7mm-08 the new 30-06?

With all the recent praise and ever growing popularity it seems the 7mm-08 is coming into its own as a cartridge that is thought of as a "do everything cartridge"

Where do you draw the line for biggest critters you would hunt with the 7mm-08 vs the tried and true 30-06? I feel like I would still favor a 30 cal for elk and larger, but I don't think I would blink at killing and elk with the 7mm.

This the first time I can remember thinking that the older way of doing things is still better dispite all the new popularity of a 7-08... what do y'all think?

7-08 has been around since 1958. I wouldn’t call it new. I don’t have one myself but it or the 6.5 CM will be my next purchase.

Not to call it new, just commenting on the seemingly new and growing popularity.

My next rifle will be in 7mm-08.

The Swedes, Norwegians,and Finns all like to hunt moose with a 6.5x55mm and I have yet to hear that it was not enough cartridge for the job.

I think the bullet choice is far more important than the headstamp. The 7-08 is a fine cartridge and probably sufficient for almost anything in North America. The Indian, not the arrow. But then again, if I was after elk or big bear, I'd choose the bigger rifle ifI had both to choose from.

This x2.

Remember it's just a short version of the tried and true 7x57 mauser. That round has been around for 100yrs now and was even a favorite of one of the biggest elephant hunters from long ago. It's all on where you put the bullet.

+1

I will carry my 7 Rem Mag for elk. But I will stand by my statement, if I were forced to only one cartridge it would be the 7mm-08, and it will kill elk, if a guy knows the limitation on distance.

We have two and about to acquire a 3rd.

It's a great round and will def. kill an elk with good bullets, but I'm not sold that it's a "do everything " cartridge or if it is that it ranks higher than many others available.

I think it's became very popular due to its shootabilty and accuracy but if you read the posts of the people that tout it heavily of it being the second comming often times those people do a lot of shooting but not a lot of hunting.

It's about the perfect whitetail gun for the eastern 2/3rds of the country but it's not my first choice for western hunting. I like something with a little more pop

I have both and they are actually my 2 favorites. I think improvements in bullets have made the 7mm-08 capable of hunting most North American game. Sure, you can use the 7-08 on elk or take it to Africa but it wouldn't be most people's first choice. If the hunter can shoot them equally well, the 30-06 will always win out on versatility.

Heck the .280 ballisticslly is much more versatile and shoots the same bullet



It's a great round, no doubt, but it's popular for being popular, not because it's ballistic magic

Back in the 1980 when Remington standardized the 7MM/08 I owned the only chronograph at our gun club and a buddy bought a 788 in 7MM/08 and at the time I was hunting with a 7X57 Ruger No 1
I guess seeing that comparison I was never enamored with the round. I think it’s a good cartridge especially now with all the new powders available that allow better performance than what you could do back then but of course that’s across the spectrum of all cartridges.
The 280 has been my 7MM choice the last few years and running a 175Gr ELDx at 2850 it will get the job done

7mm-08 with 140gr Sierra HPBT. Deadly bullet. I use the 165gr in my 30-06. The 7mm-08 is my son's. I load these in the mid-range for each caliber, nothing hot, with deadly results.

Despite all the "shot placement is everything" mantras, there are lines to be drawn - and each of us must draw them for ourselves. Most used to more or less agree the "line" for elk starts at .270 and goes up from there. Of course, nowadays things are changing with the "light caliber" craze.

I would never personally use anything under a .30 cal for elk and larger (not the light .30s lest the "gotcha" technicality folks weigh in). The only reasons not to IMO are: 1)not wanting/able to buy a new rifle and 2)recoil aversion.

Reason # 1 is perfectly legitimate. Reason #2 is pretty much a crock IMO for grown men.

Will a 7mm-08, 6.5 Creedmoor work for elk? Yeah, within their limitations. I simply see no reason to accept unnecessary limitations.

A true "all around" rifle for elk and larger game should err on the side of larger rather than smaller in caliber. This never seemed like a "rocket science" concept to me - yet debates on the subject seem to last forever. If I could own only one rifle for all NA it would be in .300 Win Mag/WSM (.338 Win Mag would be better for the largest game but I would make do since most of my hunting is not for the largest).

Short actions in general rule. Less recoil, more fun to shoot, lends itself to practice more often. Any of them will put a sufficient smackdown on anything walking around in Texas, at damned near any distance.

7-08 if you reload, because the possibilities are endless. 6.5 Creedmoor if you depend on factory loaded ammo, because good ammo is cheap and plentiful.

Some numbers I've recorded in the last few months.

David's 7mm-08 A.I. virgin brass, 24" barrel 162 gr ELD-X 2700 fps MV.

Bill's 7mm-08 A.I. virgin brass, 24" barrel, 162 gr ELD-X 2700 fps MV

Bill's 7mm-08 A.I. fired brass, 24" barrel, 162 gr ELD-X 2822 fps MV

My 7mm-08 A.I. fired brass, 17" barrel, 162 gr ELD-X 2640 fps MV.

Spencer's .280 A.I. fired brass, 25" barrel, 168 gr VLD-Hunting, 2830 fps MV (he got up to 2900 fps MV, but it began shooting poorly)

Next month I will have been shooting and hunting with the 7mm-08 for 35 years. Love to see the popularity of one of my favorite cartridges increasing.

Though I intended to use the 7mm-08 for elk when I first bought it I never have done so though ever bull elk I have killed I am sure would have died from the same placement from a partition or accubond from the 7mm-08. On short 6 day hunts I am upping my odds by being ready to shoot longer with a faster bullet than the 7mm-08 can provides just in case that 500 yarder is the only shot chance on the hunt.

The 06 with 220 gr bullets would be much better on Brown Bears than the 7mm-08.

The 7mm-08 is quite versatile and can cover almost all hunting situations on this continent but there are better choices for some applications, but if I had to clean out all rifles in the safe for the hunting I expect to do the rest of my life the 7mm-08 might just be the one that stayed.

A all around rifle for cloven hooved North American game animals does not end with elk

I would not really want to bring a 7mm-08 on a aoudad hunt, nor a mountain goat hunt, not really an elk hunt, nor a moose hunt, nor a bighorn sheep hunt, nor a mule deer hunt in the desert, etc.

In any of the above instances, I would reach for my .270 or .257 wby, or 7mm R.E.M. First.


It's a great short action round chambered in some handy rifles, perfect for the woods or box stand. But lots of more capable rounds exist.

And a 7mm-08 in a rifle is not recoil free. In ours the recoil is a tad snappy and on par with my .270

Seems like Jack O'Conner thought the 7x57 was a darn nice sheep rifle. 7mm-08 is the modern equivalent .

Well, I've killed several big mule deer bucks with my 7-08 and 140 accubonds. Not sure why you find it inadequate. Same goes for aoudad.....culled about 60 head so far with the same combo.

Yup, Jack's opine on the 7X57 of which the 7mm-08 is a ballistic twin

Jack's Opine link in Gun Digest in the early 70s



Critters have not gotten any harder to kill these days than they were back then.

My bud Bill will be toting his 7mm-08 A.I. on an aoudad hunt in a couple weeks.

The recoil on the four rifles I have shot July to now is impressively mild. My 16 year old daughter shoots my rental rifle with ease.

At what 16 lbs with a suppressor I would hope recoil is mild with the 7mm-08

just got mine.
two deer dead so far..

That one yes. Bill's is about an 11 pound rig, with a brake. 162 gr with quite a bit od H-Varget, and it still doesn't recoil as much as I expected.

My light weight one is also, very mild. I'd put both my girls behind it.

No doubt Jason, they aren't that bad. Gave a M700 Classic 7mm-08 to a friend that helped me out big time and She loves it. Got another stock and cut it down to fit her with a decelerator on it.

All this talk of the 7mm-08 I will take the 788 out on the next hunt, it needs to get some fresh air and I know what it will do if something comes by that needs killing.

Kmon, thank you for posting that link to the JOC article. What a read and what a life he had.

Makes me think seriously about getting hip deep in the M70 XTR 7x57 trade deal I backed into last fall. I've just began to start loading again, after finally finding the time to do something other than work on this old house. I did a trade deal with a guy in Montana for some 260 brass and wound up with a pile of 7mm bullets with some 400 SST & Spire 139's, 200 150 LRX's, 200+ IB 154's and some Speer 160's and had planned on using the Hornady 139gr'ers in the Mauser, and saving the bigger stuff for a 7Rmg VG II that wandered home with me couple months ago...but it looks like the Mauser will do everything I need the deeper in geezerhood I get. I bought some loaded 7x57 Privi 140's for the brass, that are giving me close to MOA already...something to look forward to this winter besides bitchin' about Jerry Jones latest drama's.
Ron

I haven't read all the replies nor do I claim to be expert in shooting or ballistics.

I will say, my next rifle most likely will be a 7-08.... unless I find a Belgium BAR in 30-06

But I've never saw more deer fall dead than with my Winchester 30-06

It was devastating on Whitetail, i was there!

The elk I shot last Wednesday with my 7-08 never got the memo that I wasn't shooting a magnum. Bang flop at 300 yds with a 162 ELD-M at 2666 fps.

You're just another one of the guys that shoot a whole lot, but doesn't hunt very much. The hog I killed Saturday with it didnt get the memo either.

No it's not inadequate by any stretch.

I'm a fan of the round.

I'm simply saying the three other common calibers I own get the nod first, and there are a lot of rounds available that are better ballistically and around the same recoil. No one is going to argue that a 7mm-08 is underpowered for deer sized game or really even elk at modest ranges.


I'm not dogging the round at all I have bought two and about to buy a 3rd

So one elk and one hog is the measure of a rounds capability ?

One hog and one elk?

My land, and range is my part time job. I've got a rifle next to me all day, most days a month, every month. And more often than not, it has been a 7mm-08. One hog, on my part, is laughable.

Cody called me in June asking my take on a short action rifle build to play on the range, as well as to hunt with. He is a skilled handloader, so I recommended a 7mm-08 A.I. he didn't go A.I. because he doesn't want the extra velocity, and he likes trimming brass.

But so far he has been extremely happy with the standard 7mm-08. Trust me, theres been plenty of hogs, coyotes, and whitetail that have fallen to the 7mm-08.

Don't own a 7-08 but I do have a few 7x57's. Great cartridge, love it. If I had only one rifle and cartridge though it would be a 30-06.

No it does not nor will it ever have the capabilities of an '06 but it is nonetheless a formidable cartridge that is currently enjoying a surge in popularity. It does a lot of things well with minimal recoil and performs well in carbine length barrels. In my estimation it is about perfect on deer size game. Although adequate within reasonable range for elk or moose the '06 is more adequate. That does not mean it's not a good choice. Heck, I shoot most of my does with a .223 and I know there are better choices, but it's a fun way to go. Using a 7-08 for elk or moose puts a higher premium on patience and marksmanship. In the right hands it is lethal.

Nuance and detail is always skipped over on these threads.

The question is “Is the 7mm-08 the new ‘do everything cartridge’ including for elk and larger game?”

The answer is “No.”

The question is not “Will the 7mm-08 kill an elk?” or “Can I take my 7mm-08 elk hunting?”

If they made the Tikka CTR in 7-08, I probably would have got it instead of the 6.5 creedmoor. I don't feel handicapped by the creedmoor at all, but the 7-08 does seem to be just a hair better as a "do-it-all" cartridge.

what's your favorite bullet for the 7mm08?
I shot one doe through the top of the head (from a tower blind) at 100 yards, done.
Shot a doe yesterday through the neck, dead center and it went down instantly but got up and ran when I went to get it.
I assumed it was dead, it was not. Must have "just" missed the spine. I was shooting the Hornady Full Boar ammo with the GMX bullet.

Never in 40 years of hunting have I seen a deer get up from a center neck shot. I suspect the bullet simply didn't expand, there was blood pouring out of a 1" hole and it would have bled out of course (my bad for moving in too quick). After thinking about the other deer, the bullet went in top of skull and exited the neck right under the lower jack, same size hole. I realize it is just two deer but I think the bullet is just too stout for 7mm08 velocities on thin skinned whitetail. I am sure it would work fine on a high shoulder shot of a big buck and anchor him. Out of all the loads I shot it and the 120 Fusions shot the tightest groups. I will probably run the 120 Fusions this weekend. I have some Nosler ammo with the 140 ABs and killed a lot of deer with that bullet out of my 280AI. It just didn't group tahat great, right at 1"

Good lord man no one is arguing if a 7mm-08 will kill a deer or not

Well, then I don't know what your argument is then.

"One hog and one elk"

What is that?

If only they made a 7mm-08 Creedmoor. Now that would be the ultimate all-around cartridge.

The point I was making is two animals killed with a cartridge does not warrant its merit as a all around cartridge.

So you're ignoring the 100+ other animals talked about in this thread.

Got it.

Less powder capacity, Tim.

What 100's of animals? Where has thst been mentioned?

I've killed about a 100 with a .22-250 but it isn't a all around cartridge

Also no one is arguing that it isn't a good round

Does it really place a higher premium on shot patience and marksmanship? What makes the 30-06 more adequate?

I would wager that anywhere you could shoot a moose with a 30-06 and a 220 grain you could shoot it with a 175 grain 7mm-08 and achieve the exact same result and even at the same distances. Bullet in the vitals is a bullet in the vitals and it will die.

I took exception to these specifically, and find them laughable actually. You've evidently missed the two hunt reports posted by BMD here, where his daughter whacked numerous African plains game with a 7-08, up to and including wildebeest and kudu, which are elk sized.

7/08 is a great mountain caliber especially if you are looking to drop weight. Short action and short barrels.

Lots of elk die to them every year.

My .300 WSM has a short action and short barrel too. Weighs 7.4 lbs all in. Since I can shoot it well, I’ll stick with it for elk and larger game.

Can’t believe these threads where folks have to convince everyone that .30 cals are basically useless nowadays.....

I'm sure a 7-08 can kill a moose but I would be leary about quartering away shots or a Texas heart shot. Some people are minimalist when it comes to catriages but I'm not. I'd rather have a little too much that not quite enough.

Not saying they are useless. Could you please show the rest of us how/where/when they are necessary? I bought a 300 wby with the intent of elk hunting, if/when I ever get to go I don't know if I will take it or not, might take my 270 even though it weighs 2 pounds more and is smaller bullet, it shoots better and I have no doubt what so ever that a 270 throwing a 150 grain partition will kill an elk just as dead at any distance I have business shooting at.

All other things being equal - for large, tough game bigger is better. If one is comfortable with it. If not, then all things are not really equal, are they? An elk is a tough SOB. I actually prefer a .338, but mine is a little heavier than my .300 WSM.

No one is saying or has ever said that the smaller calibers being discussed in this thread won’t kill/are not adequate for elk.

But the larger calibers exist for a reason. And that reason is large game.

I was glad I had a .338 and not a 7mm-08 when I anchored one on a ridge and (at the very least) saved a huge pack out job out of a deep bowl.

My brother was sure wishing he had a larger caliber when he shot one in the shoulder with his .30-06 that we never found. Would we have found him if he had a .300 WM/WSM or a .338 Win Mag?
I can’t say for sure.
But I can say he would love to have that shot over again with one of those to find out.

I agree and disagree to a point also. Its one thing to compare a 223 and a 270 for hunting white tails and call one bigger. To me it is a completely different thing to assume that same superiority accompanies a 30-06 when comparing it to a 7mm08. Using similar style and weight per caliber bullets in both I think the results will be undiscernible.

Have tracked a gut shot deer with a 223 for hundreds of yards. Have tracked a handful of gutshot deer with a 270 none made it past 50. I don't think you can expect the same difference to exist with elk and a 7mm08 vs a 30-06.

I agree with what you are saying.

Only things I would add is 1)increased frontal surface plays a role too and 2)I’m not of the opinion the .30-06 is the best “all around” choice for larger game either. As I said above, my choice would be the .300 WM/WSM in that role.

Are aoudad and mountain goats that hard to kill? Don't they typically weigh less than 300 lbs?

Just asking because I wouldn't think they would be anywhere near comparable to a 700 lb bull elk or 1200 lb moose.

I've also seen aoudad rams get knocked down, and get up and run off never to be seen again, using .300 Wby's. Maybe better bullets should be used. You hunt long enough you see lots of things, and some you can't explain.

Aoudads are pretty dang tough. Seen them soak up a lot of lead and keep going.

Never shot a mountain goat as of yet.

I wouldn't say a 30 cal or a long action is absolutely necessary for anything. I just don't see the big advantage of short 7mm round over it, unless you're just obsessed with recoil.

Nothing forgives like bullet weight and power, if your comfortable shooting a 30-06 then from my experience it will out perform the 7MM-08. I hate the recoil of the 30-06 and am trying my hand with the .270 this year, I have killed a few animals with the 7MM-08 and have yet to be impressed.

If you had lackluster results, perhaps your bullet choice and/or placement was lacking.

Those who feel a 7-08 is lacking, and a 270 is not, are mistaken. I shot 140s at 2960 in a 21" 7/08, my 270 did 2850 with 150s, they all killed just fine. They are so close in performance when both are loaded to their potential, and used to their potential, not much one will do that the other will not. A 7 mag is more gun, but mostly just more range....ie less clicks or holdover.

Many tools will do the job, when the driver does theirs.

For an apples to apples comparison, I can push a 175 around 2400 fps in my 7-08. I can push a 175 around 2800 fps in my 30-06. 400 fps is significant and the corresponding energy allows more latitude with angles on big animals.

for neck shots the old pre made stronger the Nosler Ballistic Tip was the most devastating I have every used. Popped several does center of neck that only had a few inches of skin and very little muscle attached to the skin holding the head on when shot from the back center of neck. Shot from the front almost as bad. 120gr Ballistic tips will almost decapitate them as well on a true center hit.

I started with Remington factory loads labeled Corelokt but they were not that tough, had a crater would on a bucks shoulder with them. Started reloading 145gr Speer Hot-core boat tails and they worked pretty good. From those I got some 140gr partitions and used them some with good results but $ for a guy in college they were high priced. Switched to 140gr Ballistic with lots of devastation and nearly decapitated some does with that bullet on center of neck shots. Hornady Litemag ammo came out and I tried it, groups were right around 1/2 inch a little below or above so just started shooting that. I now have some 140gr accubonds loaded up to try next if I bring that sweet little rifle hunting this year. My 7mm-08 this time next month that Remington 788 will have been in my possession 35 years

A 140 AB is my top pick in this round (just as the 130 AB in 6.5), though killed deer fine with BTs and Hornady SPs 140/139...

Even a Sierra 140 BTSP which slipped it's core...not ideal, but my tracking was short

I have a .280 and love the gun. To me the 7mm08 is a gun I want to own because it is a very capable round with the recoil of a .243. It will be my next purchase.

Just don't lie to yourself, it does recoil more than a 243.

12.1 foot pounds of recoil energy vs 10.1 in the .243. My .280 puts out over 17 foot pounds.

Those online calculators are pretty close to worthless/meaningless.

Having owned and shot plenty of rounds with both in hunting weight rifles, a 243 with 80 grainers is significantly less recoil than a 7-08 with 140 - 160's in comparable rifles such as R700's.

A 7-08 is a significant increase in recoil even compared to a 260 with 100 or even 120's.

The 7-08 I owned and others I've shot were much closer to a 308 level of recoil than a 243.

Well said..

There’s a lot that factors into it besides caliber. Each rifle and load recoils differently.

All I know is that the two 7/08’s we own recoil nearly the same as our .243, and nothing like any .308 I’ve ever shot.

Agree it depends on many factors, which was my point why the recoil calculators are meaningless.

Have owned 338 Lapuas that kids shot very comfortably.

In testing loads using the same rifle and bullet, different powders produce noticeable differences in recoil with everything else remaining constant.

Agreed. This is why I like my rifles on the heavy side. I’ve never had any issue toting them around the mountains, and they are much nicer to shoot.

My comparison is from my .280 to the 7mm/08. Charts are for general comparison. I understand very well the difference bullet weight, barrel length, overall rifle weight, and 100s of other factors can that come into play. My next buy will be a Tikka T3 SS in 07mm/08.

It's popular?! Lol. Good round but I don't hear much about it.

The 7.08 is a nice little cartridge, but in no way is it equal to the 30.06.

Sure, it can do about half the things that a 06 can, but none of them with the same authority.