When Andrew Sansom was named executive director of the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department in 1990, he boldly took on the challenge of uniting conservationists and hunters through a shared interest in the outdoors. “I don’t think there had ever been an attempt to get hunting advocates and birders and backpackers and hikers and rock climbers to work together,” says Sansom from his ranch outside of Johnson City. “But when you get people together, they find out that the others aren’t so bad.” Sansom left that post in 2001. Today he directs the Meadows Center for Water and the Environment at Texas State University, but he remains one of the state’s most incisive voices when it comes to the thorniest issues affecting the future of hunting.
https://www.texasmonthly.com/travel/hunting-become-rich-mans-game/

....this oughta run about 10 pages and IMO
YES...

the days of hunting on a home or relatives place disappeared for most every city dwelling hunter I've known in the '60's or early '70's...
Ron

As pappy once said:

Nope it has not. Some people find any reason not to do something. Others find a way to do anything. It's the same mentality you'll find in Dems blame the "rich man".

Not really,if you want to go hunting bad enough it's not that hard to do. However I will say the size/quality of animal you want to kill...buck,ram,goat,bear,whatever,is definitely proportionate to the amount of money you're gonna need to spend. Sure a few big deer are killed on low-cost public hunts in Texas but those make up a tiny,tiny percentage of all deer hunting trips. It's kinda sad to see the enormous "industry" that has built up around deer hunting in Texas. But I suppose it was inevitable,human nature being what it is.

as pappy once said:

Thfs best victim.

Yes trophy hunting is a rich man game. I see no issue with that either.

In order to get a better grasp on what "Hunting" is to be defined by...IMO you need to clarify the kind of hunting is being examined for cost.

I started my hunting career chasing walkin pothole watefowl and small game on public ground and lake access waaay before the $48 Permit was required, 'cause it was the least expensive thing to get me into the field for a day. Didn't own a deer rifle until after I was married at 23 and received one as kinda a late wedding present from my GrandPop, who took me on my 1st Deer Hunt the following Fall at something he called a "Deer Lease" in Mason, from Dallas since my entire family were city dweller's.

Deer lease prices were kinda affordable in the '60's if you planned all year for the Hunt, back when Minimum Wage was $1.25 an hour. Today Deer Lease prices are like buying a 2 year old used Mercedes and out of the reach of $7.25 an hour Minimum Wage earners who comprise the largest segment of the overall population, and still is even at the proposed $15 an hour. Just Sayin' Texas is a Private Property State and always will be, and the Lege is not interested in providing TPW with much of anything for the bottom 60+% of the population. Texas has a population of ?? 18- 23 Million people and TPW's budgets allow for how many Lottery Permits for a Big Game Hunt, and we still solicit Non Resident Hunters by allowing them the same Pricing and Unlimited Access to the Lottery Hunts as Residents. I'm hoping to Hunt on a relative's 17 acre Deer Lease this year, since I've not been able to score a Lottery Permit in some of the regular Categories in 15 or 20 years of Applications. Makes the Rocky Mtn states who operate on a true Preference Point System and a restricted access for Non Residents look very good for their Residents....

If Hunting had been my end all outdoor activity as Freshwater Fishing was for most of my life, I'd of moved to one of the Rocky Mountain States 50 years ago...where most all the Non Resident Texans hunt who can afford it.
JMHO & YMMV
Ron

Not everyone can afford premium hunts, but just about everyone can afford to hunt. A person just has to re-calibrate their expectations according to their budget. Some of my most memorable hunting trips were chasing squirrel and rabbit on public land that anyone can hunt. Back in the "good ole days" when I started hunting the piney woods, you were lucky to even see a deer, much less go after a big one. It was pretty much small game or nothing.

It seems like most hunters I talk to now want to hunt big bucks and are shocked about how much it costs. To hunt big deer has always been expensive with very few exceptions.

How many dollars does it take to be expensive vs. inexpensive?

I used to think so until recently.
But after checking out the Texas Trophy Hunters Extravaganza and seeing many guides & ranches advertise for "hunts starting as low as $4,000-$5,000" and seeing everything they do, I came to this conclusion:

- You're either paying lots of money for someone to do most of the hunting for you, or you're paying little money to do all the hunting yourself.

Since August, I think I spent a total of $250. Half of which are license, tags, & APH permit. The other half was for Draw Hunt permit I won for Bastrop SP in January. Which I think aint bad at all.


The only thing that bothers me is the irony of Hunting in Texas:
Texas being a very hunter friendly state, yet most lands are private and many are out of the reach of your average middle working class hunter.


Michael Waddell did make a stern but honest statement to hunting property owners earlier this year:
- You're pricing yourselves out of the industry.

Hunting is no more or no less expensive than any other hobby. Golf, boating, eating out, vacationing or any thing else a person likes to do can cost you as little or as much as you want it to. You can spend as litle as you want or as much as you want on a lease. You can really jack up the bill by feeding protein year around. You can hunt in a heated weatherproof custom elevated blind or sit against a tree. You can buy yourself a new 4WD truck and a polaris ranger or drive to the lease in the family car and then walk to your blind. The cost of just about anything is the amount you want to put into it. Making it expensive or not is stickly up to you.

I think of it as expensive but sometimes it's worth it to keep from going crazy! All I have invested this year (poor investment but has dividends in long run) was dove lease for my son and I. Poor investment due to fact it's spending money, great dividends because time spent with son and memories are priceless! Dove lease for 2/$550, gas in trucks est. $250 through season, shotgun shells est. $250, drinks snacks $100, not going into adding cost of guns cause have had them and most folks would loose their minds me using Winchester Pigeon Grade and my son caring a Winchester Mdl 21 2 barrel set to hunt dove! We would have to kill 550 dove to scratch the surface of expense alone and 1 dollar a bird is high cost. So imagine the trophy hunts and taxidermist bill or long distance travel, prep time and extra stuff the tv shows tell you you need. Yes it can be very expensive! But when I'm on my deathbed and my son visits me we will relive the dove hunts one last time! Have many conversations with my father doing the same thing often!

I dont think it has. We live in a great state with public opportunities for all who are willing. I feel like its all about priorities. Hunting definitely isnt a passive activity as it may have once been. I feel like maybe in the past opportunity by invites may have come easier. Now if you aren't actively pursuing even the chance to hunt. .. it could pass you by. Just my thoughts.

Yes and No...but then again it has been for at least the last 35 years. When I was a kid, we were not rich. My dad and I had multiple properties that friends owned that we were allowed to hunt. In my twenties and thirties, I had some friends that let me hunt their properties, I had a few leases that were cheap, but the hunting wasn't that great, and I hunted some public lands. Now I hunt a piece of property owned by a family friend in OK, and I hunt my Father-in-Law's property in Texas. The best hunting for me has always been on properties owned by "rich men", or at least properties that I could not afford.
All the above relates to Deer hunting specifically. Many times, I have gone public for very cheap to hunt squirrel, rabbit, dove, and duck. So, Yes, good quality deer hunting costs a lot of $...but then, it has been that way for a very, very long time.

Oklahoma hunting license are not very cheap either.

No, they are not...but when the property owner is your Dad's best friend from HS, the lease fees total zero, it is worth it.

I do think at first thought it is expensive to hunt deer in Texas. The better the lease the higher the cost then you bring in the facts mentioned by don k and it can be very expensive.

The latest issue of Texas Monthly has a piece on this very subject. Have not read it yet should be interesting.

As with any question about what hunting is or what it has become...hunting is merely what you make it. It is as hard or as easy as you want it to be, it is as cheap or expensive as you want it to be, a trophy is as big or as small as you want it to be, etc. Hunting isn’t anything until you make it something. That’s one thing I love about it...I can make it whatever I want it to be

I can’t take anyone seriously who says hunting is too expensive but spent hundreds on the newest cell phone.

I think hunting in Texas can cost as much as you want it to. I spent a large chunk of my life wanting to get into hunting, but didn't a mentor and was under the impression that it was too expensive. 7 or 8 years ago i found out about land that the state leased for public use dove hunting, so for about a hundred bux I dove hunted a dozen or so times that year. I only got one dove my in all those trips, but i was finally hunting. I did that for a couple of years and then found out about some of the WMA's that were accessible for deer, hog, and small game hunting. So again, for about a hundred bux I began squirrel hunting, scouting for deer, and hog hunting. Not having a mentor i was only successful bagging some squirrels, but i still got to spend a bunch of days, outside in solitude, hunting. This year will be my 2nd year on a lease in west Texas, which costs less up front than some of my gun purchases. I am also applying for just about every gun draw hunt Texas has to offer, as well as hunts in Wyoming and Montana now. For me, hunting is more about my enjoyment of being outdoors in solitude than shooting a big buck, and that can be had, again, for about 100 dollars.

Oh we've started to leave the "hundreds" range... I think that last iPhone that came out cost a cool $1,000

I find that everyone tends to think everything cost to much and that they don't earn what they "deserve". We kind of live in an age where everyone feels entitled to "luxury items" and they actually believe if they aren't making six figures they're underpaid.

If you live in the great state of Texas, yes it is a rich man’s sport. Especially if you live in the cities and have to travel. Look at how much you city folks spend on gas alone for a weekend trip. If you sleep in your truck and eat pimento cheese sandwiches the price is still high. I’m fortunate and have never had to pay to deer hunt and never will.
Quail hunting is another ballgame. I can’t believe what I pay for a lease 45 minutes away from the house. Luckily I can bring two guests and split it 3 ways with guys that go two or three times a year, so it’s not near as bad as what people pay for deer leases in the area. Something I used to do as a kid for the price of gas and dog food every day is now expensive. If I still lived in Odessa it would still only be the price of gas and dog food. You can kid yourselves all you want but hunting these days is a rich man’s sport.

If you have the time, knowledge, know the right people, you can guide a few trips and pay for your season. However for the average man living in a metro area hunting is a rich man’s game.

If you think leasing is expensive, try being a landowner. Taxes are outrageous. Machinery is expensive. Feed is expensive. Nothing worthwhile in lfe comes cheap. I wouldn't have it any other way though. Luckily we bought back in '99. Land in our area was around $500 an acre. Now it's around $3500-$4000 an acre. This may sound like a windfall, but not when you would like to keep it in the family for perpetuity. It is what it is. Nothing like hunting your own place.

I guess I may be confused as to how people are defining "rich".

Keep in mind that I have NOT hunted public lands in Texas in over 15 years (but I will be this year). I enjoy hunting in places like Alaska where it's more you vs. the wild and the chances of coming across other hunters in the bush are as close to 0 as it gets (well, at least where I hunt).

Now on to the topic: I live in Houston, the largest metro area in Texas and while I will wholeheartedly agree that public hunting options are limited in Texas, there are still plenty of public lands to hunt. Certainly, you will need to travel at least an hour away (but it takes me 2 hours to drive down town in morning traffic, so driving an hour AWAY from Houston is a light drive). An hour away is Sam Houston - that is almost 163,000 acres. If you start looking at a two hour drive range, you got many more options: The Alabama Creek WMA portion of Davy Crockett is almost 15,000 acres (and there are another dozen or so areas within a 2 hour range).

Is public hunting limited? ABOSLUTELY. But it does exist and it's cheap to hunt.

So let's see what cost we are looking at for a new hunter:

Hunters Ed Course: Online NRA class qualifies and is FREE - but you do have to pay the $5 state fee after you finish it.
Hunting License (Resident): $25
Annual Public Hunting Permit (For Public Lands): $48

So you are all set to hunt public lands in Texas for a total of: $78

Now in the LARGEST metro area in TX, getting up to the largest public hunting area (Sam Houston) is about 40 miles (80 round trip). To keep it simple, we'll call gas $3/gallon and say you are driving a gas hog up to Sam Houston that only gets 15 miles/gallon. Roundtrip hunting trip will burn about 5 1/2 gallons of gas, for a whopping total of: $16.50

So a brand new hunter who has to get his training/licensing in place will pay a total of $94.5 to go hunt 163,000 acres of Sam Houston. And after that first hunt, they'll be paying a total of $16.50 every day they hunt it afterwards.

I don't really know anyone who calls a man with $100 a rich man.

Sure, if you want to go hunting for a day and have the best odds of coming home with a trophy buck - you can lease someone's private land and that can be expensive. But preferring the expensive options over the cheap options, doesn't make hunting a rich man's game.

Spot on,good post.And the exact same thing applies to folks living in the DFW,Austin and San Antonio areas.

Reading these posts, it pretty relates to what I said earlier:
You can either pay a little money to do the hunting yourself, or pay lots of money to have someone do most of the hunting for you.


I can go pay an owner $400 to shoot a hog, that were scouted with his/her game cameras, that were baited with his/her feeder, while I'm sitting in his/her blind.

Or I can just go to Somerville or Sam Houston and shoot one myself for free.

That's what it comes down to.


Personally, I've never baited, never used game cameras, tree stands or hunting blinds (and don't care to have people do it for me). I'm sure quite a few people are going to want to bash me on this one but I've always said if you are sitting in a tree stand or hunting blind - you aren't hunting, you're waiting LOL No fun in that to me. I like to get out there and stalk my prey. Scout the signs and track what you want to kill - that's hunting to me. Earn it.

he gist of the Texas Monthly article was that due to the high cost of hunting, in time there will be fewer hunters.

8

twas a Blessing when the OSBWMA opened ta public hunting.
$200.00 lease could fit inta budget, twas a family outing, camping, & chance ta do some en & chillen.
interesting thread.

It all depends. My lease is middle of the road in costs, I have an old rebuilt modest camper, a decent 4 wheeler (paid off now), and last year I bought a blind (built ones previous to that) and 2 home made feeders. Everything I acquired I bought/built over time.

I've had guys come join my lease and immediately go buy a nice camper, ranger, nice blind; etc Literally drop 20,000-30,000 year one. Or I have had guys who want to get into the hobby that think that need to buy all that stuff year one so they get the impression it is a rich man's hobby.

in 83 only deer rifle had twas me ol friend old Kentucky, from d 70's, ya, i gots names for some of me guns. The ol cap & ball me & me pard from our fast draw days usdta deer hunt with. Back then only had 3 days for buck only in Mn. Shotgun or muzzleloader, thinken before in-lines, very few muzzleloaders back then.
83 had place ta hunt, Smith Co was buck only, couldn't get doe tag, not enough deer.
First lease, it had 24-7-365 hog hunts, 1,100acres, rufly 10-12hunters at $200.00 year round lease, it was afordable, compaired ta other leases, only reason got on lease. Low-income, $200.00 can buy lots of meat. Climb tree for a stand. Started with jungle hammack ta sleep in.
Wife, wanted ta come ta lease, old trailer was their, slept few times whin rained. Big ol rats, she found small shasta camper, we did the tent camping at parks, so camper was ivestment for family outing.
Found old trails, oaks, droppings, rubs scraps, creek crossings, ol school hunting vs excecative hunts. Cossy blind, food plots, sit & wait. Did build box stand, food plots, corn feeders on leases.
Learned real quick, the gotta pay ta play tricks. Avoided them. So



My posts usualy been for lower-income workers, hog hunts WMA do it your-self hunts.

People wanna spend big bucks for few #'s of meat, wasn't how i was raised, tip me hat ta me wife, she reminds me of d song: Second hand Rose, she didnt spend money foolishly, & tried ta pass it on,

ya, i think it has.just my every one has a right ta thar own opinion, like the ol saying goes, opinions are like, ____, i like me chilly with beens.

Pappy, tell me bout the good ol day's. When hunten twas the price of Gov. food stamps.

How many can remember them days.

Easy answer here.My dad and uncles always had plenty of money to hunt west texas leases when I was growing up.I believe I am in a better paying job level than they were then and I really can't afford 2 - 10 thousand dollars a year to hunt the same area.Simple math to me.But I have learned to enjpy hunting the forrest and lower cost east texas leases.

Trophy hunting always has been a rich mans game and always will be.

Hunting isn’t a rich man’s sport. The statement that it is, is simply a projection/excuse for being lazy and spoiled.

If you can’t find a scarifice to afford you an opportunity to get to hunt, you just don’t want to hunt bad enough, which is fine, just don’t project about it not being as high as other things on your propriety list.

Well said and I'm sure more than just me agree!

Here here

say's the Rich man who sits in his box stand, waiting...
Not spending thousands of $$$ for a few #'s of meat for en & chillen dosnt make a person lasy & spoiled, No spending thousands of $$$ for a lease tis NOT a priority. Did the execative hunts, sitting in box stand, waiting over baited areas, twas a Blessing when a WMA opened up just down the road. Seen the Rich mans games played... Spend time & money only ta get out bid... Hunting twas family outings, twas how raised in Minnesota & when leased, kept it ta under a buck a day.

The part that really makes it expensive is mounting everything you shoot!! Taxidermy costs have gone through the roof.

Hunting in todays dollars are actually not much different than hunting in 1980 dollars. I looked at an old price list we used in 1980. Axis Bucks were $750. In todays dollars that is $2231 Just about the same.

me grammer not the best Don... 80's minimum wage vs price of hamburger... 2018 minimum wage vs price of steak...

Actually you have that backwards. 1980's ribeye vs 2018 hamburger.

Well put, way back in September.




(Kristen Wiig slays me.)

in 1980 was making ruffly $2.50 an hour couldnt afford a steak, 2018 think minimum wage roughly $7.45 or liittle more, price of steak roughly $3.00...

actualy seen the games being played on leases b4 got on HF.... Just look at your so called hog problem... Twas a Blessing wfhen a WMA opened up just down the road.... " As pappy say's: its not an execative hunt were ya bait & wait... "

Colt you just won't give up. Hunting in real dollars is not any more expensive than in quite a few years. People piss off more money on eating out, going to movies, smoking or any other of the hundreds of vices that humans have than hunting. If you enjoy, it hunt. If you want to piss and moan stay at home.

Some hunters can afford ta piss off more money than others, don't look down upon those who can"t... i do enjoy hunting, been out several times this year, been en & chillen ... Merry Christmas Don ...

low-income hunter just trying ta put on d & in d freezer , Thar b three types of hunters... i pay for my foodstamps ...

I don't look down one anyone. I have found that those that maybe don't have think it is someone else fault that they don't have or can't have. I am now retired and have all and everything I need. I am not bragging. I worked my rear off from age 19 until age 65. If I needed something and could not afford it I worked either part time or found another job that paid more. Later when I started doing better I put all the extra into savings or bought and sold to make a little extra. And like I said before in real dollars hunting is not any more expensive than it was in years past.

no clue of what ya said in your last post, Don. got D- in grammer.... U just don't get it do ya,... still playing the richmans games

colt 45 You are a lot smarter than you want folks to think. Don't act like you aren't.

Hit the nail on the head donk.

so its my fault huh ? low-income worker, who used hunten & fishen ta put on the WOW.... All about the big Buck$....

Well if you are making minimum wage at 60 then yes, it could be hard... Burger joints pay twice that. What % of your income should pay for hunting? Mine is $138 a month year round hunting. Just buy some corn. You wouldn't have to buy a single piece of meat for a family if you wanted to. You are paying for horns on a package hunt that they put money into.

I had a doe at 7 yards on public land. I chose to buy a hanging stand and cheap camera so if you add those in I paid about 275. Bow was purchased in past years and was 350. Practice target was 50. I give the stand and bow 5 years so that amortizes to 125 /yr. (Not counting lost opportunity cost). Figure arrows, target and super combo license and I'm at about 380/year not counting mileage.

Now, If we're talking private lease, we would need to figure the inflation on per acre lease from say 1990 to now. Then also figure the return per acre on a lease from that same time period.

We would also need to determine the public area per hunter from that same time period to now. I would bet the per acre public hunting opportunity has increased.

Medical costs rise every year, but year on year testing and prescription costs actually fall. It's the new innovation and changing protocols that drive the higher costs. You could argue the same about fishing. I can buy a 60k bass boat or a 16 ft john boat and a 15 hp motor. That new john boat actually costs less in today's dollars than it did in 1990.

ya'll seen that thar thtead in If money was no object...
Public Hunting even the middle class hunters can afford it...
cool discusion...

I think it depends on where you live. Texas big game hunting seems to be costly, but at least Texas has been loyal to it's citizens by defended it's lands from the BLM and their thugs.

If you make it a priority, a working stiff can still afford to buy his own place to hunt in Texas. And you can do what you want with it.

There is also Corps of Engineers lakes, at least Lake Lavon, for waterfowl near the metroplex. Realistically, you're not gonna have to deal with a lotta public hunters. Most people are not willing to waller in the mud for a mile or two to have their own spot i bet. I am unsure if there are other Corps of Engineers lakes in Texas, but where there are you can usually hunt right?

Public hunting opportunities, however, not so great. When I was a little boy in Mesquite, Texas, I mostly just hunted rabbits and small game with a crosman pellet gun wherever I wanted. Probably city land, the police didn't care that much is for sure.

The last few times I hunted in Texas, I took the youngest boy rabbit hunting near Fort Hood. Only rabbit and dove hunting were permitted on the property. Not that it matters, I probably saw at least 20 hunters that day. Guys out there trying to decoy doves and etc.

Since when did you need decoys to get some doves?

This is a great thread with excellent perspectives. Mine is in line with both sides. Depending on the type of hunt you want, cost is relative whereas value for the pure pleasure of hunting, enjoying God's gifts and getting close to someone special- f not nature in general is beyond any cost.
What price can be placed on a great memory, life lesson or experience?

Now that I've waxed philosophical, the pragmatic side always seems to influence our decisions- and it should predominantly, anyway.

I Love to Hunt- Big Game in the backcountry away from the crowd. Since the advent of the internet and hunting shows where so called experts(of which there are very few) show how easy and affordable it is to DIY. LOL....ok. Big Game Hunting is expensive no matter how you slice it whether it is DIY or someone pays a guide for an experience.

The price of fuel, food , camping gear, proper hunting clothes, gear & ammunition - and time in research- if you're smart in your approach is considerable. That;s Fact, not hyperbole'
Add the price of a guide depending on the level of experience, and type of game one wishes to hunt, and the hunt becomes even more expensive.

Some bird hunting of which I am not a fan is still relatively cheap. Duck hunting which seems to have become an elitest sport is an expense all it's own.

Hunting squirrels , varmints, shooting crows or grackles is relatively inexpensive if you have access to land or pay the cost of a Type ll license for public land or paper land here in Texas. Yet none of those type of hunts interest me. Coon hunting is another low cost way to hunt - if you have access to land. Being a city dweller and living in Texas where 90% of land is private can be a limiting factor. Fortunately my family has property where I can hunt deer, occasionally hogs, dove, ducks and varmints when they're on the property. Others do not possess that luxury though.

in my line of thinking for the type of hunting I prefer, hunting has definitely become more expensive. The cost and quality of experience bears heavily on what personal preference is, and where one lives. All of these things are mitigating factors in the expense of a "hunt".

agh, grasshopper...
The more money ya have the more freedom ya have...

each has good views.
tis think from experience, younger generation first starting out in life...

I moved back to Texas in February. I really didn't see how you could do much past dove hunting without pouring money into it. It seems normal for guys to spend as much on a deer lease as one might spend on car payments over the course of a year, or more. Much more.

After I graduated CDL school and started working again, I realized just how close we are to the national forests. Is it that big a deal to drive 3-4 hours from the city? If it is then get you a job driving a truck so you can live where you want, and move to East Texas! People make that drive to places they are already paying big money for.

But close vicinity to the Metro Mess? Corps of engineer lakes and a few good WMA's. Richland creek and Gus Engeling for starters. I have seen more roadkill hogs in Navarro County than everywhere else I drive combined, so those two WMA's would be great. And richland creek is a springtime hunt!

Out fishing for crappie and sandbass this spring, I found some real nice places to hunt pigs in land controlled by the Army Corps of Engineers. At a no permit lake, Lake Bardwell. No specifics, sorry. You gotta put in your time off the beaten path!

National forests Crocket, Angelina, the Big Thicket. Pretty good drive but probably worth it. First come first serve to get your permit to hunt those forests FOR FREE.

I am only just starting to learn about the drawn hunts. They don't all cost money to apply for. If I am lucky I will get to hunt pigs at Nannie Stringfellow WMA with my girls for free. Last I checked it was dove and rabbit only so it could be a real good hunt.

Tons of opportunities to hunt for the price of licensing, rifle, and bullet. Even in Texas. Also there is Fort Hood. I never hunted Fort Hood, but here is a picture of me with my deer. Public land in North Carolina. Fort Bragg to be specific. I got a orange sweatshirt from walmart, orange hat on special $2, a $180 rifle that I already had anyway, and used ammo less than $15 a box. Permits and hunting licenses to hunt and fish N.C. and fort bragg altogether were less than $100. That was N.C. but still. That and a few trips to the range to build my confidence.

I think the guy that does his homework can do pretty good for the price of the clothes on your back, a single shot, hunting license, and box of shells. Even in Texas with all it's private lands.