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Short, Heavy 308
#6068569
12/06/15 12:50 AM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,499
charlesb
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Lately I've been fascinated with an idea, a rifle with a short (18") bull barrel.
Nothing 'tactical", I'm thinking of a sporting rifle, hopefully even good-looking.
In my imagination, it would handle well, be good in the brush, but also be accurate enough for longer shots, out to 300 yards at the most with a .308 and 165 grain spitzers.
A compact 2-7 scope slammed down to almost touch the barrel, a sporting stock with the barrel channel opened up...
I know that there are a few short bull-barreled 308's on the market, and hope to hear from owners, get their impressions on how they behave, and also any building advice.
My idea is to buy a regular .308 bull-barrel rifle and cut the barrel down. There may be a better way to go.
Any information on this while I am still in the planning stage would be greatly appreciated.
Kind regards, charlesb
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Re: Short, Heavy 308
[Re: charlesb]
#6068593
12/06/15 01:05 AM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 2,740
Murphscout
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I have a Rem 700 AAC SD 308 with 16.5 barrel. Shoots lights out with 165 or 175
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Re: Short, Heavy 308
[Re: charlesb]
#6068606
12/06/15 01:09 AM
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Joined: May 2015
Posts: 4,136
Dalee7892
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I have a Mossberg MVP in 308, heavy barrel fluted, adjustable trigger, box mag (5, 10, 20 round), bolt action. Looks like the Ruger Gunsite but not the expensive. I like it. Haven't tried to stretch it out pass 200. It is already 18".
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Re: Short, Heavy 308
[Re: charlesb]
#6068632
12/06/15 01:25 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,046
J.G.
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So bash on the guys that know their chit about ballistics, say a short barrel rifle lacks "performance", pass judgement on those of us that know how to make any barrel length work, pass judgement on those of us that know how to hit things target or hide far away, then ask for input on a rifle build? And you're a rifle builder... F-ing really?
800 Yard Steel Range Precision Rifle Instruction Memberships and Classes Available
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Re: Short, Heavy 308
[Re: charlesb]
#6068639
12/06/15 01:32 AM
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 4,005
JRJ6
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I bought the Savage 10FCP-SR. It has a 20" threaded heavy barrel. It has the accustock and trigger. It's an awesome rifle right out of the box.
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Re: Short, Heavy 308
[Re: charlesb]
#6068674
12/06/15 01:49 AM
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 5,154
scottfromdallas
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JR,
How does it feed with the plastic mag? I've been thinking of getting one. I have a Precision carbine in 223 and a lightweight stainless in 308. Both are incredibly accurate with almost any load right out of the box.
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Re: Short, Heavy 308
[Re: J.G.]
#6068690
12/06/15 01:56 AM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 15,523
TexFlip
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So bash on the guys that know their chit about ballistics, say a short barrel rifle lacks "performance", pass judgement on those of us that know how to make any barrel length work, pass judgement on those of us that know how to hit things target or hide far away, then ask for input on a rifle build? And you're a rifle builder... F-ing really? Beat me to it.
Just to make sure that it is done thoroughly, I go both ways.
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Re: Short, Heavy 308
[Re: scottfromdallas]
#6068706
12/06/15 02:04 AM
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 4,005
JRJ6
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JR,
How does it feed with the plastic mag? I've been thinking of getting one. I have a Precision carbine in 223 and a lightweight stainless in 308. Both are incredibly accurate with almost any load right out of the box. I don't use the 10 round that came with it. I purchased the 5 round mags from midwayusa. I have not had any issues
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Re: Short, Heavy 308
[Re: J.G.]
#6068711
12/06/15 02:09 AM
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,991
68A
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So bash on the guys that know their chit about ballistics, say a short barrel rifle lacks "performance", pass judgement on those of us that know how to make any barrel length work, pass judgement on those of us that know how to hit things target or hide far away, then ask for input on a rifle build? And you're a rifle builder... F-ing really? Was waiting on it.
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Re: Short, Heavy 308
[Re: charlesb]
#6068713
12/06/15 02:11 AM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,613
MacDaddy21
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Yet his website only lists a few basic, general services. Rifle builder...I doubt it. Can't even crown a .30 cal barrel in his "shop".
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Re: Short, Heavy 308
[Re: J.G.]
#6068749
12/06/15 02:26 AM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,499
charlesb
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So bash on the guys that know their chit about ballistics, say a short barrel rifle lacks "performance", pass judgement on those of us that know how to make any barrel length work, pass judgement on those of us that know how to hit things target or hide far away, then ask for input on a rifle build? And you're a rifle builder... F-ing really? Has his little girly panties in a twist. Sober up, JG... Take the ignorant attitude somewhere else.
Last edited by charlesb; 12/06/15 02:33 AM.
Kind regards, charlesb
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Re: Short, Heavy 308
[Re: charlesb]
#6068751
12/06/15 02:27 AM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,856
30378
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Love my 20" SS Remington 308 dubbed as a LTR. Believe it or not in 2009 Remmy made a special run of 100 and here is one of them. Short bbl rifles make perfect stand guns.
NRA Benefactor Life Member - Free men should not be subjected to permits, paperwork and taxation in order to carry a firearm.
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Re: Short, Heavy 308
[Re: Dalee7892]
#6068755
12/06/15 02:28 AM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,499
charlesb
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I have a Mossberg MVP in 308, heavy barrel fluted, adjustable trigger, box mag (5, 10, 20 round), bolt action. Looks like the Ruger Gunsite but not the expensive. I like it. Haven't tried to stretch it out pass 200. It is already 18". I'm thinking about handling qualities, have you been happy with the way it feels at the shoulder? One theory I've developed is that the short, heavy barrel should be good for coming up fast, and then holding steady. - Does it feel that way to you?
Last edited by charlesb; 12/06/15 02:33 AM.
Kind regards, charlesb
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Re: Short, Heavy 308
[Re: charlesb]
#6068770
12/06/15 02:35 AM
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 15,572
603Country
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Honestly, you'd have gotten a much more pleasant and informative response if you hadn't chosen to be a complete jerk on that LR chat.
May I suggest a higher fiber diet?
Not my monkeys, not my circus...
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Re: Short, Heavy 308
[Re: charlesb]
#6068775
12/06/15 02:39 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,046
J.G.
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I don't claim to be a rifle builder, bash competent shooters, then ask questions on the THF I should already know the answer to, being a rifle builder. Who's ignorant?
800 Yard Steel Range Precision Rifle Instruction Memberships and Classes Available
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Re: Short, Heavy 308
[Re: charlesb]
#6068909
12/06/15 04:09 AM
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,053
bo3
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You better go to a 338 federal or another larger bore. They are more efficient in a short barrel according to you. 300 yards with that short of a barrel is getting unsportsmanlike. Quote from you on another thread. cartridges tend to the neighborhood of 100-150 fps per inch. This chart claims that eight. Are you sure you can't deal with all that velocity loss? (Velocity loss is not correct. Just quoting him)
Last edited by bo323; 12/06/15 04:32 AM.
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Re: Short, Heavy 308
[Re: charlesb]
#6068943
12/06/15 04:41 AM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,499
charlesb
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Waiting for a civil, intelligent reply.
Just ignore the trolls. They'll go away if we do not feed them.
Kind regards, charlesb
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Re: Short, Heavy 308
[Re: charlesb]
#6068957
12/06/15 04:52 AM
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,053
bo3
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Waiting for a civil, intelligent reply.
Just ignore the trolls. They'll go away if we do not feed them.
Ok. So how effective will it be if you lose 300fps from a 20 in barrel or 900fps from a 24 in barrel or 12fps from a 26 in barrel? Again using your numbers.
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Re: Short, Heavy 308
[Re: charlesb]
#6069018
12/06/15 06:02 AM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,183
Mike Honcho
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If you want semi, after some initial frustration, my fnar with a bar stock is shooting consistently sub .75" 5 shot groups at 100yds. Its got a 20" barrel and im now very pleased. Havent done any LR grouping because it was very persnickity at the onset. Im guessing chrome lined barrel had something to do with it.
“Two things that define an individual what you do when you have everything, and what you do when you have nothing."
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Re: Short, Heavy 308
[Re: charlesb]
#6069111
12/06/15 01:13 PM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,499
charlesb
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The FNAR's are nice, one of the very best but I am looking to use a bolt gun for this.
I already know what hardware I intend to start with, either a Howa barreled action, or a Weatherby Vanguard with the heavy barrel if I can find a used one that is priced right. The main difference between the two is that the Vanguard metal will be finished differently from the Howa, and the Vanguard will come with a plastic stock that I will proceed to remove and replace.
I am uncertain about the scope, I know that I want a 2-7 compact variable but have not decided between Leupold and Ziess.
Here I am asking for comments about the handling qualities of short bull barrels in the field, more than anything, and the kind of stock designs that seems to work out best with them. - I may step away from the thumb-hole stocks that I generally prefer, this time around.
One issue is that I will either have to do a good deal of whittling to lighten up a Varmint stock - or open up the barrel channel on a Sporter stock. I much prefer Varmint stocks for shooting at the range of course, but the same features that make a Varmint stock great for firing prone and from the bench would make one too heavy and ponderous for lugging around in the field. - I'm a fair chase hunter, so camping out in a blind in front of a feeder is not on the itinerary here. I have camped out in blinds in the past, and it's a good way to get the venison, but I find it more enjoyable these days to be on the hoof, moving around seeing the country in the sometimes forlorn hope of outwitting the game in its own element.
My theory, still untested is that a short bull barrel should be great for running shots and impromptu shots that often have to be taken without the benefit of a support or stick. As we all know though, reality does not always cooperate with theory. I'd like to hear experiences from hunters who have stalked either game or varmints with short bull barreled rifles.
How does it work out in the field?
Last edited by charlesb; 12/06/15 01:25 PM.
Kind regards, charlesb
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Re: Short, Heavy 308
[Re: charlesb]
#6069119
12/06/15 01:29 PM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,432
TFF Caribou
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Man, some people just dig themselves deeper and deeper. Running shots, impromptu shots, no rests... Seems like that would increase the likely hood of a wounded animal to a figure greater than "as low as humanly possible"
The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference. -George Washington
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Re: Short, Heavy 308
[Re: charlesb]
#6069176
12/06/15 02:45 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 231
Reich
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 231 |
Check out the Remington SPS, barrel is 20" so it may be longer than what your looking for. Its short accurate and a nail driver, it makes a great blind gun.
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Re: Short, Heavy 308
[Re: TFF Caribou]
#6069197
12/06/15 03:04 PM
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,053
bo3
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Man, some people just dig themselves deeper and deeper. Running shots, impromptu shots, no rests... Seems like that would increase the likely hood of a wounded animal to a figure greater than "as low as humanly possible" Waiting for a civil, intelligent reply. Just ignore the trolls. They'll go away if we do not feed them. I just wanted to go ahead and answer that for him with his standard response for anyone questioning the master gunsmith.
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Re: Short, Heavy 308
[Re: charlesb]
#6069203
12/06/15 03:08 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,825
poisonivie
THF Trophy Hunter
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so a running shot is more "sportsmanlike" than a LR shot?
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Re: Short, Heavy 308
[Re: poisonivie]
#6069241
12/06/15 03:43 PM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,499
charlesb
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so a running shot is more "sportsmanlike" than a LR shot? Yes, by a wide margin.
Kind regards, charlesb
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