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long range rifles #5748242 05/17/15 10:42 PM
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I'm in the process getting a new rifle and have decided on the 300 RUM I'm just not sure what rifle to buy. Just wondering what a Remington sendero stock with a Leopold Mark 4 25 power scope would be accurate out to stock.. if I don't go that route I'm debating on ordering a rifle through Dead Down Range.. what's y'all opinions!?

Re: long range rifles [Re: Sq2 hunter] #5748429 05/18/15 12:52 AM
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My opinion is to not get a RUM. A .300 Win Mag will do everything you need it too, with way less fuss of finding brass and the general pain loading for an over bore like the RUM.

Will the Mark 4 be a Mil/ Mil, MOA/ MOA, or a Mil reticle/ MOA turret?

The correct answer is to get a Mil reticle and Mil turret. And don't get hung up on the Mark 4, it aint all that. 20X and above is plenty to shoot a mile and beyond.

Will a mass produced rifle be accurate enough to shoot precision? These days, the answer is most likely yes. The key is to plan to load your own ammo, tuned perfectly to the barrel. As long as the stock is well married to the action, and the barrel always remains free floated from the stock, then you have most of the battle won. Bedding the action is not necessary, but it sure can't hurt, especially on a heavy recoiling rifle. Mass produced rifles have button rifled barrels, they are good shooters, but they almost always will not shoot as well as a cut rifled barrel as you would get on a custom rifle.

How much experience do you have shooting precision? I ask, because starting out on a .300 Win Mag is like taking a 16 year old and teaching him to drive on a funny car instead of a Ford Mustang. How far is long range to you, and do you want something to have the foot pounds to make a clean kill at 500 yards and beyond? To be proficient that far requires a ton of practice behind the rifle in all types of weather and wind. I shoot two to four days a week, EVERY WEEK, and a 500 yard shot on a deer or elk is something I take very seriously and might not make the shot if the situation made me a bit uncomfortable.


Moving to the Rifles/ Shotguns/ Handguns section in 3...2...1...


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Re: long range rifles [Re: Sq2 hunter] #5748435 05/18/15 12:57 AM
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Call and talk to this guy.
http://www.riflesinc.com/index.html


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Re: long range rifles [Re: Sq2 hunter] #5748441 05/18/15 01:00 AM
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My opinion is that you can spend as much as you want to on an out of the box remington 700, and it is still just the luck of the draw whether it will be a "shooter" or not. My suggestion would be to buy a new Tikka t3 in 308 and put your choice of stocks on it and a Harris 6-9 bipod. Shoot it all you can for a year, and then get it rebarreled to 6.5 Creedmore or whatever caliber you prefer. As for a scope, just get a SWAF 5-20 HD once and for all and be done with it.

Last edited by hermano W; 05/18/15 01:11 AM.
Re: long range rifles [Re: Sq2 hunter] #5748490 05/18/15 01:59 AM
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Originally Posted By: Sq2 hunter
I'm in the process getting a new rifle and have decided on the 300 RUM I'm just not sure what rifle to buy. Just wondering what a Remington sendero stock with a Leopold Mark 4 25 power scope would be accurate out to stock.. if I don't go that route I'm debating on ordering a rifle through Dead Down Range.. what's y'all opinions!?


1st- Why the 300 RUM?


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Re: long range rifles [Re: Sq2 hunter] #5748526 05/18/15 02:12 AM
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yep, its gone by the wayside, good advice from above post.


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Re: long range rifles [Re: Sq2 hunter] #5748629 05/18/15 03:17 AM
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One thing I would like to throw in, is he says he has already decided on a 300 RUM so my question to clients is always what are you wanting to do with it or what are you wanting to accomplish. Are we killing elk at 1000 are we punching paper are we carrying it in Tajikistan after sheep. Then you can really make some decisions on what and how to build the rifle.
D

Re: long range rifles [Re: Sq2 hunter] #5748665 05/18/15 03:53 AM
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Curious as to why the scope needs to be mil? I and a shooting buddy have had no problems to aquire and make hits out to distance using moa scopes/spotters.

Last edited by jeff1383; 05/18/15 03:54 AM.
Re: long range rifles [Re: Sq2 hunter] #5748675 05/18/15 04:09 AM
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I have heard MOA is just ..you know so last year wink

popcorn


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Re: long range rifles [Re: jeff1383] #5748726 05/18/15 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted By: jeff1383
Curious as to why the scope needs to be mil? I and a shooting buddy have had no problems to aquire and make hits out to distance using moa scopes/spotters.


Here we go duel

Re: long range rifles [Re: jeff1383] #5748750 05/18/15 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted By: jeff1383
Curious as to why the scope needs to be mil? I and a shooting buddy have had no problems to aquire and make hits out to distance using moa scopes/spotters.


The short answer, Mil is easier to use.

MOA has been working for a long time, but now it needs to go away.


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Re: long range rifles [Re: Sq2 hunter] #5748803 05/18/15 12:30 PM
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If it ain't broke don't fix it!! : )

Re: long range rifles [Re: Sq2 hunter] #5748827 05/18/15 12:46 PM
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Both will work just fine. Moa is still popular in br and f class and likely to be for a long while due to the finer adjustments.

Op unless the mk4 has the new designed turrets I would not go that route.


"A vote is like a rifle; it's usefulness depends on the character of the user" Theodore Roosevelt
Re: long range rifles [Re: jeff1383] #5748830 05/18/15 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted By: jeff1383
If it ain't broke don't fix it!! : )
Do you still go to work on a bicycle, or have we all agreed that a car is superior?

Same with mil/moa. Both do the same job and are capable of the same end result - one just makes it easier to do.

Re: long range rifles [Re: jeff1383] #5748838 05/18/15 12:55 PM
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.308 Win 178 A-max, 2700 fps, DA 1000'-3000' 5 mph 3 o'clock or 9 o'clock


200 yards .2 Mil
300 yards .3
400 yards .4
500 yards .5
600 yards .6
700 yards .7
800 yards .9

OR

200 yards 3/4 MOA
300 yards 1
400 yards 1 1/2
500 yards 2
600 yards 2 1/2
700 yards 3
800 yards 3 1/2

Now the wind has increased to 7-8 mph, quick add 50% to that wind hold! Now it gusted to 10-12 mph, double the original wind hold. Next day the wind is 1-3 mph, now you cut it all in half.

Which is easier to mutiply or divide, and which is easier to memorize?

MOA had it's place in slow fire bench rest, it would have an advantage over a Mil scope in that arena. But change the situation to dynamic, high speed shooting (hunting) and Mils have a clear advantage. I can use both MOA or Mil but I do not like MOA at all since I don't shoot benchrest. I've had more than one student come out with a MOA scope and at the end of the day tell me they're going home and putting them up for sale to get Mil/ Mil.


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Re: long range rifles [Re: patriot07] #5748907 05/18/15 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted By: patriot07
Originally Posted By: jeff1383
If it ain't broke don't fix it!! : )
Do you still go to work on a bicycle, or have we all agreed that a car is superior?

Same with mil/moa. Both do the same job and are capable of the same end result - one just makes it easier to do.


This analogy makes zero sense...are you referring to moa as a bicycle and mil as a car? Please explain to me from your personal experience when you've missed a shot or made a bad wind call because your scope was moa and not mil. What might be "hard" for you may come easier to others.

Last edited by jeff1383; 05/18/15 02:07 PM.
Re: long range rifles [Re: Sq2 hunter] #5748927 05/18/15 02:09 PM
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My whole point was that's an objective opinion and more of a preference. I say to the OP get whatever scope and shoot whatever cartridge you prefer.

Re: long range rifles [Re: jeff1383] #5748932 05/18/15 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted By: jeff1383
Originally Posted By: patriot07
Originally Posted By: jeff1383
If it ain't broke don't fix it!! : )
Do you still go to work on a bicycle, or have we all agreed that a car is superior?

Same with mil/moa. Both do the same job and are capable of the same end result - one just makes it easier to do.


This analogy makes zero sense...are you referring to moa as a bicycle and mil as a car? Please explain to me from your personal experience when you've missed a shot or made a bad wind call because your scope was moa and not mil. What might be "hard" for you may come easier to others.


This debate is decades old. MOA has fallen way out of favor, and 90% of precision, non-benchrest, shooters use Mil.

Let's move on.


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Re: long range rifles [Re: Sq2 hunter] #5748941 05/18/15 02:19 PM
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And I get that. A friend of mine told me his main reason for switching is based on competitive shooting. Not because he was at a disadvantage based on skill but purely because that's what the majority field did. Spotters and ro's call misses by mils which puts a moa shooter at a disadvantage. I would likely switch myself if that were my case. So fireman I see where you're coming from.

Last edited by jeff1383; 05/18/15 02:24 PM.
Re: long range rifles [Re: J.G.] #5748954 05/18/15 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
.308 Win 178 A-max, 2700 fps, DA 1000'-3000' 5 mph 3 o'clock or 9 o'clock


200 yards .2 Mil
300 yards .3
400 yards .4
500 yards .5
600 yards .6
700 yards .7
800 yards .9

OR

200 yards 3/4 MOA
300 yards 1
400 yards 1 1/2
500 yards 2
600 yards 2 1/2
700 yards 3
800 yards 3 1/2

Now the wind has increased to 7-8 mph, quick add 50% to that wind hold! Now it gusted to 10-12 mph, double the original wind hold. Next day the wind is 1-3 mph, now you cut it all in half.

Which is easier to mutiply or divide, and which is easier to memorize?

MOA had it's place in slow fire bench rest, it would have an advantage over a Mil scope in that arena. But change the situation to dynamic, high speed shooting (hunting) and Mils have a clear advantage. I can use both MOA or Mil but I do not like MOA at all since I don't shoot benchrest. I've had more than one student come out with a MOA scope and at the end of the day tell me they're going home and putting them up for sale to get Mil/ Mil.


It's just because you have to somplify things for firemen, that's all hammer


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Re: long range rifles [Re: jeff1383] #5749005 05/18/15 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted By: jeff1383
Originally Posted By: patriot07
Originally Posted By: jeff1383
If it ain't broke don't fix it!! : )
Do you still go to work on a bicycle, or have we all agreed that a car is superior?

Same with mil/moa. Both do the same job and are capable of the same end result - one just makes it easier to do.


This analogy makes zero sense...are you referring to moa as a bicycle and mil as a car? Please explain to me from your personal experience when you've missed a shot or made a bad wind call because your scope was moa and not mil. What might be "hard" for you may come easier to others.
I think fireman's post already explained that.

Re: long range rifles [Re: patriot07] #5749054 05/18/15 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted By: patriot07
Originally Posted By: jeff1383
Originally Posted By: patriot07
Originally Posted By: jeff1383
If it ain't broke don't fix it!! : )
Do you still go to work on a bicycle, or have we all agreed that a car is superior?

Same with mil/moa. Both do the same job and are capable of the same end result - one just makes it easier to do.


This analogy makes zero sense...are you referring to moa as a bicycle and mil as a car? Please explain to me from your personal experience when you've missed a shot or made a bad wind call because your scope was moa and not mil. What might be "hard" for you may come easier to others.
I think fireman's post already explained that.

I'll take that as a never had that experience

Re: long range rifles [Re: jeff1383] #5749166 05/18/15 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted By: jeff1383
I'll take that as a never had that experience
I was smart enough to do the research and buy a car the first time.

JMHO - it's worth what you paid for it. Chad and fireman both have far more experience than I do and probably explained it better.

Last edited by patriot07; 05/18/15 05:38 PM.
Re: long range rifles [Re: Sq2 hunter] #5749179 05/18/15 04:53 PM
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Honestly, MOA or mils, it doesn't matter. But if you were starting out to learn, there's no question mils is a easier method to learn and understand faster. I started with MOA, and progressed to mils. I have both and run both, but anything new gets mil/mil.


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Re: long range rifles [Re: patriot07] #5749203 05/18/15 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted By: patriot07
Originally Posted By: jeff1383
I'll take that as a never had that experience
I was smart enough to do the research and buy a car the first time.

Nobody cares about your 1988 Hyundai elantra.

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