1/2 moa accuracy guarantee my a$$!

I'm so tired of a rifle company or gunsmith marketing their "custom" rifles as a 1/2 moa guarantee!! I have shot 2 rifles this week that come from 2 different "custom" rifle companies that claim 1/2 moa guarantee, but neither company shot the rifle after completion or provide a target that proves this 1/2 MOA claim. One rifle is an $8K set up and the other a $4K set-up, and I'm getting 3-4 moa groups at 200 yards with it, and groups are stringing diagonally really bad, and throwing shots. Ammo is running sub 20 fps ES on all groups tested, and some in the 9 fps ES.

From their website-
"The ....... comes with a 1/2-inch group guarantee as do all ....... rifles but does not come with the certified target. Certifying the accuracy is left up to the shooter."

Seriously!

If a company "claims" 1/2 moa guarantee, but does not shoot the rifle after completion, or does not provide you with a target, that should raise some red flags!!! I'm tired of going to the gun range to dial these "custom" rifles in with a custom load, and it shoots worse than a decent factory rifle! They market some new method of bedless recoil method with a system that doesn't work. Rant off!

Sounds like someone needs to exercise the guarantee and get it right or get their green back.

Maybe its the indian not the arrow/bow

But every company makes a lemon and for you not to tell who, well...

That policy is interesting. They guarantee 1/2 Moa, than see its up to shooter. That should make for an easy claim imo.

Prolly just crappy ammo

Chad... Were you letting Ramball shoot it? That's 100% the problem

I'm leery of claims of accuracy, no matter who makes the claim. That said, my 260 Tikka T3 from Chad and my 223 from Horizon both shoot to 1/2 inch. Both those guys delivered very accurate rifles. But I still have to do my part and produce reloads good enough to shoot that well.

Still, if I spent $8000 on a rifle guaranteed to shoot to 1/2 inch, I'm going to want to know what factory load or carefully constructed reload gets me there. And some of that ammo better come with the rifle.

But then I think of a guy I know that just can't shoot worth a darn. Put my 260 in his hands and 1/2 inch groups aren't gonna happen.

What's funny, is one of the companies actually told me it could be the ammo. I paused, and ask where do you want to start with this one.

603Country, I've thought about building a ton of the 6.5 CM rifles to have a good rifle, at a good price, that actually shoots to 1/2 moa or better.

The bottom line is, as a consumer, you have to ask questions, do some research, and make an educated decision.

Had a few come through my dads shop to get custom loads and zeroed that were worse than some semi-customs and factory rifles we have. Burn alot time playing with different bullets, seating depth, powders, etc. Try explaining to a customer the best their gun will shoot is 2MOA after they have spent 5k+ on a rifle with $2500 optics.

^^^ Exactly! That conversation is never a good one. I've had several of those conversations recently.

Did you ever have to go through a demonstration using a factory rifle to actually assure them they got screwed?

Some folks didn't do their homework if they paid that much

Who was it?

Did they specify what ammo they test with?

No, they didn't even shoot the rifle!

I have a goose that lays golden eggs. I've never seen him lay one, you'll have to get him to do it. $50,000 OBO.

Now that's irresponsible...

guar·an·tee
/ˌɡerənˈtē/
noun
noun: guarantee; plural noun: guarantees; noun: guaranty; plural noun: guaranties

1. a formal promise or assurance (typically in writing) that certain conditions will be fulfilled, especially that a product will be repaired or replaced if not of a specified quality and durability.


Even with great companies and great products there are some lemons that find their way through the cracks. Take it back.

It will catch up with them, one day...




You want me to shoot it tomorrow?

I dont even know how someone could come up with a guarantee like that without proving it. Whether or not the customer could do it is a different story altogether. But at the very least, you would know it was capable of it, and provide the factory or hand load info that was used. Without it, you have squat...

If you read the internet, everyone shoots sub moa from their rifles these days. The custom guys have to do better than that. Once the 1/2 moa catches on, the custom guys will have to go to same hole accuracy claims.

My badazz google-fu says it's made by Fierce Firearms! Yes, I rule.

1/2" is a bold guarantee. It attracts a certain kind of shooter and commands a premium. It is very bad business to not verify that the rifles are meeting the guarantee before letting them leave the shop. If this is a common problem for the builder, it won't take long to catch up to him. People will be bashing the company on the forums soon enough.

It seems like it is pretty common for some of these companies to suffer growing pains. They make a name for themselves and all of sudden the company is growing in leaps and bounds. Prices rise, quality suffers and customer service becomes non-existent. There is a couple semi-custom rifle companies that seem to be experiencing it now.

I hear alot of sub-moa, 1/2 moa, 1/3 moa talk on the internets and manufacturer guarantees. That's exactly why I steer away from "custom" guns. It would be a serious kick in the groin to spend that much and determine it doesn't shoot. Or a serious kick in the groin to be sitting at the range next to a Savage or Howa that is shooting on par with your "custom" turd.

For the record, I don't want my gunsmith shooting my gun and breaking it in...I've got my own way of doing it and his might not agree with mine.

I agree that they might put out a gun every once in a while that can't meet their claim. How they handle that is the question...I would be shocked if most didn't put it on a bad barrel (that happens sometimes too). More times than not the good barrel companies will stand behind the barrel though.

I also wouldn't expect the gunsmith to take someone's word for it and want the gun so they could do their own load development and if they prove it is shooter or the person doing the tune is responsible to pay for the time it took them to "prove" it.

That's just me but I only use guys that I know 1/2 inch isn't even a challenge for them.

I like the idea of owning quality items. I've not been able to decide to spend the money on a custom, though, when my Rem/Win factory rifles are capable of 1/3-2/3 MOA.

BTW, I like the fact that some companies (Larue, FN) send test targets with the rifle with date and ammo specs. I believe Larue sends a photocopy version, probably so they have proof that the gun is capable when the customer comes back to them complaining that their $2000+ rifle with a Tasco scope won't shoot MOA with Wolf ammo.

Might be the one behind the gun and have not one thing to do with the gun , has anyone else shot it ? I have taken high end ones like that and shot 1/2 - 3/4 all day long and then let someone who says they are a so called " expert shot" and shot 4-5'' groups at 100 yards . I am not saying your are a crapping shot but sometime it is the shooter.

If Chad is the shooter, I highly highly doubt there is a shooter or ammo issue.

I'm not that great of a shooter and his ammo makes me look like a stud at the range.

It's literally what he does for a living. I assure you it's NOT a shooter problem!

I know that and it still could be him , no one is perfect !!

Cases like this can only be one of 2 things

1. bedding job
2. barrel

the former can easily be identified/fixed... maybe you can check it and let us know
if that's the case. I am betting it is the root cause

A fool and his $8K are soon parted...Caveat Emptor.

It's interesting that they list some of their rifles with "certified targets" but the Fury model is not.

I read through their website and it took all of about 1 minute to be turned off. Their use of the words "fierce", "ferocious", "fury" are a little ridiculous and goofy.

it is amusing to me that my Ruger Ameican Predator 308 will put 5 holes in a target within 3/4 inch at 100 yds
wish i had paid more, maybe it would shoot better.

Scopes will sometimes go wonky. And screws get left loose. And sometimes specs get messed up

I collect Ruger #1's, and very eagerly grabbed one of the 2015 limited editions, a 26" barrel .223, which was advertised with a 1 in 8" twist barrel, good for heavy bullets, like the 75gr Amax. I found a rifle with nice wood, got it all fixed up, loaded some 75gr Amax loads just kissing the lands,and got 3-5MOA. Shorter bullets like the 69gr tipped Matchking did better, and 77gr OTM Bergers did about 5/8". The light went on and I measured the twist - twice and got 1 in 9" both times. I emailed Ruger and they admitted it was really a 1 in 9" twist, which is actually marginal for the 77 OTM and definitely no good for longer bullets. In my case the bullets didn't turn sideways, just grouped poorly.

If someone spec'd a fast twist barrel and the builder said, "oh heck he don't know what he wants" and used a standard twist, it may not group with the trendy ultra-long VLD bullets.

Berger has a really good stability calculator at their website; it's good for double checking that you have the correct setup for a given load.

It's all details. Debugging a poor shooter could require anything from a screwdriver, to a borescope, to a different scope, to another shooter.

Chad's not perfect but I'd back him on the money in a shooting contest against the majority of this forum. He knows what he's doing, and he knows how to diagnose problems. We talked about this after he left my range yesterday. I threw two tips at him, just as a reminder, because I knew he already knew them.

Seen many custom rifles sold second hand. Elsewhere all of the parts are listed, the Smith is listed, round count is listed, and a pic of a 5 shot 100 yard group is provided. I'd be comfortable buying one with all of that disclosed.

Over the years and quite a few rifles have a few rifles that are legit sub half MOA, one came with a sub half MOA guarantee from the factory and it easily does it (Cooper) the others are 2 customs and 2 factory Remingtons a 788 and a 700.

Agree with Chad a manufacture should provide a test target with the rifle. One of my complaints with Remington is they claim or at least did in their advertisements the 700 is the most accurate out of the box factory rifle, have had several that would not shoot 2+MOA with any load I tried including load workup for them and one that would not even chamber a round due to a large machining burr on the bolt face.

Well there are still some thing that everyone can learn even if they know much of what goes on in the shooting world , i have shot a lot of competitive comps and fully understand where he is coming from it maybe the fact that the gun does have a slight problem but the fact is i would not rule out him having an off day.

He probably also shot a couple of other rifles, testing loads. He doesn't show up to the range and only test one rifle, it's often four or five. If he was having an off day, why do the others shoot fine?

Gimme a break...an off day shooting a 1/2 inch capable rifle (like mine) doesn't result in 2 to 4 inch groups in the hands of a good shot. When I'm having an off day, I'll know it. I'd be surprised if most good shooters wouldn't recognize when they aren't on the top of their game.

Of course, some rifles are a bit tougher to shoot well than others. My light barreled 223 takes a bit more concentration and attention to technique than the semi-heavy barreled (#4 Contour) 260. When I shoot an ugly group with the 223, I fuss at myself for doing a poor job. When I shoot one with the 260, I clean the barrel.

Earlier, Chad mentioned that maybe he ought to make up some 6.5 Creedmores for sale and guarantee 1/2 inch groups. I think that's a great idea, if he sets them up like he did my Tikka, and it won't cost $8k. My 220 Swift is a great shooter, but I still have to work at good groups. Same with the 223, but that 260 is just so darn easy to shoot well with. Gotta be the semi-heavy barrel. The other two have light barrels.

But then you have to ask how many folks are really willing to pay even $2k or less for that degree of accuracy. Everyone talks it, but not everyone wants to pull out the plastic and pay for it. I finally ponied up the money, and I'm glad I did.

Oh, I've definitely had bad days at the range, where I can't get comfortable and get in my zone to shoot just right. I've packed my crap up half way through and left. One was me, and the other was the 15-20 mph shifting winds I was shooting in. I even talked about could it be me or how I was shooting it.

But I see more and more "custom" rifles that truly are not worth it. A lot of people think that the more expensive it is, the better an item should be. There are many examples where I can disprove that in the shooting world. There are some newer methods of bedding a rifle that don't require bedding and should be a good shooter. Yes, some can do this, depending on the set up. Telling a customer that his high end rifle is not shooting worth a darn stinks! I've spoken the company, and they want the rifle back to check it out. But I'll play with it again soon, and see what a more common load does in it, non VLD bullet.

If Chad says it doesn't shoot, after he has done a load work up for it, then I believe it doesnt shoot. Since the builder has still not been revealed, and he says it is a reputable builder, then my first guess is he got a crappy barrel. It happens. It may not be a smith problem at all. I dont care who it is, every so often a bad barrel will come out of a batch. I have seen it happen. I am pretty sure that any reputable barrel maker will fix it. It could also be a smith problem. I dont care how good you think you are, your rifles are still at the mercy of being made by humans, and humans make mistakes.

I agree with his original bitch. How can you guarantee it without proof. I have custom rifles from 3 different smiths, and not a one of them claimed any sort of guarantees. Do they shoot 1/2 MOA? Yes. With my hand loads? Yes. I can guarantee this. If I couldn't get them to shoot, all 3 would take them back and spend whatever time it took to make sure they did shoot before giving them back to me. Everyone and their brother in law is building rifles these days. If you want to build me a rifle and guarantee it will shoot 1/2 moa, prove it. Period...

Maybe they mean 1/2 MOA with 1 shot groups.

Too much BS here to read it all

Has anyone called the builder to send the gun back and let them fix it???

Yes, they want me to send it to them to look at and/or repair.

Hey, I can do that!

I shot a 5 shot 2 inch group at 400 yards last Saturday. Man was I proud! Then reality reared it's ugly head and I promptly went back to shooting my usual 5 - 6 inch groups.

good cant wait to see the results, keep us posted trgchadwick

Before giving up on it try another scope that is known to be good, have seen a couple scopes from reputable scope manufactures not be accurate, last one was a Vortex Viper PST last Summer.

that's why I buy SAVAGE

You prolly shoulda used the bench and the nifty swing out gate.

X2

I would be very curious as to who built this rifle. When I started using S&S a few years back the only guaranty that Stick would give me was that the bullet would come out of the end of the barrel.

I have shot and owned my share of custom and semi custom rifles from a lot of different builders and gunsmiths and while some have been better than others I have only had one that wouldn't shoot. Turns out the barrel had some pretty severe tool chatter marks that was tearing the jackets off of the bullets. The smith called the barrel manufacturer and a few weeks later the problem was solved. The gunsmith never thought to inspect the barrel, after all the barrel maker was well known for their high quality, and I was sure that the problem was the ammo or my shooting.

If you get a "him" to lay an egg, you've really got something!

But if she doesn't drop the golden egg, it is the purchasers fault!

Not be rude are a butt , it just seems like more and more people want to stat they are great shooters and now there load development and all that but it what gets me the most is if you spend even 5k on a custom set up then you should know that rifle in and out and be able to take it down and see what the problem is . I have several custom builds and once i get them ( my OCD kicks in i guess ) i tear the rifle all the way down and see what all the internals look like and i have found a few times where something was not up to my standards and had to fix it the way i wanted and in the end i should have taken it back but it was fixed and i knew that i would not have any problems out of it .
I fully understand that chad knows what he is doing i have talked to a lot of people and he has a really good rep so i am not bashing him in any way , my son has bought me and him a crap load of his ammo.

The men don't need that silly stuff.

I would be pissed
A good rifle shouldn't be finicky with ammo either in my opinion

Internals in a bolt rifle?

Well i meant to look at it entirely to make sure there is nothing wrong in the barrell sorry i miss typed

Not a gunsmith here, but I do own a Hawkeye borescope. Pretty good tool for deciding whether to keep messing with a barrel, or just replace it.

bingo


I should buy one of these....

After you buy one, we should be friends that let each other borrow stuff.

I have a Hawkeye, and it has been a great tool around the shop. Besides using it to examine rifle bores, I once used mine to find a small spring that had gotten away from me. - It was under a roll-away tool cabinet.

On the topic: I can only express my regret that the shooter had to experience something like that. - It is a natural consequence, sad to say, of everybody and his pet chihuahua getting into the custom rifle business, just as a few years back there were so many AR manufacturers.

When I bought a 6.8 spc upper from Precision Reflex, I was very surprised and impressed to get a test target with 3 holes touching. All the rifles I bought throughout the years, it was the first time I received a target. I think any rifle manufacturer that advertised and MOA guarantee should supply a test target.

I shot the rifle again yesterday with a 5 round group from the load that shot the best so far with a low ES. At 200 yards, 2 touching high, 2 touching 3" low, and 1 round 3" lower than that, about a 6" group in all. Something is causing it walking around.

Few suggestions if you have not already tried them and doubtless you already know them, but just tossing some ideas for you.

Put a pic rail on it and use one of your own scopes that you know is tried and true. I have an older Nightforce 5.5x22-56 that I use on every new rifle to remove that variable. The pic rail removes bases as an issue.

Have you tried a ladder on the loads? Even though the ES/SD may be very low, it may not be the optimal load for that rifle. Same with seating depth variance.

Try a tangent ogive bullet.

Check that the receiver screws are torqued correctly. Loosen them and then retightened with a torque wrench. For a synthetic stock, loosen both screws, then tighten the front and rear to 30 and then the front to 45, then the rear to 45. See what happens. From 45, tighten the front to 65, and then the rear to 65. On a rifle which does not have a rock hard bedding or a stiff stock, the torque values can make a noticeable difference.

Use some strong copper solvent such as Barnes to thoroughly clean the barrel.

What bullets have you tried with it so far?

What is it chambered for?

What is the twist rate?

The one and only variable I know is not a problem is you, and I mean that sincerely.

Unless you just see it as a personal challenge, send it back to the builder and let them figure it out. They gave the guarantee, they should fix it.

Who built this rig? We should have some transparency.

What I would do. $8K for a rifle it better shoot 1 MOA, a worst, with a hand load.

Jeff, It's a custom 7 Rem Mag, 1:9" twist. I started with the 195 Hybrids. I was getting round holes while I zero'd the rifle at 100. At 200, the 195's were going in [censored]-eyed (not key holing, but definitely not round holes). So, I drop down to the 180 VLD, which is a 1.51 stability factor according to Berger at 2950-3000 fps. I'm running H1000 in the sweet spot area where every 7 Mag I've ever shot shoots well with a 180 VLD touching the lands (not jammed, just touching). When doing a load work up, a good rifle will follow a pattern in the groups when increasing the powder charges in .3 to .4 grain increments. This rifle has no pattern at all, and is throwing shots all over the place in random fashion. Most groups have a vertical or diagonal string to the group. And the group location will change- meaning one group may impact slightly high and right. The next group may string left and high with no scope adjustment. So, the groups are stringing, and the location of the group changes.

Chad, i know you know way more than me, but your post reminded me of a custom i had built that did nearly identical grouping. After all was said and done, turned out to be a non squared crown. Some food for thought if not already verified. It was the the best 2 shot grouping riflte i ever owned lol. Best of luck

With 1:9" 175's are the reliable top end.

Berger 180's VLD's are right on the edge, might work, might not.

175's will work fine. Berger and Sierra 168's are really nice bullet and too often overlooked.

Try H4831sc.

The beauty of the 7 mags, RM or WSM, is they can step on the gas pedal with 160's and do great at 1,000, and with noticeably lighter recoil than 175 - 180's.

Lots of folks like the Hornady 162's, but I found they had too much variation in bearing surface length, 0.007" in a single batch. Sierra and Bergers were mostly within 0.003". Bearing surface length made a noticeable difference on long range targets.

If you want some high bc 176's, I still have a few Cauterucios tucked away. I ran 1,000's of them through 1:9". G1 bc of .725 @ 2880 in a 1:9".

I still say there's something wrong with the rifle. 1:9" ought to run 180's without a second thought. Berger even lists that twist as minimum.

No pattern at all in the POI is a dead giveaway, in my opinion.

I've had a similar problem twice, with random grouping. It was the scope both times, first being a Nikon Monarch 4-16 and the second being a Leupold VX2 6-18. Neither time were the groups so bad that my first thought would have been about the scope. The problem got slowly and gradually worse.

There was no vertical or horizontal stringing of groups, just random grouping. About drove me crazy, but I was smarter the second time, and swapped the scope out quicker.

Scope number three is an old refurbed Leupold VariX III 4.5-14, and my problems appear to be over.

If it isn't the scope, it's the rifle. Pretty darn sure it isn't operator error.

I tend to agree, was just sharing suggestions. I still say send it back and let the builder solve the problem.

Yessir.

If I was the builder I would want that phone call, because I would want to correct it.

I like the swap scope idea, something sound loose or something's touching where it shouldn't.

If it shoots good at 100 then goes crazy at 200....

is there a chunk out of the crown>>?? barrel need to be scrapped maybe


THis will be fun to see what it is

I would say this is typical for a 7mm Mag but I'm sober and trying not to TROLL as much.....

After 5:00pm all bets will be off

Self restraint is way overrated, Buzz. Let er rip! JG needs the stimulation anyway.

Truly a well designed custom rifle. You fellows have no idea how difficult it is to have a rifle lay out perfect spirals in one hole at 100 yds and then automatically begin keyholing at 200 yds. while randomly placing all bullets within a paper plate.

I saw his bait.

dang, not even a nibble.......Have a fun Saturday night everyone !!!

OOPS just listened, IT's TIME!!! how can you not crack one to that song!!! That and Jim ED Brown's "Pop A Top" Alan's is pretty dang good too!!

Chad, I believe you are borderline in the stability department if you using 180 grain bullets in a #9 twist barrel, I suggest you try to go lighter to 168 to 175 and try another load and see if it improves. Just a thought.

We like to run the 160s in our 1/9 7mags. I would also say I saw that I had that exact thing happen one time to me and it drove me crazy. We replaced the barrel action on the build to meet the timeline, and when we had time I went back and piddled with it cause I was really really curious, that was the only one I had seen in 300 barrels that had done that to me. Had it Cryoed as a PRS shooter at the local range mentioned he had a gun do that and Cryo fixed his. He was right and the gun went to banging holes in holes. Its like the barrel never got 100% relieved and the barrel was non fluted. Steel is steel some times you have those weird sections. But you have to catch them when they do, don't care what the barrel brand is, anyone can have an issue.

That's my take - if they have a guarantee, it should come with a target to verify. How much $ and time has Chad wasted trying to figure out what the manufacturer should have confirmed before the gun ever left?

Would love to see picks of the gun. If it is a Fierce rifle (little google got me there) My understanding is those rifles are from John Mogle (guy that left Christensen arms) I believe they are in imports from canada? I think they are like a Canadian vs of a Sako from what I understand. When companies get large and go straight for box store/ dealer market and are paying the large FET fees its harder to catch them all. Especially if you are importing them.

I'm guessing a bedding issue.

It's unbelievable to me that any custom rifle maker worth their weight would not provide a proven load workup with a target. I have an HCR and a McWhorter, and they both have loads/target included. One thing I've noticed is that when you get a properly built rifle with a good barrel, it will shoot a wide variety of bullet weights/powders very accurately.

As to the 7mm Rem Mag comments, I've been shooting them since 1979, and reloading for it since 1986. I seldom have trouble finding 1" or better loads for them. RL22 and 160's is usually the sweet spot for my rifles.

Is that model even bedded?

Derrick, they do have a bedding similar to the Sako 85 rifles, from what I understand. It has some kind of a small 1" recoil piece that the front of the action sits in. I've not seen this type before. When you tighten and unscrew the front screw, you can hear it creak and make sounds inside the stock.

is that the one that they make in canada?

No clue. I have an RA and will send it in.

It's kind of funny they don't shot them. Even a cheap production rifle like the Weatherby Vanguard is shot at the factory for accuracy. They used to send the target but quit doing so a few years ago. But they still shoot all of them. they are put in a machined rest and shot 3 times for group. More than an inch and they go back.
I have bought 2 1/2" guns and one of them never did get yo an inch. I finally got a different gun from the company and promptly sold it before I shot it.

Hhprecision guarantees 1/4moa. That's a lot for a rifle package that cost $3871.

Chad, would a company that provides a target with the rifle use a vise to shoot the rifle for that kind of accuracy guarantee?

When did they start doing 1/4 moa. This is off their website

"we guarantee every rifle we produce to shoot 1/2 MOA in 30 caliber or smaller and 1 MOA anything over 30 caliber. We test fire every rifle before it leaves our facility. We will send you a copy of the target shot with your rifle, complete with load data, and ballistic information. If the rifle does not meet our accuracy guarantee we won't ship it! "

Sorry thought you meant hs precision I have never heard of HH precision. What ammo is that with?

No idea what ammo, their website isn't very good. They are advertising in all their TV commercials 1/4moa

Cool I have seen 1/4 Guarantee before but so many of them are with their load that you buy from them ether way . Going to be fun to see what this industry looks like in a couple of years. As everyone seems to be trying to get in it, got 2 emails this week from kids looking for information as to how to start their own custom gun business after graduation. As the lower price builders meet that 50 gun FET requirement and have to pay the 11% to uncle sam going to be interesting. Fun to see the growth in the long range shooting and hunting.

Should have bought a Tac Ops rifle. Guaranteed to shoot 1/4moa with FGMM, that's factory ammo!

Cannot find anything on Tac Ops website about a guarantee.

MY vote is a land and groove issue somewhere in the barrel....

Once Tony got a barrel that wasn't 7mm and wasn't 30 cal. Come to find out it had been rifled twice. The barrel maker made it right with a prompt replacement.

Agreed

My Steyr SSG P2 came with a 3 shot target and 1 ragged hole.. Still in the box in the safe.. .make offer. Probably the best .308 ever made.

Denny

I see what you did there, with your handle. Bravo sir!

Exactly. Say it slow, with a southern drawl........

I guess I"m dense.

SMDH... Look it up in urban dictionary

S my own DH

Did the Colonel receive orders to change the handle?

Savage, stock, factory, out of the box, Leupold 3-10x VX-III, 308

Nice shooting.

Savages are a great value.

What was the final verdict?

Update- Company could not get it to shoot either. They are going to replace the barrel. 3-4 weeks out from delivery.

You would think they would shoot it before they let the customer have it. Guess that's too much trouble after taking several thousand $ from someone.

Besides replacing the bbl, is the company going to do anything else to 'make things right'? The gun owner is out several weeks and you are out the ammunition you wasted, all because they couldn't take the time to check it before shipping.

P_102

did they state what was wrong with the barrel?

All they said was that they could not get it to shoot well either. We asked for more details, and none were provided. They just said they were going to replace the barrel and it should be complete in the next 3-4 weeks.

Not to great of turnaround time for replacing a barrel

Understand! With all the possibilities even centered on the barrel it could have been different issues. Sometimes even the best steel doesn't work. When we were drilling a well at 12000 ft and the pipe twisted off we always wanted to know, especially when the well was $3-5 million and new decisions had to be made.

Understand blackcoal...you comparing a 3-5 million dollar decision to a barrel job that is < 1k.

Any custom gun I've ever bought was extra to have the gunsmith break it in and do load development...plus, I want it broke in my way. I'm impressed and glad they stood behind their work.

Judd, I said I understand, and could have used numerous examples. With all the possibilities discussed, I was only stating it would be interesting to learn what the problem was with the barrel. Heck, maybe they don't even know.

Also, the price of stand of drill pipe compared to the cost of a well is much different than a barrel cost compared to a rifle. But I imagine there are a few others that would like to know what was wrong.

It would indeed be nice to know what the problem was, though I'd be surprised if the gun maker would tell us.

I hear the test ammo was made by a guy thats caught up in a lawsuit??¿

Not any more!!!!

Just messing with you! Glad you got out of that deal

I can't help thinking of Tommyboy anytime a guarantee is mentioned.

Agreed...I would doubt they will ever tell you and probably don't really know. Bad barrels happen, I know of a few and some are taken care of via the manufacturer with never a real explanation.