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 switching from H4831SC to H4831 for better case fill
#7219676
07/09/18 06:40 PM
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,100
TackDriver
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I am in the process of loading 130 Bergers and H4831SC which I have been using a long time and it shoots decent groups. I was wondering if switching to H4831 to get better case fill ( longer granules )would increase some accuracy and a more uniform powder burn since the H4831SC does not fill the 6.5 x 284 case. Just a thought before I start making some 3 shot group loads to find a node. Thanks.
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Re: switching from H4831SC to H4831 for better case fill
[Re: TackDriver]
#7219697
07/09/18 07:00 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,523
RiverRider
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I've used both and seen no significant difference, but the last rifle in which I used plain ol H4831 was an off-the-shelf 700 and wasn't terribly accurate to begin with. I know your rifles are a bit more special than that. I would be interested in knowing what you find out. If one seems to outperform the other it would be even more interesting to find out whether it was due to the kernel size difference or attributable to lot-to-lot variation.
![[Linked Image]](https://i.imgur.com/Kqs020H.jpg) "Arguing with you always makes me thirsty." -Augustus McRae
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Re: switching from H4831SC to H4831 for better case fill
[Re: TackDriver]
#7219700
07/09/18 07:04 PM
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ChadTRG42
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Running the difference in QuickLoad shows a 3%-4% increase in case capacity at a seating depth of 3.100". But this figure totally depends on your seating depth. A deeper seating depth will increase this slightly.
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Re: switching from H4831SC to H4831 for better case fill
[Re: TackDriver]
#7219713
07/09/18 07:20 PM
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Joined: Jul 2012
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603Country
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Just don’t use them in equal load volumes. The IMR, in my experience, has been faster. These days I use the H4831sc in my 270.
Not my monkeys, not my circus...
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Re: switching from H4831SC to H4831 for better case fill
[Re: TackDriver]
#7219730
07/09/18 07:42 PM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 32,506
kmon11
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junior
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I have only used H4831SC in my 6.5-284 and never thought about it, gun shoots better than I can most days so haven't changed anything.
lf the saying "Liar, Liar your pants on fire" were true
Mainstream news might be fun to watch
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Re: switching from H4831SC to H4831 for better case fill
[Re: TackDriver]
#7219744
07/09/18 08:14 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
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redchevy
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Couple years ago I couldn't find H4831 but they had the SC so I bought it. Same weight of powder in 280 rem with the same everything else resulted in the same impact at 100 yards. I don't have a chrono.
It's hell eatin em live
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Re: switching from H4831SC to H4831 for better case fill
[Re: TackDriver]
#7219781
07/09/18 08:53 PM
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,030
spg
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I have a bunch of H4831 I use mainly to load a .284win, never tried the SC since I have so much H4831. SC is the same powder just cut smaller.
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Re: switching from H4831SC to H4831 for better case fill
[Re: TackDriver]
#7219996
07/10/18 12:09 AM
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603Country
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The SC just stands for ‘short cut’. Same powder.
Not my monkeys, not my circus...
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Re: switching from H4831SC to H4831 for better case fill
[Re: 603Country]
#7220057
07/10/18 01:17 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
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J.G.
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The SC just stands for ‘short cut’. Same powder. Right. He is saying the longer kernals may give him more case fill, with the same charge weight. Meaning the same charge will have the powder column closer to the bullet.
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Re: switching from H4831SC to H4831 for better case fill
[Re: TackDriver]
#7220093
07/10/18 01:47 AM
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603Country
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That makes sense, but the SC version is easier to meter. I have some of both the Hodgdon 4831’s and have used them for decades. I admit that I never once compared the case fill of the two versions. And, I have to wonder what a minor case fill difference would really mean to downrange performance. It wouldn’t matter to a hunter like me, but maybe it matters to a long range precision shooter.
How much does it matter?
Not my monkeys, not my circus...
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Re: switching from H4831SC to H4831 for better case fill
[Re: TackDriver]
#7220117
07/10/18 02:02 AM
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J.G.
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It is a small percentage, but it is there. I've seen 100%, or more, case full work many times. First on two 7 Rem Mags, then .300 Win Mag, and for sure on 7mm-08 A.I. .223 A.I. fire forming, as well as formed. They just were not impressing me until they got full of powder. Then they came to life, and started shooting tight.
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Re: switching from H4831SC to H4831 for better case fill
[Re: J.G.]
#7220132
07/10/18 02:15 AM
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Joined: May 2014
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TackDriver
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The SC just stands for ‘short cut’. Same powder. Right. He is saying the longer kernals may give him more case fill, with the same charge weight. Meaning the same charge will have the powder column closer to the bullet. It's what I was trying to accomplish to get a more uniform powder burn with a better case fill, hence the longer kernels and I know they both are the same powder / burn rate.
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Re: switching from H4831SC to H4831 for better case fill
[Re: TackDriver]
#7220146
07/10/18 02:23 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,173
J.G.
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But, SC has more surface area, kernal to kernal.
Did I just throw a wrench in the gears?
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Re: switching from H4831SC to H4831 for better case fill
[Re: J.G.]
#7220190
07/10/18 02:55 AM
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TackDriver
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Did I just throw a wrench in the gears? Not all Jason, but its worth a try to kill the boredom. 
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Re: switching from H4831SC to H4831 for better case fill
[Re: TackDriver]
#7220201
07/10/18 03:07 AM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 32,506
kmon11
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I have been using H4831SC in my 6.5-284 since it was new. If I try another powder in it that will be H1000.
lf the saying "Liar, Liar your pants on fire" were true
Mainstream news might be fun to watch
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Re: switching from H4831SC to H4831 for better case fill
[Re: J.G.]
#7220295
07/10/18 10:29 AM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,523
RiverRider
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It is a small percentage, but it is there. I've seen 100%, or more, case full work many times. First on two 7 Rem Mags, then .300 Win Mag, and for sure on 7mm-08 A.I. .223 A.I. fire forming, as well as formed. They just were not impressing me until they got full of powder. Then they came to life, and started shooting tight. How would you conclude it had more to do with load density than the fact that you may have been seeing the effects of getting the pressures up to where your chosen powder works the best? I don't think there's any way to really know.
"Arguing with you always makes me thirsty." -Augustus McRae
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Re: switching from H4831SC to H4831 for better case fill
[Re: kmon11]
#7220312
07/10/18 11:08 AM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,219
dee
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I have been using H4831SC in my 6.5-284 since it was new. If I try another powder in it that will be H1000. Reloader 23 and 26 are worth a look too. 23 seems closer to 4831 burn rates while 26 is a little slower. 26 gives awesome velocities in comparison to other similar burn rate powders.
"A vote is like a rifle; it's usefulness depends on the character of the user" Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: switching from H4831SC to H4831 for better case fill
[Re: RiverRider]
#7220315
07/10/18 11:18 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,173
J.G.
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It is a small percentage, but it is there. I've seen 100%, or more, case full work many times. First on two 7 Rem Mags, then .300 Win Mag, and for sure on 7mm-08 A.I. .223 A.I. fire forming, as well as formed. They just were not impressing me until they got full of powder. Then they came to life, and started shooting tight. How would you conclude it had more to do with load density than the fact that you may have been seeing the effects of getting the pressures up to where your chosen powder works the best? I don't think there's any way to really know. I think there is a way to know if your theory is correct. Change powder for the same bullet in the same cartridge. Could make more speed, could make less speed, and could be at the same psi. But, of course, I committed to "the most appropriate powder" for the cartridge, bullet, and barrel length, so I made it work. Never did try another combination. In other words, Chad once asked me my H-Retumbo charge for 7 Rem Mag and 180's, then asked about H-1000. "I don't know, H-Retumbo works, I never tried anything else."
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Re: switching from H4831SC to H4831 for better case fill
[Re: TackDriver]
#7220356
07/10/18 12:28 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,173
J.G.
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Did I just throw a wrench in the gears? Not all Jason, but its worth a try to kill the boredom. Oh you're bored? Come to my range, I'll hand you a list...
800 Yard Steel Range Precision Rifle Instruction Memberships and Classes Available
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Re: switching from H4831SC to H4831 for better case fill
[Re: J.G.]
#7220471
07/10/18 02:24 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,523
RiverRider
THF Trophy Hunter
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It is a small percentage, but it is there. I've seen 100%, or more, case full work many times. First on two 7 Rem Mags, then .300 Win Mag, and for sure on 7mm-08 A.I. .223 A.I. fire forming, as well as formed. They just were not impressing me until they got full of powder. Then they came to life, and started shooting tight. How would you conclude it had more to do with load density than the fact that you may have been seeing the effects of getting the pressures up to where your chosen powder works the best? I don't think there's any way to really know. I think there is a way to know if your theory is correct. Change powder for the same bullet in the same cartridge. Could make more speed, could make less speed, and could be at the same psi. But, of course, I committed to "the most appropriate powder" for the cartridge, bullet, and barrel length, so I made it work. Never did try another combination. In other words, Chad once asked me my H-Retumbo charge for 7 Rem Mag and 180's, then asked about H-1000. "I don't know, H-Retumbo works, I never tried anything else." I don't have a theory, and no decisive opinion on the matter. Just questions! You may be correct, in other words. Bottom line is, go with what works and I'm confident you agree with that.
"Arguing with you always makes me thirsty." -Augustus McRae
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Re: switching from H4831SC to H4831 for better case fill
[Re: TackDriver]
#7220472
07/10/18 02:26 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,173
J.G.
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800 Yard Steel Range Precision Rifle Instruction Memberships and Classes Available
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Re: switching from H4831SC to H4831 for better case fill
[Re: J.G.]
#7221256
07/11/18 02:05 AM
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 1,100
TackDriver
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Did I just throw a wrench in the gears? Not all Jason, but its worth a try to kill the boredom. Oh you're bored? Come to my range, I'll hand you a list... I won't mind shooting some rifles for you. 
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Re: switching from H4831SC to H4831 for better case fill
[Re: TackDriver]
#7221894
07/11/18 08:33 PM
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Joined: Aug 2013
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spg
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Post results after you test 4831vsSC, curious if will make a significant difference.
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Re: switching from H4831SC to H4831 for better case fill
[Re: TackDriver]
#7221973
07/11/18 10:09 PM
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 15,711
603Country
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I’ll be shocked if it make any noticeable difference. But I’ve been wrong before (once or twice...).
Not my monkeys, not my circus...
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Re: switching from H4831SC to H4831 for better case fill
[Re: 603Country]
#7221987
07/11/18 10:32 PM
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,030
spg
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