Would you hesitate to take a

6.5 Creedmoor to hunt Elk and Muledeer? What's the smallest effective/ethical caliber you would use Elk hunting?

I'm looking to purchase my 30 yr old stepson his first rifle and he wants a caliber adequate for Whitetail and Elk hunting. I think he has the same idea that I did when I was his age....

Seems like a 7mm-08 would fit the bill perfectly.

I am headed up to New Mexico in October and our outfitter asked us to take a .30 caliber or larger rifle with bullet weight of 180 grains or heavier.

.308 winchester, or 7-08 especially for a first gun.

I shoot a .280 and it seems to be the perfect caliber for deer (120-grain bullet) and works on elk (150-grain bullet). Anything bigger than an elk, probably need to go .300 Win Mag or above.

How much time do you have to hunt? If you have a 90 day season and animals in your back yard, there's no reason that you shouldn't hunt with a .22-250, if you've the skill and judgment to do so. If you are out of state, have 3 to 5 days to hunt, have invested a considerable sum, and are likely to see only one or two shooters and those only briefly and at range, well ... it's your time and money.

Why does everyone always ask about minimums? The fact that the question is framed with that very term tells us the asker already knows his answer. Do what you want and live with the consequences.

7mm-08 is the answer.

And often is the answer for many a short action cartridge questions. Get a stout bullet, keep the shot inside 300 yards, and enjoy your elk meat.

How often does he really think he's going to go elk hunting, particularly if he's 30 and has never owned a gun?

My thoughts? Buy the whitetail rifle, probably a 6.5. If the opportunity arises for elk and you think you need it, buy a 7 RM/.30-06/.300 WM, sell it for a $200 loss when you get back, and just factor that into the cost of the hunt. If you're dropping $4000-6000 to hunt elk, another $200 won't matter.

Yes, I absolutely know the answer but my stepson seems to be leaning toward a magnum and I do not believe that's the best "first" rifle for him. And I believe there are calibers that will ethically kill an Elk that aren't magnums and aren't .30 calibers. For years 6.5x55s were used as well as .270s too. Now we have .280, 7-08, 6.5 CM and I'm sure others that will ethically and effectively kill an Elk. Frankly I'd most likely take my 300 Mag to hunt Elk but if all I had was my 6.5 CM or my 6.5x55 Swede I would not think twice about taking either one of them. As for taking a 22-250...I leave that one to you.

With the properly constructed bullet, and a shooter that knows the limitations of himself and the cartridge, I wouldn't hesitate to use any of the cartridges you've mentioned on elk. As stated by others, I would probably lean toward the 7-08 (handloaded to take advantage of the heavier bullet options) or 308 if elk was going to be a regular pursuit. But I wouldn't necessarily feel under-gunned with a 6.5.

308 would be a great first rifle caliber for him.

Ammo available wherever he goes for good price. Heavier bullets for elk, lighter for whitetail.

even though this is his first rifle has he done some shooting. Take him out to shoot your 300mag.
i use a 308 and have no problem with deer or elk, lots of moose killed with 303

I know outfitters that "if you showed up with a 22-250, they would drop you like a cow patty"

I'll be taking my 6.5 on my next elk hunt. Wouldn't think twice about it.

If a 130-140 grain .270 or 7mm works fine on elk, I don't see why a 130-140 grain 6.5 bullet wouldn't work as long as you picked a good bullet

I know a few local fellas in Colorado that have used a 20.06 forever, they like the flat range. I have used .270, 7mm and 300wsm, all 3 did the job and work on WT easy enough.

30.06 may have more flexibility overall in ammo calibers from light varmint rnds to larger big game rnds., at least that use to be the case.

Get a 308 and be done with it.

I believe for CO & NM, minimum is .24 caliber to legally hunt elk ... .243 or 6mm would fall into the minimum category, which would also be good whitetail rifles. Personally, if I only had one rifle to hunt both species, my minimum would be 25-06 or a 6.5, but a 270, 30-06, 308, 7-08, 280, etc. would also be adequate for both. 7mm RM, 7mm WSM, 300 WM, etc. have a bit more recoil and are likely a bit overkill for WT ... I have a wide variety of all those listed but my go-to all around is a 7mm RM.

I believe the earlier post referring to using a 22-250 was stated for use on WT (90 day season in your backyard) as a first rifle, not intended for elk.

I would say if he couldn't kill an elk with a 6.5 creedmore, 260 rem, 308 win, 7mm08 rem etc. with good bullets it wasn't the caliber/guns fault.

6.5 bullets have a great reputation for excellent penetration due to their high sectional density. I would use a good quality heavy for caliber hunting bullet.

I would hesitate to use it for elk. Simply because I like a little bigger caliber for elk.

That's not to say I believe it's unethical as long as the conditions are right.

That makes no sense to me unless you are strictly hunting for meat. What about the trophy that might show up in your back yard only briefly and/or at range? I hunt all season at my farm. I have seen the trophy I am currently after once in 4 years - for about 8 seconds at about 320 yards. I didn't get him, but at least it wasn't because I was toting a little bitty rifle.

Have never understood the current trend to look for the minimum caliber one can get away with/handle and accept limitations, instead of the maximum (or at least something in the mid-caliber range) to provide additional margin for error.

Good friends in Wyoming use 6mm for everything ... they teased us the whole time about our cannons when we brought .270s and 30-06s to their place for mule deer and antelope

Me being one of them..

I'd use it, and ive killed elk with a lot smaller.

Magnums sound great in theory for a large segment until it comes time to actually shoot it.

Ugh....what I was looking for was a baseline...geez! Not that I would consider the lowest but just a baseline...do you understand that?

Minimum depends on who is behind the weapon, so how small is too small is an individual choice to me. Without question at reasonable ranges the 6.5 is adequate. The 6.5 x 55 has been used in europe for a long time to successfully take moose. I think a lot of American hunters don't shoot enough and are victims of the media.

I'd use it.

Lots of room between a 6.5 Creedmore and a magnum. Even for the segment leery of boomers like the 7 mag or .300 win mag.

I'm no superman. I've hardly ever noticed the difference between my .243, .270, and .300 win mags. I mean, yeah it's there - but it doesn't amount to much. All this hand-wringing the past few years over 7mags and .300 WMs is, well, interesting to me.

I think many people have talked themselves into being scared of rifles bigger than, say, 7mm-08....

I would personally have no issue with it. Heck I'd grab a box of eldm and role out.

Actually, no I don't.
A "baseline" means lowest that is effective. At least to me.

Use the 6.5 if you want. It's as good a "baseline" as any I suppose. It'll work within its limits if you don't want to go even slightly bigger for whatever reason. It's apparent you're looking for affirmation, not opinions anyway. There are lots of little caliber fans on this forum. So you will certainly get it.

IMO for elk - bigger is better. I don't think that's a very radical opinion.
I don't think 7mm-08 or .270 or .30-06 is big - certainly for elk. I don't think that's a very radical opinion either.
I like a .300 Win Mag or, even better, a .338 Win Mag for elk. A lot of people on here apparently do think that's a radical opinion. It used to be pretty conventional wisdom.

Ironic. My grandfather used a 244rem or 30-06 many many years on elk with no issues. Imo it's more of a what can you comfortably shoot. 99% of the "magnum" owner croud (worked at a gun range many a year) are recoil sensitive and flinch like no other which causes poor hits on game. I see it to this day on deer leases with mags as well.

Shoot something within you're means and ability and you'll do well.

Some of us don't like unnecessary recoil. I had a beautiful Browning 300 WSM and I flinched every time I shot it so I hated it. Traded it and $25 for a Sako A7 stainless 270. I shoot it 10 times better and everything I've shot with it is equally as dead as with the 300. I haven't shot an elk yet but if I go it's going with me.

6.5x55 and .270 was pretty conventional wisdom

I know that NP is not going to like this but quite a few years ago I took an Elk west of Kerrville with a 222.

As I said, it's a little caliber world on the THF. As small as many can talk themselves into.

I hope some of y'all never have any aspirations to ever hunt any of the big bears or dangerous game in Africa. .375 H&H is still the minimum for DG in many countries. OMG!!!

I don't know which some would be more scared of - the animal or their rifle.

OP - if you are considering a .270 - get the .270. Or .30-06. Or even a 7mm-08. All are better elk rifles than the 6.5 Creedmoor.

Who the hell said anyone was "scared"? Because someone doesn't agree with you you have to disparage them? And I don't remember ever mentioning hunting dangerous game so why are you bringing it up? You've been pretty clear with your opinion so you can go troll on a different thread.

I think you'd get an awful lot of funny looks if you were to go to Europe and tell hunters over there that 6.5s are inadequate for large cervids.

Sorry, was just making a point.

That said, if you're not leery of the recoil of, say, the .270 - why not pick it?

Thank you!

Geez...this isn't ABOUT ME! If I go Elk hunting I'll be carrying more than a .270...you need to reread the post!

They are commonly used in Finland/Denmark for moose, no doubt.
I'll say this though - a moose is one of the easiest animals to kill on the planet. Despite their size. There is no comparison between the toughness of an elk and a moose. I wouldn't hesitate to hunt moose with a .30-30 - and I'm serious.

You bring a 6.5 to Africa for eland and you're gonna get a lot of funny looks too.

And quite a few raised eyebrows out west for elk. While a .270 would raise none at all.

He asked if some would hesitate. Yes, I would.

Y'all can have it. It's gotten off track. I didn't mean for it to.

My opinion is the same for any grown adult.

Alright, stated multiple times, and took the thread off track, as usual. No one cares what you think, move on.

Same guy, same problem, everywhere he shows up around here. No help, just trolling to tick people off.

That damn Randy Newberg again... funny that's what he hunts elk and Mulie deer with a 7-08.

Think it goes back to the poll I did one time.... height to caliber... irony was the little guys by majority all shot plus 28 mags.

Today's powder, machining , and bullet technology pretty much open a whole new level to almost all calibers.

I find the debate humorous. Especially when you just add KE to conversation

I find it even funnier someone with a self expose short range shooting restriction preaches the need for Plus 2000 ft ke at 400 plus yards type calibers.

There is Not a lower 48 super man creature, Out side interior grizz but they aren't even that big... and as of today you can't hunt them anyway.

Says he in a complete trolling post. Every one of my posts have been on topic. Your post is not. It's only about trolling me. Guess what? You are not king of this forum. You damn sure are not king of me. Why the heck don't YOU move on?? Or shut up?? Or both.

Irony is I agreed with you. You don't care. Too blinded by your little grudges/butthurts.

All I have preached is that a 7mm-08, 270, .30-06 is better than a 6.5 Creedmoor. I did say what I like, but I didn't preach it as necessary.

I know I could be more diplomatic sometimes, but you guys who troll/make stuff up so you can argue/make it about me could darn sure take a look in the mirror too.

Have you even compared KE of 6.5 CM to 7/08 and 270...surely you have

I just don't see how you can say na to any of those with out scratching all of them off. But same stand point I don't know how you can scratch any thing off that has +-1800 ft/lbs of KE at 300yards. Id use less but just for discussion that's alot of energy

I didn't scratch it off ever. I said use it if you want. Can you not read??

All I've said is bigger if he/anyone can handle it is better. Radical, I know.

Your "little man syndrome" dig is not appreciated. I had a long, specific post with some personal stuff typed. But, I'll cede the low ground to you.

I will say this much: the biggest animal I ever took was with a bow. And it didn't take me 10+ tries to do it.

At least you are arguing and not issuing orders.

K/E ain't the end all-be all. Except for readers, not hunters. I like a little bigger bullet for elk. Again, radical I know. So sue me.

It's fine as long as you know the limitations of the round. 270 would be my pick in a factory round though and is plenty for all game in the US unless the outfitter has a minimum they require

Tons of guys flog you every day, because you deserve it. You're one of the few that flog me. I'm not a king of anything but my home address. I've got PMs titled NP, and people telling me, in person, you don't help anyone, and only muddy the waters. But you carry on, digging your hole even deeper. You are the type of member that keep very knowledgeable hunters and shooters away from this forum.

What's comical is I've kill multiple species with all the calibers you stated with multiple different bullets and you are making reader vs hunter comments...what's you on game performance experience with a 6.5 CM? How can you actually compare them to something you haven't killed any thing with.

Read up some more.

You post was straight up trolling. Just like this one. I'll call my "flogs" and raise you yours. You don't think I get PMs too? Newsflash: not everyone is a fan.

Newsflash II: this forum ain't about me. Or you.

But you're the greatest JG. Your vast elk hunting experience must be respected and bowed to. If you don't believe it, just ask you.

I don't have a need to use a 6.5 for elk. My .300s and .338 work just fine for me, thanks. You use what you want.

What is the variable in this thread (and many others) that caused it to turn to

It's not FJG.

Actually, it is. He's the troll here. But, carry on. Keep kissing his boots. He likes that - and you'll never get ordered to shut up and move on....

Not a dig it was an actual poll with actual results. Technically it's scientific.

You got your limited once in a lifetime draw moose with one arrow, congratulations it took me 3 arrows, 7 hunts for my first Archery Elk, which to me is the beauty. I wouldn't have much respect for them if my first two arrows killed. I'd would have two bulls from the 330-350 range from sub prime basically OTC units. Actually if you figure in your moose hunt is traditionally 100% success and CO is 10% I actually beat the odds. You just did what everyone else did. Although I'd say that was an very very nice bull

ironically by time I was 16 I had already packed out 8 elk and had killed three with a rifle. I enjoy bugling elk. Thus why I hunted two states for them and Mulie deer last year.

What do you want to talk about next 14'k peaks, closed weekend hunting for Mtn Goats and sheep? Real man sheep hunts, bear hunting floating vs hiking, different wilderness areas, hunt success rates?

I'll cede you being The Man too. Feel better?

Never claimed I was. I just hunt when I can and give an opinion sometimes when folks ask for them in an area I may have a little experience in. That's all. You don't know my experience. I don't have a need to preach it.

But, as with JG, I don't need your lectures or condescension either.

thank you sir, I'm screen shoting this for future reference....that way if you want to agrue and chastise again I can quickly remind you of your faults

It's what insecure people live for. To brag about themselves and remind others of their faults.

It's not your fault god made you short and me tall'er. So technically it's not reminding you of your faults

Nor is it me being insecure about my higher level of perception due to my high'er height

Thin horn season is about to start, instead of poking everyone on THF you should work out more. You sure don't want to whiff after reminding me of my whiff.

Me too, 140gr Accubond/Partition, etc. 2700fps. No problem as long as you can get within a reasonable range and be ready for a quick follow up shot.

Don't start high fiving and acting a fool till you are sure he/her is down.

Guide I went Mule Deer Hunting with in Wyoming used his 25-06 on big Elk. He carried a .338 WinMag when guiding.

Something I find odd is some of these mule deer outfitters requiring large calibers. They're not that tough

I am taking 308 with a 270 backup, never know when and old guy will fall down and knock his scope off.
my son and his buddy are taking 6.5 with 7mm backup.
i have gotten to the point i just like to go to the big shining mts. killing an elk is gravy.

Bear country, make a client feel better?. Some of those LR guys out west are killing tag numbers due to their success rates being so high.

Most camp guns I've been around are 6.5-284 and 308's, apparently recoil is a real thing.

Agreed. I've killed 41 mule deer bucks since 1971, and a 7-08 with a good 140 gr bullet is plenty enough.

6.5x284 "camp guns"? Seriously? You are in some different camps than me. I doubt most of the natives out west I've been around have even heard of a 6.5x284. (That's only a tiny bit tongue-in-cheek, if at all. I have never even seen the first hunter with a 6.5x284.) What I have seen is .270s/.30-06s/some .243s/some.300s carried by locals/guides. When you type stuff like that it really makes me wonder how we can both be hunting the same western United States.....

And LR guys so good they're decimating populations compared to all other hunters in a unit/area/state? Now, that's just plain silly. Really.
Do the LR guys get extra tags? Scare the deer around the ones they kill to death? So, they're just that much MORE effective at LR than the mortal hunters at normal ranges. Despite being way fewer in number? Wow.

(If they are having an effect, much more plausible explanation is that they are wounding the chit out of animals and killing 3-5 and only tagging one.)

But, I did cede you as The Man. So I'll be quiet now.

Oh yeah? Well from right here I can pee over the highline, across the road, and hit that cat standing in the yard.

I'm just responding and on-topic. I do plead guilty to not just letting what is (to me) clearly just typing stuff go.

I was thinking same thing about you. In lower 48 how many guides you hunt with where guiding with a rifle and what states.....?

2 different camps had 6.5-284 as "camp" rifles. I can't for the life of me see why you think that's so odd. I'd say 308 is by far the majority. I've only meet two guides that had 300 for clients... and those are rifles that you are currently mocking. Fact you mentioned 243 is actually funny considering this current thread.

I'm pretty sure your sheep hunting buddy John porter is a big 6.5-284 fan,


You even have any clue how tag allocation works and how success rates factor in.

Before you run your mouth about the LR stuff you should at the very least do some research. Prefect example Late season tags in Montana block management units. A lot of those late season elk hunts are now running historically high success rates. There are lots of outfitters that specialize in high success hunts where they have clients taking 40 plus elk year in year out, news flash they ain't doing it at 200 yards. You should book a hunt with someone like Brozovich that's responsible for 700 plus elk, maybe then you would actually listen and learn an actual real reason for a big bore mag gun in lower 48.

I'm not a LR guy but I'm sure not stupid enough to simply dismiss people's abilities and successes because I'm to lazy to become that proficient

Have you ever been on a non-guided western hunt in lower 48?

Anyone else get the feeling that Nog and Bobo are best friends??

when one post, the other is not far behind.lol

They probably spend some vacation time together.

HUGE fans of one another