Tight grouping without sled or bench?

Ok I see all these pics of nice tight close groups. Is everybody shooting from a bench? I don't use a bench or sand bags. I will sit at a picnic table with a backpack that has misc hunting stuff in it. Get as comfy as I can and shoot away. So I guess I wonder is what should the grouping look like if it is more so the shooter vs a sled or bench? And I really need to get a sled cause those close groups look fun. I usually shoot 100yds cause that's all I really about all I can get on my place when I hunt

Bench or prone with a bipod and rear bag.

Bench with bipod and rear bag as well. Have never used a sled or anything like that.

Maybe I should try a rear bag. Them tight groups sure look nice. I'm not missing by any means it's just not tight.

I don't like the sleds, I use front bull bag and rear sandbag. From bench or from shooting pad

Prone, bipod, rear bag provides the most stable position for me.

There is technique to it though. Make sure eye relief is correct, edge to edge clarity, level reticle, parralax error removed, slow steady pressure on the trigger, final pressure on the natural respiratory pause. In hot weather it is harder to do, since respiratory rate and heart rate are increased.

I control my breathing very well and trigger squeeze is good. Scope is good to go and I'm relaxed. Think I just need to try out some bags and rests. Maybe a bipod and prone. I'm shooting an old Stevens 110E 30-06 grouping is just over 1" 3 round groups @100yds. I shoot my wife's ruger .270 and I get 1"@100yds. Just not on top of eachother I want the same dang hole

Seems like you're doing a bunch of things right. How heavy is the trigger? Are you shooting hand loads tuned to the the rifle?

Same hole leads into cut rifled barrel, smith dual indicating while centering in the lathe and centering within .0005". Brass once fired and FL sized .002-3" to the chamber, powder loaded to .1 gr accuracy or better, bullet seated most appropriately to that barrel, then doing everything right behind the rifle.

Shooting factory ammo. Was using Remington from core lockt. Eh.... Got Winchester 180g that's better. Next I'll try hornady. I think before I go getting any more picky I need to update my rifle lol. The trigger pull is factory it's non adjustable. Guessing 3.5lbs maybe a lil more. Wife's ruger is 3lbs pull

Be happy with the 1" groups sir with what you're doing currently. They're doing what they were intended for. I had to realize this a while back too

Factory loads will absolutely make you crazy. Just when you find that one box with the right lot numbers that shoot well, you done shot em up and you buy another box of something from some other time they made them and they won't shoot for nuthin.

Lot of truth in what the frog said (did I just say that)

Sounds like you are doing a lot right, a more stable rest could very easily improve the groups some. Factory ammo has gotten better but it will not compete with ammo loaded to match your gun most of the time. I say most of the time because occasionally you find a load that shoots great from your gun, If you do buy all of that lot number you can.

Shooting the small one hole groups is fun, I use a benchrest style front rest or bags and a rear bag when shooting from the bench. Sometimes bipod if the forearm is stiff enough so not to flex and cause issues. Backpack from prone works as well. I rarely shoot those little groups from field positions but they are fun when you do. Shooting those tiny groups from a bench is fun but doesn't tell you what can be done from field positions.

Like a rifle and load that is accurate from the bench, then if I miss from a field position I know where to place the blame. On Me. I shoot mostly from the bench when working up loads or checking the scope. On occasion though I admit those one hole groups are fun, it is also too easy to have a group like that going and call a flyer that isn't an inch off but know it was me that messed up.

Biggest thing is have fun shooting. Thomas Jefferson was right. The gun should be your constant companion on your daily walk for it exercises the body and mind.

I always use a backpack filled with rolled up towels for a front rest because it's light weight and can be beat into the shape I need. For a rear bag I bought a $3 bag of fish tank rocks, taped the plastic down right and places in a tube sock and tied it off. It worked for me until I could find something better, which hasn't happened yet. I will be trying airsoft BB's instead of rocks because of the weight

Necessity is the Mother of Invention was never more true a statement than doing more with less... like trying to shoot bugholes with equipment that was not designed for that goal, with shooters skills that have never been trained and practiced for that dedicated goal. Aim Small Miss Small ...IF you know how First is the initial step.

Reliable Repeat Accuracy is an art form that is learned over many hours and experimentation for what detailed minutia in any of the basic requirements suit you best, but only after you understand the principles and base level equipment requirements.

FWIW those learned skills also degrade without steady long term usage...but just like riding a bicycle can be regained more quickly after a layoff once the intial level of skill has been ingrained with no thought required. Trigger discipline, breathing discipline, getting past all the changes to your physical health after a several year layoff really can be done. BTDT that several times...but patience & dedication to the effort once you have The Knowledge to draw from is the key...and is where I am right now waiting to get back in the game, due to outside issues taking all my time, energy & $$'s.

Backyard practice with empty but primed brass was one of my "tricks" to practice shooting form, breathing and trigger disciplines behind a 6' tall privacy fence, and not have the Carrollton Cops all over my arse once upon a time. No 2 story houses overlooking me either....only had to be careful about when the lady couple houses down decided to work on her "all over" tan 'cause DPD & CPD's 'choppers always swarmed the 'hood when she was out by the pool. Up here a neighbor wages war on tree rats with a Gamo pellet rifle out to 50-75+ yards...and only "scores" head shots, not really expecting to add to his collection of tails....but that's OK by him too if it happens.

Repeatable At Will long strings of No Miss 3 point BBall nuthin but net shots from mid court is a good comparison...
Ron

I use the bench and sandbags at least once on every rifle I own to establish it's accuracy capability and develop the most accurate load.

From there I then decide what power of scope or type of scope (day optic / night optic) would be best suited given the grouping result.

Any other given day from a picnic table or home depot bucket and fold out chair I know I can do my part to make a sub MOA gun a 2 - 3 MOA gun

Guess I'm not far off them. I'll look to change things up in the future. I know I kill whatever I hit. 4-4 this year. We shoot A LOT. I put my daughter 10yrs and son 8yrs on the 10-22 for first time. My daughters grouping
That's 50yds with a $7 tasco. Not bad for first shots with a rifle. She'll be the sharpshooter like her mom

I use a front bull bag and a rear bunny ear bag. I have two rifles that are capable of shooting 5 into one hole. Both have after market barrels, tuned triggers and actions. Still, it's not very common for me to do my part well enough to shoot a one hole group. I laugh about it, but after putting 4 in one hole, it's the 5th shot that's hard to make.

Your rifle may be shooting as well as possible, but worthwhile additions that might improve your shooting but won't cost much money are the rear bunny ear bag (with the knowledge of how to use it) and a Timney trigger.

I had a couple of guys here this past weekend, and one of them was a good shooter. He had a one hole group going while shooting my old 220, and I handed him one more round. He gave it back and said "Nah, I'll just stop here". He walked down and pulled the target and took it with him when they left. I wonder how many shots he'll say went into that hole. :-)

I ususally just flip it up from the hip and squeeze one off as I pass through the target.

"Three tests the load, four tests the rifle, five tests the shooter."

99% of my shooting is from the prone position. If I am not using a bipod and rear bag, then I am using a sandbag front and rear bag. Bench is fine. But NO lead sled!!!! Bad Bad Bad!!!

What's the position when you're on a bench and you put a bag under the butt, and you almost cross your arms to the point your non trigger hand is holding that bag for more control? Is there a term for that?

With my left hand, I reach for the butt, laying my arm underneath the butt and lay the rifle butt's toe in the pocket between my thumb & forefinger like a backwards pool cue and on top of the rear bag... this on guns that don't have much recoil.

On hard kickers I guide the butt tighter into the cup 'tween my rotator cuff and outside edge of my shoulder and inside of the collar bone joint & try to fold the PAST Pad in half around the rifle butt I'm so deep into the cup of the shoulder. Having a sling mounted on the stud also allows better grip of the sling to jam the butt into my shouder on really hard kickers or guns with slippery butt plates.

Having short arms, fingers and chubby thick shoulders doan't help either.
Ron

Same hole...great goal but tough to do even with a custom rig. I've done it a few times with three bullets but only with sand bags etc and never done it with five rounds...just three rounds. They always open up on the fourth shot...lol

I like that!

Is there some kind of penalty for waiting on the barrel to cool down?

Cool down?????? What I thought you just kept firing. I've seen it in the movies

What he said. Getting one inch groups is far from guaranteed but not uncommon. Factory triggers and factory ammunition are not conducive to getting tighter groups. There are exceptions, but not as many as the internet would have you believe.

Ha sometimes I've told myself I need to quit reading forums. mostly just because they make me spend too much money

I've been told I'm guilty of causing that...

You're public enemy #1 as far as getting people to spend more but that's because quality costs money. It sucks because I know you're always right too. Doh!

Oh ya, buddy ol pal!

6 months ago, I had little desire to build a long range rifle.

6 months ago, ok maybe a year ago, ok maybe 2 years ago I had no idea what it took to get a bullet to go long distance accurately and consistently. I thought my sporter 700 in 270 would cover everything. Little did I know of the whoooole world of shooting that was beyond that. I'm not actively in it and I've been addicted to at least reading and dreaming about it.

It's not your fault. I do this kind of thing every few years. Find a new hobby and spend a bunch of money. But I've been shooting my whole life, so I expect this hobby is here to stay.

This is at 100 yards, 4x scope, using a big front bag and a sand sock under the rear off a picnic table. I like a sand sock because you can make very fine elevation adjustments by just squeezing your non-trigger hand. I shot for the black first, four rounds, and wanted it 1" high at a hundred. I think I got pretty close to that. I don't like sleds much.

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Very impressive for 4X !

Or heck, any magnification.

Thank you, sir. I strung'em a bit vertically but managed to do my part I guess.

That's a small point of aim, must've had a fine reticle. Looks like that's a 3/8" group on the black. I'll take that any day!

Oh there's the grouping I want. Thanks now I'm all mad at myself again

I try to shoot just like I hunt.....so bipod or bag on front and bag on rear. No sled and never prone because I never hunt that way.