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New 7mm rifle cartridge decisions #6466916 09/25/16 02:32 AM
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Amarillo.Hunter Offline OP
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Hey all,
Looking to get me a new .284 rifle. Currently own a 257 Weatherby and love it, but am wanting something suitable for elk (hopeful future hunt), but also just want another rifle.

Looking at the 280, 280ai, 7mm Rem Mag, 7STW, 28 Nosler.

I "know" the 280/280ai will do anything I "need" them to do. But, also enjoy the margin of error provided in range estimates when making a quick decision to shoot a critter.

Curious as to what y'all think. Looking for both practicality and effectiveness at "sane" hunting ranges.

Thanks

Last edited by Amarillo.Hunter; 09/25/16 05:44 PM.
Re: New 7mm rifle cartridge decisions [Re: Amarillo.Hunter] #6466931 09/25/16 02:42 AM
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I have a 7mm Ultra and am very happy with it. Hardly practical, but it works for me.


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Re: New 7mm rifle cartridge decisions [Re: Amarillo.Hunter] #6467013 09/25/16 03:43 AM
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If you hand load, STW. If you dont, 7 RM

Re: New 7mm rifle cartridge decisions [Re: Amarillo.Hunter] #6467055 09/25/16 04:52 AM
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This question comes up fairly often.
This was my answer a couple of years ago and is still the best advice I can give.

Originally Posted By: Ritter
Probably the most versatile and easiest to find factory loaded ammunition would be the 7 Magnum. With a 168 grain bullet around 2850-2900 fps you could take almost any game on the continent. Reduced velocity ammunition is even available for those times when you don't really need the energy of the full power load.

The 7 STW is a great caliber but with higher priced amuntition, less availability and slightly higher recoil.

The 7 ultra mag is my favorite of the over bore magnums. It easily handles the heaviest of the 7 mm bullets and can take game at distances that most people find hard to believe. It can be harder to find factory ammunition for than the 7 magnum but easier than the 7 STW. The ultra mag also has quite a bit of recoil for those that aren't used to shooting magnums.

Nosler is even offering their 28 Nosler to compete with the 300 RUM.

A 280 or a 280AI are both great cartridges but really perform better with 140 gr. ,and if really needed, 168 gr. bullets. They are both capable rounds but if you really want something a little more exotic and versatile you would probably be happier with the magnums.

Gunwerks offers factory loads for their 7 LRM. The ammo can get expensive if you shoot often but reloading really brings that expense down.

If you decide that you want to start reloading then your choices really open up. Cartridges like the 7mm Firebird and Sizzler 7 STW are definitely some of the more exotic ones out there.

I have owned rifles chambered in 7 RUM, 280 AI and 7 mag and I recently replaced all of these with the 7 LRM. I really like shooting the Berger 180 gr. hybrid at 3050 fps and only having to use 72 grains of H1000.

It probably comes down to choosing the bullet you want to shoot, how fast you want to push it, how much powder your willing to burn to do it and how difficult it can be to get all the components together.

Re: New 7mm rifle cartridge decisions [Re: Amarillo.Hunter] #6467084 09/25/16 07:08 AM
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SAUM confused2


Originally Posted by unclebubba
Just to make sure that it is done thoroughly, I go both ways.

Re: New 7mm rifle cartridge decisions [Re: Amarillo.Hunter] #6467138 09/25/16 12:57 PM
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For practicality it is hard to beat the 7mm Rem Mag. It is by far my favorite big game cartridge for elk sized critters. If you don't hand load, it will provide the greatest selection of ammo as well.


Originally Posted by onlysmith&wesson
I was wrong...on anything technical.

Originally Posted by Sailor
Fitz............. is right, ya know............
Re: New 7mm rifle cartridge decisions [Re: Amarillo.Hunter] #6467250 09/25/16 02:48 PM
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Do you handload? If not the 7 RM

Are you recoil shy? 280ai

Plan to shoot elk sized critters past 500-600 yds? 7 RM, 28, STW

1) For an elk gun that you could also use all around - 7 RM
2) For an all around gun that you could occasionally use on elk - 280ai
3) For a dedicated elk rig, I'd go 28 Nosler and have it throated for the heavies -- 180 VLD, the new Berger 195 EOL elite hunter, or 175 eldx

I debated this same question and opted for a 280ai. With bullets in 160 gr class, I get close to factory ammo velocities of 7 RM with handloads but with a fraction of the recoil -- I can shoot this gun all day long. The 280 is easy to load for and not finicky about powders/bullets. I'm getting 2950 fps with 168 VLD and maintain 1800 ft lbs energy to 550 yds.


Re: New 7mm rifle cartridge decisions [Re: Amarillo.Hunter] #6467310 09/25/16 03:51 PM
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Redsnake pretty much nailed it.
The 280 or 280AI both are quite capable when hand loads are utilized.


"Anyone taking up handloading necessarily plays with unknown factors and takes chances. But so does anyone who drives a car,goes to a cocktail party,eats in a restaurant,or gets married."

Jack O'Connor 1963
Re: New 7mm rifle cartridge decisions [Re: Amarillo.Hunter] #6467340 09/25/16 04:28 PM
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7mm STW.......


"You may all go to hell and I will go to Texas".
Re: New 7mm rifle cartridge decisions [Re: Amarillo.Hunter] #6467352 09/25/16 04:37 PM
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I don't currently handload but have all the parts to get started. I'm still using up my 257 weatherby $30 a box 100gr spire points. Sounds like any of the rounds will work. Grr, was hoping for a magic elixir.

To answer another posters question - I'm not recoil shy, but if I can get what I want without a whooping, why not go with something lighter (i.e., 208-280ai).

And, Ritter you pretty much covered what my copious amounts of research have turned up as well. Flip a coin or decide if this is a "dedicated" elk gun or a gun that could go elk hunting.

Last edited by Amarillo.Hunter; 09/25/16 05:44 PM.
Re: New 7mm rifle cartridge decisions [Re: Amarillo.Hunter] #6467363 09/25/16 04:51 PM
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7-30 waters is what it need


For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
Re: New 7mm rifle cartridge decisions [Re: Amarillo.Hunter] #6467376 09/25/16 04:59 PM
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7x57, if you start handloading you can neckdown for your roberts and if you want more gusto you can AI the 7x57 and give it a good crank.

It's no ultra mag or STW, but a stout 7x57 is nothing to sneeze at. It'll do anything you could ask for under 300 yards. Federal greybox is only about 2600 fps with 140g bullet, but there's plenty more left in it. They scale it back so that the surplus fellas don't send a bolt through their heads. Keeps the recoil down in day to day situations too, which is always nice when you aren't trying to send a partition through a boulder.

Last edited by 7x57; 09/25/16 05:01 PM.
Re: New 7mm rifle cartridge decisions [Re: Amarillo.Hunter] #6467419 09/25/16 05:55 PM
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284 Win.


Originally Posted by KRoyal
Haha yea I polished that thing for hours.
Re: New 7mm rifle cartridge decisions [Re: ImTheReasonDovesMourn] #6467427 09/25/16 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted By: ImTheReasonDovesMourn
284 Win.


I would love one in a model 88


For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
Re: New 7mm rifle cartridge decisions [Re: txtrophy85] #6467448 09/25/16 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted By: txtrophy85
Originally Posted By: ImTheReasonDovesMourn
284 Win.


I would love one in a model 88


Looked at one of those at Cabela's in Allen this week. Had scope rail and factory sights missing. Pretty good condition though.


lf the saying "Liar, Liar your pants on fire" were true
Mainstream news might be fun to watch
Re: New 7mm rifle cartridge decisions [Re: Amarillo.Hunter] #6467459 09/25/16 06:32 PM
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OP some of the others have summed it up pretty well. In 1999 I bought a 7STW for an elk rifle and it worked well, biggest issue I see with it is availability of good brass or even finding brass to load. Back then it was easy to find but these days much more difficult. In the last year there have been several posts on here looking for STW brass. It is a very good elk round that also worked well for deer, pronghorn and hogs.

With the offerings of today I think I would go with the 28 Nosler for a dedicated elk rifle. For a sometimes elk rifle the 280AI would get the nod.


lf the saying "Liar, Liar your pants on fire" were true
Mainstream news might be fun to watch
Re: New 7mm rifle cartridge decisions [Re: Amarillo.Hunter] #6467473 09/25/16 06:45 PM
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^^ I might have to end up getting both. A 280 ackley for deer/elk and a 28 Nosler throated and twisted to shoot the new heavy projectiles.

Curious, what is the real world difference between the 280 and 280 ackley? Is it 100fps or closer to 200fps?

Also, would a 280 (or 280 ackley) with stout bullets do the trick for Nilgai?

Re: New 7mm rifle cartridge decisions [Re: 7x57] #6467515 09/25/16 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted By: 7x57
7x57, if you start handloading you can neckdown for your roberts and if you want more gusto you can AI the 7x57 and give it a good crank.

It's no ultra mag or STW, but a stout 7x57 is nothing to sneeze at. It'll do anything you could ask for under 300 yards. Federal greybox is only about 2600 fps with 140g bullet, but there's plenty more left in it. They scale it back so that the surplus fellas don't send a bolt through their heads. Keeps the recoil down in day to day situations too, which is always nice when you aren't trying to send a partition through a boulder.


That or it's ballistic twin, 7mm-08 Remington.


Originally Posted By: theserxtremedays
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers
Re: New 7mm rifle cartridge decisions [Re: Amarillo.Hunter] #6467520 09/25/16 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted By: Amarillo.Hunter
^^ I might have to end up getting both. A 280 ackley for deer/elk and a 28 Nosler throated and twisted to shoot the new heavy projectiles.

Curious, what is the real world difference between the 280 and 280 ackley? Is it 100fps or closer to 200fps?

Also, would a 280 (or 280 ackley) with stout bullets do the trick for Nilgai?


Real world 280ai prob gets 125-150 fps more than 280, which buys you 100-150 more yards more in terms of delivering same energy down range when using same projectile. 7 RM gets you another 200-300 yds over the 280ai.

To make the 280ai worth it, handloads really are important. If you don't reload, you can send your gun off and have custom loads developed for it -- for example Chad at Dallasreloads.com will work up a load for YOUR gun. West Tex Ordnance in the panhandle will do it as well I believe. Or you can order some off the shelf handloads over the Internet from chad. Before I started reloading, I got some really good "handloads" from hendershots in GA. They are pricey but shoot good. Fwiw, the optimized handload I worked up will shoot 140 fps faster than the ones I bought from hendershots.

Re: New 7mm rifle cartridge decisions [Re: Amarillo.Hunter] #6467536 09/25/16 07:50 PM
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It seems Craig Boddington wrote a piece using his 7x57 on an Antelope or Deer hunt, shot over the back on one around 250-275, underestimated it's trajectory.

So it is, so many chase speed, energy, and paper stats.

A 7/08 properly loaded, and steered, assuming a nominal barrel length of say 21-23", will reach and kill cleanly most NA Game, and most common distances. Rounds like the 6.5x47 have taken elk just shy of 1,000 yds...

Whatever one uses, they need to know how to shoot it to hit vitals. As flat as any rounds are, after 300-400 yds, one best be using a rangefinder, and using a ranging reticle or turrets to dial dope. Being off 25-50 yds can mean quite a bit. One must know their limits.

Nothing wrong with say a 280, but I would just as handily use a modest 6.5 or 270 for most anything shy of large bears, assuming I have a good bullet at the rounds potential speed, with repeatable accuracy.



Re: New 7mm rifle cartridge decisions [Re: Amarillo.Hunter] #6467860 09/25/16 11:54 PM
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Slightly OT, but there's a stack of Nosler 7mm STW brass at the Allen Cabelas, or there was as of about 4 hours ago. Not cheap, but good brass.


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Re: New 7mm rifle cartridge decisions [Re: Amarillo.Hunter] #6468091 09/26/16 01:42 AM
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I'd go with the 280. - It's like a 7mm-08 but does a better job with the heavier bullets, and has a bit more reach.

Any of the 7mm cartridges will do the work, but I think I would go with the 280.


Kind regards, charlesb


Re: New 7mm rifle cartridge decisions [Re: Amarillo.Hunter] #6468147 09/26/16 02:08 AM
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If you want something in the .280 class but maybe a little different, the 7x64 brenneke is another good round and can be had in some nice guns.

7/08 is nice for the short action and only gives up maybe 50-100 fps tops to the 7x57 when pushed to absolute max. I'd go with that if I wanted easy ammo availability.

Hendershots is some good stuff, if you don't shoot enough to need to reload but want something a little hotter. They also carry some oddball calibers that others don't. I think Reloads of Dallas might have a .280 load as well?

Re: New 7mm rifle cartridge decisions [Re: Amarillo.Hunter] #6468214 09/26/16 02:44 AM
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Yep. Chad has loads for 280/280ai

Re: New 7mm rifle cartridge decisions [Re: Amarillo.Hunter] #6468301 09/26/16 03:56 AM
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If you don't reload the seven millimeter Remington Magnum is the best choice.If you reload 7 mm STW is best for long-range and a 7 Mauser is best for moderate ranges. Hand loading is a must for majority of these cartridges.

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