AR type rifles are exactly like a High Lift jack...

Before you go to use it saturate it in oil.

I've said for years that every High Lift jack sold should have a can of WD 40 attached to it.

Sorry, just my country boy way of relating things together.

So what tools are handy for cleaning up the bolt on a LR 308? I just took it out, wiped off all the carbon, and reoiled. I know that was fast and nasty but I was in a hurry.

You shooting it suppressed Jason? Mine gets absolutely filthy shooting suppressed. I actually get a small plastic tub and fill it up with break cleaner and let mine sit in there then use a plastic bristle brush like a tooth brush to scrub it and let it sit some more. Then take it out wipe it down, then let it dry. Make sure and lube it back up afterward that brake cleaner will take all the oil/lube off it.

Yes, the suppressor makes it filthy very quick.

Every person I have seen shoot them suppressed all day had better stop ocassionlly, pull the bolt, clean and oil. If not the rifle will lock up, especially in my presence.

Yea when I took your class mine was getting really close to locking up by the end of the day. Think I went through about 120 rounds and it was getting gummed up pretty dang good.

are you disassembling the bolt? Need to very simple and quick.

They do make AR15 bolt scraper tools but idk if it will work on a 308 bolt.

Direct impingement.

- A giant step backward in the design of automatic and semi-automatic rifles.

Our troops deserve better. If you've seen video of our troops throwing down a malfunctioning M16 and picking up one from a dead comrade during a firefight, you'll understand precisely what I am talking about.

Got to a piston system if you want run a suppressor

Or just take care of the one I have. Cheaper that way.

I don't even own an AR, but I thought alot of guys run them dry because the oil attracts dirt, and turns to sludge.

Grease will do that. I've seen way too many problems of accidentally running one dry. In fact my AR-15 bolt literally broke in half from lack of oil.

Yep as long as you take care of the DI guns they will last a life time. You abuse them and they could break just like any other gun that isn't taken care of. I actually prefer a DI gun to piston gun. Had a POF piston 308 before I got the CMMG and like the CMMG better.

I don't know of anyone who runs an AR dry for very long. Lots of guy are using all sorts of concoctions to keep them lubed for the high volume run and gun events. Very popular mix is 1/4 Mobil 1 ATF, and 3/4 Mobil 1 10/30. All synthetic.
If I am volume shooting in the field I spray foaming CLP, wipe it off, go back to work ( you can never get it all out...and you don't want to ). First round after a spray down blows a bunch of oil everywhere

BTW, you can read the history of the M16 jams. As I recall it, too much calcium carbonate (Stabilizer and flash suppressant) which clogged the gas tubes. They were reformulated with reduced calcium carbonate and most of the problems went away. Also there were ignition issues with the early ball powders with the retardant coating working too well, and lots of powder residue resulted in very dirty guns. The solution was simple, they mixed in uncoated particles and the powder ignited easier and burned more completely.

I'm gonna mix up some of that. Preciate the tip!

Probably be just as great in a bolt action.

I run Frog Lube on all my guns, stuff is great and makes cleaning a breeze. Piston driven runs much cooler, and since you're running it suppressed you are getting a lot of heat and trash blown back into the action. Don't run WD40 as it attracts dirt and gets gummy real quick

I heard Vagisil works really well. Ive never tried it though. I typically just use whatever I have at the moment. Have used hoppes, rem oil, motor oil. I did make the mistake over lubricating one time and that was just messy.

In Afghanistan I use to cover my bolt and bolt carrier in Chapstick. When it gets dirty just wipe off and apply new. Never had a malfunction.

I pour liberal amounts of tranny fluid on all my guns, and rarely wipe any carbon/oil mixture off.

Lots of gimmicks

DOT 5 brake fluid works great to coat your bolt. Just clean and de-grease the bolt,and soak it in DOT 5 brake fluid,it's a silicone based oil. You'll be able to just wipe off all the carbon deposits with a rag/paper towel,no scraping.
I've never tried soaking the carrier in it,but the carrier doesn't get that dirty.

How many rounds are we talking about firing between lubrication getting these ARs to lock up?

^^^ Agreed. I have NEVER scraped the carbon off an AR bolt. It hurts nothing and is self limiting. I get what I can off with clp and lightly oil the internals.... never worry about it.

50-100 when suppressed.

2 cycle engine oil best bolt lube there is . Ar-10's love it the more the better. I keep it on my 243 AR and it runs like a sewing machine . Let it get a little dry and I start having some ftf issues. This is my truck gun and it stays in my ranch feed truck and it gets a little dusty but I keep the dust cover closed over the bolt and it stays nice and clean. No pampering that rifle just a little oil every few months and it's a stone cold killer.

Wow. Thats bad. Never seen one do that. Guess the owner will have to carry a bottle of lube and drop some in between mag changes.

I'm not a high volume shooter like some of you folks. My AR's generally don't shoot more than 300-500 rounds each in a day - and that's limited to when the kids/grandkids are here! They do get hot in a hurry, but I never have problems with ftf/fte's, and cleaning is always easy using the old school type stuff that I have used on my other guns for the last 40-50 years.

But, I do tend to run mine wetter than what a lot of folks suggest.

I was instructed to oil just a few points or places on an AR, and to leave the rest alone.

The Mobil One synthetic oil is definitely a winner, it is great on firearms. Mixing a little tranny fluid with it will thin it down a bit, make it penetrate a little better. - I use it as it comes, it has a lot of staying power and will not dry up so quickly as a lot of the other oils.

I tried using dry-moly lube on my AR, it seemed to work OK but is messy if you get any of it on you. I never tested it with a lot of rounds though, I always shot mine deliberately, like a rifle.

You don't shoot much, do you?

I think so many of you are missing the suppressor factor. They significantly increase carbon deposits into the action. Fire one round from a clean action and bolt, with a suppressor, and the carbon build up on the top two rounds in the Mag is pretty heavy. That is an indication of how much junk gets into the action with a suppressed AR.

Did you put bad mojo on another AR? You are the Schleprock of ARs. Must be a left hand thing.

IMHO, there is nothing special about cleaning an AR bolt. Dissemble the BCG and use your M-Pro 7 to clean. Re oil with a good gun oil (liberally inside the BCG) and you should be good to go. No snake oil is needed.

Kyle and I may need to perform an exorcism on your rifle is this continues...

Mine has not broke down, but it did get sticky to clear the action. Two hands on the charging handle and the butt stock on my toe, sticky. That was yesterday evening. Cleaned and oiled this morning and the rifle ran fine this afternoon.

Once or twice a week, weather permitting.

It is true that I have never been a big 'spray and pray' fan, I get my kicks shooting groups, a paper-puncher.

Lol Jason is the crux of AR's. I shot mine all day long without failure let him shot it one time and it fails to feed lol.

Yes, a suppressor is basically a muffler - and produces some back-pressure as all effective mufflers tend to do.

I've decided to treat them like the mustang in the pasture. We will come to an understanding, and live in peace.

Haha

I think you are missing the reason for a piston system.

I'm not missing it. You are missing the fact that I already own a direct impingement rifle that I got a fair price on, and have already developed a hand load for. All it needed was a trigger, which it got today, and all it will need in the future is oil. Which I always have in the truck, in the hunting pack, or in the shop.

Do you have an adjustable gas block? I can imagine how much extra carbon you have to deal with using a suppressor.

Not yet. Joe Bob's was all out, and Midway was low on choices yesterday. I found a clamp on, and may have to go that route. It's ejecting at 2 o'clock, so I am getting too much gas into the chamber.

Bingo.

Hope you are buying Syrac, only one that stays where you set it

Syrac is the brand that is in stock. I was little concerned about a clamp on, but thought it was worth a try.

They are the only one I found that has detents for each setting, the other have nothing to keep them from backing out, making you continuously adjust it. I highly recommend spending the little extra for the Syrac or put clear fingernail polish behind the adjustment screw

Good to know. I also read that it is adjusted from the front. I can't understand why there would be any other design, with as many free float tubes people are running.

I have one syrac gen II, and 2 SLR sentry. I like both so far, the SLR are very nice with click detents in between each setting. I've read the SLR have good customer service and you can disassemble the little leaf spring detent and clean out the carbon if you need to, though I haven't had to do anything to any of mine yet.

As far as clamp on, I like them. You don't have to worry about set screw dimples, and I don't see having trouble with it moving, especially if the block is under your handguard. I had a WOA barrel cerakoted black, and believe it or not the thickness of the coating made it so that the set screw block would be way tight going back on. So I bought my first SLR clamp on.

Good info.

Jason I got my Joe bobs dialed in last time I was at the range. It does suck to have to take the rail off to tune it, but I'm only tuning it once. This one has a set screw and then it has brass screw you screw into the steel screw locking it down. I don't see it going any where but haven't gotten to shoot it enough to really know.

That was then, this is now.

I love my black guns and so do my 3 girls. I have a good friend on this forum that's still active duty, 2 tours in Iraq and Afghanistan and he bought and built his own AR. What does that tell you about the guns now?

Agreed. Having carried one for 20 years now (currently in Afghanistan), I own a few. To be sure, the first M16s were problematic to say the least. But as far back as the 90s, the only malfunctions I saw first-hand were magazine induced (usually worn feed lips), or a result of using blanks. But I think some folks need to join us in the 21st Century.

Video here, NSFW due to language, but it's a pretty telling example.
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/12/15/15000-rounds-counting-ar-15-torture-testing-now-sand/

Thanks for the video, Kry226. In your experience, what is the lube and cleaning process that works best in your dusty environments?

If I have it handy, I like Mobil 1 5w30 and keep my M4 pretty well lubed...BCG (except the bolt face) and even the buffer and spring.

In my situation, I keep an old barber's shaving brush or a 1" paint brush to keep the dust off and optics lenses relatively clean. A can of compressed air is helpful in a pinch too.

I run a bore snake down the bore on occasion and sometimes keep a plastic cap on the flash suppressor to keep the dust out.

The oil does attract dust, so I just periodically wipe her down and re-lube, but it's really not necessary. The old NCO in me won't let me walk around with a dusty weapon.

Easy peasy. Hope this helps.

Thanks Kry226. I am surprised such a viscous oil is used by so many people but it obviously works. Stay Safe!

I use Break Free CLP in my AR's. I will clean and lube around every 500rds, including my 3 gun AR which I run pretty hard. Other than 2 light primer strikes from the same box of M193 I have never had a malfunction in any of my AR's. Then haven't run them suppressed yet. I only occasionally will shoot steel cased ammo which really gunks up the entire rifle much, much faster.

If you run suppressed, you probably won't get near 500 rounds without cleaning and oiling.

I can get about 250 rounds out of my 223/556 suppressed before I start having problems. No where near that out of my 308.

Es verdad. Just a couple of suppressed rounds will have your rifle dirty as hell.

Thank you, sir. Some folks (including me) have used synthetic tranny fluid with good results too. Definitely thinner than the 5w.

Heck, we used to use GMD grease on our machine guns too.

I've started to see a pattern regarding steel-cased ammo in AR's. Customers bring in AR's with a case stuck in the chamber, and so far, it's been a steel case every time. Thinking back to my use of steel-cased ammo in my M1A, I remember the polymer coating building up in the chamber on that firearm. I never got a stuck case, but I did have a chunk of polymer build-up fall out of the chamber one day, which coincidentally was the last day that I ever ran steel-cased ammo through that rifle.

If the barrel might happen to get hot, the chances of the polymer building up in the chamber, then melting so that it acts like glue becomes more and more likely. The steel cases that I have removed tend to have black spots on them. - I'll stick my neck out here and suppose that the black spots are molten polymer mixed with filthy black combustion byproducts from the steel-cased rounds.

So, the black crud from the cheap powder in those shells is only half of the merry-go-round. Also, there is the problems that accrue from polymer build-up, and the unavoidable fact that steel rubbing on steel will cause more wear and damage than brass rubbing on steel could ever do.

Considering the cost of a new barrel after the chamber gets wallowed out, or of paying some fellow like me to remove a stuck case, one has to wonder if the steel-cased ammo is really such a bargain, after all.

I know that I'm all done with it.

Would you care to elaborate on the brands of ARs in which you've seen this occur? Some brands are notorious for having small chambers from the factory.

Right now there isn't much of a price difference between the cheapest brass and the steel rounds; given that I'm not shooting that much I'll always shoot brass. However, somebody did a torture test on it and it was something like 6000-10000 rounds before there was a notable degradation due to running steel. If the price difference was a nickel a shell, at 6k rounds you've more than paid for a new barrel.

I think they have fixed the polymer/lacquer coating melting problem. But it does foul up the chamber very quickly. I think it's due to the poor neck expansion causing improper gas sealing. I see accuracy begin to decrease after about only 20rds.

I really only run it in a pinch. I think I forgot ammo last time and that was all I had with me. But I agree when I can get brass for under $0.35/rd shipped it's just not worth it.

Uppers come from all over the place. Kind of hard to blame the lower receiver for what the upper does. I cannot reliably say whose uppers or barrels might have been involved. I ID the lower receiver brand and serial number for the transaction book, but that is not the information that you are interested in. Based upon my experience, I never assume that all of the parts to any AR come from a single maker. - Mine sure don't.

When I decided to eschew the steel-cased ammo, I still had around 600 rounds left. They went with me to the next gun show - but they did not come back home with me.

Very true, sir. Thanks.