Kimber rifle ?

opinions? accuracy? customer service?

I'd go Cooper over Kimber.

I didn't have a good experience with the one I had. Maybe if I was a handloader I could have made it do better. Word in reading around is they can be hit or miss.

I didn't like the one that I had. Had great looking wood on it but it did not shoot as well as I would like for something that expensive.

I dont see the value in them

I've shot and handled several and for whst you get I think there are better options

Sounds a lot like their 1911s. Nice but over priced for for what you get.

Pretty much. Cooper and Nosler make better rifles for the same coin

It all depends on what you're looking for. If you want a really lightweight rifle that looks good, the Kimbers are in a class by themselves. I have an 84M Classic Select in .260 and an 8400 Montana in .325 WSM. Both shoot quite well -- right at or slightly under 1 MOA. They are like any other factory rifle: some shoot well, some don't. There are no guarantees with factory rifles. Yes, the average Cooper will likely outshoot them. I have 2 Cooper M21s that are spooky accurate. On the other hand, Coopers are much heavier. I like Kimber's tiny little mini-Mauser like action. Kimber fit and finish is pretty good. The Montana version has what I believe is the highest quality synthetic stock you can get on a factory rifle.

If a Kimber doesn't shoot, most often the culprit is the mag box binding in the stock. If that's the case, simply sand the bottom of the mag box so it isn't tightly sandwiched between the bottom metal and the underside of the action, putting stress on the action. A little bedding in the front receiver ring doesn't hurt any either. Most factory rifles can benefit from a little TLC to get them to shoot at their best, so this is nothing unusual and is an easy remedy. From what I'm seeing, the current production Kimbers are better than they were a few years ago.

I think they are nice rifles for what they are. You have to let pencil profile barrels cool a bit more between shots to get the best groups at the range. In the field, you appreciate the lighter weight.

thanks, had heard negs about the Kimbers, so now its between cooper (my 21 is great shooter) and nosler patriot

Keep in mind that a lot of the negative you hear is from people who don't own one. I have 2 of them and haven't experienced the negatives folks talk about, nor has 2 of my friends who own one.

From my experience, the Coopers will definitely shoot better on average, but they will also shoot better than most other factory rifles too. They're nowhere near as lightweight, if that's an important factor for you. The Kimbers are the lightest factory rifles made. Both have great triggers. The Nosler rifle is nice, but it's also more expensive, and about a pound heavier than the Kimber in the same chambering. Weight may not be important to you, but is worth mentioning.

A lot depends on which chambering you want, whether you reload or shoot factory ammo only, and which bullets you plan to shoot in that chambering. Both Kimber and Nosler used too slow a twist rate on some chamberings.

I love Coopers, but I'm not so enamored by their big game rifles as I am their rimfires and varmint rifles.

I have just read too many negative reports to take a gamble on one over the years.


Cooper will make a light gun if you ask.
Mike Hudgins built me a light 25-06 a few years ago.

I love the Nosler rifles.
I have a Trophy Grade 280AI.

Do you consider coopers nosler and kimber factory rifles?

When I hear factory I think Winchester, Remington, ruger, savage etc.

To me cooper kimber nosler etc. go in a different category.

I don't have a Cooper or Kimber but have all the rest. The most accurate I have out the box without using my handloads is a browning A-bolt. I prefer rem 700's Tikka's.

The most accurate rifle I've owned with factory loads was a Browning A-bolt stainless stalker in .300 Winchester magnum.

With Federal premium 180 gran loads, the first three shots out of a cold, clean barrel went into 1/2 inch, each and every time.

Kimber is most definitely a factory rifle. I would call Cooper and Nosler "semi-custom."

The former is a factory rifle in every sense of the word, in that it has limited to no options available, and is made in high volume on a production line with little hand work.
Cooper and Nosler are semi-customs because they are made in lower volume with some hand fitting and a choice of options, but isn't a full custom in that you don't get to select each component of the build and don't really get to select a unique stock design. You have limited choices on what you can get.

Cooper does do some custom work, but you are still limited by their actions and their barrels.

"Accuracy" in a factory rifle is always a crap shoot. Name any brand of mass-produced factory rifle at any price level, and someone out there has had a bad experience with it or got a lemon. That just goes with the territory with anything mass-produced to meet a price point. It's human nature for folks to elaborate more about bad experiences of something than good experiences, and people tend to remember and repeat the bad more than the good.

Then, there are those who are unwilling or unable to tweak a rifle to get it to shoot its best. I realize that when you spend a lot of money for a rifle, you should expect that the little details are taken care of and the thing must shoot. That's all fine and good, but the reality is that it doesn't always happen, and usually the tweaks needed to correct whatever ails the rifle are simple, easy to do, and inexpensive. There are very few of my rifles that I haven't tweaked in some way to improve performance, whether through epoxy/ pillar bedding, trigger tweaks, recrowning, removing material in the forend so the stock isn't binding against the barrel, shortening the forward-most mount base screw so it isn't contacting the barrel threads, etc.

Bolt action rifles are very simple mechanical devices. As long as you have a fundamentally good barrel, most any bolt action rifle can be made to shoot well. So, if I find a rifle that has good ergos, handling qualities and other features I like, I never rule out buying it based on a smattering of negative anecdotal evidence because I know from past experience that there's a very high probability that I'll be able to get it to shoot well, and for me, that's part of the fun.

Accuracy with any rifle is the product of a good barrel, optimal twist rate for the bullets you're shooting, optimal throat geometry for said bullet and magazine length constraints, stress-free and tight stock bedding, a decent trigger, and optimized loads for the system. I've heard all the Kimber complaints. I initially had issues with my 84M .260 not shooting to expectations. The solution was to sand a bit off the bottom of the magazine box so it wasn't binding between the bottom metal and underside of the action, a little bedding in the recoil lug area, and tweaking my handloads. Easy, inexpensive fixes for an otherwise sweet handling, beautiful rifle. Now, it shoots under 1 MOA. My 8400 Montana .325 WSM shot fantastic right out of the box with no tweaking whatsoever.

I'm a Cooper fanatic, and if the very best accuracy is paramount, they are hard to beat right out of the box. My Kimbers won't quite shoot with my Coopers, but then the former are 2LB lighter rifles with pencil profile barrels, so it isn't really a fair comparison. Coopers and Kimbers are two totally different rifles with different design philosophies and they both excel in different ways. The Nosler seems like a nice rifle from the samples I've handled, but I've never shot one, so I have no basis of comparison. It's more expensive than the Kimber, though.

Here's my Kimber 84M .260. It was cranky at first, but well worth the TLC:

'Dude...well said. And a most beautimous piece of Kimber Porn indeed.
Ron

Good info rifledude. Sweet rig.

I believe a rifle with that MSRP should out the box at least shoot close .5 MOA. Just under 1 MOA with handloads, bedding, trigger job, etc is not satisfactory. I respect the work you put in to the rifle and the beauty of it don't think I'm disrespecting you but I would have thought Kimber would gurantee some at least 1MOA.

The few Kimbers I have shot lived up to the sub MOA guarantee without any work. Love Coopers and wish I had more of them, the ones I have shot had no problem being sub 1/2 MOA.

RifleDude that was a good post and spot on IMO

No disrespect taken, friend.

Kimber now does have a 1MOA guarantee on their rifles, incidentally, but I pay no attention to those "accuracy guarantees," because there are always strings attached.

I've shot tiny groups as small as .3 MOA with this rifle before, but I don't consider it a .3 MOA rifle because my standards for accuracy levels are more stringent than the average hunter I run into. I don't like talking about what precision level my rifles will shoot on the internet because when I do, dozens of people generally come out of the woodwork to tell me their Howa/Remmy/Ruger/Winny/TC, etc will shoot "one hole groups all day long...if I do my part." I run into folks like that all the time at the rifle range. I've bet several of them $$$ they couldn't demonstrate that to me, and I've never had anyone take me up on that bet. I'm not at all saying you fall into that category, and maybe you've been extraordinarily lucky to buy nothing but 1/2 MOA rifles. If so, I wanna know your secrets!

What I am saying, however, is that if a rifle won't shoot multiple 5 shot groups into 1/2MOA, repeatedly, more often than not, day in and day out, and continually agg at 1/2 MOA on demand, it ain't a 1/2 MOA rifle...by my standards. An occasional tiny group doesn't count, because luck could be involved. 3 shot groups may indicate a particular level of precision, but again, it isn't a true indicator statistically. I've never seen any rifle that shot 5 shot groups just as small as 3 shot groups out of the same rifle. 5-shot groups are statistically a better indicator of a rifle's precision, and multiple 5-shot groups even better. I know plenty of folks who shot a group with all rounds touching who saved the target so they could show all their friends. When they show me, I usually ask them to do it again. They usually can't, because the target in question isn't a true representative of what their rifle will do day in and day out.

By that standard, very few factory rifles at any price are true 1/2 MOA rifles. I know of no brand or model of factory rifle that is a consistent, true 1/2 MOA shooter, all the time. If it can't do it more often than not, it ain't a 1/2 MOA rifle. I've seen very few shooters capable of consistently driving their sporter weight, factory rifles to 1/2 MOA either, and I've seen a lot of shooters. Obviously very few of the shooters I see at all the rifle ranges I've been to actively post on the internet.

In this case, we're talking about a 5-1/2 lb pencil barreled rifle. 1/2MOA is a pretty tough standard for such a rifle, no matter the price tag. In this case, a Kimber 84M costs about $300 more than a Remington 700 CDL, and from my experience, I'd say the average specimen from both series shoots to about the same level of precision. The difference between the Rem 700 and the Kimber is the latter has nicer fit and finish and nicer wood on average. Plus, the latter has a livelier feel and a more refined stock design, IMO. That's where the extra $300 goes toward. When it comes to factory rifles, retail price is almost never proportional or in any way representative of accuracy potential. Some of the most accurate factory rifles I've seen were inexpensive Savages.

I shoot a lot, and own a lot of rifles. If you're getting a consistent 1/2 MOA with your "non-custom," mass-produced rifles, then you know tricks I don't and/or you're a much better shooter than me.

Wow, refreshing talk there.

I think a lot of peoples groups disappear with their lead sled.

Went and shot the other day trying to work up a load... new range relatively new gun it was frazeling. Not happy with how the gun fits me so far as cheek weld etc. yet know dang sure even if the gun was capable of 1/2 moa I was not.

that's funny, i've done the same thing

a few of my shooter friends made fun of my Ruger and Winchester ( guns have been tweaked )
but when I said

"take your best rifle and if you can shoot a tighter group you get my rifle or vice versa" or a $5000 bet

none of them have ever taken me up on it

I was thinking about getting a kimber but I have almost talked myself into a Winchester featherweight instead. Still not sure. They seem pretty similar but I haven't got a close look at a kimber yet.

The three most commonly over-hyped claims in shooting/hunting:

1)I won't own a rifle that is not a 1/2 MOA shooter;
2)Every animal I shoot is always DRT; and
3)I never miss.

4. I shot that deer at 800 yards.

I then ask them how many mils or moa of dope they dialed in their scope for the shot. "Huh?"

They are similar in that both have Mauser style claw extractors, CRF, 3-position safety, and standing ejector. That's where the similarity ends. The Kimber action is scaled down considerably vs. the Win 70, so it is much lighter, without sacrificing strength. This, combined with a more slender barrel profile and more slender, shorter stock results in the Kimber being about 1.5LB lighter in the same chambering.

The Win 70 FW is a nice rifle, and I think the newer FN built ones are better than the ones made by USRA in New Haven, but I personally believe by any measure, the Kimber is a nicer rifle.

if they're using one of the scopes with 800 yd hash mark then none

like a ZEISS RZ8

This thread is beginning to remind me of the days when guys I knew drag raced on west Glenfield in front of the Del Monte Green Bean plant for car titles or some other really expensive Prize that is TMI to talk about here... about 6 blocks west of Stevie Ray Vaughn's house...in deep southwest Oak Cliff where I grew up.

Dunno many guys who'd shoot for a chance to win or loose the rifle these days. Just Sayin'
Ron

I've had two .243, two .308's, one .223 and one .25-06 all kimber montanas. The .243 and .25-06 had to take a trip back to kimber for work. Both had stocks and barrels replaced and came back shooting great. I have a .243 left that shoots great even with a 1# suppressor on that thin barrel, but it is cut down to 18". It sucks they take a month to correct their problems in a new rifle, if they have to be worked on. On the Montanas, when they say bedded, its not actually bedding to the one action, they use a slave action on every stock, so its not a precise bedding job, but i guess better then none. I don't know how they bed the wood stocked stuff though. I always said if i wanted another light rifle i will buy a tikka and get it bedded in a lightweight mcmillian stock, that would make one bad nice shooting rifle, for close to the same price.

Center punched it.

I bed all my bolt action rifles anyway, whether they need it or not, so factory "bedding" doesn't remain for very long after it comes out of the box.

Factory rifle accuracy is a crapshoot. You're just about as likely to get a rifle that doesn't shoot to expectations from any of the major brands. If you know this going in and know how to correct issues yourself, it lessens the pain. Unless there are obvious, major QC issues with a rifle, I will never send one back to the factory, as I've always worked on my own guns and to me, a factory rifle is a starting point. I will say I've seen a higher % of Coopers that shot lights out right out of the box, but again, they are really "semi-custom" rifles.

A buddy of mine has a Tikka T3 in .300 WSM that is a marginally decent shooter; nothing to write home about. I've seen Tikkas that shoot like a house afire and several that didn't shoot very well at all, so even though they do have a reputation for being good shooters, there are no guarantees you'll get one.

Tikka T3 Lite ($650) + McMillan Hunter's Edge stock ($635) = $1285.00, or roughly $200 more than a Kimber Montana. The resulting combo will also be about 1LB heavier than an 84M Montana.

I shoot a lot, and own a lot of rifles. If you're getting a consistent 1/2 MOA with your "non-custom," mass-produced rifles, then you know tricks I don't and/or you're a much better shooter than me.[/quote]

Sounds like I hit a nerve I totally understand. I'll admit I don't know much about Kimber rifles or their gurantee and the majority of my rifles are in LR application, heavy barrel, after market stock, trigger, etc. I do the same as you shoot alot and have a few rifles myself. I also work in a gunsmith shop on my off time to pass time and to spend time with my dad. One of the things that intrigue me is some of the customers that have custom built rifles bring their guns in for a new scope, trigger, handloads, etc. and they do shoot better than some of the "non-custom," mass-produced rifles that we have. For reference we shoot them out to 800yds not just zeroing at 100-200. Now, there is a difference but in my experience however, none I've shot have made a world of difference. I know it has alot to do with the smith and the shooter, I'm not the best shot but shoot alot or more than the average Joe. With that said I've been salivating over a custom rifle but justifying investing that kind of coin is hard for me to swallow.

I'm happy with 2 moa.