.G.

Re: .223 A.I. trainer, switch stock. - 04/13/18 12:47 PM

I have not gone past 20 consecutive rounds, but it certainly holds up to 20. Only cooling is reloading the one mag I have. After 20, yesterday, I felt of the barrel from chamber to muzzle, and it was only warm. That's lots of steel to heat up, and less than 25 gr of powder, it just doesn't get hot. I'm sure there is a line, but would it be 30, 40 rounds?
Posted By: J.G.

Re: .223 A.I. trainer, switch stock. - 04/13/18 12:47 PM

Originally Posted By: RedSnake
Did you repaint that steel that I blistered with those 215 grains of goodness?


Not yet. I need to, that group is quite poor. peep
Posted By: RedSnake

Re: .223 A.I. trainer, switch stock. - 04/13/18 12:59 PM

Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Originally Posted By: RedSnake
Did you repaint that steel that I blistered with those 215 grains of goodness?


Not yet. I need to, that group is quite poor. peep


Haha. That’s not a group. That was the left over rounds of that second ladder I loaded and all were varying charge weights
Posted By: trigger time

Re: .223 A.I. trainer, switch stock. - 04/13/18 06:28 PM

I put 10 rounds through it and after the first shot it's hard not to giggle a little bit at the lack of recoil and blast. Way more pleasant to shoot than Redsnake's beast!
Posted By: Texan Til I Die

Re: .223 A.I. trainer, switch stock. - 04/13/18 07:37 PM

JG - What's your load to get to that 2900? I'm running Varget in mine with 75's and I'm getting 2773. I love the sub 0.5 MOA all the way out to 600, but I start hitting the wall on this load at 700.
Posted By: J.G.

Re: .223 A.I. trainer, switch stock. - 04/13/18 07:50 PM

Originally Posted By: Texan Til I Die
JG - What's your load to get to that 2900? I'm running Varget in mine with 75's and I'm getting 2773. I love the sub 0.5 MOA all the way out to 600, but I start hitting the wall on this load at 700.


Are you A.I. or standard .223?
Posted By: patriot07

Re: .223 A.I. trainer, switch stock. - 04/13/18 08:47 PM

Guys on SH are getting stupid high velocities on 223 with H-4895.

I was only getting 2,650 with 75 grainers and CFE223. Shot good, but boy was it slow...I also hit a wall between 600 and 700.
Posted By: dee

Re: .223 A.I. trainer, switch stock. - 04/14/18 12:30 AM

4895 is good for speed but can be hard on brass life.
Posted By: Texan Til I Die

Re: .223 A.I. trainer, switch stock. - 04/16/18 03:32 PM

Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Originally Posted By: Texan Til I Die
JG - What's your load to get to that 2900? I'm running Varget in mine with 75's and I'm getting 2773. I love the sub 0.5 MOA all the way out to 600, but I start hitting the wall on this load at 700.


Are you A.I. or standard .223?
Standard
Posted By: J.G.

Re: .223 A.I. trainer, switch stock. - 04/16/18 04:23 PM

I don't think you can get more speed. You can switch powders and try it, but I doubt it will get to 2900 with that bullet.
Posted By: RiverRider

Re: .223 A.I. trainer, switch stock. - 04/16/18 06:04 PM

Originally Posted By: dee
4895 is good for speed but can be hard on brass life.


How so, dee?
Posted By: J.G.

Re: .223 A.I. trainer, switch stock. - 05/15/18 06:10 PM

Dangit! Forgot to turn the camera sideways again! bang

Update on the "trainer". I've almost got 400 pieces of brass fire formed. I cleaned and neck sized the 300 that are, and ladder tested again. Based on what I learned in the ladder, I group shot these fire formed loads. I did not quite beat the mirage this mid-day, so I think this could shoot tighter.

MV

3086
3083
3089
3103 (soaked in the chamber waiting on wind)
3085




I think I'll roll with this load.
Posted By: ImTheReasonDovesMourn

Re: .223 A.I. trainer, switch stock. - 05/15/18 06:24 PM

Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Dangit! Forgot to turn the camera sideways again! bang

Update on the "trainer". I've almost got 400 pieces of brass fire formed. I cleaned and neck sized the 300 that are, and ladder tested again. Based on what I learned in the ladder, I group shot these fire formed loads. I did not quite beat the mirage this mid-day, so I think this could shoot tighter.

MV

3086
3083
3089
3103 (soaked in the chamber waiting on wind)
3085




I think I'll roll with this load.


Are you gonna try the 88 ELD?
Posted By: J.G.

Re: .223 A.I. trainer, switch stock. - 05/15/18 06:25 PM

If I can stabilize it in a 1:7.7, and if it will feed from the mag, absolutely!

Monster BC for a .224 bullet!
Posted By: ImTheReasonDovesMourn

Re: .223 A.I. trainer, switch stock. - 05/15/18 06:34 PM

Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
If I can stabilize it in a 1:7.7, and if it will feed from the mag, absolutely!

Monster BC for a .224 bullet!


I ordered a 1:7 yesterday. What kind of velocity you think I'll get with 88s?
Posted By: J.G.

Re: .223 A.I. trainer, switch stock. - 05/15/18 06:43 PM

With a 24" barrel, north of 3k, fire formed. Efficient little case, it is. Best fuel mileage I've ever seen. wink
Posted By: ImTheReasonDovesMourn

Re: .223 A.I. trainer, switch stock. - 05/15/18 06:46 PM

Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
With a 24" barrel, north of 3k, fire formed. Efficient little case, it is. Best fuel mileage I've ever seen. wink


I'm going with a 26" barrel. Should be legit.
Posted By: Buzzsaw

Re: .223 A.I. trainer, switch stock. - 05/16/18 02:17 PM

So, you like the .223AI better than the .22-250? JG?

to make a .223 700 bolt gun into a .223AI, all is needed is a re-chamber, correct?
Posted By: dee

Re: .223 A.I. trainer, switch stock. - 05/16/18 02:30 PM

Barrel has to be setback just a touch on a rechamber
Posted By: SingleShot85

Re: .223 A.I. trainer, switch stock. - 05/16/18 02:38 PM

Originally Posted By: Texan Til I Die
JG - What's your load to get to that 2900? I'm running Varget in mine with 75's and I'm getting 2773. I love the sub 0.5 MOA all the way out to 600, but I start hitting the wall on this load at 700.


ditch the varget and use 8208 start at 23.5 and work up,

I'm getting 2940 w/ a standard winchester case 75amax out of a factory 22" tikka barrel my load is topped out at 24.3grs......
Posted By: Buzzsaw

Re: .223 A.I. trainer, switch stock. - 05/16/18 02:54 PM

Originally Posted By: dee
Barrel has to be setback just a touch on a rechamber


thanks Dee, if you were rebarreling to .223AI. What barrel would you choose? Lighter contour

also would an .223AI be a waste of time in a 20" barrel?
Posted By: ImTheReasonDovesMourn

Re: .223 A.I. trainer, switch stock. - 05/16/18 03:07 PM

What powder are yall using for 85-90 grain bullets? Some folks say 8208 XBR is too fast for heavier bullets and that Varget will get better velocity. Anyone have experience with it?
Posted By: SingleShot85

Re: .223 A.I. trainer, switch stock. - 05/16/18 03:30 PM

Originally Posted By: ImTheReasonDovesMourn
What powder are yall using for 85-90 grain bullets? Some folks say 8208 XBR is too fast for heavier bullets and that Varget will get better velocity. Anyone have experience with it?


Ive heard the same thing but mostly with respect to bigger calibers not 223, for example my 8202load is the cat's azz in my308 W 155's but marginal to no gain in speed w 175's. I haven't gone that heavy w/ .223 but 80amax bullets loved the 8208 when I had some....,
Posted By: dee

Re: .223 A.I. trainer, switch stock. - 05/16/18 03:53 PM

Originally Posted By: Buzzsaw
Originally Posted By: dee
Barrel has to be setback just a touch on a rechamber


thanks Dee, if you were rebarreling to .223AI. What barrel would you choose? Lighter contour

also would an .223AI be a waste of time in a 20" barrel?


I have a #6 broughton at 21" that gets 3009 with 80gr berger vld. It's light for a target gun but heavier than most hunting setups. Nice blend.
Posted By: dee

Re: .223 A.I. trainer, switch stock. - 05/16/18 03:54 PM

I use 8208 with my 223ai and 80's. Will play with it soon in 7mm-08 and heavies as hodgdon lists it having a speed advantage. It being an extreme powder is nice too.
Posted By: J.G.

Re: .223 A.I. trainer, switch stock. - 05/16/18 06:14 PM

Originally Posted By: Buzzsaw
So, you like the .223AI better than the .22-250? JG?

to make a .223 700 bolt gun into a .223AI, all is needed is a re-chamber, correct?


Time will tell. The .22-250 makes more velocity, but with significantly more powder, like about 30% more powder. The small rifle primer is a factor. I will find out how long this brass will last, with an annealing schedule of every 2 firings. I think if a guy wanted to skip the .22-250, and go straight to .223 A.I. he could justify a hydro forming die. Remember, my fire forming load produced 2800 fps with an 80 gr bullet. Once in A.I. shape, I have gained 280 fps, that is very significant, IMO.
Posted By: J.G.

Re: .223 A.I. trainer, switch stock. - 05/16/18 06:16 PM

Originally Posted By: ImTheReasonDovesMourn
What powder are yall using for 85-90 grain bullets? Some folks say 8208 XBR is too fast for heavier bullets and that Varget will get better velocity. Anyone have experience with it?


I'm on IMR-8208 right now. Dee pointed me that way, and it has been great! This last load is compressed, even with the small kernals of 8208. Even with a drop tube, I just don't know if you can cram enough H-Varget in there to get these speeds.
Posted By: J.G.

Re: .223 A.I. trainer, switch stock. - 05/16/18 06:18 PM

Originally Posted By: Buzzsaw
Originally Posted By: dee
Barrel has to be setback just a touch on a rechamber


thanks Dee, if you were rebarreling to .223AI. What barrel would you choose? Lighter contour

also would an .223AI be a waste of time in a 20" barrel?


What bullet you want to run, Buzz? What's the rifle for? Mine is a trainer, so a shootin gun, so it is in an M-24/M-40 contour. It soaks up lots of rounds before I feel significant heat on the outside. It'll be another prairie dog rifle, as well.
Posted By: J.G.

Re: .223 A.I. trainer, switch stock. - 05/16/18 06:19 PM

Originally Posted By: dee
Originally Posted By: Buzzsaw
Originally Posted By: dee
Barrel has to be setback just a touch on a rechamber


thanks Dee, if you were rebarreling to .223AI. What barrel would you choose? Lighter contour

also would an .223AI be a waste of time in a 20" barrel?


I have a #6 broughton at 21" that gets 3009 with 80gr berger vld. It's light for a target gun but heavier than most hunting setups. Nice blend.


I've always liked a Rem Varmint contour for a medium weight barrel.
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