When it comes down to hunting prices. If you pay over let's say 500$ or more. I've seen hunts for as high as 18,000$. I'll never understand why people pay that much but hopefully one day I will as I continue to fall in love with hunting.

How Do you respond when you didn't harvest the deer or animal you wanted? Is it rude to ask for you money back? should you only ask for half or is there a hidden moral law kinda like "hey we didn't get what you wanted so here is a third of your money back." I realize that land owner/leasers have family's and have to make a living totally understand. I was just curious if there is a hunters etiquette to say the least on both sides of the fence. If you have ever been a situation like this please give me your story and thoughts on the matter. I'd like to hear from both sides if possible(seller/buyer. If you look for specifics when your booking hunt and you find out it's not what you thought. Is it rude to back out and ask for you money back? I've seen that on here where people have bad gut feelings when they appear at a ranch or over hear a conversation that alerted them and they should of left but they didn't. Is that because it is rude?

First off do your homework before you lay out any money. It is no ones fault. It may be the hunter for a number of reasons. It may be the property for a number of reasons. You paid to play so you are the one holding the empty bag. No one to blame except the one who laid out the money.

It is hunting and not killing. You book a hunt with the best guide/outfitter/ranch that is out there, but no one can make the animals move when they want them to. I do my homework before I book a hunt. I ask the questions I need to ask and if I get the answers I am looking for then I book a hunt. I also ask for references and call everyone they give me. I do not like "guaranteed" hunts.

Now that is an awesome tip! I'll carry that one with me.. That's what I probably should have posted. Tips before you book a hunt. I never thought to call references. Thanks guys, keep'em coming! I also get the do your homework part. I am just looking for further knowledge to put in my tool box.

I have several spoiled by bad weather and bad conditions an walked away empty handed...That's why its called Hunting, I always made the best of it and have never made a guide or Rancher fell bad. In my experience they have invited me back and always been fair, I always look at it as they have to make a living also. I always put a ton of research or had first hand experience of the operation. It always works out at the end

That is also how I look at it to. I know they have families as well. I think the invite part is a good example of an option if you don't get anything. I also think that is why a lot of guides/outfitters say "I'll include a free hog." That part really scares me because it makes me think there is a slim to zero chance I'll see what I am wanting to really harvest.

I would never ask for any money back. You always hope for a harvest, but even under the most ideal of condition's, nothing is guaranteed, and if someone told me it was, I'd probably tell them they were nuts.

We hunted Circle T Ranch a couple of years ago. (It's since been sold) Hog's were thick as was the terrain. Our guide worked his butt off, and did everything he could. No one in our group was able to get a clear/clean shot.

We called it quit's at midnight. 2 other's stayed out til 4 a.m. and neither succeeded.

Disappointed? A little bit, but that goes with the territory. Food on the table is important, but so is time outdoor's doing what we love.

I'm happy to pay either way. We tipped our guide generously the next morning over breakfast. The man busted his backside, but sometimes animal's are alot smarter then we give them credit.

There are various arrangements possible.

You might pay $x dollars for the accommodations and then a success fee.

You might pay the entire guide fee up front.

You might pick the exact buck you want ahead of time or you might have no idea what you'll ever see.

The key is to have a clear understanding between both parties ahead of time.

I spent a ton of money hunting elephant and worked my butt off but never saw a shootable bull. The PH is now one of my best friends, I send packages to the skinner, tracker &, cook and, I had more fun on that hunt than any other. Hunting is about relationship and friendship...

That is why I hunt!!!

Relationships and Friendships, you can take those to your grave. You cannot take money...

According to some, you can if it is HF.

Nowadays better than half of my hunts are unsuccessful. I'm always looking for a big animal, and I firmly believe that you'll never have big trophies on your wall if you're willing to settle for an average trophy. So, I often come home empty handed. Besides, I hunt for the experience, and in taking up the pursuit, I sometimes find a trophy, but I never fail to find myself. For me, that is the essence of the reason I hunt.

Regarding the OP's point, if I'm in good game country and see some animals, even if I don't shoot, I consider it a success. The land owner or outfitter has no obligation to refund any money, although sometimes they will offer a discount on a future hunt. Of course, they can't control the weather, which is always a wild card.

As long as you check references and do your homework, you can avoid most of the bad apples out there.

I agree with most the others, I wouldn't hold the rancher or guide responsible if I didn't harvest an animal. Same goes with a lease, it is up to you to do your research, scouting, etc. Most the time, hunting is about the adventure more so than the grand finale.

With that said, there are plenty of people out there that misrepresent what they have to offer and the opportunities. There was a ranch adjacent to the place that I hunt that was day leasing and advertising deer from 150-165", there wasn't much of a chance of that happening on that place. There are also plenty of stories that pop up on here about places to avoid...but most of that can be avoided with a little research.

For leases, the majority of the burden lies in doing the proper due diligence before signing the lease.

Individual hunts are a different matter:
For migratory birds, deer, trophy hogs, predators, or any bigger game (that is fair chase), you cannot fault a land owner/guide unless something is really F'ed up. You also cannot fault them for weather. You may find some that will offer a price break on a repeat visit, but that would not be expected unless it was in the terms up front.

Upland birds, P'dogs, and the like are a little different. You are paying to be put on resident game. If the land owner/guide puts you on a shot out P'dog town, or in fields where trained dogs cannot find birds under favorable scenting conditions, then I believe there is a different expectation.

Alright. I can take all that with a grain of salt. You could compare it to fishing. I have spent hundreds dollars on fishing gear and came away with nothing. When you talk about the pursuit of what your really looking for. I guess I am seeking a thrill. The quite, the cold, any and everything else that makes it worth while to "suck" while your waiting for your opportunity. I don't have a hunting partner or a mentor. I have someone I ask questions to and you all lol.. My most major disappointments are just myself and the way I hunt. Again I'll do my research but I just never knew there was so much to your prey. Which makes it all the more challenging but just as some of you said above it is an experience. I am glad I made the mistake of the 200$ hunt I had and not something more. I didn't expect the owner to tell me not to shower or to get deer pee or scent cover. lol I didn't even know they sold that stuff. Again it isn't his job to tell me but I just felt like he could tell me everything else that seemed important. Get there 4 hours before. Buy more deer corn. He knew I was shooting with a rifle but yet he still put me at a feeder that was 15-20 yards. I am not the one to complain but man I mean I was up there for 2 weeks.. 2 weeks! I can't say I was taken advantage of because he gave me quite awhile. I just never would of thought that maybe it was me the whole time.

The only time I would request a refund is if the hunt was not as advertised. In other words facilities were not what was represented or a guide was very lazy. But if it is because the game was not there or what was expected then you just learn and move on. Also there are some hunts that you pay a base price and only pay an additional trophy fee if you pull the trigger. I have been on a number of those hunts and that is not a bad way to operate IMO.

I agree with what everyone has said. I think it is the same as gambling, if you will beat yourself if it comes out a total loss, then you probably shouldn't do it. Your only buying an opportunity and there are many folks who also get a lease and have nothing to show for it.

I personally think many hunts are over stated and hunters come in with overly high expectations (not entirely their fault IMO). I also think the more you spend, the more you should expect. In other words say, a DIY moose hunt on my own for 7k, or a hunt with Jim Shocky for 13K. Both cases have no guarantee, just one has much better odds.

I've been to Alaska hunting three times. First time for moose and caribou. I shot a real nice double shovel caribou, but even legal moose I saw was on the wrong side of a very large river or so far off in the woods that by the time I got there, he was long gone. Second moose hunt I never saw a legal animal. Third time i went for dall sheep. I saw several that where close to 40 inches, had an easy shot at one that was easily 40 on one side, but broomed off badly on the other side, so I passed. Then on the last day I shot a nice 36 inch ram. It never crossed my mind to ask for my money back or complain that I didn't get a moose on two of those trips. It's hunting and going to Alaska is more then just killing an animal, it's an adventure that you have to experience to understand.

One trip that I did demand my money back on and got it was a hunt in Southeast Idaho with an outfitter out of Steamboat Springs. He said that he had several private ranches to hunt on totally 20,000 acres with a limited number of hunters. Turned out he owned 80 acres and he was sneaking us onto private land that when we got caught on there, and thrown off by the landowner, he just lied to us saying that he really wasn't the landowner and that he would straighten it out. And he would take us onto public land and say it was private, then when we ran into local hunters, he said they where trespassing. One day we where on a ridge at first light when dozens and dozens of ATV's drove by below us on what he said was private land. At first we wanted to believe him, but it was just too much and it didn't' take much to find out he was lying about having private land to hunt on. We demanded our money back, he disappeared from the lodge for two days. His dad showed up and told us to leave, we refused until we got our money back. His dad came back with checks made out to each of us. We went into town and cashed them at the local bank they where drawn up on before leaving. We contacted the Fish and Game and they flew out to my house in CA to interview us about the hunt and what all had happened. I kept all my notes and they asked me to testify in court, but before that happened, he cut a plea and gave up his outfitters license for five years.

I've been on other hunts where I didn't get anything, but that one to Idaho was the only one where it was so bad that I felt I had been ripped off.

Eddie

As TLK said, I know some hog hunting outfitters operate like that - such as $ per lbs on the hogs you shot. The reputable places are typically booked up months ahead, for a good reason.

As a newbie, I would feel disappointed going home empty handed after spending $ with an outfitter. To me hunting is still more harvesting than sports. Maybe over time I will enjoy the sports side more. OP mentioned fishing. When fishing, I don't feel bad not catch a fish anymore and I often do C&R, but at first I even wanted to take undersized fish home.

Don't go on the hunt if your not ready to pay... the hunt is what your paying for anyway not the kill

A few personal experiences.... 21 days Sheep hunting never pulled the trigger......15 days Brown Bear hunting never pulled the trigger...10 days Elk hunting never pulled the trigger... saw game every time. Just not the mature one I was looking for. But I was hunting... Priceless

All of you have great things to take away from. Learn as you go on basically. The tip about places being booked up in advance was nice! I wrote that one down. lol.. Eddie Walker, Was there something you picked up from that hunt in Idaho? like do you call references now or do just do more in-depth research? I would one day love to hunt in Alaska. I heard that is a hunters paradise.

When booking a hunt ( either as a hunter or outfitter) I request and give as much upfront information as possible to avoid any confusion or misrepresentation. I ask a lot of questions of the property and decided whether or not to book based on my research or questions and any hunter should do the same.

for instance, for our whitetail hunts at any of the ranches I deal with I can guarantee shot opps at does or management bucks, 100% of the time. if I don't get you a legitimate shot op. I re-book the hunt at no cost but I'm not refunding anything, I'm out time, gas, food, etc. if its something else like a axis deer hunt I'm real upfront and although they are present in good numbers they are very elusive and we may see them, may not. that's part of it. I've gone to a system where we charge X amount per day and X amount kill fee for the animal and I think that is the most agreeable to both parties, you are compensated for your time and if the hunter does not have an shot opp he is not distraught cause he lost out on $2500 and didn't see the targeted quarry.


that being said, its impossible to make some people happy. I see it most often with hog hunters and dove hunters. They almost Expect to kill hogs and doves, even if they can't shoot. I've never had an issue with a deer hunter, but had several with hog hunters and dove hunters. you have to understand when hunting wild animals in a free range or even high fence environment then your on their schedule. an outfitter cannot make them appear anymore than he can make it rain or the sun to come out.

I've hunted some of the best dove properties in the lower half of the state and had some shoots when 5 of us killed 2 birds between us, and other days on the same place we could have limited out in 30 mins with tennis rackets. its all about the cooperation of the game and being in the right place at the right time.

its kinda like roulette, your paying to have a chip on the table, hoping the ball is gonna fall on your mark

Here are my thoughts for what they are worth. If the hunt price is $500 or less, then your day spent hunting or fishing, regardless of harvest, is money well spent - especially if there were any other amenities provided (lodging, water/drinks, meals, etc.). That's a basic fair day rate for services provided.

Once you get over $500, then I would make sure I understand what the deal is with the outfitter up front. It is rare that an outfitter would require full price up front without a harvest (for in-state Texas hunts). Most ask for a reasonable day deposit or 50% deposit. Depending on the species - I would be very cautious about booking with anyone who asks for full payment up front. A question you should always ask is "what happens if we don't harvest anything?" and base your actions based on their answers.

Typically, there are all sorts of factors that can cause a hunt to be unsuccessful. Most outfitters will ask you to return to complete the hunt, if not for free then at a greatly discounted cost. If the deal is balance on harvest or blood drawn, and you don't do either - then you shouldn't have to pay hundreds to thousands of dollars for an animal not harvested. However, keep in mind that the outfitter/guide has real expenses out of his pocket, as well as his time, whether you shoot something or not.

Usually all this is not a problem since most outfitters sincerely wish you are successful and will work their butts off to make that happen. And if things don't work out, are very fair on balance of the trip, or inviting you back to complete the harvest at a later date (provided you aren't a real a-hole during the hunt).

That being said, there are a few shady operators out there who will book for hunts for animals they simply don't have. Either the animals simply don't exist, or the quality or numbers have been grossly misrepresented. If you pay full harvest fee up front, then there's really not much you can do but learn a hard lesson. Legal action is usually a waste of time and more money. But if you manage your deposit and have understand up front, then you really can't be too upset. A couple of hundred for a deposit or day fee for a day in the bush can be enjoyable too.

I have done a lot of pay hunts, and I have had VERY FEW bad experiences - and none that hurt too bad. The only two I can think that left a bad taste in my mouth were (a) paying $150 day fee for an axis/doe hunt (with kill fee to be paid later) and come to find out later there were ZERO axis on the property. The guide kept urging me to shoot a blackbuck or ram all day - and only when the LO showed up later in the afternoon did I learn the axis had been gone for months. Another time (b) paying $500 deposit for WT deer hunt for me and a friend where we could shoot a mature deer up to 138" and not seeing anything close to that in two days - which in itself was OK, but our "guides" were constantly pointing out 90-100" young deer and saying they were 130-135". And finally, (c) paying $100 day to hunt some pastures near Memphis, TX for WT/Mulies and seeing nothing but mulie does (if anything) after several trips. (And the last one I probably shouldn't mention because I did see a 150"+ WT and a HUGE mulie there driving through after season once).

In all three of these cases, we had an enjoyable time out in the woods and weren't out anything more than a daily fee, which was fair. Heck, I would pay $100 just to sit in a blind and just take pictures of 150"+ deer - and actually have sometime!

I love these guys who hunt elephant and sheep on the highest of dollar hunts talking like they are an average guy working in a factory. Y'all are nuts. If I paid $18,000 for a hunt there dang sure better be an opportunity to score. But I guess if I had the discretionary funds to afford hunts like that I probably wouldn't be as uptight about not scoring on those hunts. Shoot that is half a years salary for many of the guys I hunt with. While there is plenty of good information here and to be had if you look in the right places let me clue you into this. Hunting is a hobby. It is an extracurricular activity that we spend our extra money on after our bills are paid. That said realize that there are times when we will not be successful. But if you spend decent money on a hunt make sure it is with a reputable outfitter and you will more than likely at least have a good experience. However . . . remember booking hunts is like loaning money. If you can't afford to lose it without hurting your bottom line, or your pride, keep it in your pocket.