It's looking like the new pup is going to need to be force fetch trained. She will retrieve but not consistently.

How about a few opinions on this practice.

I won't EVER own another dog that isn't! It is good on so many levels, even beyond the retrieve. I am currently working my nephew's FBECS through the process.

I'd say do it!

what type of dog? Is the dog not interested in retrieving or does it have low desire?? or is the dog just not bringing something back correctly? Force fetch may or may not be the answer in your situation. How old is the dog? Some dogs lose interest when the begin losing their puppy teeth. You need to answer some of these questions before we can provide a real answer for you.

The practice for FF, when done correctly, is common place with the highest level retrievers in the world. You can find great Force Fetch videos for purchase from Mike Lardy. If you want an alternative option to traditional Force Fetch, you can look for some videos by Bill Hillman on this topic. Also, if your dog just has low retrieving desire, Bill Hillman has some videos on increasing and teaching desire.

Agree ^^^^^

Force Fetch is a must for my dogs but I am not certain without further clarification if it will be what your looking for.

It was pretty simple for me.

Good ol' Bill. Thanks for the smile.


Now......
She's 11 months. She has a robust and independent nature.
She retrieves well at times but at other times is indifferent.
My other bird dogs were natural retrievers so I never have encountered this situation.
I've also heard that dogs that are forced fetched are easier to train in other areas...i.e. whoa training, etc., although her other obedience training has gone very well.

I think she is a good candidate for force fetching.

Breed?
Goals for the dog?
Target bird species?

If you decide to FF get a good reputable source or get help.

The dog's sit should be solid first

Sequence:

Hold
Ear pinch
Walking fetch
Stick fetch


I think FF is one of the most misunderstood training practices.

She's a pointer. We upland bird hunt. She already sits, heals, comes on call and will stay.

Any natural retriever can refuse to fetch. Force breaking gives control to you in all situations. It is as tough on me as it is the dog. If Buster (Field bred Cocker) ever refuses he will be force broke. I doubt he will but he could. He loves it too much and I have never had a dog with this much drive. Jury is still out on Missy but I really think once she is in a hunting situation she will be awesome. Coclers live to please you.

On a side note I force broke every English Pointer trial dog I ever had. I never paid anyone. Wear leather gloves the first week or 2.

This^^^. Find a pro to help you train or do it for you, that specializes in the 3 questions above.

I would not put one through FF unless it needed it for competition. Hunting dead and finding cripples is the most important part of the equation.

Appreciate the input but I guess what I'm asking for is opinions about dogs that you have owned and force fetched, how did it work out for you?
Sometimes I have trouble accurately communicating what I'm after.

I went through FF for the first time with my current dog at about 7 months old. It did nothing but increase her desire, strength our bond and teach me more about how to train her.

I believe if done incorrectly it can become a negative thing. I did not want a dog that was sulking around cowering and scared. My dog gained confidence and desire. FF clarified for her what I wanted. She just wants to know what it is I want a FF gives you the tools to make it clear and lets the dog know they only have one option and that's to do the thing you want.

Force Fetch was great for my dog as well. There are no side effects if done correctly. Very simply...FF teaches a dog a way to stop the pressure, which then translates into future and more advanced training concepts with the ecollar.

HOWEVER...I have a labrador. So does BradyBuck. I have no experience or knowledge on doing FF with a Pointer and the pros/cons/side effects/future training, etc.

I totally agree with the two post above!

First dog that I had that was force fetched was a lab, after seeing the positive outcome from it I decided then that I would never own a dog that wasn't!

I did it on my Pudelpointer myself and am again pleased with the outcome! As I stated above,I am currently working an English cocker spaniel through the process, and after one week am already seeing positive results!

Go to YouTube and search for Standing Stone Kennels. They have a video series they did on it starting from the first day on the table to the last. I used these videos when I ff my pp and it worked great for me!

Thank you gentlemen.
I'm only in the consideration mode at this point. Seeing some videos would also help.
My pointer wants to do anything I ask, as most dogs do, but she sometimes has difficulty understanding my instruction.

I've found that is is easier to break pointing dogs if they have never been allowed to retrieve.

Why?

Experience for me. I've never seen it written. The breaking process includes the pup standing and watching the bird fly away.

And then retrieving on command. It's all about control. A well trained dog is a happy dog that hunts for you.

My only experience has been in NSTRA and hunting wild bobwhite quail. Most of these dogs break at shot. I've done FF before and after the breaking process. A lot depends on the pup but mine broke easier when they were never had the opportunity to retrieve.

My advice is to force fetch. It is something I do with all my bird dogs. How advanced you go beyond FF is a seperate question. FF gives you a clear line of communication with your dog regarding retrieving. In other words, after force fetch you have a means to address a refusal to retrieve that your dog clearly understands. It is also the foundation that most advanced retriever trainers build on. I recommend you purchase The Danny Farmer/Judy Aycock DVD. They are both legendary retriever trainers. Danny Farmer is in Anderson TX., and Judy Aycock is in Sanger TX. Both are in easy driving distance of Ovilla, if you need help with their program. In my experience FF gives clarity and structure to both dog and handler regarding retrieving. After saying that, with some dogs more than others the retrieving desire needs to be nurtured and cultivated. There are also dogs that lack the natural retrieving desire and it's probably not worth the trouble with those

These people of whom Smokey Speaks are at the TOP of this list. I would see if you could work out something with Danny Farmer. Back in the late 80's when I was running all the Hunt Tests with my 1st Lab, Force Fetch was what got her through to a Master Title. My dog had Candlewood and Trumarc blood, she was VERY "hot" without help from a Pro Trainer, Gary Johnson, this would have never happened. Ed Aycock a Vet in Lewisville was my vet. He is a master and as Smokey says His Wife Judy is magic.

Get with a Pro trainer at least on Force Fetch. It is hard and NOT FUN. To be dome correctly, the dog will be subject to PAIN/REWARD. emphasis on PAIN. Like I say it's not fun to do or watch but it is required for any field work where you want your dog under control when the are out of your reach (all the time)

Also, remember, NOBODY wants to hunt with a dog which is not trained WELL. An uncontrolled dog will ruin the hunt for everyone. And you will be hoarse from screaming at her all day.

We've all been on those hunts and felt bad for the hunter AND the poor dog on the receiving end.

Thanks again guys.
Sanger is not too far away, I used to fish Ray Bob all the time.
If I get a little lost in this process, I'll give Judy a call.

Based on your posts, it seems like many upland bird dogs would greatly benefit - and have - from this training.

The proper sequence for FF is:
Hold
Walking hold
Ear Pinch
Collar fetch (from hand & from table)
Move to the ground and repeat the previous step
Walking Fetch (with stick then e-collar)
Force to pile

Force fetch will not replace retrieving desire. Does your dog lack retrieving desire or is it still immature and get distracted while retrieving? If you can't determine this then you need to get an experienced evaluation. If you try to force fetch a dog with low retrieving desire it usually doesn't end well. You can go to my Facebook page and see videos of a Pudelpointer I Force fetched this summer. There are a couple of videos of him in the field after Force fetch was done.