Maximum Target Range

To all you long range target shooters. If I loaded my own ammo for the following rifle, what would you estimate my maximum effective range to be.

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/90809

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/273579/...=ProductFinding

http://swfa.com/Vortex-6-24x50-Viper-PST-30mm-Rifle-Scope-P44559.aspx

The M40 / A-5 style adjustable stock from B&C is a good stock for the money. The Viper PST is also a GREAT scope! I own both. However... a sporter weight 260 is not the way to go in my opinion. That's not to say you wont be able to get it to reach out there, but the barrel is going to heat up quick, which is going to screw consistency, which is what you absolutely need if you're going to shoot LR. Also the barrel channel on the A-5 is huge and that slim barrel will look goofy.

Assuming you're on a budget, and since you're looking at a 700, I'll stay with those parameters. Keep the B&C, keep the Viper PST, and switch the gun to something with a heavy barrel. Sadly, and I think it's stupid that it's this way, I don't believe Remington offers any heavy barreled 260's. Only a 264 Win Mag. Only other option would be a heavy barreled 308 and they have several. Otherwise you're going to be limited by their screwy configurations. Like a 243 with a twist that is too slow to run the bullets you need to shoot, and so forth.

They inlet that B&C for other actions. Are there any other platforms you might consider? You might be able to find one that comes with an A-5 style stock or similar, right out of the box.

The rifle with that twist will need H-4350 around 43.0 gr +/- pushing a 140 gr. A-max or a 140 gr. VLD around 2800 fps.

Skip that stock and look at what Manners Stocks has in stock right now. Manners makes a better stock, with great customer service. If you want an adjustable cheek get a Triad Tactical stock pack for $45

The scope will do a fine job, I have one just like it.

The bullet will be supersonic to 1450 yards +/- in a DA of 2000'. I have hit steel that far with it. It doesn't have enough energy to make me want to try a kill shot on anything bigger than a coyote that far, but it will ring steel that far.

I don't like questions like this, b/c it often boils down to the shooter. How far can a 260 shoot? 1K yards no problem. We've also taken it to a mile, but that's for show and tell. The distance depends on the shooter ability, the quality of the set-up of the rifle and having good, accurate ammo.

I want to know what the pros and cons are as the first two responses showed. I want the best I can get in the parameters I listed. Take the shooter out of the equation in this instance.

MER is based on many factors, and all you listed was a rifle, stock and scope. MER is technically based on how far the bullet stays supersonic. What bullet do you plan to shoot? How fast will it be going? The correct answer is about 1200-1500 yards. If you plug in the numbers at the link below, it will tell you your MER. I don't understand how you can "take the shooter out of the equation" b/c a rifle doesn't shoot itself. But what's the point of your post? What are you trying to learn or figure out?

http://www.mega.nu:8080/traj_dat.html

I have the goal of being able to hit steel targets at 1500 yards. I want to get a 20 caliber that can consistently do that and put a stock on it that has and adjustable butt and an adjustable cheek. I want the gun to be adjustable so that it fits me properly. I plan on getting that scope but I am open to gun and stock options. Enlighten me. For arguments sake, assume I am the best shooter in the world on one hand and on the other, I have never even seen a gun. That way you can cover both spectrum. I would say assume an average shooters ability but you would probably get in depth on, "what is average?" That's why I said take the shooter out of the equation. I want a 20 cal that is realistically capable.

If you want to go extreme range, i.e. beyond 1000 yards. I would move over to a long action. 6.5-06, 264 Win Mag, 280 A.I., 7mm Rem Mag, 300 Win Mag just to name a few.

This will come down to how much BC and MV do you have, and most importantly, your ability to judge wind and properly correct for it. You will also need a good weather station that adjusts your corrections based on station pressure giving you DA live. A Kestrel with Horus or Applied Ballistics, for instance. Before anyone suggests a $9 app, they are not near as relible as your hand held weather station. I have a good app, the Kestrel is better. It is very sophisticated, and takes a while to learn how to use it, but it is a necessary evil when dealing with that kind of distance. You will also have to figure out how to solve problems when you see a bullet splash and wonder why in the hell did it land there? All of this equates to lots of time behind the rifle in varying environmental conditions, and varying places on the map to shoot from.

Fireman, what would you recommend in a 264 win mag? I have a 300 win mag and I don't like to shoot it a lot. I wanted the 260 for less recoil. I will have to learn to read wind and all the other factors, hence why I said remove the shooter from the equation.

If I were set out to have a 264 Win Mag I would get a donor action, order a 6.5 mm barrel and have my smith chamber it as such. Other than that I don't know, off the top of my head, of a rifle that will do what you want it to do. To get good you need to shoot quite a bit and you can't be waiting on a sporter contour barrel to cool. Which would most likely be what you would find in an already produced rifle.

That leads to the new 26 Nosler. You may find the rifle, but I suspect it won't be easy to find one in the barrel contour you want. So you're back to building a custom rifle again.

"

My 6.5 Creedmoor has no problem with 1,200 yards but I can't speak for anything beyond that because that's the furthest I've tried. JG is right though...it ain't easy and good equipment definitely helps. The first 12 rounds I put down range were misses and I gotta admit I was beginning to have doubts but 3 of the last four have been hits. I do not have a kestrel but want one, it's just the one I want costs a lot and I simply haven't gotten my head around spending that much for it. Plus the range I shoot at has two weather stations and an airport pretty close to it that provides pretty good info. But even with that it's not easy.

I got on here and was peppering everyone with questions about a custom LR rifle and instead of three months it took me over a year before I actually got my rifle because the more I learned the more the rifle and optics changed. Everyone just kept telling me..."that's good to start with and after 6 mths you can upgrade"...upgrade? Really? So I just decided to wait and not waste money on something I would want to upgrade in 6 months.

Good luck hope you get what you want...and need.

I don't mean this in a "know it all" way, but since you're asking this question, I'd say 750. All the SPS rifles I've seen have been accurate beyond what you'd think, but the difference between 750 and 1k is massive regarding the shooter. Anybody can hammer 500-750 if they half know what they're doing; beyond that is shooter, and wind reading ability.

That combo will serve you well; learn on it.

Edit: I just read your goal; you won't reliably hit 1500 yard targets with a .260 on a factory action/barrel. Occasionally, after several shots you probably will, but not on command. If you want that, you'll need a custom action, a cut rifled barrel (bartlein, Kreiger, Brux, etc), a very light quality (jewell) trigger, a quality stock/optics, and intensive load development.

Basically, none of what you've listed would achieve what you're asking for with ease.

If it were me, I'd start with a Surgeon , or BAT, then put a barrel mentioned above in a 284 Win/284 Shehane, a McMillan, and a high-magnification NF on the thing, and do some load testing; a .260 will do it to 1k, but beyond that (and even slightly before) you'll want more.

So far my longest shot was 708 yards with a 25 wssm in a 5-10 crosswind. It was with a factory M70 coyote and my own handloads. I had a Mueller scope on it. Once I had my elevation figured it was pretty easy to hit the target. The only issue I had was trying to guess the wind good. I would think 1000 yards wouldnt be that much more difficult with the optics I listed and a half decent rifle with good handloads.

By the way I can afford a surgeon. I would like one though if you have one to donate to me. It would be a good tax right off.

What about a heavy barreled rifle in 6.5x284 norma?

With all due respect you are getting into an expensive game on a limited budget it seams. Once you get out to the extreme ranges you're not only needing a good rifle, but good optics, reloading setup, and lots if money for ammo because being proficient at those ranges takes lots of practice. Practice equals lots of ammo down range...then comes needing a new barrel. What I'm trying to say is you would be better off dropping the range or raising the budget.

I would decrease your range to 1000yds max, then invest in lessons. That will save you money in the long run and the learning curve will be shorter.

to try and answer the OP's question, probably 300 yards. It's a Great set up! Of course it will kill at way longer ranges if you wiggle right and get lucky. But If you do your part, this "factory" set up, at 300yrds you should get a 6-10" group.

you never stated your budget, so I assume its $1200ish?

Now, if you want to up your budget and wait time a couple grand and 6- 12 months

then do as everyone above said. the 300yrd shot will be a piece of cake

Buzzsaw, that rifle I put on here with the optic I listed will do way better than 300 yards. Especially since I reload and scrutinize my loads severely. I would bet 500 would be an easy task. I'd bet that rifle on it. I bet I could put a 200 dollar scope on it and still hit 500.

Is that with or without the shooter?

just by reading your posts in this thread I imagine YOUR max effective range with the weapon and accessories you listed would be in the neighborhood of ...................................???????!!!!!!!!

100yrds

Would you like to bet on that?

Widgeon, I'm fairly new here and with long distance (ok, longer than had shot before anyway) shooting, and the best piece of advice I can give you is to pay attention to Chad and Fireman.....both have helped me a great deal.

P_102

That's an un-bedded SPS, with a crappy X-Pro Mark trigger. Starter kit at best.

Like I said its a NICE set up for Texas deer hunting 100 yard feeder with a damn good rest.

Handloading, not that big of deal with all the good factory ammo available in .260, except a Core-Lokt/Power Point.

I'm probably wrong...I am most of the time....


I would definitely get the set up, you will have a great action when the LR bug really bites you, then as you save $$ you can build a real long range rig.

I'm not bashing you , it's only my opinion. There are some great shooters on here, I'm not one. I just know enough to have fun with it.

I leave the hard stuff to Jeffbird, Chad and Jason....

1000 yards is that much more difficult; 0-500, most centerfires above .224 are a laser (heck even some .224s), 750 and wind becomes a relatively important factor. Once you start shooting to 1k and beyond, it's profound the impact it has on your accuracy. I would encourage you to take your 25wssm out and try hitting a 4'x8' sheet of steel at 1k in even a slight variable wind; it will likely be quite humbling.

I say this not to be condescending, but just because it's the reality of long range shooting. Once you start reaching out to long distances, equipment really does start to matter, as does the shooters ability to read conditions.

That said, a heavy barrled Remington/Tikka/Savage setup in .243/.260/6.5x284/284 Shehane etc. will get it done to longer distances, and I certainly wouldn't look down on anyone with that setup, but you're going to get frustrated if you try to compare your results to a guy with a 5k custom rig sitting next to you. With a little knowledge, I think you really can buy results (to a point)

If I were going to build with a ~$1200 budget, I'd go pick up a beat up used savage and rebarrel it, or try my luck with a factory Tikka heavy barrel; top it with the most scope I could afford, and either tune/buy the trigger to an acceptable range. You'll have a workable setup, but I don't believe it's going to be as easy as you're imagining.

Good luck to ya! It's a lot of fun for sure.

seriously here you go, this should help you......

I enjoy threads like these...interesting.

I just started shooting long range...over 200 yards this past July. I had a custom 6.5 CM built for me and slapped a March 5-40X56 FFP on it. One week after getting the March mounted I went to a range in Houston that was 600 yards. Shot it at 300 yards and then 600 and frankly it was easy. Now the wind was only 5-7mphs so that certainly played into it. I've taken it to 1,200 yards since then and found that out to 600 yards it's pretty easy to hit metal but with each 100 yards after that it gets more and more difficult. At the range I shoot at it jumps from 1,000 to 1200 yards and going from 1,000 to 1,200 yards is incredibly difficult!

I agree that you can, to some degree, buy results but the shooter still has to do his part. One of the most important things the custom rig and great scope did for me was give me confidence. I know if I do my part I'll hit whatever I aim at and that's why I paid so much. Plus it's fun!

DeerHunter61,

I appreciate you sharing your experience; it seems to echo mine pretty well. I started shooting long range ~2 years ago, but little except my knowledge has changed. Shoot out to 1k and then look at a ballistics chart; you'll start to see why it becomes difficult.

Honestly, at 1k, while truly great shooters can do it easily with a 6.5mm bore, I feel like it's relatively lacking (I have two 260 rifles). If I could do it again, I'd go with a .284/7mm distance cartridge, throated/chambered for the highest BC bullet Berger/Lapua make.

Regarding scopes, optical clarity takes a back seat to repeatable/reliable adjustments; all high magnification scopes "boil" in Texas summer conditions, some less than others.

6.5 mm is lacking nothing at 1000 yard target shooting.

That's quite an assertive statement, isn't it?

Perhaps lacking isn't the right term, but relative to some of the .284s out there, the 6.5 doesn't have near as much "cushion". I can get it done to 1k with a 6.5MM, but I do know it's easier in the wind with something a little heavier/higher bc at the same MV.

That's just been my experience though; your mileage may vary.

Thanks,
Mike

Well duh. If you keep the MV the same of course the higher BC bullet will give more cushion. But thats not an accurate depection of the two.

Compare a 6.5 Creedmoor against a 7mm-08. Compare a 6.5-284 (long action) against a 280. Elevation correction is irrelavent. Look at windage comparasion of the two. 1000 yards, and in, they will have the same wind hold. When you gain BC on the 7 you lose velocity. What the 6.5 lost in BC it gains in MV. Therefore their wind hold will be almost identical. I shoot a whole bunch and the abilty to read the wind to the degree that you will see a difference is nearly unattainable.

Now if we get into the 7 Rem Mag pushing a 180 Berger at 3080 fps MV. Weeeelllll, there aint a 6.5 mm that will hang with it well beyond 1k.

I think that was Mike's point. We're not talking about cases of the same capacity both running 6.5 and 7mm. We're talking about a 284 Win over a 260 or a 6.5 CM. More capacity AND more BC. I've said it before, and I'll say it again... if you want a good indication of what is really solid at 1000 (and/or beyond) look at what is happening in the F-Class world. The 284's are king. 284 Win, 284 Shehane, 7mm RSAUM, and so forth. Sure, the 6mm Dasher has more records than pretty much anything, but the F-Class guns more closely align to anything most of us are going to be shooting. Big heavy barreled rigs, with fat stocks made for shooting prone with bipods or a good set of bags. Also, everyone keep in mind that I think we're all probably a bunch of prudes when it comes to guns and gear. It comes with the territory, but that doesn't mean that we need to start speaking in absolutes. What is Fonzi like? He's cool. Let's be cool.

For what I wanted from a LR rifle my 6.5 CM gets the job done...out to 1200 yards. And if I had to do it over again I'd do the exact same thing. I still have a lot to learn and would like to see about taking it out to 1500 yards but frankly if I never get the chance then I'm pretty good with what's been accomplished so far.

The above being said once the wife and I get debt free I definitely am interested in moving up to 7Mag IF I can get the recoil manageable. Then I'd like to keep on going longer.

Exactly my point!