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Shotguns for home defense
#6223681
03/15/16 02:01 AM
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 7,047
mikei
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Re: Shotguns for home defense
[Re: mikei]
#6224027
03/15/16 01:57 PM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,499
charlesb
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More than a few of the home-breakers wear body armor these days, so:
Aim for the chin.
I have my shotgun loaded with an alternating #4 buckshot, slug mix with a #4 buckshot round going first.
Everyone has their own idea about this. - I prefer #4 buck and slugs, in 12ga..
Eight rounds in the tube, four more in the side-saddle. In all likelihood though, the first round is going to do the job.
If there's a second homebreaker hiding behind something though - a slug will take care of that.
Last edited by charlesb; 03/15/16 01:59 PM.
Kind regards, charlesb
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Re: Shotguns for home defense
[Re: mikei]
#6224112
03/15/16 03:10 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 35,124
Brother in-law
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Hmmm I haven't heard or seen many homebreakers wearing body armour lately
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Re: Shotguns for home defense
[Re: mikei]
#6224129
03/15/16 03:18 PM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 603
Dien
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Obviously you don't live in West Texas.
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Re: Shotguns for home defense
[Re: mikei]
#6224185
03/15/16 04:09 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,048
HicksHunter
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So why are people still advocating a shotgun for home defense, when a carbine is clearly superior?
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Re: Shotguns for home defense
[Re: HicksHunter]
#6224298
03/15/16 06:28 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,171
J.G.
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So why are people still advocating a shotgun for home defense, when a carbine is clearly superior? Carbine has to be aimed, shotgun has to be pointed. Carbine creates a cross section of .223 inches, shotgun creates a cross section of 12 inches. Carbine round goes through lots of walls, shotgun goes through less walls, or no walls. Kids are on the other side of walls, neighbors are on the other sides of walls.
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Re: Shotguns for home defense
[Re: J.G.]
#6224324
03/15/16 06:56 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 423
RafterH
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So why are people still advocating a shotgun for home defense, when a carbine is clearly superior? Carbine has to be aimed, shotgun has to be pointed. Carbine creates a cross section of .223 inches, shotgun creates a cross section of 12 inches. Carbine round goes through lots of walls, shotgun goes through less walls, or no walls. Kids are on the other side of walls, neighbors are on the other sides of walls. Well Said.
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Re: Shotguns for home defense
[Re: HicksHunter]
#6224369
03/15/16 07:37 PM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 988
cyphertext
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So why are people still advocating a shotgun for home defense, when a carbine is clearly superior? Please elaborate on "a carbine is clearly superior"... Growing up hunting squirrel and wing shooting, I guarantee I have put more rounds through a shotgun than I have a carbine. Familiarity is key with any firearm for defensive purposes. Also, while this has changed recently with the low cost AR-15s, a shotgun is less expensive than a carbine. I'll also take 9, .30 caliber pellets vs. one .223 pill for a single trigger pull to stop an intruder. But there are some advantages to an AR as well... low recoil, high mag capacity... Comes down to what you are most comfortable with. It is the Indian, not the arrow.
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Re: Shotguns for home defense
[Re: J.G.]
#6224371
03/15/16 07:40 PM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 988
cyphertext
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So why are people still advocating a shotgun for home defense, when a carbine is clearly superior? Carbine has to be aimed, shotgun has to be pointed. Carbine creates a cross section of .223 inches, shotgun creates a cross section of 12 inches. Carbine round goes through lots of walls, shotgun goes through less walls, or no walls. Kids are on the other side of walls, neighbors are on the other sides of walls. No... not true. A shotgun, at across the house distance, still has to be aimed. At 10 yards, mine does not spread 00 buck out much larger than a softball size pattern. My 00 buck is going to go through walls... more walls than many 5.56 rounds that are designed for defense and use in urban areas.
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Re: Shotguns for home defense
[Re: mikei]
#6224395
03/15/16 08:13 PM
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 327
tehachapi
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There's not a single correct answer for everyone/everyplace in all situations. Listen, read, practice and make your own calls and learn to live with them. I use a carbine and a handgun in my home defense use. My wife is happier with a handgun. We're both pretty satisfied with our choices.
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Re: Shotguns for home defense
[Re: cyphertext]
#6224419
03/15/16 08:43 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,171
J.G.
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So why are people still advocating a shotgun for home defense, when a carbine is clearly superior? Carbine has to be aimed, shotgun has to be pointed. Carbine creates a cross section of .223 inches, shotgun creates a cross section of 12 inches. Carbine round goes through lots of walls, shotgun goes through less walls, or no walls. Kids are on the other side of walls, neighbors are on the other sides of walls. No... not true. A shotgun, at across the house distance, still has to be aimed. At 10 yards, mine does not spread 00 buck out much larger than a softball size pattern. My 00 buck is going to go through walls... more walls than many 5.56 rounds that are designed for defense and use in urban areas. It is true if one has their shotgun loaded with 7 1/2 such as I do. Point and shoot, not near the wall penetration. With a carbine you pick this bullet or that bullet, it's still a bullet. And don't try to tell me 7 1/2 won't work. I've seen what it can do, first hand.
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Re: Shotguns for home defense
[Re: mikei]
#6224434
03/15/16 08:57 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
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After having an intruder at the shop I thought I might have to shoot with my .45, I immediately went and got a HD shotgun.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Shotguns for home defense
[Re: J.G.]
#6224462
03/15/16 09:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,048
HicksHunter
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So why are people still advocating a shotgun for home defense, when a carbine is clearly superior? Carbine has to be aimed, shotgun has to be pointed. Carbine creates a cross section of .223 inches, shotgun creates a cross section of 12 inches. Carbine round goes through lots of walls, shotgun goes through less walls, or no walls. Kids are on the other side of walls, neighbors are on the other sides of walls. No... not true. A shotgun, at across the house distance, still has to be aimed. At 10 yards, mine does not spread 00 buck out much larger than a softball size pattern. My 00 buck is going to go through walls... more walls than many 5.56 rounds that are designed for defense and use in urban areas. It is true if one has their shotgun loaded with 7 1/2 such as I do. Point and shoot, not near the wall penetration. With a carbine you pick this bullet or that bullet, it's still a bullet. And don't try to tell me 7 1/2 won't work. I've seen what it can do, first hand. Sure, but it regularly underpenetrates. Why would you pick something that has a lesser change of stopping an attacker? And if you're shooting down a hallway, expect even worse results.
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Re: Shotguns for home defense
[Re: mikei]
#6224475
03/15/16 09:32 PM
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 659
Nitro27
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I don't think there is anything more deadly that a shotgun at in house distances.00 buck would be my choice. But if you have little ones running around there is really no good way to secure it and still have it available if there was a need for it. same goes for a carbine.
Last edited by Nitro27; 03/15/16 09:35 PM.
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Re: Shotguns for home defense
[Re: J.G.]
#6224478
03/15/16 09:36 PM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 988
cyphertext
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So why are people still advocating a shotgun for home defense, when a carbine is clearly superior? Carbine has to be aimed, shotgun has to be pointed. Carbine creates a cross section of .223 inches, shotgun creates a cross section of 12 inches. Carbine round goes through lots of walls, shotgun goes through less walls, or no walls. Kids are on the other side of walls, neighbors are on the other sides of walls. No... not true. A shotgun, at across the house distance, still has to be aimed. At 10 yards, mine does not spread 00 buck out much larger than a softball size pattern. My 00 buck is going to go through walls... more walls than many 5.56 rounds that are designed for defense and use in urban areas. It is true if one has their shotgun loaded with 7 1/2 such as I do. Point and shoot, not near the wall penetration. With a carbine you pick this bullet or that bullet, it's still a bullet. And don't try to tell me 7 1/2 won't work. I've seen what it can do, first hand. Ever shot a dove with that 7 1/2 and when you went over to pick it up, you find that it isn't dead? If it isn't guaranteed to stop a dove, I'm not using it for home defense.
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Re: Shotguns for home defense
[Re: HicksHunter]
#6224484
03/15/16 09:40 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,179
Tactical Cowboy
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Anything worth shooting someone with is going to go through walls. I'll take a semi auto handgun any day over a shotgun. More ammo, easier to use, and much, much faster to reload. I can load 8 rounds in a shotgun in about 6 seconds. I can empty a 20 round mag, reload, empty another 20 rounder and reload again in the same amount of time with a pistol. Shotguns have their place, but they really aren't any easier to use than a pistol.
The secret to a long life is to try not to shorten it.
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Re: Shotguns for home defense
[Re: Tactical Cowboy]
#6224513
03/15/16 09:57 PM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 988
cyphertext
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Anything worth shooting someone with is going to go through walls. I'll take a semi auto handgun any day over a shotgun. More ammo, easier to use, and much, much faster to reload. I can load 8 rounds in a shotgun in about 6 seconds. I can empty a 20 round mag, reload, empty another 20 rounder and reload again in the same amount of time with a pistol. Shotguns have their place, but they really aren't any easier to use than a pistol.
I've got to disagree with this too. A firearm that is shouldered is going to be easier to get hits with than one that is not. More points of contact with the body and is much more stable. Not to mention, with two shells of 00 buck, I have more projectiles than most pistols will hold.
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Re: Shotguns for home defense
[Re: cyphertext]
#6224516
03/15/16 10:02 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,171
J.G.
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I'll state again, I've seen what 7 1/2 can do to a grown man. I've got a small house, so if I had to use it, it's going to be close enough to work.
Those dove were hit while flying 60 miles an hour, and got hit with one BB. Not the same as ten feet away on a grown man that can't move that fast, and gets almost every BB.
But this is Texas, do as you please. Hopefully none of us will ever have to employ what ever we have in the house.
800 Yard Steel Range Precision Rifle Instruction Memberships and Classes Available
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Re: Shotguns for home defense
[Re: cyphertext]
#6224526
03/15/16 10:07 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,179
Tactical Cowboy
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Anything worth shooting someone with is going to go through walls. I'll take a semi auto handgun any day over a shotgun. More ammo, easier to use, and much, much faster to reload. I can load 8 rounds in a shotgun in about 6 seconds. I can empty a 20 round mag, reload, empty another 20 rounder and reload again in the same amount of time with a pistol. Shotguns have their place, but they really aren't any easier to use than a pistol.
I've got to disagree with this too. A firearm that is shouldered is going to be easier to get hits with than one that is not. More points of contact with the body and is much more stable. Not to mention, with two shells of 00 buck, I have more projectiles than most pistols will hold. And you have just about as good a chance of missing with those two rounds as a pistol or rifle. Each of those pellets carries less energy than a .32acp. And after you've missed twice, or short stroked your shotgun, you're down to 6 rounds in the gun, if you have a long barrel or tube. And follow-up shots will be MUCH slower with your pump gun. But who needs a follow up with a shotgun? Everybody knows you can't miss.
The secret to a long life is to try not to shorten it.
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Re: Shotguns for home defense
[Re: mikei]
#6224563
03/15/16 10:37 PM
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 7,047
mikei
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As someone said earlier in this thread, aim (or point) for the chin. 7 1/2 or 6 shot shotgun shells discharged at a person's chin from 7 yards or so, will most assuredly "stop the threat." I was discussing this issue with an LEO at the San Antonio gun show a few months ago. I carry a Judge with #6 shot as my vehicle gun, and a 12 gauge DP-12 as my home defense weapon, and wanted to know if he felt they were adequate for the purpose I intend for them. He cited a couple of instances where perps had been "face-shot" with bird shot at 7-10 yards inside businesses and homes. He said that the damage was "gruesome." Both perps were blinded for life; lost most of their teeth; their tongues were unusable; and with one of them, his left ear was removed.
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Re: Shotguns for home defense
[Re: Tactical Cowboy]
#6224564
03/15/16 10:39 PM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 988
cyphertext
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Anything worth shooting someone with is going to go through walls. I'll take a semi auto handgun any day over a shotgun. More ammo, easier to use, and much, much faster to reload. I can load 8 rounds in a shotgun in about 6 seconds. I can empty a 20 round mag, reload, empty another 20 rounder and reload again in the same amount of time with a pistol. Shotguns have their place, but they really aren't any easier to use than a pistol.
I've got to disagree with this too. A firearm that is shouldered is going to be easier to get hits with than one that is not. More points of contact with the body and is much more stable. Not to mention, with two shells of 00 buck, I have more projectiles than most pistols will hold. And you have just about as good a chance of missing with those two rounds as a pistol or rifle. Each of those pellets carries less energy than a .32acp. And after you've missed twice, or short stroked your shotgun, you're down to 6 rounds in the gun, if you have a long barrel or tube. And follow-up shots will be MUCH slower with your pump gun. But who needs a follow up with a shotgun? Everybody knows you can't miss. No, you don't have "just about as good a chance of missing"... most people can shoot a shouldered weapon and get hits on a target easier than they can put hits on targets with a pistol. This is a proven fact. Again, a shouldered weapon has more points of contact with the body, so it is more stable. Also has a longer sight radius. Notice above I said that a shotgun has to be aimed at the distances we are talking. I can take a group of Boy Scouts out and get them on target much easier with a rifle or shotgun than the pistol. Those pellets are moving fast enough to penetrate and hit vitals... that's really all that matters. Much bigger wound than a single projectile. I don't believe that a shotgun is "MUCH slower" on a follow up shot either. It may be a little slower depending on the guy behind it. Also, you are aware that they make semi auto shotguns these days too, right? Again, the shotgun is not perfect... a handgun has some pros in it's favor. It is definitely easier to move about the house with the handgun, if you have to do that. Easier to keep a handgun on you at all times as well. But I am a firm believer in using the handgun to get to a long gun.
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Re: Shotguns for home defense
[Re: mikei]
#6224585
03/15/16 10:53 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
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So a pistol is better than a shotgun in the ease of use/hit what you are shooting at category now?
Hmmmm....
Last edited by Nogalus Prairie; 03/15/16 10:54 PM.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Shotguns for home defense
[Re: cyphertext]
#6224588
03/15/16 10:56 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,179
Tactical Cowboy
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Anything worth shooting someone with is going to go through walls. I'll take a semi auto handgun any day over a shotgun. More ammo, easier to use, and much, much faster to reload. I can load 8 rounds in a shotgun in about 6 seconds. I can empty a 20 round mag, reload, empty another 20 rounder and reload again in the same amount of time with a pistol. Shotguns have their place, but they really aren't any easier to use than a pistol.
I've got to disagree with this too. A firearm that is shouldered is going to be easier to get hits with than one that is not. More points of contact with the body and is much more stable. Not to mention, with two shells of 00 buck, I have more projectiles than most pistols will hold. And you have just about as good a chance of missing with those two rounds as a pistol or rifle. Each of those pellets carries less energy than a .32acp. And after you've missed twice, or short stroked your shotgun, you're down to 6 rounds in the gun, if you have a long barrel or tube. And follow-up shots will be MUCH slower with your pump gun. But who needs a follow up with a shotgun? Everybody knows you can't miss. No, you don't have "just about as good a chance of missing"... most people can shoot a shouldered weapon and get hits on a target easier than they can put hits on targets with a pistol. This is a proven fact. Again, a shouldered weapon has more points of contact with the body, so it is more stable. Also has a longer sight radius. Notice above I said that a shotgun has to be aimed at the distances we are talking. I can take a group of Boy Scouts out and get them on target much easier with a rifle or shotgun than the pistol. Those pellets are moving fast enough to penetrate and hit vitals... that's really all that matters. Much bigger wound than a single projectile. I don't believe that a shotgun is "MUCH slower" on a follow up shot either. It may be a little slower depending on the guy behind it. Also, you are aware that they make semi auto shotguns these days too, right? Again, the shotgun is not perfect... a handgun has some pros in it's favor. It is definitely easier to move about the house with the handgun, if you have to do that. Easier to keep a handgun on you at all times as well. But I am a firm believer in using the handgun to get to a long gun. I don't even own a pump shotgun, and I'll about guarantee I can shoot and load a shotgun faster than most on this forum. I'm the first to say time is better spent learning a different gun. I also know shotguns tend to be the most likely to fail. Go to a 3 gun match, and see which gun guys cuss the most. It'll be the shotgun. Sure, a semi auto shotgun vs a semi auto pistol is not going to be much slower. But the pump most people are going to recommend will, and you actively have to remember to work the action. Ever tried working a pump one handed? The shotgun is not the be-all, end-all people make it out to be.
The secret to a long life is to try not to shorten it.
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Re: Shotguns for home defense
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#6224589
03/15/16 10:56 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 6,287
scalebuster
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So a pistol is better than a shotgun in the ease of use/hit what you are shooting at category now?
Hmmmm.... Only if your a Tactical Cowboy.
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Re: Shotguns for home defense
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#6224591
03/15/16 10:57 PM
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,809
Cleric
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So a pistol is better than a shotgun in the ease of use/hit what you are shooting at category now?
Hmmmm.... Debates on how you measure it. Handguns are easier around corners because they are smaller Shotguns are easier to aim because more points of contact It's all in how you measure it
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