Remington may soon be out of business

I just read this recent article from the Motley Fool regarding Remington. It is sad to read that an American company with such a great history and with so many of us enjoying a Remington at some point in our lifetime, most likely an 870, 1100/11-87 or 700, this company may not make it.

Here is the article:

https://www.fool.com/investing/2017/11/30/is-this-major-gun-maker-about-to-go-bankrupt.aspx

Sales are down 78% year over year, a $60 million net loss for the first 9 months of 2017, they have over 1 billion in debt, and are burning through the cash reserves.

Who would have thought 10 years ago that the Obama administration would create such a boom for the firearms industry and the Trump administration a cooling off period, or the strong demand out there for pistols and assault rifles over general hunting firearms?

Hope they make it......

Its their quality issues now days that's causing their business issues.....not the political climate.

When the head dies, the body follows. No bull market can compensate for incompetent management.

The old BDL's were well made quality guns. It's amazing to watch a successful corporation in a mad rush to produce a lower quality cheaper gun to enhance profits. I would be sorry to see them fail but they got exactly what they wanted. So, "ya miss me now"!

Savages shoot well and really upped their game in their offerings.
Tikka is catching fire, quality product in every aspect, affordable.
Howa is making a push.
S&W and Ruger making big pushes in handguns sales
Ruger American series and Savage Axis really cut into the economy market
Federal, Hornady, and some others pushed new and better products in the ammo market.


Meanwhile @Remington:
Horrible marketing of new products and calibers. R15 and R25 could have lead the way in AR market but fell on their face
Endless trigger/quality issues in the main line, 700s.
870s are much ‘cheaper’ than they used to be
1st relaunch of R51 was a dismal failure, BAD quality
2nd relaunch not much better
1911 models are some of the worst 1911s offered
Importing Turkish rebranded knockoffs was a bad idea that furthered the ‘Remington quality sucks’ outcry.
Bad quality ammo

Let’s face it, the last 10-15 years has really damaged the brand, maybe to the point of no return.

That's it.

Ruger, Winchester, and Savage brought out new economy models to market at Walmart. Remington revamped it flagship guns for Walmart. Bad bad idea.

A corporation going through a chapter 11 bankruptcy just helps it reduce and restructure debt down to manageable levels. It might end up with a better operating budget, which could help produce better products. The big losers are the holders of debt and pensioners.

I highly dislike obama in many ways but he never actually did anything real to the gun industry. In fact, the biggest growth ever was under his presidency.

He went after banking rules making it harder for companies in the gun business to stay in business......

It was the biggest growth ever because everyone was afraid of what he might do in the future.
Remington simply failed to keep up with their competitors offerings. The trigger debacle was a major factor...JG is 100% correct in that they could have gained leaps and bounds by partnering with Timney, instead they kept having problems.

P_102

This^^^^

I would hate to see the name disappear. I hope the company can recover one way or another but they do have a steep hill to climb.

I don't think the brand will disappear. If they fold up someone will pick it up and try to make it go.

Until Remington looses their military contract they are not going anywhere

Agree, hope someone can get it and restructure to a good gun company again. Remington has made some bad moves under its current and previous ownership. Buying companies up then making changes so those companies developed issues like Marlin and H&R. Don't think the buyout of Dakota messed that small segment up but it does surprise me that it didn't.

They made some very bad decisions / cost cutting things that just didn't work out and quality suffered, word of poor QC and decisions got out and cut into sales big time.

I think someone with the $ could pick up Marlin and H&R and bring them back to profitable companies. It will take a far different outlook and control from the top to to survive thought.

It's hard to be upset when a company gets what they deserve. They design a bad product, build it poorly, and charge a high price.

probably has a lot to do with all the newer guns in the same price point or lower that are not known quality issues. I cant dog remington but they sure can be hit and miss on quality in the last 5 years. All the recalls they have had hasnt helped any either I'm sure.

To include the raping and pillaging of Marlin Firearms and creating firearms with that roll stamp of no value. It was a boom for Henry Repeating Arms!

Not just better quality, but much better overall performance. They shoot more accurately, have a trigger that doesn't need to be immediately replaced, and offer a smoother action. And for less money...

The question IMHO is why anybody would buy a new Remington over the other offerings (Tikka, Savage, Ruger, Howa, etc...even Mossberg is a better value at this point).

Yep...and it's disheartening to me. I own two of the sweetest old BDLs you ever saw. They used to be an awesome firearms company. It's sad to see them circling the toilet. The company as it stands now doesn't represent what the company used to be but time simply doesn't stand still...companies will always rise and fall just like countries do.

Older Remington rifles, even the old regular ADLs were nice guns. Hard to beat a good broken in wingmaster. I don't know why Remington decided to go to hell with their quality of these guns. I can't stand a 870 express now days. Hate the new Remington 700s. They should have kept everything the same and then if they wanted to produce a lower budget rifle they could have at least made something on par with weatherbys vanguard series rifles.

I'm a huge Remington supporter. That's because about 40 years ago my Dad bought me a 700, BDL, and soon after that I bought an 870. Fast forward to five year ago, I bought a Remington 700, 5R Milspec. That's Remington's top of the price scale rifle. After a year or so and a couple 100 rounds, I ponied up some more coin and put in a Timney trigger. The gun is a fantastic shooter, and I'll hunt with for the rest of my life. Three years ago I wanted something a little more mobile and lighter. I bought the same caliber in a Tikka CTR. More features, less $ and shoots just as well. Bought my stepson a rifle for his 30th, and without hesitation went with Tikka. For my price point on a rifle, Remington lost me to Tikka.

Doesn't Remington own other old firearm companies? I think Marlin is one of them.

"As one of the largest manufacturers in the world of firearms and ammunition, we have some of the most globally recognized brands including Remington, Bushmaster Firearms, DPMS/Panther Arms, Marlin, H&R, The Parker Gun, Tapco, Advanced Armament Corp., Dakota Arms, Nesika, Stormlake, Timbersmith and Barnes Bullets."

I don't pretend to know how all of this stuff works but I don't think Remington owns anything, including Remington. All of those companies are part of the Freedom Group which is owned by Cerberus Holdings.

This is what happens when company is run for the sole purpose of making money. Private Equity which is what Cerberus is focuses only on making money for them selves. They bring on a lot of debt to enrich themselves then attempt to manage the costs (lower quality to save a dollar). If it does not work out OH well they got paid and the bond holders get the screws turned on them. Examples TXU, iHeartradio.

I imagine Remington name will live on but there will be pain. All the names under Cerberus will be damaged IMO.

I hate that an American company with so much history is going to fold. But people speak with their wallet, and when you build a [censored] product, you will pay the price.

Look at how well a Finnish company is doing in the United States. People are speaking with their wallet, because it is a better product.

I really wish I knew someone on the board of directors at Savage. I would like to have a conversation with him.

I hope they produce some 30 Remington AR brass before they go

About 20 yrs ago I had issues with an 870 express not ejecting spent hulls. Gun was brand new. They had me take it to an authorized Remington Smith to get it looked at. As soon as I started to tell him about it, he grabbed a dremel and went to work. Took him maybe a minute to have it running like it should. He said he see’s them coming in all the time for that exact same issue and the QC at Remington had really dropped. Sad.

A very good reason to buy firearms made in the USA by longstanding firearm manufacturers. Many of them still exist and several are still family owned.

My next purchase will likely be another Ruger.

Dan,

Ruger is a publicly traded company now.

Montana Rifle Company is another to look at. It is a smaller family owned operation turning out high quality pre’-‘64 M70’s with some good safety improvements. They are quite accurate too.

I would be willing to bet that the plant is “unionized”.... which is playing its part to strangle the name as well.

Remington's recent reliance on foreign made guns named Remington has killed them. I knew they were in trouble when they dropped the 7400/750 autoloaders 2 years ago.

I quail hunt a lot and dove hunt considerably. Own lot's of shotguns as I have fell for everything that has come around for the last 40 years but I shoot a Remington 1100 better than any of them and it is reliable and don't kick a bit. I just can't find anything that beats a 1100 for killing birds. That's what I use when it's time to kill birds and not tote fancy guns. If they go broke so be it but for my money the best two shotguns ever made were made by Remington. Be a while before anybody catches up with 870's and 1100's in sales.

Not to go way off topic but Publicly Traded and Private Equity are worlds apart. PE is all about themselves Public Companies work for share holders.

Turning out poor quality products across their entire line will be their demise.

Point is Ruger is not a family owned business, but it is in fact publicly traded.

http://www.ruger.com/corporate/SEC-Financial.html

Has Remington been in the same basic hands for a long time?

Or is it like Winchester, S&W and almost every other gun manufacturer - basically just a name that’s been bought and sold several times where quality depends on who owns it at the time?

Statement from 10K at the end of 2016.

http://www.guns.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Remington-10K-2016.pdf

Remington Outdoor Company is a holding company currently controlled by R2 Holdings, LLC (“R2H”), an affiliate of Cerberus Capital Management (“CCM”)
(R2H and CCM together, “Cerberus”). Our predecessor company, Bushmaster Firearms International, LLC, was created in 2006 by CCM for the purpose of acquiring the business of Bushmaster Firearms, Inc., which subsequently merged with Remington Arms Company, Inc. on December 12, 2007, creating Freedom Group, Inc., which was subsequently renamed Remington Outdoor Company.

Here is a link to the most recent financials:

https://www.remingtonoutdoorcompany.com/sites/default/files/ROC%20Q3%202017%2010-Q.pdf

If you were in charge of the Remington brand, what would you do to turn things around?

Find a way for the employees to buy it back. It worked well for Harley Davidson.

Went to crap when they merged into Freedom Group, Inc. Old Remingtons were great, new Remingtons are mediocre at best. Has nothing to do with the political climate other than the management has no idea how to adapt to the changes, on top of a product with horrible quality issues.