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Killing 8s - a management question #6295068 05/11/16 04:13 PM
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HuntnFly67 Offline OP
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This last season we were loaded up with typical eights across each age class. I am thinking about putting an edict out that we need to hammer 8s this coming season. Is there anything wrong with that mentality? I am open to the pros and cons and welcome the discussion.

I would like to see the non-typicals and 9s or better live unless they are 5+ year old.

My thought process is as follows:

1. Range conditions last Spring were optimal to produce great antlers. (I'm convinced that some marginal 6s ended up being clean 8s)
2. Range conditions this Spring seem like they will be great as well (hopefully our summer is not too harsh; big deer will get bigger and marginal deer will be average deer)
3. I am tired of seeing 120" eights that stay that way until they die of old age.
4. Spikes don't get a pass either - unless they still have milk on their lips.

Sometimes I wonder if my expectations are too high for the region we hunt. We are on a medium to larger tract of land that is a low fence MLD III property in the Brown/Eastland Co area.

Last edited by HuntnFly67; 05/11/16 04:14 PM.
Re: Killing 8s - a management question [Re: HuntnFly67] #6295183 05/11/16 05:42 PM
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my thought is if you are trying to manage to more than 8 pts for the most part then shoot the 8 pts that are 3 years old and older. Nothing wrong with it, just tune the harvest to your goals. Don't forget to shoot the does to though. But if you are on MLDs already you have that quota to. What does your biologist say?


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Re: Killing 8s - a management question [Re: HuntnFly67] #6295420 05/11/16 08:48 PM
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Had a 3yr old 8pt here that went to a 10pt at 4 years old. Was a 22" 8 and went to a 24" 10pt. IMO you never know what their going to do till they hit 4. I would not shoot 8pts till they reach 4. I don't shoot spikes either, I've owned the ranch 18 years and have never seen a 2yr old spike here.

Last edited by Stompy; 05/11/16 08:50 PM.

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Re: Killing 8s - a management question [Re: HuntnFly67] #6295472 05/11/16 09:20 PM
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I like to compare them to their running buddies. In my experience 2 year old spikes surely do exist, otherwise I don't know how to explain the ones ive shot the last 2 years that weighed 130 lbs each.


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Re: Killing 8s - a management question [Re: HuntnFly67] #6295509 05/11/16 10:00 PM
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On a LF ranch in Edwards county we follow almost the exact same guidelines.
We harvest 4.5 yr old or older 8 pts and try to let the 9 pts or better reach 6.5 yr old.
Our 6.5 yr old 10 pts average upper 130's / mid 140's.
Every few years it seems we are able to harvest a 150 class buck and have had two 160 class bucks harvested over a 20 year time period.
I don't know if what we are doing is right or wrong, just trying to give you our results to compare to.

Re: Killing 8s - a management question [Re: HuntnFly67] #6295510 05/11/16 10:02 PM
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I just put a blanket on 4yr old other than injured deer... unless your dealing with enough property and money

Re: Killing 8s - a management question [Re: HuntnFly67] #6295589 05/11/16 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted By: HuntnFly67
This last season we were loaded up with typical eights across each age class. I am thinking about putting an edict out that we need to hammer 8s this coming season. Is there anything wrong with that mentality? I am open to the pros and cons and welcome the discussion.

I would like to see the non-typicals and 9s or better live unless they are 5+ year old.

My thought process is as follows:

1. Range conditions last Spring were optimal to produce great antlers. (I'm convinced that some marginal 6s ended up being clean 8s)
2. Range conditions this Spring seem like they will be great as well (hopefully our summer is not too harsh; big deer will get bigger and marginal deer will be average deer)
3. I am tired of seeing 120" eights that stay that way until they die of old age.
4. Spikes don't get a pass either - unless they still have milk on their lips.

Sometimes I wonder if my expectations are too high for the region we hunt. We are on a medium to larger tract of land that is a low fence MLD III property in the Brown/Eastland Co area.


Sometimes you just need to thin 8's also...they will gang up on you ..mature of course up


Re: Killing 8s - a management question [Re: HuntnFly67] #6295616 05/11/16 11:41 PM
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What SniperRAB said "Sometimes you just need to thin 8's also...they will gang up on you ..mature of course up".

I saw many mature 8s last year and felt they needed to be culled. Sometimes hunters are scared to shoot for fear the big buck may be coming and just don't see him yet... and never do. I agree to tailor to your management plan for the future.

Re: Killing 8s - a management question [Re: HuntnFly67] #6295618 05/11/16 11:43 PM
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If I read correctly you never said how many over 8 point deer you saw. If you are only seeing 8 point deer and you shoot them all what will you end up with?

Re: Killing 8s - a management question [Re: HuntnFly67] #6295848 05/12/16 01:37 AM
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One thing I failed to mention was that we probably harvest five 8 pt to every 9 pt or better that we harvest. So yes, we put an emphasis on taking out the eight points. However, we have a strong 9/10 pt gene pool on the ranch. We also shoot spikes and other freak/undesirable bucks that we deem as culls. Every ranch is different and every group of hunters are different. I wish you luck putting a game plan together and hope to hear tales of your success!

Re: Killing 8s - a management question [Re: HuntnFly67] #6296131 05/12/16 12:23 PM
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We hunt a smaller property, only 320 acres, so we cant support a large number of mature deer. We spend most of our time watching and dreaming about a select few deer and the rest of it shooting does and some of the lesser bucks.


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Re: Killing 8s - a management question [Re: HuntnFly67] #6296144 05/12/16 12:34 PM
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Last season was my buddy's first with his new ranch. It was strictly a "cull only" season. Targets were older spikes, older 8's with short tines, and 2 year olds or better with no brow tines. Seems like a sensible plan and we will probably do the same thing in season 2.

Last edited by Ag Hunter 78; 05/12/16 12:34 PM.

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Re: Killing 8s - a management question [Re: HuntnFly67] #6296218 05/12/16 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted By: HuntnFly67
This last season we were loaded up with typical eights across each age class. I am thinking about putting an edict out that we need to hammer 8s this coming season. Is there anything wrong with that mentality? I am open to the pros and cons and welcome the discussion.

I would like to see the non-typicals and 9s or better live unless they are 5+ year old.

My thought process is as follows:

1. Range conditions last Spring were optimal to produce great antlers. (I'm convinced that some marginal 6s ended up being clean 8s)
2. Range conditions this Spring seem like they will be great as well (hopefully our summer is not too harsh; big deer will get bigger and marginal deer will be average deer)
3. I am tired of seeing 120" eights that stay that way until they die of old age.
4. Spikes don't get a pass either - unless they still have milk on their lips.

Sometimes I wonder if my expectations are too high for the region we hunt. We are on a medium to larger tract of land that is a low fence MLD III property in the Brown/Eastland Co area.


Simple answer you won't change the genetics by culling at 2.5 or 6.5.

When you cull in any age class you are deciding you are done letting him compete for food. A good thinning never hurts unless you have no deer already



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Re: Killing 8s - a management question [Re: redchevy] #6296234 05/12/16 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted By: redchevy
In my experience 2 year old spikes surely do exist, otherwise I don't know how to explain the ones ive shot the last 2 years that weighed 130 lbs each.



I don't doubt they do, I've seen a couple on other places I've hunted years ago. I've just never seen one here.


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Re: Killing 8s - a management question [Re: HuntnFly67] #6296293 05/12/16 02:37 PM
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If you took out mature 8's and 10's, would you get more 12's? Just saying.


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Re: Killing 8s - a management question [Re: HuntnFly67] #6296304 05/12/16 02:40 PM
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Easy way to answer the question: where are your numbers at? Do you have overall density and Buck: Doe ratio where you want it? Shooting enough does today? How's the overall habitat looking? How are your body weights compared to the average for your area?

If the numbers are where you want, and your overall herd is in good shape nothing wrong with taking "mature" 8's. We start taking them at 4.5yo to make room for the younger, promising deer. But, like Bobo said, culling a few 8's won't change your genetics.

Re: Killing 8s - a management question [Re: HuntnFly67] #6296335 05/12/16 03:05 PM
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I believe his question is if you take out a bunch of 8s and leave the 10s alone to hopefully do more of the breeding, will you get a better 10 pt to 8 pt ratio on the place?

Re: Killing 8s - a management question [Re: rabbit_jack] #6296350 05/12/16 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted By: rabbit_jack
I believe his question is if you take out a bunch of 8s and leave the 10s alone to hopefully do more of the breeding, will you get a better 10 pt to 8 pt ratio on the place?


Ultimately I suppose that is our goal. Just was talking to a guy that says he dirt naps every 8 he sees. They have some stellar deer and are hunting less than 10 miles from us. I just am trying to be as good of a steward of the land/wildlife as possible while maximizing the enjoyment I receive from it at the same time.

Herd ratio and health is optimal, habitat/range conditions are excellent, we are somewhat below what I think max carrying capacity is.

Maybe my expectations are unrealistic for our region though. I am just bored with seeing 120" 8s and hoped after 8 years of pretty intense management we would have had a bigger bump in antler quality.

Last edited by HuntnFly67; 05/12/16 03:19 PM.
Re: Killing 8s - a management question [Re: HuntnFly67] #6296367 05/12/16 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted By: HuntnFly67
Originally Posted By: rabbit_jack
I believe his question is if you take out a bunch of 8s and leave the 10s alone to hopefully do more of the breeding, will you get a better 10 pt to 8 pt ratio on the place?


Ultimately I suppose that is our goal. Just was talking to a guy that says he dirt naps every 8 he sees. They have some stellar deer and are hunting less than 10 miles from us. I just am trying to be as good of a steward of the land/wildlife as possible while maximizing the enjoyment I receive from it at the same time.

Herd ratio and health is optimal, habitat/range conditions are excellent, we are somewhat below what I think max carrying capacity is.

Maybe my expectations are unrealistic for our region though. I am just bored with seeing 120" 8s and hoped after 8 years of pretty intense management we would have had a bigger bump in antler quality.


Gotcha. Sounds like y'all are in pretty good shape and quite a ways down the management path. How big is the place? Neighbors having much of an influence? Assume you guys have an established protein program in place for a while? Being MLD 3, you should have the flexibility to direct those buck tags pretty well as you see fit. I reckon your thinking is correct to start making the mature 8's a higher % of the harvest. If you can get on them and your target does pre-rut you will at least open up the possibility of more of your "preferred bucks" breeding your remaining does this year, and maybe open up opportunities for younger better bucks.

For what it's worth we're in a similar boat. Lots of 8's in our older age classes with pockets of really promising genetics in some younger deer. I'm going to encourage our guys to take a mature 8 as their trophy this year if they see a good candidate, and will probably open up a few as management bucks too so they will be more likely to pull the trigger. Finally had a young typical 12 show up, want that dude to "court the ladies" as much as possible.

Re: Killing 8s - a management question [Re: HuntnFly67] #6296368 05/12/16 03:39 PM
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What are you seeing bigger than these 8's?


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Re: Killing 8s - a management question [Re: HuntnFly67] #6296372 05/12/16 03:42 PM
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Most of the gurus on here/studies that I read say you can't shoot your way to better genetics.


Originally Posted by Russ79
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.


Re: Killing 8s - a management question [Re: HuntnFly67] #6296380 05/12/16 03:48 PM
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Even though you feel you are under the max capacity of what your land will carry, try to find out what your neighbors deer density is compared to yours.

Re: Killing 8s - a management question [Re: Nogalus Prairie] #6296392 05/12/16 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted By: Nogalus Prairie
Most of the gurus on here/studies that I read say you can't shoot your way to better genetics.


True, but you can choose only to raise the better genetics to maturity popcorn


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Re: Killing 8s - a management question [Re: HuntnFly67] #6296393 05/12/16 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted By: HuntnFly67
Originally Posted By: rabbit_jack
I believe his question is if you take out a bunch of 8s and leave the 10s alone to hopefully do more of the breeding, will you get a better 10 pt to 8 pt ratio on the place?


Ultimately I suppose that is our goal. Just was talking to a guy that says he dirt naps every 8 he sees. They have some stellar deer and are hunting less than 10 miles from us. I just am trying to be as good of a steward of the land/wildlife as possible while maximizing the enjoyment I receive from it at the same time.

Herd ratio and health is optimal, habitat/range conditions are excellent, we are somewhat below what I think max carrying capacity is.

Maybe my expectations are unrealistic for our region though. I am just bored with seeing 120" 8s and hoped after 8 years of pretty intense management we would have had a bigger bump in antler quality.


Culling never stops, No matter how many eights you kill you will still have them. With that said the guys that have the tags numbers to make a very large and sweeping dent will have a better chance at getting closer to the "perceived" outcome of what they want.

The most effective thing about culling that many truly over look is that it controls hunters more then the deer. By that I mean if you are on MLD and say you can shoot 3 bucks a peice, your hunters will be more inclined to let a boarder line 10 or 4.5 10 or 5.5 10 get get a pass for another year because their trigger itch gets cured with two 8pts hitting the ground.

Me personally I cull (non trophy tag) by frame for the area, not points starting at 4.5. No good reason for me to shoot a 3.5 year old buck on my lease unless I'm feeding $$$$$$ of feed.

With that said normally I'm looking for a 5.5 or older that doesn't break 130. On my current lease if it all parties would agree I'd move it to 135, then creep up to 140.


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Re: Killing 8s - a management question [Re: BOBO the Clown] #6296405 05/12/16 04:11 PM
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[quote=BOBO the Clown]Culling never stops, No matter how many eights you kill you will still have them. With that said the guys that have the tags numbers to make a very large and sweeping dent will have a better chance at getting closer to the "perceived" outcome of what they want.

The most effective thing about culling that many truly over look is that it controls hunters more then the deer. By that I mean if you are on MLD and say you can shoot 3 bucks a peice, your hunters will be more inclined to let a boarder line 10 or 4.5 10 or 5.5 10 get get a pass for another year because their trigger itch gets cured with two 8pts hitting the ground.

Me personally I cull (non trophy tag) by frame for the area, not points starting at 4.5. No good reason for me to shoot a 3.5 year old buck on my lease unless I'm feeding $$$$$$ of feed.

With that said normally I'm looking for a 5.5 or older that doesn't break 130. On my current lease if it all parties would agree I'd move it to 135, then creep up to 140.


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