Texas Hunting Forum

6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast

Posted By: TexFlip

6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/15/14 11:22 PM

Just shot my third animal with my 6.5 Creedmoor that Derrick at Horizon Firearms built me. Axis buck at 265 yards, 129 SST, DRT. He did not move, just like the hog a I shot 2 weeks ago and the Axis buck I shot in July. I am in love with this round. I have always used 308 and 7mm08 for deer and pigs but neither puts animals in the dirt like the 6.5.
Posted By: 6.5BR

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/15/14 11:33 PM

Congrats, what powder you using and speed? Barrel length/twist, grooves?

What shot placement are you using?

Thanks.
Posted By: J.G.

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/15/14 11:35 PM

It is lovely isn't it.

One of the joys in life is bang...flop.
Posted By: RSTX

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/15/14 11:36 PM

I am looking at a Ruger Predator in 6.5 Creedmoor. It looks like a great all around caliber.
Posted By: QuitShootinYoungBucks

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/15/14 11:53 PM

Considering the terminal performance of the other two exceed the 6.5, it's not the caliber doing the work
Posted By: charlesb

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/16/14 12:33 AM

Sounds like it's doing the job to me.

Maybe the lighter bullets are getting a bit more velocity and are mushrooming better, creating more shock.

In the end, what works for you engenders confidence. That counts for a lot.
Posted By: Buzzsaw

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/16/14 01:54 AM

Camera don't work???
Posted By: TexFlip

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/16/14 02:26 AM

Originally Posted By: 6.5BR
Congrats, what powder you using and speed? Barrel length/twist, grooves?

What shot placement are you using?

Thanks.

Factory Hornady two SSTs running about 2715fps. 16.25" barrel, 8" twist. Went with the trusty heart/lung on both axis and ear holed the pig.
Originally Posted By: Buzzsaw
Camera don't work???


Posted By: 505ed

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/16/14 03:02 AM

Originally Posted By: QuitShootinYoungBucks
Considering the terminal performance of the other two exceed the 6.5, it's not the caliber doing the work


True, shoot a couple hundred animals to get any statistical variance, but hey glad you are happy with it!!

Ed
Posted By: QuitShootinYoungBucks

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/16/14 03:22 AM

That is a bad-looking rig. Congrats on the harvests!
Posted By: Nogalus Prairie

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/16/14 04:50 AM

Originally Posted By: QuitShootinYoungBucks
Considering the terminal performance of the other two exceed the 6.5, it's not the caliber doing the work


Yes, I get amused at posts regarding calibers that are very similar for all practical purposes and one is singled out as a "bang/flopper" over the others.

Or anything being called a "bang/flopper" for that matter.
"Bang/flops" with any standard medium deer caliber are the result of shot placement, not any certain caliber having magic or juju of being a mysteriously perfect caliber that achieves better results than other similar calibers.
Posted By: J.G.

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/16/14 05:11 AM

That pointed at me?

I never talked bad about the 308 or 7-08 he has. I still have a 308 barrel, and a complete rifle in 7-08. 6.5 Creed, 7-08, 308 all do the job very well. I didn't want to take away from OP's recent joy of his new chambering.
Posted By: RiverRider

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/16/14 05:27 AM

Originally Posted By: Nogalus Prairie
Originally Posted By: QuitShootinYoungBucks
Considering the terminal performance of the other two exceed the 6.5, it's not the caliber doing the work


Yes, I get amused at posts regarding calibers that are very similar for all practical purposes and one is singled out as a "bang/flopper" over the others.

Or anything being called a "bang/flopper" for that matter.
"Bang/flops" with any standard medium deer caliber are the result of shot placement, not any certain caliber having magic or juju of being a mysteriously perfect caliber that achieves better results than other similar calibers.



I couldn't agree more. The real questions are what bullet, how fast is it going, and where does it hit?
Posted By: TexFlip

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/16/14 12:50 PM

Nope, best short action round there is. Threw my 7mm08s and 308s in the burn pile. I missed a whitetail with it and he died out of respect for the mighty Creedmoor.
Posted By: trapperben

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/16/14 02:29 PM

Kinda funny to me; ballistics on my 257 Roberts load are about the same. While I never heard it called a beast my results have been very similar with the deer shot with it.
Posted By: kmon11

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/16/14 02:48 PM

while the creedmoor is good it is no different than the 6.5X47, 6.5X55, 6.5X57 or 260 remington which all shoot the same bullet at basically the same velocity. A little slower than the 6.5-284, 6.5-06, and 6.5 Rem Mag and quite a bit slower than the 264 Win Mag and 26 Nosler. Heck it is faster than the 6.5X54MS that Bell used for elephant.

The 6.5X55 has been getting the job done for over 120 years so those ballistics are nothing new.

Granted confidence in the rifle/cartridge goes a long way for effectiveness to the shooter but there are a bunch of other cartridges that are just as effective.
Posted By: Nogalus Prairie

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/16/14 03:02 PM

Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
That pointed at me?

I never talked bad about the 308 or 7-08 he has. I still have a 308 barrel, and a complete rifle in 7-08. 6.5 Creed, 7-08, 308 all do the job very well. I didn't want to take away from OP's recent joy of his new chambering.


No. Just a general observation that IMO all the "bang/flop" and DRT stuff is unecessary, over-rated, and IMO counterproductive. BFs/DRTs are almost always only achieved only by taking out the central nervous system. That means, head, neck, or spine. That means pinpoint shot placement. That means less margin for error. That means problems for many.

There is nothing wrong with a lung/heart shot placed about 1/3 of the way up above the front leg. Gives a bunch of margin for error. Lethal. Yes, deer usually runs a little ways and collapses. But this fact doesn't affect one's manhood.

And the 6.5 is a wonderful caliber.
Posted By: kmon11

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/16/14 03:13 PM

Originally Posted By: Nogalus Prairie
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
That pointed at me?

I never talked bad about the 308 or 7-08 he has. I still have a 308 barrel, and a complete rifle in 7-08. 6.5 Creed, 7-08, 308 all do the job very well. I didn't want to take away from OP's recent joy of his new chambering.


No. Just a general observation that IMO all the "bang/flop" and DRT stuff is unecessary, over-rated, and IMO counterproductive. BFs/DRTs are almost always only achieved only by taking out the central nervous system. That means, head, neck, or spine. That means pinpoint shot placement. That means less margin for error. That means problems for many.

There is nothing wrong with a lung/heart shot placed about 1/3 of the way up above the front leg. Gives a bunch of margin for error. Lethal. Yes, deer usually runs a little ways and collapses. But this fact doesn't affect one's manhood.

And the 6.5 is a wonderful caliber.


Though difficult to time the shot NP described for lungs will result in a bang/flop if the critter has just exhaled and the lungs are empty of air.
Posted By: DStroud

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/16/14 03:15 PM

I have video showing why the Creedmoor is special. I sure like mine!

Posted By: J.G.

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/16/14 03:27 PM

I agree NP. But why steal a guy's thunder over a new (to him) cartridge? confused2

Awesomeness, DStroud!
Posted By: HorizonFirearms

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/16/14 04:16 PM

Dang Flip, Did not know you were going to bring out so much creedmoor envy! and DStroud I told you not to film in the shop while we were building guns.

On the Derailment to bang flop. He is using a bullet with a decent BC and one that is a little more explosive, transferring more of the energy to the animal vs penetration. I personally like that, and if given the opportunity I go high shoulder shot to get the bang flop. In south Texas I prefer not to track, even 30 yards.

As for the 257 comment, its because the 25 calibers have very low BC options. All things equal a higher BC will penetrate better than a low BC bullet of the same weight, just like it cuts wind.
Posted By: daniel1381

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/16/14 06:50 PM

Originally Posted By: DStroud
I have video showing why the Creedmoor is special. I sure like mine!




Good one!!! Love my 6.5x55
Posted By: RiverRider

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/16/14 07:09 PM

Originally Posted By: HorizonFirearms
All things equal a higher BC will penetrate better than a low BC bullet of the same weight, just like it cuts wind.


Sure about that? As soon as an expanding bullet begins to open up you can kiss BC goodbye. Perhaps you meant sectional density.
Posted By: J.G.

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/16/14 07:29 PM

Originally Posted By: RiverRider
Originally Posted By: HorizonFirearms
All things equal a higher BC will penetrate better than a low BC bullet of the same weight, just like it cuts wind.


Sure about that? As soon as an expanding bullet begins to open up you can kiss BC goodbye. Perhaps you meant sectional density.


I think Derrick is referring to the fact that it's maintaining a higher percentage, down range, of the MV.
Posted By: Nogalus Prairie

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/16/14 08:06 PM

Originally Posted By: DStroud
I have video showing why the Creedmoor is special. I sure like mine!



banana
Posted By: RiverRider

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/16/14 09:16 PM

Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Originally Posted By: RiverRider
Originally Posted By: HorizonFirearms
All things equal a higher BC will penetrate better than a low BC bullet of the same weight, just like it cuts wind.


Sure about that? As soon as an expanding bullet begins to open up you can kiss BC goodbye. Perhaps you meant sectional density.


I think Derrick is referring to the fact that it's maintaining a higher percentage, down range, of the MV.



That's not what I'm reading.

Originally Posted By: HorizonFirearms
...penetrate better than a low BC bullet of the same weight,just like it cuts wind.

Posted By: J.G.

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/17/14 12:44 AM

Originally Posted By: RiverRider
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Originally Posted By: RiverRider
Originally Posted By: HorizonFirearms
All things equal a higher BC will penetrate better than a low BC bullet of the same weight, just like it cuts wind.


Sure about that? As soon as an expanding bullet begins to open up you can kiss BC goodbye. Perhaps you meant sectional density.


I think Derrick is referring to the fact that it's maintaining a higher percentage, down range, of the MV.



That's not what I'm reading.

Originally Posted By: HorizonFirearms
...penetrate better than a low BC bullet of the same weight,just like it cuts wind.



Still the case. Same weight, higher BC = moving faster down range = penetrates better.

That's the way I'm seeing what Derrick is saying. And I'm on the same page with him.
Posted By: RiverRider

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/17/14 12:48 AM

rolleyes
Posted By: HorizonFirearms

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/17/14 01:41 AM

Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Originally Posted By: RiverRider
Originally Posted By: HorizonFirearms
All things equal a higher BC will penetrate better than a low BC bullet of the same weight, just like it cuts wind.


Sure about that? As soon as an expanding bullet begins to open up you can kiss BC goodbye. Perhaps you meant sectional density.



I think Derrick is referring to the fact that it's maintaining a higher percentage, down range, of the MV.



Yes I am actually saying both, don't think you can have one without the other, but I did a bad job of explaining it at 10 AM before church...

So BC is essentially equal to Sectional Density/Coefficient of form. Representing the projectiles ability to overcome resistance, which dictates its ability to maintain muzzle velocity and affects penetration.

Sectional Density is essentially the mass of a projectile/the cross sectional area. You are correct in saying that this is typically used in terminal ballistics to derive penetration. However unless I am missing something when you look at BC compared to SD as SD increases so does BC.

So what I was saying is if you have a 7 mag bullet that is 180 grains and a 30 caliber bullet that is 180 grains. The 7 mag bullet is going to have a higher BC therefore will reach the target with more velocity. Thus more energy. Bullets being equal, more penetration, given they are both launched at the same speed.


I am not a ballistition so let me know if I a wrong
Posted By: J.G.

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/17/14 01:55 AM

You're right. up
Posted By: RiverRider

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/17/14 02:09 AM

It really depends on other stuff. Bullets tend to open up more quickly at higher impact velocities which in turn can actually diminish penetration. You might get better penetration with something like a Ballistic Tip if you slow it down from 3100 fps to 2700 fps, for instance.

My point is that upon impact, the original BC of the bullet is moot, for obvious reasons. Penetration then becomes a question of velocity, which is changing, and sectional density which is also changing because the bullet's frontal diameter is changing.
Posted By: HorizonFirearms

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/17/14 02:23 AM

But Diminishing penetration = Energy transfer and that brings us back to bang flop... which I like thats why I like the set type bullets, to me its not 100% about penetration its about energy transfer. Your "other stuff" really explains it actually there are a ton of factors, easiest to compare on a market level is BC.
Posted By: BOBO the Clown

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/17/14 02:28 AM

All depends on what the bullet is designed to do at a range of impact velocities. BC can extended that range of the impact velocities

Best penetrating bullet just means you poke a hole. Right impact velocity, with right SD combined with a bullet designed for that impact velocity means you blew a hole right through....big difference.

I have a creedmoor but have only killed a few piggies so far. So cant comment on its on game performance
Posted By: RiverRider

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/17/14 02:30 AM

What you said is "All things equal a higher BC will penetrate better than a low BC bullet of the same weight, just like it cuts wind."

What I said is BC has nothing to do with penetration (outside of its effect on impact velocity as JG astutely pointed out) and I have explained why.
Posted By: J.G.

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/17/14 02:32 AM

Here we go on the physics discussion again. cheers

Yes, once projectile impacts target, BC is out the window. However, itis arriving with "x" velocity. Penetration necomes a question of velocity, yep, same as I see it. I look at it like the 2" x 4" traveling at 20 mph hitting the power pole, 2" x 4" bounces off, power pole wins. Move the 2" x 4" at 200 mph, then what happens?

Could I force a .45 cal expanded hollow point, from a 45-70, through an elk at 50 yards better than I could 300 yards? Well at 300 it has lost much velocity. Say it expands the same for conversation sake, at what distance is the same bullet carrying more velocity and therefore more energy delivery? 50 yards of course. Same illustration holds true for streamlined bullets. Higher BC yields higher velocity at distance, yields more energy delivery. But maybe I'm relying on hydrostatic shock more than contact, projectile trauma.
Posted By: HorizonFirearms

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/17/14 02:37 AM

Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Here we go on the physics discussion again. cheers

Yes, once projectile impacts target, BC is out the window. However, itis arriving with "x" velocity. Penetration necomes a question of velocity, yep, same as I see it. I look at it like the 2" x 4" traveling at 20 mph hitting the power pole, 2" x 4" bounces off, power pole wins. Move the 2" x 4" at 200 mph, then what happens?

Could I force a .45 cal expanded hollow point, from a 45-70, through an elk at 50 yards better than I could 300 yards? Well at 300 it has lost much velocity. Say it expands the same for conversation sake, at what distance is the same bullet carrying more velocity and therefore more energy delivery? 50 yards of course. Same illustration holds true for streamlined bullets. Higher BC yields higher velocity at distance, yields more energy delivery. But maybe I'm relying on hydrostatic shock more than contact, projectile trauma.


That's the way I see it... The deer I have shot at 700 yards with the Same bullet flip is using felt the same way... Bang flop
Posted By: vanguard

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/17/14 03:00 PM

bc and sd used as a reference to determine penetration is moot and irrelevant.
a 45-70 will out penetrate just about anything on the planet and has poor bc and poor velocity, just saying. it does however have high sd
to many variables, bullet design, impact velocites, sd, bullet weight, all play a part.
Posted By: J.G.

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/17/14 03:06 PM

Can't go with ya on that.
Posted By: Judd

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/17/14 03:14 PM

Originally Posted By: DStroud
I have video showing why the Creedmoor is special. I sure like mine!



rofl That is awesome rofl
Posted By: HorizonFirearms

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/17/14 03:22 PM

Originally Posted By: vanguard
bc and sd used as a reference to determine penetration is moot and irrelevant.
a 45-70 will out penetrate just about anything on the planet and has poor bc and poor velocity, just saying. it does however have high sd
to many variables, bullet design, impact velocites, sd, bullet weight, all play a part.


Interesting statement because you did not define a distance.at 100 yards yeah at 500 yards no..
At 200 yards the 6.5 creedmoor has over twice the energy, just run the Calculator on it A bc of .175 compared to .489 is a big difference

Impact depth, IE Penetration is derived from the formula Impact distance = Projectile length x (Density of Bullet/Density of target). That formula assumes that the velocity of the bullet is met with equal velocity of the target.

That being said run those formulas and I think you would be surprised that sectional density (density of the bullet) and BC or profile/ Length of projectile both do effect penetration
Posted By: RiverRider

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/17/14 03:27 PM

Where did you get that formula?
Posted By: vanguard

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/17/14 03:29 PM

bc has nothing to do with penetration, sd i can agree. arguing bc does because of higher velocities down range is misleading, i can over come that with sheer velocity. a 220 swift aint gonna outpenetrate the 6.5 and its because of sd not bc. i can overcome sd with bullet design as well.
media being penetrated also plays a part. 220 swift will penetrate steel where the 6.5 cannot. to many variables.
Posted By: HorizonFirearms

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/17/14 03:31 PM

thats newtons formula for impact depth
Posted By: RiverRider

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/17/14 03:40 PM

Okay. So now show me where BC exists as a factor in the formula.
Posted By: HorizonFirearms

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/17/14 03:49 PM

Originally Posted By: vanguard
bc has nothing to do with penetration, sd i can agree. arguing bc does because of higher velocities down range is misleading, i can over come that with sheer velocity. a 220 swift aint gonna outpenetrate the 6.5 and its because of sd not bc. i can overcome sd with bullet design as well.
media being penetrated also plays a part. 220 swift will penetrate steel where the 6.5 cannot. to many variables.


Not so true...
BC uses mass/ SD in the formula so it does matter. Look at your swift argument

220 swift with a 55 grain bullet at 3680 vs my 22 creed shooting 75 grain amax at 3350.

at 400 yards, Both have a drop of about 3.4 MOA but the 220 is going 2354fps and 677 foot pound the 22 creed is 2584 fps and 1112 foot pounds

at 600 yards the 220 has 8.7 MOA drop at 1822 FPS and 405 foot pounds the 22 creed is 7.9 MOA 2247 FPS and 840 foot pounds

So at 600 its double the energy and 425 foot faster even though it started out 330 feet slower
Posted By: HorizonFirearms

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/17/14 03:51 PM

Originally Posted By: RiverRider
Okay. So now show me where BC exists as a factor in the formula.


Its indirectly when comparing bullets IT is projectile length that is used in BC calculation as the coefficient of form.

So when you look at BC you are looking at a conglomeration of factors. the form and the density both.
Posted By: toolman

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/17/14 03:52 PM

That poor, poor horse...Congrats TexFlip!
Posted By: vanguard

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/17/14 03:53 PM

Originally Posted By: HorizonFirearms
Originally Posted By: vanguard
bc has nothing to do with penetration, sd i can agree. arguing bc does because of higher velocities down range is misleading, i can over come that with sheer velocity. a 220 swift aint gonna outpenetrate the 6.5 and its because of sd not bc. i can overcome sd with bullet design as well.
media being penetrated also plays a part. 220 swift will penetrate steel where the 6.5 cannot. to many variables.


Not so true...
BC uses mass/ SD in the formula so it does matter. Look at your swift argument

220 swift with a 55 grain bullet at 3680 vs my 22 creed shooting 75 grain amax at 3350.

at 400 yards, Both have a drop of about 3.4 MOA but the 220 is going 2354fps and 677 foot pound the 22 creed is 2584 fps and 1112 foot pounds

at 600 yards the 220 has 8.7 MOA drop at 1822 FPS and 405 foot pounds the 22 creed is 7.9 MOA 2247 FPS and 840 foot pounds

So at 600 its double the energy and 425 foot faster even though it started out 330 feet slower



none of that has anything to do with penetration
Posted By: RiverRider

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/17/14 03:54 PM

I'll help you out a bit.

All 6mm 100-grain bullets have the same sectional density, but we can all agree that at the same impact velocity, they don't all penetrate the same. The TTSX compared to a BT is a perfect example. Different construction causes different expansion behavior which influences penettation.

BC has NO influence on penetration.

I'd suggest that Newton's formula does not take projectile expansion into account.
Posted By: RiverRider

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/17/14 03:56 PM

Originally Posted By: HorizonFirearms
Originally Posted By: RiverRider
Okay. So now show me where BC exists as a factor in the formula.


Its indirectly when comparing bullets IT is projectile length that is used in BC calculation as the coefficient of form.

So when you look at BC you are looking at a conglomeration of factors. the form and the density both.


You're really reaching here.
Posted By: vanguard

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/17/14 04:00 PM

HF you keep talking about impact velocities I.E. B.C. effects penetration then explain why a 220 swift does not out penetrate a 6.5 and why a 6.5 doesnt out penetrate a 45-70.
Posted By: BOBO the Clown

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/17/14 04:08 PM

Originally Posted By: vanguard
HF you keep talking about impact velocities I.E. B.C. effects penetration then explain why a 220 swift does not out penetrate a 6.5 and why a 6.5 doesnt out penetrate a 45-70.


A 6.5 will outpenetete a 45-70 and a 220 swift will out penetrate a 6.5 on certain mediums and range.
Posted By: J.G.

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/17/14 04:09 PM

MV and BC combined yield more velocity down range. Projectile carrying more velocity upin arrival on target also arrives with more foot pounds of energy.

I had a 22-250 shooting 55 gr SGKs with a MV of 3780 fps. They went subsonic around 600 yards.

I now have a 22-250 shootong 75 gr A-maxes with a MV of 3200 fps. They go subsonic at 1000 yards.

I lost 580 fps at the muzzle but doubled my BC. Same cartridge, same powder and primer, same barrel length. But far better retained velocity down range which also means more retained energy down range.

Plug those numbers into jbmballistics.com and you will see ft/lbs go parrallel with velocity.
Posted By: RiverRider

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/17/14 04:14 PM

Irrelevant.
Posted By: J.G.

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/17/14 04:19 PM

bang you're killing me Smalls!

I'll film what the steel looks like when I shoot my 180 gr 7mm into it. Hit the steel with a short action and it swings back four or five inches. Hit it with that bullet with a huge BC and it swings back three or four times farther. Those plates are 10-18 pounds of hanging steel depending on range. The 7mm is leaving the barrel 200 fps slower than the 22-250 but the bullet weighs more and has a much higher BC.
Posted By: BOBO the Clown

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/17/14 04:27 PM

Originally Posted By: RiverRider
Irrelevant.


Not irrelevant if you exclude bullet construction.

I have no idea why yall are still agrueing over penetration when it takes less then 3" to reach vitals on any ruminant in North America.

Why don't yall agrue wound channel or something
Posted By: Navasot

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/17/14 04:30 PM

An arrow will out penetrate them all peep
Posted By: J.G.

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/17/14 04:31 PM

Because this is what we do.

Because this is fun. grin
Posted By: Judd

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/17/14 04:39 PM

rofl
Posted By: RiverRider

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/17/14 04:51 PM

Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Because this is what we do.

Because this is fun. grin



roflmao


cheers
Posted By: trapperben

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/17/14 04:57 PM

There are 45-70 loads from Garrett and Buffalo Bore that likely will shoot length wise through a brown bear or buffalo if the the shot is take within its hunting range. The old 6.5x55 160 load was famous for its penetration and I have read it was and is favored by many moose hunters in Sweden and Finland. I think the 6.5x55 is the best hunting round never to develop a significant following in the US. I have seen the 223 take deer cleanly but would never use a 22 caliber myself for big game.

RE the Creedmore know nothing about it but have not read anything here to convince me it is better then the old 6.5x55. As far as that goes I still prefer my 257 Bob anyway for deer hunting. I am an old fart and prefer my old guns (300 savage and 30-06 plus the bob). So not important to convince me of anything since I am not buying the rifle either. But I wish HF well with his business.
Posted By: TexFlip

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/17/14 04:58 PM

What have I done?!?!? cheers
Posted By: J.G.

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/17/14 05:14 PM

Originally Posted By: TexFlip
What have I done?!?!? cheers


Alls we need is a spark....
Posted By: RiverRider

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/17/14 05:42 PM

The last thing I'll say on the subject of BC re penetration: you can take two differently constructed bullets of the same BC and hit your quarry in the same place at the same impact velocity, and penetration and wound cavities will be different.

And as Forrest said do often, that's all I got to say about that.
Posted By: J.G.

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/17/14 05:47 PM

Originally Posted By: RiverRider
The last thing I'll say on the subject of BC re penetration: you can take two differently constructed bullets of the same BC and hit your quarry in the same place at the same impact velocity, and penettation and wound cavities may be different.

And as Forrest said do often, that's all I got to say about that.


FIFY.

But I do agree. grin
Posted By: RiverRider

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/17/14 05:53 PM

trout
Posted By: 25-06

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/18/14 04:10 AM

I have on and killed a truck load of animals with it. It's very accurate but not a bang/flop death ray. Had a many pig run a long way with a shoulder shot. I love it no doubt that it works but it's not magic.
Posted By: DStroud

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/18/14 04:30 AM

Today's Creedmoor victim.

Posted By: J.G.

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/18/14 11:28 AM

clap

The only good hog.
Posted By: vanguard

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/18/14 01:00 PM

Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown


A 6.5 will outpenetete a 45-70 and a 220 swift will out penetrate a 6.5 on certain mediums and range.




your kidding right. 45-70 is king of penetration outing even the 458 lott.
6ft of wet newspaper and 4ft of ballistic gel. the creed and 220 are lucky to get 12 inches.
Posted By: dee

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/18/14 01:07 PM

Originally Posted By: vanguard
Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown


A 6.5 will outpenetete a 45-70 and a 220 swift will out penetrate a 6.5 on certain mediums and range.




your kidding right. 45-70 is king of penetration outing even the 458 lott.
6ft of wet newspaper and 4ft of ballistic gel. the creed and 220 are lucky to get 12 inches.


It's very subjective to the types of bullets being used.
Posted By: Nogalus Prairie

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/18/14 01:21 PM

Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
bang you're killing me Smalls!

I'll film what the steel looks like when I shoot my 180 gr 7mm into it. Hit the steel with a short action and it swings back four or five inches. Hit it with that bullet with a huge BC and it swings back three or four times farther. Those plates are 10-18 pounds of hanging steel depending on range. The 7mm is leaving the barrel 200 fps slower than the 22-250 but the bullet weighs more and has a much higher BC.


That right there is the point. The most misunderstood and misused formula in the shooting world is MV squared. Everyone way overemphasizes the velocity part and underemphasizes the mass part. Talking about the KE of a .17 HMR like it could kill a grizzly bear. smile
Posted By: BOBO the Clown

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/18/14 01:22 PM

Originally Posted By: vanguard
Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown


A 6.5 will outpenetete a 45-70 and a 220 swift will out penetrate a 6.5 on certain mediums and range.




your kidding right. 45-70 is king of penetration outing even the 458 lott.
6ft of wet newspaper and 4ft of ballistic gel. the creed and 220 are lucky to get 12 inches.


Not all bullets are created equal nor is distance nor mediums. It's very subjective. You can take plate steel and 220 will pastru where as the creedmoor and 45-70 leave big dents.

In other word don't go all in, unless you set parameters up front
Posted By: BOBO the Clown

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/18/14 01:28 PM

Originally Posted By: Nogalus Prairie
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
bang you're killing me Smalls!

I'll film what the steel looks like when I shoot my 180 gr 7mm into it. Hit the steel with a short action and it swings back four or five inches. Hit it with that bullet with a huge BC and it swings back three or four times farther. Those plates are 10-18 pounds of hanging steel depending on range. The 7mm is leaving the barrel 200 fps slower than the 22-250 but the bullet weighs more and has a much higher BC.


That right there is the point. The most misunderstood and misused formula in the shooting world is MV squared. Everyone way overemphasizes the velocity part and underemphasizes the mass part. Talking about the KE of a .17 HMR like it could kill a grizzly bear. smile


It's not misunderstood at all. Pretty straight forward.
You missed what he was saying. The 7mm had a higher speed at impact due to BC.

Per your agreement we should use a 30-30 170grs bullet over a 300 win mag w/any bullet under 170.
Posted By: vanguard

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/18/14 02:10 PM

Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted By: vanguard
Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown


A 6.5 will outpenetete a 45-70 and a 220 swift will out penetrate a 6.5 on certain mediums and range.




your kidding right. 45-70 is king of penetration outing even the 458 lott.
6ft of wet newspaper and 4ft of ballistic gel. the creed and 220 are lucky to get 12 inches.


Not all bullets are created equal nor is distance nor mediums. It's very subjective. You can take plate steel and 220 will pastru where as the creedmoor and 45-70 leave big dents.

In other word don't go all in, unless you set parameters up front


its also been said a 220 swift will not make it through a beer can at 10 ft but will go through steel at a 100 yds
Posted By: Nogalus Prairie

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/18/14 02:11 PM

I didn't make an argument-just an observation. But, as with everything else in life, balance and common sense are the keys.

You don't want a 6.5 on a grizzly or eland hunt if you can help it.

Conversely, you don'the want (or need) a .375 H&H for a Texas whitetail.

Appropriate caliber choices depending on the game sought have been pretty generally well-known for several generations. Based on what the math says, years and years of experience, and common sense. It ain't rocket science.

Better bullets have expanded the margins some but mostly have just given the guys wanting to turn their pet caliber into a Bigfoot stomper something else to say. smile
Posted By: Jimbo

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/19/14 12:40 AM

A Bigfoot stomper to me would be a 45-70 lever gun!....Just sayin!
Posted By: BOBO the Clown

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 11/19/14 12:51 AM


Originally Posted By: vanguard
Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted By: vanguard
Originally Posted By: BOBO the Clown


A 6.5 will outpenetete a 45-70 and a 220 swift will out penetrate a 6.5 on certain mediums and range.




your kidding right. 45-70 is king of penetration outing even the 458 lott.
6ft of wet newspaper and 4ft of ballistic gel. the creed and 220 are lucky to get 12 inches.


Not all bullets are created equal nor is distance nor mediums. It's very subjective. You can take plate steel and 220 will pastru where as the creedmoor and 45-70 leave big dents.

In other word don't go all in, unless you set parameters up front


its also been said a 220 swift will not make it through a beer can at 10 ft but will go through steel at a 100 yds


It will go through a beer can at 10ft, will also blow a fox in half at 10 feet. But you can't look through the scope, have to look down barrel..... Experience
Posted By: TexFlip

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 01/07/15 04:29 AM

Another case of bang flop. This time it was a 170lb axis buck at 170 with a 129gr SST to the shoulder. Completely severed his upper leg bone and caught his heart before exiting on the off shoulder.

Posted By: rotor_wrench

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 01/07/15 01:01 PM

nice axis buck!! 129 grn sst did the trick
Posted By: redchevy

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 01/07/15 02:36 PM

Was an interesting post to read.

Congrats on some nice axis. Were these true bang flop, DRT as in it immediately fell over at the point of impact and died? or like another poster posted a video of some "DRT/bang flops" that died within sight?
Posted By: TexFlip

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 01/07/15 02:39 PM

Bang/flop as in didn't take a step. Everything I have shot with this rifle has fell where it stood. 3 axis bucks, a WT buck and 3 hogs.
Posted By: HorizonFirearms

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 01/07/15 02:40 PM

Good Work, I want to know where you are getting all these Axis deer.
Posted By: SingleShot85

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 01/07/15 04:38 PM

Originally Posted By: HorizonFirearms
Good Work, I want to know where you are getting all these Axis deer.


I've got lots of them wink maybe we need to work something out, you know my new rifle will need to be test fired..........
Posted By: TexFlip

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 01/07/15 04:44 PM

Originally Posted By: SingleShot85
Originally Posted By: HorizonFirearms
Good Work, I want to know where you are getting all these Axis deer.


I've got lots of them wink maybe we need to work something out, you know my new rifle will need to be test fired..........

Hey!! He asked me! duel My in-laws have a little place in Junction that has a decent population of free range axis.
Posted By: SingleShot85

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 01/07/15 04:54 PM

yeah but the axis I have are a bit tougher and need something a bit stronger the 6.5....boxing

so the 7mm-08 he's building for me will need to be properly evaluated.....

j/k cheers
Posted By: TexFlip

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 01/07/15 04:56 PM

cheers
He'll prolly wanna shoot it with that 22 on steroids.
Posted By: SingleShot85

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 01/07/15 04:58 PM

yeah, just to prove a point........ flehan
Posted By: Buzzsaw

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 01/07/15 10:27 PM

Take your Axis to Taylor at TNT Taxidermy in Ingram. He has the giant dehydrators and does velvet antlers perfectly...
Posted By: HorizonFirearms

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 01/08/15 12:12 AM

HAHA you guys are funny. Definitely the 22 rifle 7.08 is on the table right now
Posted By: TexFlip

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 01/08/15 12:12 AM

Originally Posted By: Buzzsaw
Take your Axis to Taylor at TNT Taxidermy in Ingram. He has the giant dehydrators and does velvet antlers perfectly...

Dropped him off there this morning.
Posted By: SingleShot85

Re: 6.5 Creedmoor is a Beast - 01/09/15 01:23 PM

Originally Posted By: HorizonFirearms
7.08 is on the table right now


grin bounce
© 2024 Texas Hunting Forum