What caliber for big game(bigger than white tails)?

I’ve had aspirations of hunting out west like most people. Wife may have a chance of taking a gig out that way. I’ve been saving money for gear and am now looking at a rifle. I already have a .270 that I love. Wanting one I can take moose, elk, bears with. Thinking about a .338 or 7mm. Are they enough for a bear? Looking roughly $1000 range

270 is good for most of those, not sure about moose. But the 7mag would probably be my choice.

If we are talking brown bear then I would go 338. 7 Mag will do it but the 338 will do it better. You could always split the difference and go with one of the hot 300's.

300WM. Plenty of heavy bullets to do the job. Affordable to shoot and easy to find ammo

In the absence of further information, this is the obvious choice.

3x on the 300WM for the above reasons plus the availability of rifles that are chambered in that caliber.

300 wm sounds good to me. Will it drop bears?

Sure.

If I ever get a large magnum it will be a 300 Win Mag.

+1

There was a guide on here offering Brown bear hunts in Russia. His advertisement photo was a huge bear; he killed it with an sks. No joke.

7rm would be my choice.

.338 win

Well that looks like a yes!

270 will do it for ya

I think 375 H&H would be good moose and bears, even bison. Ammo is going to be expensive though. 300 win mag is the best bang for the buck. It's plenty versatile and it's about the biggest round you can get before ao prices sky rocket.

Ok so looks like either 300 wm or 338 wm. I can’t confidently take the 270 for such big game. Shot a buck 3 days ago center mass with it and he walked away. Found him today. Not a good feeling when the prey can kill me

Never been much of a 300 mag fan... I sure have liked a 338 win mag, and am starting to enjoy my 33 nosler. If I had to choose a out west round--I'd probably go 7mag with 180 grains/28 nosler 180 grain ect... Or step up to the 33's..you will not need more for NOrth America and with bullets like 225 accubond, 250 grain berger elite hunter, 265 grain Barnes, and 300 grain woodleigh there is not much you cannot do with a 338 win mag, 340 WBY, 33 nosler...ect.... I have taken a lot of big antelope with the 33s...and they work

Ed

x2

.338 WM is a great round. I took one on my first elk hunt and was glad I did. If big coastal browns are ever are on the menu I will take it again. Many feel it’s the best NA big game caliber- and I wouldn’t argue with them.

I went to a .300 WSM because I don’t handload (more ammo choices) and the mountain rifle I prefer is light and doesn’t come chambered in .338 anyway. It works fine and 180 grains is plenty for all but the big bears.

X3

I may be out of line here, but "center mass" isn't the way to shoot big game---if I'm understanding the comment. In my opinion, you should always look for an angle to put a bullet through the heart. Failure to kill in this instance is (apparently) the fault of nothing other than shot placement and the cartridge has not much, if anything, to do with it.

I would add that no matter what cartridge you choose for big brown bear, you have to know the animal's anatomy and place the [right] bullet in the right place. Big browns don't fall to center mass shots.

I was going to leave it alone but since you commented I'll have to agree, it left me shaking my head.

Back to the topic! Without a doubt a 300 mag would be my choice, preferably a Weatherby but y'all already knew that. For an elk rifle the 7-mag would be at #9 in my top 10 list with the 06 at number #10. 270 does not make it!

Ok well next time I’ll look up the proper vocabulary before posting on an Internet forum. Maybe I should have said it entered near heart/lung and just took a while to kill him apparently. Anyways, I appreciate the responses. Is there any glaring difference besides size between a 338 and 300 Wm? I’ve heard 338 tends to drop a lot more where 300 is flatter. No experience with either though

Ballistics on the .300 will be flatter and recoil a bit less. Ammo choice also a factor if you don’t handload.

The brown/grizzly bear is always the spoiler, isn't it? Realistically, you are unlikely to ever get to go on one of these hunts and if you do it will probably be many years down the road when you have a lot more money and can just buy a rifle specifically for the bears (making some assumptions about you here, but probably valid).

So forget about that particular species. The 7mm Rem Mag will do fine for all the rest and kicks significantly less than the .300 WM. If you aren't recoil sensitive, then that isn't much of a factor, of course but the .300 WM recoil does unsettle the rifle off the bench in a way the 7 mm RM doesn't.

.338 WM does sink faster than the .30 cal. If ever you thought about playing at distance, or killing hogs at distance, the .30 cal is going to do a better job retaining velocity and slipping the wind. When the .338 does a better job, is when it is loaded in a larger case, the .338 Lapua Mag, .338 Norma Mag, .338 Edge. That is a completely different action, and a larger case head though.

Western and Rocky Mountain game shooters"... Some thoughts from "back in the day"

Brown Bear come in 2 noticable differeneces...Coastal aka Kodiak's are usually bigtime larger critters than the Interior Brownies that do not live on a steady Salmon diet... IMO and I'd use a 338Wmg as a minimum. I sold the Alaska Fishing Guide Assc a run of a couple dozen SAKO 375H&H in Mickey stock carbinbe's that weighed 7lb's bare nekkind with iron sight's, set up to facilitiate use by a fly fishermen as carry as a over the shoulder rifle that would not interfere with a fly rod's use. Shot the little gun sample I had a box or 2 to demo it and it would lift me of the bench about 5-6"s from a seated position...but off hand was a "lovely and very accurate shooter" as long as you kept your feet & shooting form properly placed.

Lots of my Rep buddy's from the Rocky's in those days used 270,30'06,7Rmg, 300Wmg for their great average rifle for deer family critters, and our sister Dist Co in Denver sold as many non mag calibers as we did in the Texas market....but outsold us in 338's by a factor of 5 or 6 times as dedicated Elk or Black and occasional Brown bear guns.

I kept a pair of guns in those days as a Go Anywhere in Texas and the Rockies in a 270 & 300Wmg, as the 270's 130gr's and the 300's 165gr's have about the same drop at out to 500 yards, and the 270's 150's & the 300's 180's same way 2nd verse in those pre range finder/BDC days when I depended on God's Mk I eyeball's and learned muscle memory holds on game shots from field practice.

Today for a 2 gun battery I'd look at bullet performace paradigns along those lines in whatever calibers/Rifle brands I was comfortable shooting and could afford....but for a dedicated Brown Bear rifle a I would be carrying an All Weather 375 H&H or something that would reach more better for a Brown Bear Charge Stopper...as you cannot out run one and he's NOT afraid of you.
Ron

My bet is nothing would be safe at the end of a 200 gr Nosler Partition out of a .300 Win Mag.

Almost no one uses less than .338 for the big bears. I would guess the .375 H&H or Ruger is the choice for the vast majority. Tracking/following up on a grizzly in alders is not very fun.

9.3x62 just to add some nostalgia to the discussion.

Work on your tracking skills before buying a bigger rifle to go hunting in the West.

Wow that’s a pretty good argument for a larger caliber. It wouldn’t be a dedicated brown bear gun, but if I’m out hunting another animal and see one I’d like to live to tell the story. The wife is looking at Alaska specifically so I will need some piss in the rifle

As an alternative, my go to is a 300wsm

I also really like the 9.3x62 and had one that was a MOA shooter, untuned, even at my avg 300 yard max hunting ranges in a CZ 550 American. I'd bought it instead of a 338 or the 375 Holland I thought I wanted and could not afford the one I wanted, but it is not the same performance on DG critters despite what I hear from the guys that go across the pond regularly.

At the time I was looking at using it primarily in the Rockies and possibly Africa for thin skinned plains game as a dedicated Elk/Black and occasional Brown Bear rifle....and is sweet and easy on WTails too...you could eat right up to the entry & exits holes even with the soft Speer 270gr gr'ers I was using. Today I'd buy another one if my shooting shoulder had not finally cratered from the '06 surgery....plus I am too old and beatup to even think about the Rockies anymore.
Ron

Go with a 28 Nosler.

Shot my BB with a 7mm, shot many elk with 7mm and now 300 wsm, never a problem on game that size.

I have a buddy who has hunted almost every corner of the earth and can afford any firearm he wants, he prefers his T encore in 300 wm and has take several big bears, one huge book bear on Kodiak. Not sure how many moose he has taken, but a few with the same rifle.


Side note, surprised no one said use a .223 it will do anything

I could do it with a 22LR, but I didn’t want to brag

Your being too modest, you could do it with a 22 short, in a crosswind, at 1000 yards, in the eye....

I would be tempted to do it all with the 270.

A few years ago I was doing the same thing you are now. I bought a 300 wby and have shot a few hogs and white tails with it and that's it.

How far are typical shots at moose/bear? would it be practical to pick up a modern rifle chambered in 45-70? 400+ grains of lead packs a lot of punch when not loaded down to trap door levels. There was a hunting show a while back on where the hunter was taking game with an iron sight 3030 and he shot moose and bear I believe without issue.

When I was younger we lived in Alaska for several years and my Dad and Grandpa did a lot of hunting for moose, caribou, sheep, and bear. The biggest gun my Dad has ever owned is his 300 WM and my Grandpa a Remington 742 in 30-06. Neither one of them had any problem killing all of the above with those calibers, including a Grizzly that charged them while moose hunting. Turned out the Grizz had a belly full of porcupine quills that had really put him in a bad mood....luckily they put it down before he got to them.

forget the 223 , how about a 22 rimfire ?

MO

After looking at a few different rifles and seeing these comments, i have a bit of a love affair with the Kimber montana 300 wm. I think thats the route to go.

Caution with Kimber rifles.

Terrible idea

You want a true to life love affair, then get a .378 wby.

If you want a Kimber, I say "go for it". I personally love them. They are a high quality rifle. You just need to know how to shoot a light rifle. Some guys can't shoot something unless it weighs more than 10 lbs, is supported by bags or a bipod, and they are sitting at a bench. When you hunt somewhere other than a blind, a rifle is carried a heck of a lot more than it is shot. It becomes a tool to assist in the completion of your question. Kimber makes a good tool...

Light weight and 300wm make a tough combination if you don't spend a great deal of time behind it. For that kind of price I think a semi-custom build would be the way to go....more accurate too. P_102

I agree with the above poster. Unless you are spending a lot of time behind the rifle AND not developing a flinch, the 300 is tough in a light rifle. I am a big fan of the 30-06. I had a 300 and sold it, have a 338 and never use it and have never found the '06 to be lacking for any game up to and including coastal bear. A 200 grain Partition will take out any big bear and will exit any broadside shot. A-frames will penetrate just as much or more than the Partition. I have shot a lot of wildebeest, zebras, kudu and gemsbok in Africa. Have shot a lot of elk here in Texas culling for big ranches. All with the 30-06 and have never worried about having enough gun.

I have hunted with .300 WM, .300 WSM, and .338 WM rifles weighing from 7 1/4 to 8 1/4 lbs all over North America for the past 25 years or so. Recoil is not and has never been an issue. I am a little, skinny guy. I don’t recall ever paying one bit of attention to recoil when I shot an animal. I mean, I’m sure my .300s kick more than my .270 - it’s just not enough for me to care about it.

I have never been able to relate to all the posts classifying a .300 WM/WSM as a bruiser to hunt with. Obviously everyone is different. Just as obviously, we are in the midst of a “light caliber craze” at the moment. Many posters on these type threads tend to read/answer a question of “ What is the best caliber to use for_____?” as if the question is “What is the minimum/lightest caliber I can use for _____?”. I’m beginning to understand that, for them, the question is one and the same.

I get that shooting 100 rounds a day at paper/steel is a different ballgame.

I would have agreed with your last statement 20 years ago, or heck even 10 years ago. Now days most big name production grade rifles can hold their own with most customs and for a heck of a lot less money. There are days when I am at the range sitting behind a sub-moa Vanguard and shoot tighter groups than the guy next to me that just dropped $5k on a custom build and another $2500 on the scope. For me the only attraction of a true custom build now days would be so you can have everything exactly the way you want it and have the money to do it. And then of course you get to brag to your buddies how much your custom shop rifle cost you while not shooting any better than the bone stock Tikka he is holding. To each his own though.

Never shot a Kimber rifle, but I know My Sako is a pretty sweet shooter off the shelf

For everything but bear I’d be fine with a .270. Noted Alaskan bear guide Phil Shoemaker is fine with clients using a 30-06 for brown bear.

Fify JCB. My smithy would go broke if his rifles shot like a factory gun. Though I do agree that many production bolt guns are legit sub MOA, these days. Most folks won't benefit from a true custom and will do just fine with any of the better guns.

Back to the original question, other than the 7mm-08, I love my .300 RUM with 180 gr. Swift Scirocco or A-Frame for anything larger than a whitetail and smaller than a Cape Buffalo.

If most don’t, who exactly does benefit from a true custom hunting rifle?

Get the best of both worlds, fast flat, heavy caliber.
338-378wby
Kill anything on the continent. Heck 90% of anything in the world.

the big thing is shoot what you shoot well. I have my favorite ones but the 270 will do just fine. use a good bullet. I have seen elk shot with a 243. Accuracy is more important than getting a magnum. On the other side I would never pass the chance to buy another rifle.

After reading this whole thread I see very little about shoot no bigger cartridge than one the hunter can shoot accurately and place the bullet in the right spot. A gut shot deer, elk, bear or moose is still a gut shot animal that will take a lot of killing to put down, especially in the case of big bears that can bite back.

Like an outfitter friend in Montana says about elk rifle choices, what is wrong with the clients bringing their deer rifle in 308, 30-06, 270, 7mm-08..... they can shoot well. Why do they bring a new gun in some magnum they are afraid to shoot because they cannot handle the recoil? He has had show some of them how to operate the rifle they came to camp with.

If you can handle the recoil a 338 or 375 magnum can handle anything on this continent with ease but if you cannot shoot it then it will be a disappointing and potentially a more dangerous hunt than you ever want to be on. For many years the 30-06 was considered the best all around gun and may be today considering it is still more than some can shoot accurately in a hunting weight rifle.

I have never taken that Moose hunt I had planned but still have the gun I bought for it 350 Remington Magnum and still would use it if hunting coastal areas. Thought if I went after a coastal bear with the rifles in the safe it would most likely be a 45-70 loaded with the best bullet I could find and there several that would work well.

^^This

And if a guy can shoot a big load of H-1000 or H-Retumbo, and a big heavy bullet precisely, then getting the animal in range is the only other task.

Hunting in Colorado this past trip I read a book by a outfitter who apparently new his stuff.

He said the best elk cartridges are the .270 and 30-06

Anything bigger isn't necessary by his measure and often results in poor shooting.

Personally, I have no trouble shooting the .300 mags ( never shot a .300 ultra or .30-378) but I imagine that is tops for most guys.

Bigger can be better....if you can handle it.

There is a middle ground however an I like to be in it. Marginal isn't what I go for I'm hunting calibers

What's your take on the .340 wby?

Yep, you have to spend a lot of money to get something that'll shoot better than a bone stock Tikka. Both of mine are half-MOA guns with factory ammo. I haven't loaded for the 6.5 yet, but I've shot a number of .25" groups with my 223 with handloads.

Even if custom guns do shoot better (and I'm not sure that most do), the difference is becoming indiscernible. Really the only benefit is to have something set up the way you like it.

How did some of y'all get derailed and start the custom gun debate? I saw one comment about going semi custom and I believe it was generated after the mentioned Kimber Montana. It doesn't take long to know kimbers are hit or miss with a lot of misses. For the same money you can get a new cut rifle tube put on and pretty much any rifle and ensure your cold bore and prevent some stringing and strays while getting it to a desired length. Just a good option compared to the skinny barreled kimber.
Back to calibers for big bears

so true

ok 300 wm it is and i'll figure out the brand on my own. Thanks for the suggestions and comments and even lectures about practicing before going hunting

Ryan, you have found out some about the THF. Ask a simple question and you will get many answers from members experiences to draw from and even answers to questions you didn't ask.

Generally a helpful sort around here though

kmon1 i have posted before and gotten great responses. It seems after i used the term "center mass" it was assumed I don't know what I'm doing and need to practice. I'm self taught at hunting for the most part so I don't always know the lingo. Generally, the responses towards the beginning said 300 wm and that has been corroborated by friends that hunt out West. As for brands, I KNOW that will get varied responses based on varied experiences with brands

30-30

When you go bigger than .270, .308, .30/06, you’re not accomplishing much with more velocity, such as with the .300 WM.
When you hit .338 WM things get interesting. I wouldn’t want more recoil and the 338 is quite flat shooting. It hits very, very hard and that’s a big bullet. Larger calibers give up too much BC, such as the .35s. I used the 225 BarnesX for decades in the Rocky’s..
The 338 is overkill for Elk. Large brown bear and African game is where the .338 hits is stride. Think of it as a fast, flat 9.3, a great caliber in it’s own right. Heavy constructed .338 bullets are seldom recovered.

With a tag like "Caliche Kid" and locale like West Texas, I'd be willing to bet you're from El Paso. As am I.

Caliche was all we had to throw at each other on the playground in grade school, and pretty much the only kind of rock you'd find anywhere nearby.

It’s nice to finally know what’s wrong with you.

I've never hidden a damned thing. Whassa mattah foh you??

A 30-30 will drop a bear except for one of the really big ones.

I did, in fact, live in El Paso for a couple of years during grade school, but I currently live south a few hours in the western hill country. I wouldn’t read to much into the handle, it just popped into my mind when I first logged in. I spend a lot of time digging in caliche to fix water lines, resurface ranch roads, dig post holes, and bury traps. So much so, that it was on my mind in that moment I set up my account. I grew up later in Del Rio and we have our fair share of caliche there too. If familiarity with caliche constitutes a defect, I plead guilty.

If I'm not mistaken, some of the tribal members of northern Canada have dropped BIG polar bears with .22 Hornets. The idea of that is not appealing to me, but maybe the survival mindset makes all the difference. I don't doubt for a minute that you can drop the biggest of all bears with a .30-30, or less. The question is, do you really want to try it?

Me? No.

We’re still working that out.

Yeah, they paddle up next to them with their boat and plug em in the head along with caribou.

Well, me too...I would have to confess to being totally AFU.

There are plenty of cartridges that will do the job, including your 270.

Bullet choice and placement are the key.

OK I'm gonna step in it for sure with comment...that is directed only at the idea of hunting Kodiak/Coastal Brown bear primarily, but also can apply to Interior sized Brown Bear too...for a DEDICATED rifle...since Brown bears are legendarily fast when agitated and easily agitated around a food source...I'd only buy a rifle brand and model that has a CONTROLLED ROUND FEED extractor...

Not the same thing but an example a mentor of mine went thru on his last and final Cape Buffalo hunt several years ago proved the point IMO...The hunt was in the mountains for the "smaller" faster sub specie Buff's with a party of 3 shooters, taking turns for stalks on critters the PH & team had located up high in some really rough ground. My friend on this particular stalk was the trailing "outside" or off side guy and not the point man primary shooter..as I recall the Primary shooter was using a non CRF Rifle in an appropriate large caliber, took a shot and scored a non killing hit...and the critter escaped. The Buff had run for thick wooded cover and was found a little later when their tracker followed the blood trail...the Primary was again the lead gun and when they were jumped at under 30 yards by the Buff from behind a large outcropping and headed going downhill directly at the Primary's backside, who turned and blew thru a magazine full of bullets without scoring a kill shot but hitting him twice in the face and chest during the full tilt charge...the 2nd shooter was out of position to shoot at first without hitting others in the party and could not take a shot initially, and my mentor had fallen backwards when he jumped sideways to escape the path of the charging buff...and administered the the first Kill Shots from under 20' while laying on his back and shooting "overhead" without being able to aim accurately (or upside down) while cycling the bolt... the buff had taken several head and chest hits by then but it was the hits from the side that finally got into the HVAC area that caused the Buff to stumble on his chin at 6' from the Primary shooter's feet, who made the final shot after he had the time to reload.

You can't plan exactly for what Ma Nature's gonna present to you in the field...and on DG stuff of any kind that WILL and is Capable of killing you, I am more than willing to be overgunned.

When I showed the Alaskan Guide Assc rep the little SAKO 375 carbine he wanted to order, for the final approval of the way the sample was built...and listened to his comments about why it was so critical for the small changes he wanted to be made ...he told me how to think about what to do and when to do it when confronted with a Interior Grizz while standing in a creek fly fishing the Assc's most common problem with Brown Bears...He said 1st the Bear will walk out and let you see him and usually woof or growl at you, telling you to leave HIS creek & may turn sideways to let you see how big he is to get your full attention...then when he get's PO'd you haven't left he may stand up to let you see how big he is, or walk down close to the waters edge and then stand up which is a more imminent threat ...right there at that point you have about 10 seconds to leave peacefully...'cause when he drops to all 4's it's Game ON and you are fixin to get a full charge and he CAN and WILL outrun you to get you out of HIS food source..so you have to have a gun that will STOP a Full Charge INSIDE the short feet not yards distances all of this will occur in...

Same kinda engagment scenario my mentor's Hunting Party went thru on a Mountain Buff Hunt that resulted in a very close call that ended with 6 BIG bullets in the critter from 3 guns before he was Stopped AND DRT at 6' from His target.

Just cause you eventually kill the critter doesn't mean he doesn't kill/hurt you or someone else around you. NO personal experiences here, just comments from people I know and trust to be honest about what happened and what did NOT happen ...and why. The Alaskan Guide Assc rep also said people cause most of the Bear charges with being uninformed or unexperienced with a DG critter they've never encountered before.

FWIW Lot's of calibers will kill a dangerous critter from distance...not too many of them will do it on an agitated nee enraged Large Dangerous Game animal at little more than couple arms length distances AND allow you to walk away unharmed. Time to think like a Boy Scout here IMO.
Ron

I like it but prefer the 338-378. Both need a brake or a super tough shoulder so why not go for the flattest shooting in that caliber.
I have shot it a few times at company hunts but never really put an time behind one. On the other hand I still shoot my 30-378 a lot.
I am a 257 guy when driving around the ranch here but go to a bigger caliber hotrod when hunting something as big as elk.
I saw where you shot your elk with your 257wby this year and I have shot a couple with mine with no problem. But since the hunts have gotten so expensive I have started carrying the 30-378 on them. Call it a security blanket.
If I went heavy bear I would carry a 378 or a 375. Them things can kill you so I want as much bang for the buck I can get.

A 338-378 Wby with a a heavy 300 grain bullet at 2800+ fps will kill ANYTHING big enough to die. If that's too much, then drop down to a 300 Win Mag pushing a 200-220 grain, and you are GTG! I would not feel under gunned with a 300 WM. It hits SO hard!

338 Lapua. No belt, more rifle options, more ammo options, and the 338-378 is one of the few rounds that makes 338 Lapua ammo look cheap. Maybe 100 fps difference, maybe. As much as I do not like messing with belts, totally agree about the 300 Win Mag. It has a very wide spectrum of load strengths and bullet weights.

never hunted DG, but I was in Alaska fishing a few years ago with an old family friend and we went moose scouting a few times, he carried a 300 win mag with 180 partitions. He said the best way to kill a brown bear was from 200 yards away, in the back of the head while it was asleep. He had a point. He had several encounters and luckily, as he put it "they decided to be good bears" and he didn't have to shoot them. Just saw where a PH in Africa was killed by a Cape Buffalo. I am all for precise marksmanship and perfect shots, but when there is stuff that will kill you... more is better I would think (as long as you can shoot it)

Can’t figure out how to post images, but after much research and conversations with friends I got a Tikka T3 hunter in 7 mm rem mag. Put a Leupold VX 3 4-12x40 on it. Haven’t shot it yet but it is beautiful and the scope looks crystal clear. Thanks for the help everyone

Meant to say Leupold 4.5-14.

Excellent!