VARMINT Build-- Twist Rate

Im a southpaw and working on a rifle that will be a mirror image of the Remington 700 VS-- it'll be a copy of the Gen 1 in short action which lots of folks still call 'sendero' but they aren't technically.

Anyways-- cartridge is 22-250AI, barrel length will be 26" @ .830 (Remington Varmint Contour) planning to shoot 75s, 80s and maybe try out the 90s if they'll magazine feed (if I need to add a wyatts extended internal box I'll do that).

Barrels that are available:
Brux 1-8
Krieger 1-8
Bartlein 1-7.7 or 1-7 (5R rifling)

Talk to me on advantages / disadvantages.

I run a 7 in my 22 creed and have ran the 80-90gr vld with great luck.

What platform? Any issues loading to magazine length? And what velocity are you seeing?

Any will work pretty good...don't see any real advantage of going over 80 grain bullet and a 1-8 will stabilize it...

Ed

Any advantage to 5R vs standard in a fast cartridge?

Bolt gun running aics mags with zero issues. 90's are running 3240fps. 80's are a bit slower at 3124fps as I tried a slower powder but it's killed varmints and deer just fine.

1:8, or 1:7.7

I run 75 gr A-Maxes at 3200 fps out of a standard .22-250, 1:8. If it were me in your shoes, I'd go with either of those twist rates I listed, and run 80 gr bullets. I'm thinking an ELD-M will do fine on varmints.

Standard 2.85" for those mags?

Since you mention the 90 grain, that's the bullet you have to build around, since it's the heaviest/longest of the options. It will work with a 7" twist, but a little better with a 6.5" twist. I'd run a 7" twist.

A standard 308 mag will feed any bullet you want and still be well under max COAL for those mags in a 22-250. That 80 grain VLD Target would be AWESOME in a fast 22-250 round. I have thought about doing one of these also.

I believe so. I've got a few with no bind plate and a few with them. Also got a few magpul which are as shipped and it works with all of them. Running a 22-250 which is very similar in case length you'll have zero issue's as Chad mentions.

Why do you want to shoot 90gr bullets out of a 22-250 at varmints?

I just want the ability to shoot them at varmints and targets, especially if they are a long ways off, I can maintain good velocity, and much less drift. Also opens opportunities for deer / hogs. I figure setting up for the heavy for caliber bullets will make 70-80gr a cinch if I go lighter/faster.

Berger 80 gr VLD, G-7 .233

Hornady 80 gr ELD-M, G-7 .244

Berger 90gr VLD, G-7 .272

Yes, Chad brought up 80's. I was just pointing him to another 80. Berger is no longer King of BC.

No kidding! Here I was actually thinking we were talking about a varmint rifle. Very misleading title.

There some law about not shooting varmints with a 90 gr .224" ?

There some law about not shooting varmints with a 90 gr .224" ?

Light, very fast, and explosive bullets have always been considered the ideal for varminting.

It's the red mist obsession!

I always felt that way. Then I bought an 8 twist 22-250 and started shooting them with 77 grain MKs. They hit with authority and I can't see them moving any slower.

I know. But there are other options, that's my point.

I've used as light as 45 gr in .22-250, in the past. Now I'm loaded with 75 gr. I wanted to be able to hit prarie dogs farther out, in panhandle wind, and they do do that better.

Even more awesomeness!!

I find it interesting, I've always not liked the 22-250 (as much, that is) because of the slow barrel twist rates since you couldn't shoot the heavier 22 cal bullets, like even the 68/69 grain or 75/77 grain. I always thought the round was handicapped because of this reason. I have always thought a 22-250 would be ideal with an 8" or 7" twist barrel. Others think going to a faster twist is a crazy idea. I find that interesting.

It's a near perfect round for loading the heavy bullets. The cartridge is short enough to fit and feed out of any standard 308 magazine, even when seating the 80-90 grain bullets out long. There's no feeding issues with magazine room to deal with. The only lacking was the barrel twist. Sure a 55 grain is fast and flat, and I'm sure will kill a yote dead. But beyond 200-300 yards, it will lose too much speed and have an insane amount of wind drift. Stepping up to the heavier bullets will greatly improve the performance of the round for longer shots, and still work perfectly on varmints, and even deer. Just my

You're right Chad. I shot the barrel out of a 1:14 twist shooting 55 gr SGKs at 3780 fps MV.

I went to a 1:8, and loaded 75 gr A-Maxes at 3200 fps MV. The 1:8, and 75's was a game changer! Much longer range capability, and much better at bucking the wind.

Bout got that barrel shot out too. Thinking the next one will be a 1:7.7 and load 80's.

I get a kick out of the similar train of thought that the predator hunters have. Its all about how flat something is to 400yds. Yet ironically their super duper fast 55-87gr 6mm (243 &6 creed) loads only typically have 4" less drop max than my 105 loads and in a 10mph wind they get over a foot more drift. I guess if you don't hunt in the big open like I do where the wind always blows then they are great but not for me.

These older rounds are the way they are because of the era in which they originated. Smokeless powder technology helped start the quest for higher velocities and that was the focus in those days.

And, to this day guys want to shoot prairie dogs with something that blows them to smithereens, not poke a hole in em.

If only I could show you the footage I made of prairie dogs getting hit with a 75 gr A-Max. It does not disappoint!

When I ran the 55's there were plenty of times I tried far shots, splash one, make a correction, and the next round goes somewhere else. The wind was eating it up. I figured out the distance limitations of the 55's, and just quit trying the far shots.

To date, the farthest hit I've made on a prarie dog is 710 yards, and that was with the 75's.

Just for giggle's,I took my heavy barreled 25-06 with me on our last prairie dog hunt. There wasn't much fur left when they got hit with a 100 gr Sierra Match King.
Nothing but red mist in the air!

I would imagine there are some match bullets that would work well for obliteration. I've never experimented with them. What I do know is what I saw a 140-grain 7mm Sierra do to a jackrabbit...no mist or explosion, but about 20 yards of low-level flight and the most curious anatomical revision I've ever witnessed.

I don't think there will ever be a time when 1:8 .22-250s become common, but we all know the manufacturers want to tap markets any way they can. Fast twist. 22 centerfires will become more common over time, but "standard" twist. 22-250s won't go away anytime soon.

Should have qualified that. I meant when new .22 centerfire cartridges come along. What is the offered twist rate for new rifles in .22 Nosler?

Not to derail the OP thread but what reason would there ever be to put a slow twist barrel on a gun if you have the choice not to? My 8 twist 22-250 shoots 77s great and shoots 52 Bergers as good as my 14" twist Savage did. Assuming some day I decided to shoot small bullets out of it what am I giving up with an 8 vs a 12 or 14?

If you went to a light weight varmint bullet, like a 40 grain V-max or SP, the fast twist can vaporize the bullet in flight. Basically, spin the bullet so fast that the jacket comes apart and destroys the bullet in flight.

80gr Berger vld do pretty good damage on varmints going 3124fps. These two were hit at 282yds. Ones head was almost removed from the body the other had a huge exit with a lot of spray as noticed in the pic.

Thread isn’t derailed at all. Great discussion!!

New option on the table would be a 7.5 Muller or 7.7 bartlein- the 7 twist sold out.

If you have any wish to try 90's go 7.5 but I'd run it over the stability calculator to make sure the sg is decent. That being said 80's are really tough to beat.

1:7.7 Bartlein is my vote.

What I just bought for a .223 A.I. but I have no intention of ever running anything but 80 gr ELD-M

Ok that makes sense. Never going to shoot itty bitty ones so 8 twist for me.

What does the 22-250 AI gain over the standard 22-250?

I found a youtube video of one. Poster says its a 223 AI with a 7 twist and 52 grain Speer HP. You can see the puff of smoke looking debris about 15-20 feet in front of the muzzle, which is the bullet coming apart.

220swift speeds basically.

Yup.

Mo fasta!

I had a standard savage model 12 varmint in 22-250 and really caught the long range rifle bug with it.

Tried all sort of ammo over years to teach myself how to shoot. Whatever twist it was, the 26" varmint factory barrel just did poorly with any bullet about 60ish gr or more and got worse as it got heavier. Finally settled on a 52gr a max from an outfit called hsm. On a calm wind day, I could legitimately due sub moa all day at 300yds. The 600 yard 12" steel, the furthest thing I have access to, was just too difficult. Probably like 4-7 out of 10. Obviously I'm not too great a shooter but could shoot moa at 300 but not close at 600.

Also, this is one of the most interesting threads I've read in a while. Read the whole thing and it's re-igniting desires to have a 22-250 again but a much fast twisted one.

I may be showing my ignorance but I think this can be accomplished pretty reasonably by a gunsmith with the factory Tikka I have?

You can setback a factory 22-250 to an ai but it'll require shortening the barrel just a touch. Like thread or two.

I want to cut it to 18-20” anyway so great. Any idea what this costs?

No sir. I've never had it done. I inquired one gunsmith about it and he refused to setback to ai on a gun that was shooting really good.

Re-chamber and thread, I'm aware of a guy that's $300-ish. Machined to .0005"

Then dies and fire form my brass? I’m thinking there’s no good reason I shouldn’t do this.

I wouldn't cut a barrel back to 18-20" if you are going to re-chamber to an ackley. Even though most testing shows that barrel length doesn't affect velocity as much in smaller diameter compared to larger; the juice wouldn't really be worth the squeeze I don't think. Keep the barrel length when you re-chamber and let it rip!

I'm gonna go with a 1-7 and order it next week, hopefully they're back in stock!

I'm with JG on this one-- I just wanna go fast! The question was asked earlier- why 90gr on varmint? Well there is kill that is quite like overkill--- quote an A10 pilot that dropped a bomb on a single enemy!

I get why you wouldn’t cut it to 18” but with a 9” can on the end of a 22” barrel it’s very long. 4” shorter and it might be able to ride on my console. Plus I want to cut it back anyway so why not gain some FPS while I’m at it.

For the purpose I can understand cutting the barrel back for a suppressed truck gun for sure. I just the think the velocity differential at that barrel length might not be the best bang for the buck for the cost of rechamber, new dies, fireforming. But I like to go fast so I'd probably still do it and it is fun to tinker with something new too!

Any of you have have a 22-250ai do you have specs or print of the reamer used?

I've head some suggestions on going with a longer throat for the long, heavy bullets to maximize case capacity

Don't forget to take magazine length into account.

Absolutely! My math showed that I could still get a ~1.2" bullet into a standard short action box.

The reamer print Ive seen specific for a 22-250ai showed what seemed to be a short throat. With a long bullet that would mean seating deep into the case and reducing powder capacity right?

Just curious what guys have done about that or how it is done? Provide a dummy round and the smith just reams a longer throat? Is just a throat reamer used for that after the chamber is cut? I'm way outside my comfort level but very curious as to the actual gunsmithing process behind it.

^^ You are on the right track. I'd make a dummy round for your smith. A lot of the times smiths will use a throatless reamer, then come in with a throating reamer.

You will want the bullet seated out a little bit if the standard AI reamer has a short throat (if there is a standard for the AI reamer). How much depends on your mags and where the bullet sits at the case neck. Calculate this and load up some dummy rounds for your smith.

Thanks, working on a list of questions for the gunsmith so I don't keep going back with more! I haven't been able to dig up a whole lot of info on 22-250ai reamers. The print I found was off reamerrentals.com. Seems like it was set ups for the small pills for sure.

Just want to make sure I measure twice and cut once right?

Exactly. Know which reamer the smith uses, and get the specs on it. You are at the part of the planning phase where all the questions come up. This is why I coordinate builds for my customers, to plan out the exact specs on the rifle that we want for the ammo we plan to run. It takes a lot of planning and knowing about rifle builds and parts.

Regarding barrel length, when I was on the search for a 220 Swift many years ago, I found a tang safety Ruger 77V with a 20 inch fat barrel. The cowboy I bought it from said he had it cut from 26 inches to 20 inches so that it would fit on top of his truck dashboard so he could grab it quick when he saw a coyote. Well, I didn’t have a truck back then, but I still grew to love the short handy 220. When the barrel was worn out, I went with another 20 inch barrel. I never have missed the small decrease in FPS.

Bartlein 1-7, Rem Sendero Contour ordered. HS Stock, action and Timney are in hand as well.

A little late, I know...took me a while to locate this photo. This is what I think a varmint bullet should do---at a minimum.

There is no kill like overkill!!!

Rudy FYI they told me at APR that the .22-.250 mimics the .22 Creed....

So many choices!!! I think it boils down to fireforming 22-250ai or necking down 6CM brass to 22CM because I haven't seen any available headstamped 22CM brass.

I'm liking the idea of getting good Lapua 22-250 brass and fireform/hunt with it right off the bat.

I don't believe the .22-250 mimics anything at all. Except maybe the .220 Swift. That's a pair that has been mimicked plenty.