What caliber?

Long range shooting has peaked my interest in the past few months and I'm starting to plan the purchase/build of my next gun. This is just the early planning on my part since this gun isn't going to come over night. The boss lady (wife) says I have to plan/save up for this one, since I figured it would cost me a good bit.

I got to shoot an extended family members suppressed .243 bolt rifle out to 400 yards and haven't stopped thinking about a new gun since then. I know 400 yards isn't very long range, but before I shot his, the longest shot I had taken was 150-175 yards. Shooting this gun is what started my new found obsession lol

Primary use will be whitetail hunting and shooting at the range, but I would like to be able to shoot elk with it as well.

My initial thoughts on caliber was a 7mm mag, but I wasn't sure if there was a better option out there. I do want to suppress it, shoot out to 1000 yards, and keep in mind about the hunting I said above.

Suggestions?

I hear a lot of good things about this 6.5 creedmore and long range, but is it elk worthy? I have zero experience with elk hunting, but that's changing this October I will be taking my 30-06 this year, but in years to come is what I'm planning for.

Oh, just thought I would add that it will be a bolt gun. Thanks in advance for the suggestions.

Throwing elk into the mix makes me lean towards the 7mag more than anything smaller. However considering that elk hunting will probably comprise less than 1% of your hunting/shooting needs I would probably still look into something like a 6.5 CM, 6.5x55, 7mm 08, 280 rem.

300WM can do some nasty stuff at distance.

So these are still perfectly capable for elk at decent range? Not saying I want to shoot an elk at 1000 yards, but something better than the guys that say "oh I shot an elk with my 243. Get you a 243". Not looking to start that war ha

Only reason I ask, I don't have any experience with those calibers what-so-ever. Just trying to expand some knowledge. My knowledge of calibers are basically limited to 22-250, 25-06, 30-06, 7mm mag and that's it.

Everything is a give and take in shooting. The larger the bullet, and the faster you push it, the more energy and the more recoil you will have. 300WM with a high BC bullet for long range has some stiff recoil unbraked. The smaller 7mm bullets will have a little less recoil. Same with a 6.5mm. A well placed shot with a 6.5mm bullet will do fine for elk. I would get a caliber that will allow you to practice enough to get proficient with your rifle and ammo. Most shooters get a rifle that they only put a few rounds down range with. Find a caliber that will allow you to shoot it often enough without breaking the bank and allow you to practice with it year round. A good 6.5mm or 7mm is fine. I love a good hard hitting 300 Win Mag for me, though.

Unfortunately the best scenario involves two rifles.

The rifle to learn on being a short action with low recoil. The 6.5 Creedmoor is an outstanding choice for that. I have one and really enjoy shooting it, but I don't elk hunt with it.

I elk and Mule deer hunt with a custom 7 Rem Mag shooting 180 gr Berger VLDs. But it costs more to feed, recoils more, and will have a fairly short barrel life. It hits like a train, and is fun to shoot, but I only bring it out on special occasions.

To get good at shooting distance you need instruction and lots of practice, which puts us right back to a short action, such as the 6.5 Creedmoor, or 7mm-08. You could kill elk with them rovided you maintained a maximum distance rule for yourself, and used a good stout bullet.

Then there's one more option, dipping into both sides of this spectrum. That being a 6.5-06 or a 280 A.I. It's got more recoil than the 6.5 Creedmoor, but not as much as the 7 Rem Mag. Either of those would be a dang good choice for the "one rifle man" scenario.

The 280 Rem would be a very good one. The 6.5-06 would also be great, but you would have to hand load or have someone like myself load the ammo for you. One of these days I will have a 6.5-06.

My general thought process is this. If a 270 is considered an acceptable elk round then a 7mm-08/6.5CM/260 rem/6.5x55 should also all be adequate for the job.

How's recoil on the 300 win mag vs a 30-06? Are they decent to suppress? Suppressing is something I've also been trying to read more into and still learning about as well.

Which leads me to the next question. A gigantic factor is shooting small and shootinf far is very consistent ammo. Do you load your own?

If the answer is no, then you have three options.

1. Add the purchase of the handloading equipment to the bill.
2. Hire Chad to develop a load for what ever chambering you decide on.
3. Get a 6.5 Creedmoor and buy Hornady ammunition.

Yep, there are no flies on the 7mmRM for big game up to elk and moose. With it I took 3 of my 7 bull elk and 2 of my 4 moose. But I have to tell you, of the eleven animals, not one was taken over 285 yards. My biggest moose, from the Hoholitna River country of Alaska, was taken at some 14 steps!

You can go to the link below and play with the recoil amounts. It really depends on the weight of the rifle. The 300 WM will have more recoil than a 30-06, since it launches the same bullet about 150-200 fps faster.

You can easily suppress a 300 Win Mag. You just have to get one rated for a magnum round. I'd recommend a Crux Suppressor (Templar Tactical). Curtis builds a 308 Win can and rates it for 300 Win Mag.

The main issue I have suppressing a 300 Win Mag is pressure and recoil. I run a stiff load on my 300 WM with a 225 grain BTHP at 2802 fps unsuppressed and 2920 fps suppressed. This load is a hot load suppressed, and I don't shoot it much. But it shoots freakin' awesome. To run a 300WM suppressed, I would normally back down the load so it's safe with the can on, which means my unsuppressed load would be a mild to medium load. The suppressor adds a lot of back pressure to your rifle, bumping up the pressures. So a normal load is now a hot load suppressed.

On the recoil, a muzzle brake has a quick recoil impulse and allows me to recover from recoil very quickly. When I shoot suppressed, the recoil impulse is very long with a large shove, and I can not recover from recoil as quick. So, I prefer to shoot my 300 WM braked.

http://www.handloads.com/calc/recoil.asp

Yall all type too fast lol.

I'm also about to start reloading and realize that will be a whole new learning curve.

All of what yall have said so far makes perfect sense in regards to using 2 different guns instead of 1 gun for it all...which may eventually happen. I'm not too terribly shy of bigger recoil, as I'm not a small guy. But smaller recoil is never a bad thing lol. I have shot 1 gun before and after a brake. My uncle had, I believe it was a 280, and the brake did change the recoil quite a bit from what I remember. The only reason I don't like brakes are how loud they are.

Essentially what I'm trying to do is put my 30-06 into the gun safe so I can pass it down to one of my kids or grandkids when the time comes. It was passed down to me by my grandfather and its a heck of a shooter, but it has a lot of sentimental value so I don't want to booger it up with a whole lot of use.

This helps a lot. I've got someone that can teach me the long range shooting at his house, but I cant afford his arsenal. It seems he has a different gun for each animal
I would like to come up and take one of your classes at some point after I pick up a gun, though.
You and Chad are helping me out a lot so far. Thanks for all of the info thus far.

Sounds like another thought is get a 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5X55, 7mm-08...(there are many others) and keep the 30-06 for the kids and an elk hunt if and when you go. The others will recoil less allowing you to shoot more.

If the elk variable wasn't in there, I'd vote 6.5 Creedmoor

That's kind of what it's sounding like from what Fireman and Chad are saying.

There's nothing wrong with a 7mm-08 or a 280 Rem pushing a 162 A-max, 168 Berger VLD, maybe a 180 VLD.

6.5 Creedmoor

Elk hunt with the .30-06 you already have.

By the time you buy the 6.5 and quality glass, reloading equipment, and suppressor, you're going to be looking at a steep bill. For not that much more you can add a decent 7mag or 300 WM that you can swap the scope to when you decide to go elk hunting, since from your tone seems like it's not going to be an every year deal. Or just borrow a rifle when the time comes, or break out the '06 for some nostalgia.

In order to learn to shoot LR you'll need to shoot lots & lots & lots of ammo...and learn to reload to keep that ammo at a "reasonable" cost.

I'd suggest thinking about building a LR rifle in a 7-08 - less recoil & powder per round and GTG out to waaay out there with good bullets & a Hunting rifle in a semi custom long barreled 280AI or 7RMg set up for longer shots at eating kinda critters...and use as many of the same 7mm caliber based components as possible to keep the supply list as short & plentiful as possible with common powders/bullets/primers etc.

Like KMon sez ...The 30'06 is always a good choice for the kids, for Elk & ?? bigger critters with reloads tailored for a specific job & as a back up for Hunting & be able to "buy ammo anywhere" yadda yadda
Just a thought
Ron

What would be wrong with 308 win?

Nothing. It has a medium BC and isn't fast.

A newbie has lots of misses especially with a .308 due to wrong wind judgement. Once you get to 400 on my range, your 5 mph wind hold with a .308, puts you holding off target. The 6.5's and the 7's are still holding on target. So there's more forgiveness with the higher BC and faster bullets is all.

But the barrel on a .308 will last a crazy long time.

This is the most sensible answer.

At the risk of getting flamed, I will tell you that you will never shoot an elk, or any other North American big game, at over 400 yards....and probably less than 300 yards. So while it's nice to dream about LR shots at game, in real life it won't happen.

Now, there's nothing wrong with playing the LR game, and ringing steel gongs out to 1000 yds will be great fun and invaluable practice. And there's nothing wrong with building up a dedicated LR rifle and shooting away; after all we boys MUST have our toys!

But when the bullet meets the bone, a sporter-weight bolt gun with a 2x7 or 3x9 scope (or even a fixed 4x or 6x) is the time-honored and proven recipe for the perfect hunting rifle. Chamber it in 7mmRM, .300WM, or even the ubiquitous .30-06, and go forth!

I would go 7mag and learn to shoot it.

If you are not hunting elk often, I would use the 30.06 you already have.
I would choose your next gun in what you are going to use it for the majority of time.
Of course, you can't ever have too many rifles in my mind. My 2 cents

My answer for a new shooter on a budget is the 223ai. Assuming the shooter will reload, of course.

Simple, cheap, and ballistically relevant.

buy up a few thousand 75 or 80 grain amax's. 82 bergers wouldn't be bad either.

Range time and rounds down range trumps all, and the 223ai will allow more of it.


I wish someone would have given me this advice way back in the day.

Use the 30-06 to hunt.

You guys are helping me out a lot and I appreciate all of the suggestions. From what the general consensus is saying, something along the lines of a semi-custom 6.5 creedmore or a 7mm-08 seems to be the most logical. It could be the primary go-to for general hunting (whitetail, hogs, coyotes, etc.) but still get the job done on the range, all with fairly low recoil, although my 30-06 doesn't bother me all that much on recoil. I will pick some good optics once I get this thing started. Like I said before, it'll be a slow and steady build over time or it'll be a little while before I can get someone to just build it for me and do it all at once. The boss lady has a strong foot, but I wouldn't give her up for anything.

So 6.5 cm vs. 7-08? Pros/cons of either? I've noticed some have talked about barrel life. With knowing I want to suppress (which will shorten barrel life I've been told due to extra pressures) which would outlive the other? What are your thoughts on a 7mm short mag?

There's no telling how many rounds have been through my 06, but its not shot out or anything. So with the 6.5cm and 7-08 in mind now, I'll just add another larger caliber to the stable afterwards, and make the 30-06 the backup elk gun. I've got decent optics on my 06 currently and a 3 shot group in a quarter at 100. This was when sighting in the new scope with some factory Remington core lokt 165gr. Not too shabby with factory rounds.

7-08 delivers a tad more energy.

6.5 Creedmoor has a tad less wind drift. I have one of each.

I can't get on board with a .223 A.I. for a man on a budget. Get a big boy rifle. Get a .223 A.I. when you need a prairie dog/ varmint/ trainer rifle for positional shooting.

I have (or should I say I got my wife) a 22-250 for this. She even shot a pig with it last year, but I've been having issues with what it will stabilize on factory ammo in a decent grain bullet.

No flies on either of those. Tough choice, both are good rounds. Have a couple 7mm-08s and been shooting one since 1982 so a little partial to that caliber since it has always done what I have ask of it. The Creedmoor seems to be the darling of this forum these days and is a good cartridge with a little less recoil than the 7mm-08 when using the better long range bullets for each. Tough call on which one. If you thought you might want to use it on bigger game like Elk would go 7mm-08 if not probably the 6.5 Creedmoor or 6.5X47 Lapua.

600 75 grain amax bullets for a hundred dollar bill.

around 25-27 grains of powder

cheap brass.

next to zero recoil.

affords lots of practice. Steel doesn't care about energy.

8.3 mils to 1k. Sounds familiar does it not? granted wind is trickier, but this is all about learning.

Shooting about 4-5k of 223ai on a decent range, and I guarantee you will become more proficient.

22-250 usually have terrible twists for shooting 75+ grain bullets. No thanks.

You will probably go through 3 or more 22-250 barrels before shooting out a 223ai. No thanks.

I tell people all the time. Whatever caliber you are shooting, learn to dominate 800 yards and in.

223ai is perfect for this. If you can manage a 80-90 percent hit ratio on .75 moa UKD style targets inside 800 yards, you have mastered the prone position. Time to move on to barricades, kneeling, standing, etc, etc.

Until then, keep practicing.

Also has no recoil to learn how to manage.

I'll repeat myself. A GUY ON A BUDGET should skip it. Get a rifle that'll nearly do it all, and that would be something .308 down to .243

Exactly. It'll shoot 55 grainers all day long, doesn't matter what brand of factory ammo it is. I found some Federal Premium BTSP in a 60gr and it sprays it all over the target. The cheap Winchester Polimer Tip Rapid Expansion in a 64gr though shoots amazing though. May just have to try some pigs on those to see how they work out.
I grew up on a 22-250 as a kid, so i'm very familiar with its capabilities. My grandfather used to load some 63gr bullets, but not sure what actual bullets he loaded.

8.3 Mils to 1k.

Who gives a chit about eleavation? No one has fun bracketing a target with wind misses, and that's exactly what you'll get pushing a 75 A-max outside 600.

I push that same bullet out of a .22-250 well above .223 A.I. speed.

1:14" twist 45 gr to 55 gr bullets at lightening speed.

They have tiny BC and will be subsonic 500-600 yards out Been there, done that. Would rather have an old slow .308 to take long shots.

I will admit this. Most people interested in long range shooting don't stick with it. It's a couple times to the 1k line, a few hits, and they have accomplished there goal. In this case, a 223ai isn't the best caliber. Almost any off the shelf heavy barrel rifle will accomplish that goal.

If however, if they want to become proficient. I will take more range time with cheap ammo every time. We will have to agree to disagree.


I learned this lesson several years ago when I had a great match with my 6.5, but still lost to a plain jane 223 shooting 82 bergers. At the end of the day, jpipes still had more hits and more points than me. Pipes was the only guy in the field shooting 224 bullets. Lots of 6mm, 6.5, and 7mm to be found out there that day, including mine.

I just enjoy shooting. Not looking to compete, at least not that i'm planning on. I have 2 1,000 yard ranges within about an hour away. Like above, something I can shoot well with and kill something with, depending on my location at the range or in the stand.

I never said the 223ai better than a 6.5 creedmoor, x47, 7mm-08, 6creed, etc, etc, etc. That would just be silly.

I said the 223ai is cheap to load, and has enough ballistics for the job.

FWIW the real inexpensive 7-08 ( especially when bought from SPS in blems) Nosler BTip 120gr 284's are built a little heavier in the jacket- uses the 140gr BT jacket- and penetrates about like a NAB or NPT and can be run a little faster than my Hornady #9 shows for their 6.5 120-123gr CM loads. In short action 6.5's though I favor a 260 for no other reason than multiple sources for brass. 260 brass can be formed hassle free off of 243 & 7-08 brass too.

Nozler #7 in a 7-08 out of a 26" 9 twist barrel shows 'em at high 3100/low 3200's @ 5-8% overfill %'s and avg about 3K fps in 100% fills of around 43-48 gr's in several powders. I'd think the 9 twist barrel would not be as a good an 8 twist...Ask FJG, Chad, Dee or some other folks with hands on history about this though.

Either caliber will work I'm sure on Texas sized critters. I just hate being dependent on a single source for any component though after the last couple years of shortages.
Ron

Yeah Pipes has put in the time and done very well with the 223 A.I.

I've also put more points on the board repeatedly because I was running a 6.5 mn 140 gr A-max at 2800 MV

Me too

Most any factory 7mm08 will have the twist needed to run the 168 and lower bullets which are a perfect ratio of case/bullet weight. As mentioned above there is not much of a difference in 7mm08 and the Creedmoor. The 7mm is a even with the Creedmoor in drift or better unless the 6.5 is running a long barrel and 140 hybrids. The downside is a touch more recoil.

I just faced the 6.5 or 7-08 question. I chose 7-08. Simply because I will hunt with it often. It carries slightly more energy down range. Really not enough to count but I've been very impressed with my other 7-08s ability.

6.5 Grendel will get you to 1000 yards with less powder consumption and recoil than all but the 223AI mentioned in this thread. Trajectory to 1k is less than a mill from the 308 even with loads burning 28.5 grains of powder.

Long case and barrel life are added benefits of this little round.

M14 (M1A) worked for me 44 years ago, ruined a few peoples days with it at long range.

surprised allot of people are saying the 6.5 creed can't take down an elk. an elk is not some armored creature with unicorn powers and a 6.5 creed will drop it in its tracks. everyone get's all spun around the axles about what cartridge can do what and the answer is they can all do a variety of things depending on how they are used. a 6.5 creed will drop an elk without issue, so will a 6.5x47, a 7-08 and an endless list of other items.

ford/chevy arguments are almost as useless as caliber arguments..... or discussions, whatever you call them.

Recoil shouldn't be a problem in either 6.5 or 7-08 given the likely finished weight of what sounds like more of a bench rifle than a sporter rifle. I put a box through my Ruger American Standard in 7-08 and hardly noticed the recoil, and it's a fly-weight IMO. Add 2-5lbs and recoil will be virtually non-existent. Also, doesn't the suppressor help as well?

I've heard suppressors help some, but I don't have any experience shooting the same rifle while it was suppressed vs. while it wasn't. The only time I have shot a suppressed gun was a .243 and it didn't kick at all, as it shouldnt.

This was my take. I would rather have a gun perfectly suited to 99% of what I intend to use it for and adequate for the 1% than have the perfect elk rifle that may never make it up a mountain. I feel confident that a 6.5 within reason and practical distance is a perfectly adequate elk gun. That said ive never shot one.

...re: 6.5 not enough gun for Elk...
Leased from a guy in Hamilton County long time ago for couple years that ate venison year round from hunting the "Long Pasture" using a 22lr...he just hated getting fresh white or yellow paint on 'em after the road crews had been thru...sez it made'em harder to hide from the GW's...

Goes without sayin' that Shot Placement ALWAYS trumps bullet weight and MV's....however I always have opted for using the heaviest bullet at the fastest speed & flattest trajectory available for the job at hand... and given this choice of SA length 264 x's a 284 I'd pick the 284 10 times out of 10....'specially on a Hunt for critters that weigh over 400 lb live weights that cost me some serious bux and had limited access for a Mulligan....and still believe in my 270 being more than adequate for shots under 400 yards for everything south of Grizzley sizes.
JMHO & YMMV
Ron

Bingo. A combo of what you just posted and what others have posted about the 7-08, I'm starting to sway a little towards the 7-08 just due to a slightly larger punch. Who knows, a 6.5CM may eventually be added a few years down the road as well. Thanks for all the help guys.

Here a couple of dual duty calibers 6.5 win mag, 7mm short mag wsm or how about 6.5\06.
The 7\08 is a great white tail round but not enough energy for elk.
Their is another question do you reload.

I will be reloading by the time I get this rifle, yes.

The only bullet that was not a complete pass thru from the 7-08 so far was found in the off side hide of this pig after taking out both shoulders. We never weighed the pig but it was healthy.

140g fedral fusion from above pig. I'd say it did its job.

Nice sized oinker

X2 the 7mm08 is more than capable of a elk caliber.

I have a 308 Win and a 300 Win Mag - have never shot a 30-06 much so I can't make a comparison there. Between my 308 and 300 I perceive little difference in recoil despite knowing in reality there is a significant measurable difference. The specifics of my rifle configurations are certainly a factor in not realizing much difference.

Hope that helps a little bit.

-Mickey

How about 280 Rem?

Over the years, I've owned several rifles in both .30-06 and .300 WM. I've shot both of them a lot, as well as hunted with both. In similar rifles, the .300 kicks noticeably more.

When you're working up your loads at the range, it's a good idea to use a sissy pad like the PAST to mitigate the recoil; it's even a good idea to do the same with the .30-06. But when you're in the field in hunting situations, you won't notice the increased recoil. Even with a .338 WM or .375 H&H, the elk, grizzly, or eland in front of you will render the recoil moot.

My old Model 70 .338 WM is a dream to shoot. More of a shove than a blow. It's amazing how some calibers and some rifles don't have the heavy recoil one would expect and some calibers/rifles have much sharper recoil than one would expect.

I have this opinion I really like a 7mm bullet I shoot a 7\57 for deer.
I use a 7mm wsm for mule deer. Since I reload I like a large case capacity for more velocity and energy.
The 280 I my opinion is better than 7\08 since it has more case capacity.
I can put less powder in a large for a lighter load, If I need the speed and energy I will fill the 280 case full.
My last rifle is a cz American in 7\57 mauser. My only reason for buying this was a shoulder re build and the need for low recoil.
I have seen a lot suggestions I recommend the 280 over the 7\08 due to velocity and energy.

Here is a helpful question for your choice.........Lets say hypothetically, your in the woods close to a tree with a 6.5 CM and 7-08 both loaded propped against the tree both at your reach and there's a grizzly bear in front of you about to charge.........which gun would you grab? 6.5 loaded with 140gr 7-08 loaded with 168gr.

My uncle had a 280 and something was haywire in the safety mechanism and would literally shoot as soon as you would take it off safety, without touching the trigger. I know this isn't the case with all 280s or any particular gun and could possibly happen to anything, but it just put a bad taste in my mouth. I'll eventually get over it though.

Piqued not peaked.

complete carp shoot. Aint going to make a difference which one you pick.

Which ever my hand hit first. I've dispatched a cow with a 380 to the head from 10 yards away. At 100 yards are less I'd say 140 vs 168 is more then enough...with any caliber it will be bullet placement

Bobo I just grabbed the first one, just shoot one!!

Grap the one with less recoil. You don't want to hurt your little shoulder.

you guys are great. I would have at least pumped 15 rounds of 9mm into it first

300 WM is first choice.
280 if you are adverse to recoil (like me).

ZK ...the old 280 that would fire when the safety was taken off SAFE that you posted about couple pages back, was most likely a Remington 700...they've had Recalls on their safety's way too many times to count for this exact problem regardless of caliber...and have a 'nuther one right now as I recall that has $12 million bux allocated for THIS Recall is what I heard... but I could be wrong too...
Ron

All this talk about 280's is sure makin'me wish I'd paid more attention to what my Granpappy said in 1967..."son...you want somethin' bigger than that 243 I sold you? go get a 280, 'cause the boolitz fly better than the 270's everbody thinks is the best thing to hunt deer with..." and that's a direct quote.

Remembering those words of wisdom...I went and bought a 'nuther NIB 270 last week, only in a "Peasant Rifle" of a TC Venture @ 1/2 the price of my SS T3 to quote Dave Petzal of ?OutdoorLife to burn up the inventory of 8-9-K? 270 bullets on the shelf, that I don't/can't sell sometime in the next couple weeks...look for 'em for a steal of a deal.

May sell or rebuild the T3 into a 280AI or ??? dunno which yet, but the T3 270's been boxed up and awaiting it's fate, and the Venture will get one of the new Vortex or Burris scopes that was allocated for this Tikka to give it a fair shake and we'll see if the TC shoots as advertised or not at normal hunting ranges.
Ron

I want a .280AI. I have about as much need for one as I do a third eye. But I still want one.

This very well could be the case on my uncles 280. He went through guns back then like most go through underwear. I realize it's something I may just have to get over but I just got a bad taste for it. It like going to a really good restaurant and getting one plate of bad food. Kind of makes you not want to go back again. Same situation for me


Sounds about like me wanting something that is suppressed. I don't need it, I just want it haha

How many of the Remington safety issues were caused by redneck gun smiths?

My dad has a 280 rem it also had a issue with the safety. It wouldn't fire when you pulled the trigger and then a little bit later it would just go off.

He took it to a "competent" gun smith and the culprit was.... in the almost 30 years he has owned the gun the bolt had never been properly cleaned and lubricated and a bunch of dried up grease and gunk was causing the firing pin to stick when the trigger was pulled until it finally let loose on its own. It was cleaned and the problem has been gone for more than ten years. When he took it home I looked up how to properly disassemble and clean/lube the bolt and we have never had that happen again. I wonder how many 20, 30 year old and older guns out there that have never had the bolt cleaned?

Yes sir I think your description of the problem is correct. But to me that is still a defect...note they have changed the safety design on the Rem 700's. Gunsmith and $20. solved the problem for me.

If you need a make/model consultant let me know.

Why not just go with a 7 rem mag if your considering 280 AI? Brass is easier to find and not a lot of difference

Less Recoil at 10-15+ mebbe 20% less powder and only loosing 100+fps MV's with MaxMax loads X's a 7RMg that ususally needs to run close to Full HOuse and noted for "wierd" pressure spikes in less - or the bottom half of a 5gr bracket - than Full House. Besides Nosler sells factory formed AI brass that is actually cheaper in the long run with all the FF'ing cost computed in if push comes to shove finding brass.

For me, this'll prolly be a low volume shooter so 2-300 rnds of brass will last me a lifetime at 2-3k+ estimated round count on game & load ladders over the next 6-8-10 years. Found a source for pulled/over run Federal Fusions in 500/1000ct quantities's @ SPS BT blem prices with 284 160gr NIB OR's in stock right now that'd do for at least half of the estimate...taking a lesson from FJG to buy all the same Lot# components at the same time for the est'd life of a barrel....snooze Ya looze.

Saw somewhere about reforming 30'06-25'06 ?? brass into 280 1st, then FF'd into the AI shoulder with a cheap bullet and minimum powder charge. PIA for sure, but gets you around the shortage and into WW & better euro brass too. Nobody ever said being a rifle looney is time or cost efficient.
Ron

Im sure if you stoke the 280 AI and compare it to a stoked load in 7 rem mag there is still more than 100 fps dif. I am however a 280 fan.

7 Rem Mag pushing a 180 gr. 3050 fps.

So how fast could I make a 168 gr go? Which is what I'd put in a .280 A.I.


Back on topic, I still stand beside my original statement. Learn to shoot precise with a short action. Once you're 80% hitter, graduate to a bigger cartridge. I spent 4 years behind a .308 Win and a .260 before jumping into a 7 Rem Mag. Crawl before you walk, walk before you run.

thanks Fireman. This will probably be what I end up doing. Getting something in a short mag, have some fun with it, and use my 30-06 for elk if/when I go. I'll eventually end up with another bigger cal later down the road which will more than likely be a 7 rem mag.

OK.

I really need to fill that hole between my two .270s (Win. and WSM) and the .300 Win, don't you think? I mean, I'm feeling kinda exposed up in here.

Sure you do. I know you used to get the HF raffle tickets and thought to yourself.."self, that Borden Rimrock in a 280AI would be a fine rifle. They shoot them out to over 1000yds so I bet they'd shoot well for me 0-400."...you're right, self, you're right.

Yes I have an undefeated record in all my cases styled "NP vs. NP".

I can see my consulting skills are still top notch if I can make it all your idea.

I had a partner like that once. Have an idea, he rejects it out of hand. 2 days to 2 weeks later it's the winning argument - and it's a dang good thing he thought of it too with all the lazy-a** associates mouths he had to feed.

I get a lot of practice.

There's always the more readily available Kinber Mountain Ascent.

I'm out on those.

If the young ones keep up their success another Nosler may be in my future.

Ugly camo pattern?

Naw, I had a Montana that I couldn't make group with anything. I'm not much for second chances on rifle makes.

Load development is a necessity with them it seems.