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Interesting read on Tactical Scopes #5650668 03/14/15 03:54 AM
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kmon11 Offline OP
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Saw this review of various scopes and thought it interesting.

Review

Bushnell 3.5-21X50 did pretty well against much higher dollar scopes


lf the saying "Liar, Liar your pants on fire" were true
Mainstream news might be fun to watch
Re: Interesting read on Tactical Scopes [Re: kmon11] #5650860 03/14/15 12:37 PM
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Very interesting and thorough review. Wish he had included the SWFA HD 5-20. He says he didn't because it was on the bottom end of his price criteria, but it wouldn't have even been the cheapest scope in the lineup.

edit to add: admittedly, it's one of the most (if not the most) thorough scope reviews I've ever seen. Just wish I could've seen how the SWFA stacked up against the big dogs in his eyes.

Last edited by patriot07; 03/14/15 01:28 PM.
Re: Interesting read on Tactical Scopes [Re: kmon11] #5651399 03/14/15 11:07 PM
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It's a great review. Since this March has stated that they use a different type of mil measurement which is why their representation was off. I'm not sure I buy that but I don't really care as I have others I want in that price range.


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Re: Interesting read on Tactical Scopes [Re: dee] #5651547 03/15/15 01:34 AM
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Originally Posted By: dee
It's a great review. Since this March has stated that they use a different type of mil measurement which is why their representation was off. I'm not sure I buy that but I don't really care as I have others I want in that price range.
Maybe they use a true milliradian instead of the US military's definition of a mil?

Re: Interesting read on Tactical Scopes [Re: patriot07] #5651607 03/15/15 02:07 AM
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Originally Posted By: patriot07
Originally Posted By: dee
It's a great review. Since this March has stated that they use a different type of mil measurement which is why their representation was off. I'm not sure I buy that but I don't really care as I have others I want in that price range.
Maybe they use a true milliradian instead of the US military's definition of a mil?


A Mil is a Miliradian. It is a triginometry function, and the U.S. military is not in charge of triginometry.


I will read the review tomorrow.


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Re: Interesting read on Tactical Scopes [Re: J.G.] #5651615 03/15/15 02:13 AM
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Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
the U.S. military is not in charge of triginometry.



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Re: Interesting read on Tactical Scopes [Re: TFF Caribou] #5651651 03/15/15 02:41 AM
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Re: Interesting read on Tactical Scopes [Re: patriot07] #5651694 03/15/15 03:13 AM
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Originally Posted By: patriot07
Wish he had included the SWFA HD 5-20.


I doubt the 5-20 would have stacked up well against these other scopes. It just doesn't stand a chance in features or ergonomics. No zero stop, reticle options, no second rev indicator, no turret locks, mag ring problems, etc, etc.

It would have been cool to see how it stacks up in the glass and mechanical performance tests.
After all, these are the most important features of a long range scope.
Does it track reliably and does it have good enough glass to identify the target?

Re: Interesting read on Tactical Scopes [Re: 6.5x47Lapua] #5651849 03/15/15 10:40 AM
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Have you ever used one?


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Re: Interesting read on Tactical Scopes [Re: J.G.] #5651855 03/15/15 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Have you ever used one?


No, but I'm not sure that really matters much. I haven't used most of the scopes on that list. A large portion of that test were based on a scopes features. Judging things like zero stops, turret locks, reticle options, secondary rev indicators, ease of use, etc, etc. That is where the swfa falls short. Thats ok, swfa is trying to provide value, and features cost money. I completely understand that.

I too wish it would have been included. I am genuinely curious how it would have stacked up in the tracking and glass department.

Re: Interesting read on Tactical Scopes [Re: kmon11] #5652023 03/15/15 03:37 PM
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I recently went with the bushnell model with the g2dmr reticle. I couldn't be happier for the price and don't regret the decision one bit!!




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Re: Interesting read on Tactical Scopes [Re: kmon11] #5652026 03/15/15 03:38 PM
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Obviously it lacks somewhere for it to be so great and none of the top big boys use it.

Re: Interesting read on Tactical Scopes [Re: kmon11] #5652062 03/15/15 04:20 PM
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Very thorough, unbiased review. I really liked how he showed the value for your money chart.


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Re: Interesting read on Tactical Scopes [Re: J.G.] #5652075 03/15/15 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Originally Posted By: patriot07
Originally Posted By: dee
It's a great review. Since this March has stated that they use a different type of mil measurement which is why their representation was off. I'm not sure I buy that but I don't really care as I have others I want in that price range.
Maybe they use a true milliradian instead of the US military's definition of a mil?


A Mil is a Miliradian. It is a triginometry function, and the U.S. military is not in charge of triginometry.


I will read the review tomorrow.


Supposedly there is two different versions or standards of the milradian. There was a large discussion on SH about it after the review.


"A vote is like a rifle; it's usefulness depends on the character of the user" Theodore Roosevelt
Re: Interesting read on Tactical Scopes [Re: J.G.] #5652135 03/15/15 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Originally Posted By: patriot07
Originally Posted By: dee
It's a great review. Since this March has stated that they use a different type of mil measurement which is why their representation was off. I'm not sure I buy that but I don't really care as I have others I want in that price range.
Maybe they use a true milliradian instead of the US military's definition of a mil?


A Mil is a Miliradian. It is a triginometry function, and the U.S. military is not in charge of triginometry.


I will read the review tomorrow.
From what I've read, this is incorrect. There are 6283 thousandths of a radian in a circle. The US military rounds up to 6400 to simplify the math. This does help with the math, but also introduces a 2% error in ranging.

Consequently, a "mil" to someone in the US military is actually smaller than a true milliradian according to a mathematician.

Re: Interesting read on Tactical Scopes [Re: patriot07] #5652170 03/15/15 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted By: patriot07
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Originally Posted By: patriot07
Originally Posted By: dee
It's a great review. Since this March has stated that they use a different type of mil measurement which is why their representation was off. I'm not sure I buy that but I don't really care as I have others I want in that price range.
Maybe they use a true milliradian instead of the US military's definition of a mil?


A Mil is a Miliradian. It is a triginometry function, and the U.S. military is not in charge of triginometry.


I will read the review tomorrow.
From what I've read, this is incorrect. There are 6283 thousandths of a radian in a circle. The US military rounds up to 6400 to simplify the math. This does help with the math, but also introduces a 2% error in ranging.

Consequently, a "mil" to someone in the US military is actually smaller than a true milliradian according to a mathematician.


Yes, I saw the rounding. The military is also interested in shooting minute of man or vehicle, not minute of angle. If they choose to round up, that's their business, but it does not "change" the angular measurement of the Mil.

Speaking of MOA, most of us call it a 1" @ 100 yard ratio.. However, those that use MOA at long range and extreme range know it is actually 1.047" @ 100 yards. Mutiply as necessary for those extreme ranges.


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Re: Interesting read on Tactical Scopes [Re: kmon11] #5652195 03/15/15 06:21 PM
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Yes, that was my only point. Do scope manufacturers use a milliradian or 1/6400 of a circle? If there is a mixture of each or if the mil dot reticle is 1/6400 and all other mil reticles are 1/6283, that is the type of thing I was suggesting might account for the variance.

And I agree that for the military's use, the 2% rounding error is mostly irrelevant.

Re: Interesting read on Tactical Scopes [Re: patriot07] #5652324 03/15/15 09:04 PM
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It was only mentioned of the March scope. I've not investigated a variance, personally.


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Re: Interesting read on Tactical Scopes [Re: kmon11] #5652362 03/15/15 09:43 PM
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Really cool article. I did not know tactical scopes could have a margin of error. For whatever reason I though all scopes tracked correctly, this is pretty eye opening and makes me want to check my vortex PST to make sure its tracking properly.

Re: Interesting read on Tactical Scopes [Re: Gone to Texas] #5652472 03/15/15 11:32 PM
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Very good thing to do on all newly aquired scopes. I admit I have not done it on all of mine, including the ViperPST.


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Re: Interesting read on Tactical Scopes [Re: kmon11] #5652731 03/16/15 01:41 AM
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On new scopes I am planning on dialing I will at least do a 4 corners test. From this review though I might have to try that 3.5-21 Bushnell.


lf the saying "Liar, Liar your pants on fire" were true
Mainstream news might be fun to watch
Re: Interesting read on Tactical Scopes [Re: stxhunter] #5652739 03/16/15 01:44 AM
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Originally Posted By: stxhunter
I recently went with the bushnell model with the g2dmr reticle. I couldn't be happier for the price and don't regret the decision one bit!!


I did too. Got mine last week. Awesome scope!

Re: Interesting read on Tactical Scopes [Re: kmon11] #5652741 03/16/15 01:46 AM
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Heck I've been wanting that S & B for a long time. This review made the lust even worse.


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Re: Interesting read on Tactical Scopes [Re: J.G.] #5652913 03/16/15 03:13 AM
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Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Heck I've been wanting that S & B for a long time. This review made the lust even worse.


I was the same way until the Kahles came out now it runs at the top of the list.


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Re: Interesting read on Tactical Scopes [Re: Gone to Texas] #5654269 03/17/15 01:58 AM
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Originally Posted By: Gone to Texas
Really cool article. I did not know tactical scopes could have a margin of error. For whatever reason I though all scopes tracked correctly, this is pretty eye opening and makes me want to check my vortex PST to make sure its tracking properly.


They track well, but not perfect. My first scope when dialed 6 inches right was actually 6.5 inches, same for going up, then back left, then back down. It did end up dialing back to 0 when all was said and done, but .5 inch at 100 yards leaves little to be desired. My second scope is as close to spot on as I can see. It would need touch more technical measurements then what I have to be able to determine error.


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