Short, Heavy 308

Lately I've been fascinated with an idea, a rifle with a short (18") bull barrel.

Nothing 'tactical", I'm thinking of a sporting rifle, hopefully even good-looking.

In my imagination, it would handle well, be good in the brush, but also be accurate enough for longer shots, out to 300 yards at the most with a .308 and 165 grain spitzers.

A compact 2-7 scope slammed down to almost touch the barrel, a sporting stock with the barrel channel opened up...

I know that there are a few short bull-barreled 308's on the market, and hope to hear from owners, get their impressions on how they behave, and also any building advice.

My idea is to buy a regular .308 bull-barrel rifle and cut the barrel down. There may be a better way to go.

Any information on this while I am still in the planning stage would be greatly appreciated.

I have a Rem 700 AAC SD 308 with 16.5 barrel. Shoots lights out with 165 or 175

I have a Mossberg MVP in 308, heavy barrel fluted, adjustable trigger, box mag (5, 10, 20 round), bolt action.
Looks like the Ruger Gunsite but not the expensive. I like it. Haven't tried to stretch it out pass 200. It is already 18".

So bash on the guys that know their chit about ballistics, say a short barrel rifle lacks "performance", pass judgement on those of us that know how to make any barrel length work, pass judgement on those of us that know how to hit things target or hide far away, then ask for input on a rifle build? And you're a rifle builder...

F-ing really?

I bought the Savage 10FCP-SR. It has a 20" threaded heavy barrel. It has the accustock and trigger. It's an awesome rifle right out of the box.

JR,

How does it feed with the plastic mag? I've been thinking of getting one. I have a Precision carbine in 223 and a lightweight stainless in 308. Both are incredibly accurate with almost any load right out of the box.

Beat me to it.

I don't use the 10 round that came with it. I purchased the 5 round mags from midwayusa. I have not had any issues

Was waiting on it.

Yet his website only lists a few basic, general services. Rifle builder...I doubt it. Can't even crown a .30 cal barrel in his "shop".

Has his little girly panties in a twist.

Sober up, JG... Take the ignorant attitude somewhere else.

Love my 20" SS Remington 308 dubbed as a LTR. Believe it or not in 2009 Remmy made a special run of 100 and here is one of them. Short bbl rifles make perfect stand guns.

I'm thinking about handling qualities, have you been happy with the way it feels at the shoulder?

One theory I've developed is that the short, heavy barrel should be good for coming up fast, and then holding steady. - Does it feel that way to you?

Honestly, you'd have gotten a much more pleasant and informative response if you hadn't chosen to be a complete jerk on that LR chat.

May I suggest a higher fiber diet?

I don't claim to be a rifle builder, bash competent shooters, then ask questions on the THF I should already know the answer to, being a rifle builder.

Who's ignorant?

You better go to a 338 federal or another larger bore. They are more efficient in a short barrel according to you. 300 yards with that short of a barrel is getting unsportsmanlike.
Quote from you on another thread. cartridges tend to the neighborhood of 100-150 fps per inch. This chart claims that eight. Are you sure you can't deal with all that velocity loss? (Velocity loss is not correct. Just quoting him)

Waiting for a civil, intelligent reply.

Just ignore the trolls. They'll go away if we do not feed them.

Ok. So how effective will it be if you lose 300fps from a 20 in barrel or 900fps from a 24 in barrel or 12fps from a 26 in barrel? Again using your numbers.

If you want semi, after some initial frustration, my fnar with a bar stock is shooting consistently sub .75" 5 shot groups at 100yds. Its got a 20" barrel and im now very pleased. Havent done any LR grouping because it was very persnickity at the onset. Im guessing chrome lined barrel had something to do with it.

The FNAR's are nice, one of the very best but I am looking to use a bolt gun for this.

I already know what hardware I intend to start with, either a Howa barreled action, or a Weatherby Vanguard with the heavy barrel if I can find a used one that is priced right. The main difference between the two is that the Vanguard metal will be finished differently from the Howa, and the Vanguard will come with a plastic stock that I will proceed to remove and replace.

I am uncertain about the scope, I know that I want a 2-7 compact variable but have not decided between Leupold and Ziess.

Here I am asking for comments about the handling qualities of short bull barrels in the field, more than anything, and the kind of stock designs that seems to work out best with them. - I may step away from the thumb-hole stocks that I generally prefer, this time around.

One issue is that I will either have to do a good deal of whittling to lighten up a Varmint stock - or open up the barrel channel on a Sporter stock. I much prefer Varmint stocks for shooting at the range of course, but the same features that make a Varmint stock great for firing prone and from the bench would make one too heavy and ponderous for lugging around in the field. - I'm a fair chase hunter, so camping out in a blind in front of a feeder is not on the itinerary here. I have camped out in blinds in the past, and it's a good way to get the venison, but I find it more enjoyable these days to be on the hoof, moving around seeing the country in the sometimes forlorn hope of outwitting the game in its own element.

My theory, still untested is that a short bull barrel should be great for running shots and impromptu shots that often have to be taken without the benefit of a support or stick. As we all know though, reality does not always cooperate with theory. I'd like to hear experiences from hunters who have stalked either game or varmints with short bull barreled rifles.

How does it work out in the field?

Man, some people just dig themselves deeper and deeper. Running shots, impromptu shots, no rests... Seems like that would increase the likely hood of a wounded animal to a figure greater than "as low as humanly possible"

Check out the Remington SPS, barrel is 20" so it may be longer than what your looking for. Its short accurate and a nail driver, it makes a great blind gun.

Waiting for a civil, intelligent reply.

Just ignore the trolls. They'll go away if we do not feed them.

I just wanted to go ahead and answer that for him with his standard response for anyone questioning the master gunsmith.

so a running shot is more "sportsmanlike" than a LR shot?

Yes, by a wide margin.

A fellow here in town recently bought a Savage model 11 "Hog Hunter" in .308 that looks very nice. - I am not crazy about the Hogue rubberized stocks, but stocks are not as expensive and time-consuming to replace as they used to be.

One interesting thing about the Hog Hunter is that it is available in .338 Federal, a really excellent short-barrel cartridge choice. The barrel on the Hog Hunter is heavy, not a bull barrel but still pretty thick.

I've kind of had my run with Savages, but this one is tempting.

Except a running shot is one that can hardly be practiced at any gun range. How would you know with certainty that the animal would not suffer at all after you pulled the trigger?

This just keeps getting better.

It is sad, but not surprising that the troll poster here has no knowledge of how to practice for running shots.

He's a 'long range game shooter' as opposed to being a hunter, his idea of 'hunting' is to be so far away from the game animal that it cannot possibly detect him. You know - the type who wouldn't know sportsmanship if it slapped him upside the head.

Looks like it's not much of a step from being a "long range game shooter" to being a pathetic troll with nothing intelligent or civil to contribute to the discussion. Good old JG is proving that, over and over.

Wow, Charles. I didn't know you knew more about my personal hunting than I did myself. That is truly impressive. I had no idea I was a "long range game shooter". Interesting you say that about me, as only 3 of the deer I have ever taken were taken with a rifle. The rest were taken with a bow. My custom rifle that I designed to shoot long range has only had the pleasure of shooting a few hogs at less than 50 yards, yet I routinely practice shooting at distances in excess of 500 yards.

Keep on bashing people who ask you questions. Seems to be a good strategy.

Oh my god. Now I know you don't even believe what you are saying. .

From where do you get these alleged facts?

You been spying on my hunting for the last twenty years?

I'd love to see the evidence of these claims.

need a refill

I have been advised to ignore the troll posts for a while.

Anybody have anything relevant to the topic that does not involve a personal attack or harassment?

When trolls take over a discussion, it winds up being all about them, and readers who actually want to enjoy the forum are prevented from doing so.

Ok, relevant to the topic. Seems to me that if off hand, standing shots are the goal, you'd be far better off with a light contour barrel than a heavy barrel. Gunna be easier to hold an off hand shot steady with a lighter rifle.

I go back and forth on this. Sometimes it seems as if a little extra weight helps me get steady and slow the wobble. Other times I hold a lighter rifle steady for longer. I think its a balancing act. Long varmint barrels are too heavy and sported barrels are too lite. I've come to like a heavy sporter barrel if its a 26". I have been contemplating cutting my varmint barreled 243 from 26 to 16.

You may be dead on about balance. That's probably has just as much to do with it as anything.

I keep thinking back to my old blackpowder Hawken rifle from way back when. That thing was really great for off-hand shooting.

Wow, those shots you describe are ethical sportsman shots that don't increase the chance of wound and lost game?
And all of a sudden 300 yard shots are OK?
I can't believe you came back with a post like this. Are you bipolar?

Balance, and stock fit make a big difference. One reason that I tend to lean toward the thumb-hole stocks from Boyds is that they always seem to fit me pretty well.

Edited decided to be nice

Above is spot on.

I have Contender rifles with 16" bull barrels and use a thumb hole stock fitted to me, long pull. It works well for offhand shots. Short barrels are great in the blind or walking in the forest.
Sure there is a velocity loss but if I am going to need more range or knock down I will use a different gun, I doubt may on this forum have only one rifle.
Cutting a normal sporter weight barrels to 16-18" can leave a pretty good diameter, cut the fore end also so it looks right, pull butt pad and drill out wood till it balances.

Mark

I know a gentleman who hunts extensively with a short barreled Contender in Europe. All of my TC experiences are with the pistol version, shooting NRA Hunters Pistol Silhouette, and this was some years ago.

What I'm looking at now is an 18" bull barrel in .308 Winchester, for still-hunting whitetails.

I work for a gun smith, we make a lot of Contender and Encore barrels, rifle and pistol
We recently did an Encore rifle in 308 Win, 18" with just a slight taper (looks better). With a Leupold 1.5-5x it was sweet handling and looking.
Would be perfect for still hunting.
Compared to a bolt gun a single shot starts 5-6" shorter with same barrel length.

Mark

My 16.5" Contender gets mistaken for an SBR from time to time.

I disagree with this, lighter rifles are easier to pack around, but I find a heavier rifle is much easier to shoot off hand or on a bench for that matter.

Damn you. I need one of those now.

Trolls he says

That's a rather serious looking little rifle. I bet the pigs don't like it one little bit.

Texflip that's puuuuurdy

I agree on a bench without a doubt, but I have a harder time holding heavier rifles as steady on an off hand shot. Personal preference I suppose.

These last few threads have had me rolling, trying to keep my mouth shut, between this one and the long range hunting one.

Maybe everyone is right.
A heavy rifle is hard to hold up, especially for a long time, and will tire you out carrying it. But holds steady with a rest.
But a very light one ican be difficult to hold on target. But you won't be breathing heavily from carry.
I have found about a seven pound, scope and everything, is a good compromise.
If I am in a blind or stand, have a rest, can deliver the rifle by truck, heavy doesn't matter.

Mark

A buddy had one of those Mossbergs at the ranch this weekend. Sweet little rifle. His barrel looked like 16" plus a flash hider. Said his buddy bought the Ruger at the same time so they could compare them. He said the Ruger was a better gun and he wishes he had gotten it, but the money saved getting the Mossberg was really nice.

This has been my experience as well. If the rifle is light, holding it still is much more of a chore for me. The rifle that I shoot best offhand these days is a Savage 93R17 BTVS, a 17HMR that I have owned for maybe five years or so.



Right now I'm building it's big brother from a bull-barreled Howa in .223 with a 1-12" twist. The .223 works out much better when there is a crosswind, and has more authority for small predators like coyote or bobcats.



Once the barrel is reduced from 24" to 18", it should handle much like the little 17HMR does.

For the 308 version, I'm thinking of changing the formula a bit. Maybe a sporter-style stock with the barrel channel opened up for the bull barrel might work out better. The varmint stocks are pretty heavy to drag around with you all day, still-hunting for whitetail.

That reminds me of the year that I got a chance to hunt from a stand, and the only thing I had set up was a Ruger M77 varmint model in .280 Remington, with the 24" bull barrel. Hauling that thing across the ranch at 4:30AM was a chore, and was no fun to climb up into the stand with.

Right after sun-up I heard some turkeys behind me, walking along the edge of the scrub-oak woods. By the time I hauled that Ruger around to try for a shot, they had spotted all of the movement and evaporated.

I didn't get anything at all that year - but I got plenty of exercise!

Since I gotten into still-hunting, I haven't thought of it but a short bull-barrel would be pretty good for stand hunting, too. - Easy to move around at any rate.

how about you stop trolling people and being an [censored]... You have added nothing of value to this sight

Sober up? Hmmm. I'll just leave this here.