Texas Hunting Forum

Long action long range caliber

Posted By: TFF Caribou

Long action long range caliber - 02/17/15 11:38 PM

After being gifted a 7mm mauser this past week, the rifle im building to shoot long range will no longer also be required to be a deer rifle, it's a .270win right now, and I would prefer to rebarrel it to a caliber that utilizes the same bolt face to minimize what I have to purchase to rebarrel it. I was thinking about a 6.5 creedmore, seeing as how it's gets awesome reviews, but since I have a long action, I know I have more options. What would you switch to if you were building a dedicated long range, long action rifle.
Posted By: tth_40

Re: Long action long range caliber - 02/18/15 12:13 AM

I like the .270 Win., though you'd have better bullet selection with .280 Rem., .280 AI, .30-06, etc.
Posted By: RiverRider

Re: Long action long range caliber - 02/18/15 12:57 AM

Good ideas...and give the .284-derived cartridges some thought also. In a long action you can can get a lot of powder under a long bullet. I'd think about 6.5-06 and 6.5-06 AI also.
Posted By: TFF Caribou

Re: Long action long range caliber - 02/18/15 12:59 AM

I thought about a 6.5-284 but that's a short action caliber correct? There are so many I can't keep em straight.
Posted By: wp75169

Re: Long action long range caliber - 02/18/15 01:11 AM

280 AI or 6.5-06 hands down. I think the 280AI is near perfect.
Posted By: TFF Caribou

Re: Long action long range caliber - 02/18/15 01:15 AM

6.5-06 sounds great. And the brass can be made from .270, 30-06, or 25-06. That's a nice bonus and there will never be a shortage of brass.
Posted By: TFF Caribou

Re: Long action long range caliber - 02/18/15 01:22 AM

My only question is, is the 6.5/06 substantially better than the 6.5 creedmore as far as ballistics are concerned? I know there is factory ammo available for the 6.5 creedmore which I could use til I start reloading, and I don't do that currently.
Posted By: J.G.

Re: Long action long range caliber - 02/18/15 01:42 AM

Originally Posted By: wp75169
280 AI or 6.5-06 hands down. I think the 280AI is near perfect.


^^That's right^^

Originally Posted By: Tff caribou
My only question is, is the 6.5/06 substantially better than the 6.5 creedmore as far as ballistics are concerned? I know there is factory ammo available for the 6.5 creedmore which I could use til I start reloading, and I don't do that currently.


The 6.5-06 is pushing the exact same bullet only quite a bit faster. The key tk shooting small and/or shooting far is ultra consistent ammo = hand loads. Assuming the rifle and optic are as stout, and consistent as possible removing that factor. All of this is about removing factors.

Well built rifle, check.
Base, rings, scope up to the task, check.
Ammo tuned to the rifle, and super consistent, check.
Shooter doing everything right behind the rifle, check.

What's the wind doing and how do we correct for it? The last factor we have no control over and can only learn to judge it and allow for it. = Practice!
Posted By: J.G.

Re: Long action long range caliber - 02/18/15 02:08 AM

If it were my action. I would rebarrel in 7mm, chamber in 280 A.I., load it with 162 gr A-maxes, or 168 gr. VLDs and never look back.
Posted By: tth_40

Re: Long action long range caliber - 02/18/15 02:11 AM

Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
If it were my action. I would rebarrel in 7mm, chamber in 280 A.I., load it with 162 gr A-maxes, or 168 gr. VLDs and never look back.


Boomalakachaka. cheers
Posted By: RiverRider

Re: Long action long range caliber - 02/18/15 02:15 AM

Originally Posted By: Tff caribou
I thought about a 6.5-284 but that's a short action caliber correct? There are so many I can't keep em straight.


It will fit a short action, but in that case you have to seat the heavier bullets pretty deep. If you chamber a long action in 6mm-284 or 6.5-284, you can seat bullets way out there and get a considerably larger powder charge under the bullet.

My 6-284 is a long-action rifle so I can seat these 95-grain Partitions pretty far out. In fact, I think I can't even reach the lands on account of the chambering but it's been so long since I developed the load I couldn't tell you...I've only recorded comparator length so I can duplicate the load. I do believe that I could seat the longest bullets shallow enough to get plenty of powder under em.



One thing the 6mm-06 and 6.5-06 have on the .284-based cartridges is the ease of locating reasonably priced brass. Truth be told, I'd probably have selected 6mm-06 over 6mm-284 for that reason, but this particular rifle kinda fell in my lap so it's what I'm using.
Posted By: 6.5x47Lapua

Re: Long action long range caliber - 02/18/15 03:16 AM

30-06 with 208 amax or 200+ hybrids would be some bad medicine if you could take the recoil.

As usual, the 30-06 is ignored, but not for it's merits.
Posted By: tth_40

Re: Long action long range caliber - 02/18/15 03:19 AM

Originally Posted By: 6.5x47Lapua
30-06 with 208 amax or 200+ hybrids would be some bad medicine if you could take the recoil.

As usual, the 30-06 is ignored, but not for it's merits.


If I had it in the right stock, maybe with the right muzzle brake I think that'd be an excellent choice.
Posted By: TFF Caribou

Re: Long action long range caliber - 02/18/15 03:52 AM

Originally Posted By: 6.5x47Lapua
30-06 with 208 amax or 200+ hybrids would be some bad medicine if you could take the recoil.

As usual, the 30-06 is ignored, but not for it's merits.


Interesting. Recoil really doesn't bother me too much. Although I do have a flinch I'm trying to get rid of. Which is odd. The actual recoil doesn't bother me at all, but I catch myself anticipating it anyways. But it's getting better thankfully. Timney trigger has helped.
Posted By: hetman

Re: Long action long range caliber - 02/18/15 04:46 AM

if it could be anything & u want to load for it:

.26 Nosler

The .26 Nosler (6.5×66mmRB) is a rebated-rim centerfire rifle cartridge designed by Nosler and first announced in November 2013. It is designed as a modern 6.5mm cartridge, using recent advances in firearm technology to attain exceptionally high muzzle velocities (up to 3,400 ft/s (1,040 m/s)) and maintain an extremely flat trajectory. The overall cartridge length of 3.340 inches (84.8 mm) is the same as that of the .30-06 Springfield, allowing the use of widely-available standard-length actions. Nosler claims that the .26 Nosler is the most powerful commercial 6.5mm cartridge in the world: when loaded with 129-grain AccuBond Long Range very-low-drag bullets, the velocity of the .26 Nosler at 400 yards is nearly as high as the muzzle velocity of the .260 Remington. Smoking

IMHO Hetman(AKA Steve)
Posted By: Tactical Cowboy

Re: Long action long range caliber - 02/18/15 04:54 AM

6.5-06
Posted By: spg

Re: Long action long range caliber - 02/18/15 05:30 AM

7 Rem mag + 168gr Berger
Posted By: dee

Re: Long action long range caliber - 02/18/15 12:21 PM

Plain 284 or 280AI would be my first choices.
Posted By: J.G.

Re: Long action long range caliber - 02/18/15 01:00 PM

Originally Posted By: spg
7 Rem mag + 168gr Berger


That would involve a new bolt. And 7 Rem Mags deserve 180's. grin
Posted By: Brother in-law

Re: Long action long range caliber - 02/18/15 01:23 PM

How does one get into a magnum bolt face? Buy a new bolt?
Posted By: kmon11

Re: Long action long range caliber - 02/18/15 01:37 PM

Originally Posted By: Tff caribou
I thought about a 6.5-284 but that's a short action caliber correct? There are so many I can't keep em straight.
.

The 6.5-284 Norma specs call for a long action so the bullets can be seated further out, not taking up powder space.
I went that route for my long range rig, so far the furthest I have taken it is 790 yards, it will go much further though. The 6.5-284, 6.5 Remington Magnum and 6.5-06 all have almost the same case capacity.
Posted By: SingleShot85

Re: Long action long range caliber - 02/18/15 01:51 PM

Originally Posted By: Brother in-law
How does one get into a magnum bolt face? Buy a new bolt?


a gun smith can open the bolt face and would most likely change the extractor....
Posted By: kmon11

Re: Long action long range caliber - 02/18/15 02:10 PM

Originally Posted By: SingleShot85
Originally Posted By: Brother in-law
How does one get into a magnum bolt face? Buy a new bolt?


a gun smith can open the bolt face and would most likely change the extractor....


Either get the smith to open up the boltface or buy another bolt. There are places like Pacific Tool and Gauge that sell Remington 700 bolts. there are probably others that do also.
Posted By: Korean Redneck

Re: Long action long range caliber - 02/18/15 02:31 PM

Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Originally Posted By: spg
7 Rem mag + 168gr Berger


That would involve a new bolt. And 7 Rem Mags deserve 180's. grin


And all nails "deserve" to driven in with 12lb sledge hammers! smile
Posted By: redchevy

Re: Long action long range caliber - 02/18/15 02:39 PM

280 AI or 6.5-06 or 30-06 would be my choices.
Posted By: kmon11

Re: Long action long range caliber - 02/18/15 03:33 PM

It doesn't take a cannon to shoot 1k plus, but the cannons ring the steel a lot louder.

Jason when I put a different scope on the Grendel we need to stretch its legs.
Posted By: NewJeep

Re: Long action long range caliber - 02/18/15 04:35 PM

I am having a .270 rebarreled to a 6.5x284 right now at Horizon. That was the best fit for me. Since I already had a 7mm.
Posted By: TFF Caribou

Re: Long action long range caliber - 02/18/15 04:44 PM

As far as 6.5-284 brass is concerned, is it only made from .284win brass? I will eventually be reloading for this gun. And I like that the 6.5-06 can be made from 3 very commonly available calibers of brass.
Posted By: glb1955

Re: Long action long range caliber - 02/18/15 05:03 PM

I have built 2 6.5x284's on a long action. You can do more with that round on a LA if you reload. Accurate too.
Posted By: jeffbird

Re: Long action long range caliber - 02/18/15 05:18 PM

Originally Posted By: Tff caribou
As far as 6.5-284 brass is concerned, is it only made from .284win brass? I will eventually be reloading for this gun. And I like that the 6.5-06 can be made from 3 very commonly available calibers of brass.


Lapua makes 6.5-284 brass ready to go, and Cabela's even has some loaded 6.5-284 ammo on the shelves, well as much as they can keep ammo on the shelves.. It is easier to find than 284 Win brass, which has mostly faded into obscurity.
Posted By: redchevy

Re: Long action long range caliber - 02/18/15 05:29 PM

I would personally try to find a caliber that I didn't have to form brass for. No reason to have to form brass, way too many calibers available that will easily do what you looking for that have available factory brass.
Posted By: redchevy

Re: Long action long range caliber - 02/18/15 05:32 PM

Ive never done it, but id be willing to bet there are a few bullet options that will get your 270 out there.

I always wanted to rebarrel my 270 till I ran across some load data for a 270 and 26 inch barrel. I don't have a chrono so I go off the data I have for velocities, but the data I found suggests I can get pretty significantly better numbers than a 22-24 inch barrel.
Posted By: BOBO the Clown

Re: Long action long range caliber - 02/18/15 06:05 PM

Originally Posted By: redchevy
Ive never done it, but id be willing to bet there are a few bullet options that will get your 270 out there.

I always wanted to rebarrel my 270 till I ran across some load data for a 270 and 26 inch barrel. I don't have a chrono so I go off the data I have for velocities, but the data I found suggests I can get pretty significantly better numbers than a 22-24 inch barrel.


3 actually but only one doesn't require a non standard twist.
Posted By: redchevy

Re: Long action long range caliber - 02/18/15 06:14 PM

What 3 are you thinking? I can come up with more if all works on paper. And to the best of my knowledge all of them can be shot through a standard. 1:10 twist although one manufacturer recommends a faster one.
Posted By: J.G.

Re: Long action long range caliber - 02/18/15 06:34 PM

Originally Posted By: kmon1
It doesn't take a cannon to shoot 1k plus, but the cannons ring the steel a lot louder.

Jason when I put a different scope on the Grendel we need to stretch its legs.


123's ?

Screw my can on the end and watch the bullet fly all the way to the end.
Posted By: BOBO the Clown

Re: Long action long range caliber - 02/18/15 06:59 PM

Originally Posted By: redchevy
What 3 are you thinking? I can come up with more if all works on paper. And to the best of my knowledge all of them can be shot through a standard. 1:10 twist although one manufacturer recommends a faster one.


ABLR, matrix, cutting edge
Posted By: redchevy

Re: Long action long range caliber - 02/18/15 07:08 PM

With the premise that staying supersonic will still be accurate/stabilized at that distance (given adequate rifle load etc.) the ABLR, Berger 150 vld, 135 gr SMK, 150 NBT will all do it and should stabilize in standard twist.
Posted By: kmon11

Re: Long action long range caliber - 02/18/15 07:21 PM

Lapua, Norma and Nosler all make very good 6.5-284 Brass. Nosler and HSM both load some good factory loads.
Posted By: Bullfrog

Re: Long action long range caliber - 02/18/15 07:32 PM

Lapua brass is high, but it's good stuff. You won't have much work at the bench with it compared to the cheaper stuff.
Posted By: kmon11

Re: Long action long range caliber - 02/18/15 07:49 PM

Originally Posted By: Bullfrog
Lapua brass is high, but it's good stuff. You won't have much work at the bench with it compared to the cheaper stuff.


Same with Nosler brass. Case life is good in the AI, 6.5-284 and 6.5 Creedmoor with the very little case taper and steeper shoulder angle, you do not have to trim as often. Have some of the Lapua 6.5-284 that has been trimmed once after 4 loads and annealed at that time, now at 7 loads on that batch of brass. If you get 10 loads from a piece of brass cost of the Lapua is not that bad.
Posted By: Buzzsaw

Re: Long action long range caliber - 02/19/15 12:04 AM

stay away from wildcats

get something you can find components easy for
Posted By: TFF Caribou

Re: Long action long range caliber - 02/19/15 12:51 AM

Originally Posted By: Buzzsaw
stay away from wildcats

get something you can find components easy for



30-06 was mentioned a couple of times. I'm assuming it had a large bullet selection available being .30 caliber.
Posted By: Buzzsaw

Re: Long action long range caliber - 02/19/15 03:49 AM

Nothing wrong with the good ole '06

Wildcats can be very picky when having to form cases, maybe turning necks, etc.

It can get to be a pain in the neck unless you like to sit at the reloading bench all day.

Hell, you could burn up a barrel just developing a load for some hot wildcats.

7mm Rem Mag with the right barrel twist will go a long way as a great longrange , long action cartridge, 280 Rem good too. Just my goofy opinions
Posted By: Strongbad

Re: Long action long range caliber - 02/19/15 02:45 PM

I throw another in for the 284 Win. Believe I saw it mentioned on the first page. The 284 gets lots of love in F-Class and the long action is what you want for the 284.
Posted By: RiverRider

Re: Long action long range caliber - 02/19/15 02:52 PM

The .284 IS a good cartridge, but what would make it preferable over .280 to the point that having to find brass for it would be worth the extra trouble and expense?
Posted By: TFF Caribou

Re: Long action long range caliber - 02/19/15 05:06 PM

I guess if I went 280AI then I could use the same bullets to reload for my 7mm mauser, but then, I'd have 2 7mms. Which I guess isn't a problem, since I won't be hunting with the savage anyways. Plus I have a 250savage that I can use if I want a smaller bullet for varmints.
Posted By: bo3

Re: Long action long range caliber - 02/19/15 05:22 PM

Rebarrel it to a 270 just to annoy some of the long range guys. Load it with bergers and have fun.
Its a savage so you can change bolt heads and rebarrel yourself easily. 6.5-06, 280, or 30.06 all will work. 6mm-06 could be fun.Its just preference.
Posted By: J.G.

Re: Long action long range caliber - 02/19/15 05:29 PM

[quote=bo323]Rebarrel it to a 270 just to annoy some of the long range guys. quote]

That would certainly do it.

Having loads of BC available in 6.5mm and 7mm and handicap yourself by going .270
Posted By: redchevy

Re: Long action long range caliber - 02/19/15 05:32 PM

Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
[quote=bo323]Rebarrel it to a 270 just to annoy some of the long range guys. quote]

That would certainly do it.

Having loads of BC available in 6.5mm and 7mm and handicap yourself by going .270


Since it is already a 270 he can cut his teeth on loading and long range before he undergoes the expense of it. Plus loads of people shoot 308 long range and I think there are options that will allow the 270 to do a tad better than that.
Posted By: spg

Re: Long action long range caliber - 02/19/15 05:40 PM

Don't think you'll be satisfied with a 270 WIN for long range applications. Kind of the wrong tool for long range. If your set on the caliber 270 at least go with a weatherby loaded with 150VLD's.
Posted By: bo3

Re: Long action long range caliber - 02/19/15 05:54 PM

I just looked it up because I got curious. 150 vl has a BC of .531 and a velocity of 2840 to 2970. Its actually better then I thought. that's using the berger manual.
Posted By: spg

Re: Long action long range caliber - 02/19/15 05:56 PM

I would look at the 28 Nosler
Posted By: redchevy

Re: Long action long range caliber - 02/19/15 06:01 PM

Originally Posted By: spg
I would look at the 28 Nosler


He wans a non magnum bolt face...

Again not saying the 270 is the best or even one of the better ones, but it is what he has, he is doing it on a budget, and it will work to get his feet wet.
Posted By: J.G.

Re: Long action long range caliber - 02/19/15 06:05 PM

Originally Posted By: bo323
I just looked it up because I got curious. 150 vl has a BC of .531 and a velocity of 2840 to 2970. Its actually better then I thought. that's using the berger manual.


.531 is good, for sure.

What's a 6.5mm 140 hybrid? What's a 168 gr. 7mm? Then look at big daddy, the 180 gr 7mm VLD.

Redchevy, you're right.

He could learn lots with the 270 he already has. My point was, if wanting a long range rifle, and if there will be a new barrel installed, then DO NOT rebarrel in a heavier contour 270, when 6.5mn and 7mm is readily available.
Posted By: redchevy

Re: Long action long range caliber - 02/19/15 06:15 PM

Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
if there will be a new barrel installed, then DO NOT rebarrel in a heavier contour 270


Completely agree. My suggestion was play cheap and run what ya brung for a bit and learn more about what you want/think you want to drop hundreds/thousands on.
Posted By: J.G.

Re: Long action long range caliber - 02/19/15 06:20 PM

Originally Posted By: redchevy
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
if there will be a new barrel installed, then DO NOT rebarrel in a heavier contour 270


Completely agree. My suggestion was play cheap and run what ya brung for a bit and learn more about what you want/think you want to drop hundreds/thousands on.


Without a doubt! Bring a .270 to my range and we'll hit every target all the way to the end (I call the wind holds). Gonna build a rifle? There's better options than the .270 for a long action.
Posted By: bo3

Re: Long action long range caliber - 02/19/15 06:34 PM

Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Originally Posted By: bo323
I just looked it up because I got curious. 150 vl has a BC of .531 and a velocity of 2840 to 2970. Its actually better then I thought. that's using the berger manual.


.531 is good, for sure.

What's a 6.5mm 140 hybrid? What's a 168 gr. 7mm? Then look at big daddy, the 180 gr 7mm VLD.

Redchevy, you're right.

He could learn lots with the 270 he already has. My point was, if wanting a long range rifle, and if there will be a new barrel installed, then DO NOT rebarrel in a heavier contour 270, when 6.5mn and 7mm is readily available.


I was just pointing out its doable with a 270. I don't know why all the questions. We both know or can find those bcs easily. And yes. They all do have a higher bc. Still dont know why you insist on speaking down to me but that's your problem. Personally I'd go 280ai or 6.4-06.
Posted By: J.G.

Re: Long action long range caliber - 02/19/15 07:14 PM

Geez, some people wear their feelings on their sleeve. I promise to be kinder and gentler. I never said you were wrong or that that 270 can't do it, it can. Again, if building a rifle specifically for long range then there are better options that a 270. That is until bullet makers start making higher BC bullets, and barrel makers start making the twist to stabilize them.

So in reality we are on the exact same page.
Posted By: bo3

Re: Long action long range caliber - 02/19/15 07:32 PM

Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Geez, some people wear their feelings on their sleeve. I promise to be kinder and gentler. I never said you were wrong or that that 270 can't do it, it can. Again, if building a rifle specifically for long range then there are better options that a 270. That is until bullet makers start making higher BC bullets, and barrel makers start making the twist to stabilize them.

So in reality we are on the exact same page.


Smh. You do realize you just proved my point right? lol35 And as usual we agree but have different ways of doing the same thing.

The more I think about it I'd go 6.5-06. You already have a 7mm. That way you can still shoot one if the bullets are backordered or out of stock.
Posted By: TFF Caribou

Re: Long action long range caliber - 02/19/15 08:01 PM

I'm not rebarreling soon. I fully intend to learn to shoot at distance with a .270. Barrel swap is the last step of my build. I just want to make up my mind so I can quit thinking about it. Haha. I'll reload for the .270 more than likely before I swap barrels also. Unless I come across a deal too good to pass up or I have money burning a hole in my pocket. But the .270 barrel on the rifle is a light contour, and will get pretty warm after just a couple rounds. So to do it right, I'm going to need a heavier barrel either way, and it make way more sense to rebarrel to a caliber that will perform better for what I want to do.
Posted By: TFF Caribou

Re: Long action long range caliber - 02/19/15 08:06 PM

Originally Posted By: bo323
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Geez, some people wear their feelings on their sleeve. I promise to be kinder and gentler. I never said you were wrong or that that 270 can't do it, it can. Again, if building a rifle specifically for long range then there are better options that a 270. That is until bullet makers start making higher BC bullets, and barrel makers start making the twist to stabilize them.

So in reality we are on the exact same page.


Smh. You do realize you just proved my point right? lol35 And as usual we agree but have different ways of doing the same thing.

The more I think about it I'd go 6.5-06. You already have a 7mm. That way you can still shoot one if the bullets are backordered or out of stock.


I think I've decided against 6.5-06. I don't think the first caliber I reload for should require forming brass. I'm going to have enough to learn. For that reason I'm now 50/50 on 6.5-284 or 280AI
Posted By: RiverRider

Re: Long action long range caliber - 02/19/15 08:34 PM

Thats a sensible notion for sure, but forming 6.5-06 from .270 Winchester would be every bit as easy as resizing always should be. Sometimes there are more complications and pitfalls, but this one's dirt simple. Don't let it scare you away from 6.5-06 if that's the only reason prompting you to go another direction.
Posted By: bo3

Re: Long action long range caliber - 02/19/15 09:05 PM

Not much difference in the 2 6.5s. However if you want a repeater you'll have to tweek the feedlips to get the 6.5-284 to feed right.
Posted By: okierifleman

Re: Long action long range caliber - 02/20/15 01:20 AM

I have 3 6.5-284's, 1 built off a long action Remington, 1 off a long action Model 70, and 1 a Cooper which is a long action. IMO, a 6.5-284 with a short action is a waste of time. Factory brass from Lapua, Berger 140 VLD's, what else would a man want????
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