Hey guys, I’m considering taking a handgun training class to increase my proficiency. It’s something I’ve wanted to do for a while but have never made time to do it. I’ve been shooting most of my life so not really looking for a beginners class...looking for something more like some of the “tactical” training type classes with different shooting situations. I don’t really like using the word tactical but that seems like the best description....anyway, has anybody taken one in DFW area or have any recommendations? Looking for those with experience, knowledge, or opinions.

Thanks.

Buzzsaw shoot targets 7 yards away with a rest and a 1911 I think he is the subject matter expert

Damn straight!!! Frisco Gun club has all kinds of training

went to tiger valley in Waco for his 3 day class and enjoyed it throughly

Shooting most of your life means nothing when it comes to a pistol. If you can group well without a rest at 20-25 yards then you don't need to start with the first level of training. If not, you do. Jeffbird probably knows a good resource around the metro area. I would recommend him but he lives around Austin. When I say group well, that's shooting a pistol that has recoil, not a .22.

You have to give more details on grouping well. I don’t think I shoot a pistol very well. I shoot our pistol qualifications every year and routinely shoot 98.0 or higher. But the grouping is about a 10 inch group. We shooter 25, 15, 7, and 3 yards. Some people on here can put 10 rounds in a 2 inch group at 25 yards.

Get with jeffbird anyway. Take a trip to Austin. Consider it a mini vacation. Choke a few liberals. They have some nice lakes too.

In your area I would look at

Group 6 Training - Mike Duff

Crossfire Range - Kevin

Texas Firearm Training Academy - Mike Lane

If you got a place to shoot and our schedules worked I could help. Just make sure your choosing allows you to move. Group 6 would be my first choice locally. All the above have a very experienced back ground.

I think it would be good for a lot of us to take a course or even refresh.

Chris Costa will be at Red River West in Gainesville on 10/5-7/18 for "Handgun Elements Theory 1".

Some of the top training locations, not only on Texas but in the US would be Rifles Only in Kingsville, Tiger Valley in Garland/Waco. And I do think Jeff (jeffbird on here) in Austin is starting some training. I have taken classes with both RO and TV and I know both places well.

RO is certainly worth the trip. They have all kinds of shooting scenarios, like movers, shoot house, run and gun, etc. They have many different set ups. Plus, they taught me a better grip to help my pistol shooting, which improved my follow up shots and consistency. I highly recommend Jacob and Lisa and crew. They specialize in training a lot of our soldiers and other personnel.

TJ with Tiger Valley has training locations in Dallas and at his main range location outside of Waco. He does some training at some local ranges, and has some bigger one's at his Waco facility.

tac Pro, but the guys an azz

Thank you.

Looks like one of these or maybe Tiger Valley since Waco is fairly close to me. Appreciate the referrals.

The wife and I just got back from the LTC class and range session with Jeffbird. It was great. Even better was how he got my wife so interested in shooting. The wife is soooo hardheaded, but Jeff had her considering other pistols by the time we got to shooting. And we really burned a bunch of ammo. Good times...

He considerably improved the wife’s shooting and did his best to get this old dog to learn a few new tricks.

And Jeff offers tactical instruction, and I’m pretty sure we’ll go back for that in the Fall.

And, the wife enjoyed eating out in Austin.

Not only no, but heck no! I won't recommend Bill to anyone anymore. He has a great facility and was one of the top places to train back in the day. (Tac Pro was the first place I trained at, and have good memories there). I've been there multiple times, had customers take classes, and I've shot some of his shooting matches there. All of them the quality had gone down hill really bad. Bill showed up over 1.5 hours late to our last shooting match to get started oin day 2. There were many unhappy shooters. One customer told me about his training class there, and it was not good. So, I couldn't recommend them any longer.

Another one I didn't recommend was Texas Pistol & Rifle in Whitewright, TX. It was a joke. He promoted his rifle range as a 500 or 600 yard place, but every distance was shorter than that. The 500 yard berm was like 440 or 460, and he said it was close enough and wouldn't matter. Oh, ok, really! I guess being a precision shooter is "close enough" if I'm shooting at wrong distances. He and I got into when it came to my barrel cleaning for my range qualifying. He wanted to use bore paste and scrub the snot out of my barrel. After a long discussion, and against his recommendation, I didn't do it. And when I went to qualify on his range, you had to hit a full size IPSC plate (17-3/4" W x 29-1/2 H) at each distance, which is a BIG target. He didn't think I would qualify, so on his 500 yard target (really 440 or 460 yards, whatever it was), I called head shots, and put 2 rounds in the head instead of on the body, just to do it. I paid to be a member there, and I didn't last long at all on that place. As a member you can only shoot there when he isn't training. Well, that means I didn't get to shoot there hardly at all or when I needed to. We went round and round, and it was a disaster.

Dang that sucks to know. That is the closest place to me besides Sanger that holds USPSA matches. Was happy to see one so close, but will probably stear clear.

If they hold a match, go shoot there. For training, I just wouldn't recommend them. The dad and I were like oil and vinegar. His methods of shooting and barrel cleaning were not mine, and it started us off on a bad foot, and never got better. For matches, go for it. I just didn't like the joint.

Doc,

While not in DFW, the short answer to your question in my opinion from first hand experience, and well worth the time, effort, and expense to travel is Tom Givens, who visits Texas two or three times a year to run the best quality classes for >>>>>CIVILIAN CONCEALED CARRY.<<<<<< He has an appropriate level course coming up in a couple of months. You will be challenged and walk away with improved skills that are relevant and important for civilian concealed carry. There is no flash and dazzle, just hard work on things that matter and not spending time on things that are less likely for a civilian carrying concealed. The class is not "fun" per se, it is real work on developing real skills. The goal is to teach a life or death skill, not entertainment for adults.

Here is a link to a class he is teaching in October at a facility between Brenham and Austin.

https://www.eventbrite.com/e/dynamic-marksmanship-course-two-day-tickets-39452156462

Here is a link to his general website:

http://rangemaster.com/

Here are some general thoughts for you and others, specific to instruction and training for civilian concealed carry. These comments are not directed to law enforcement, military, or even competitive shooting, but directed at learning skills for an average person to carry concealed and have a modest, but competent level of proficiency if the time comes they really need it. These comments come first hand experience, good and bad, since this issue became very personally important to me in 2005. Why, what and how I teach is the result the voids I experienced in the skills I needed and sought, so that area is my own personal focus, more about that at the tail end.

A professional basic defensive pistol class needs to be the first step, if one has not been taken previously. This course is a necessary first step on a path of developing skills. There are some basic skills that form a solid foundation that have to be learned before proceeding on to the next steps. There is a logical progression of how skills are taught, or should be taught, before worrying about "tactical scenarios." Learning how to draw and present a pistol in a timely manner from concealed carry needs to be learned before worrying about clearing rooms in the dark.

My perspectives and views changed dramatically last spring after going through an instructor course with Tom Givens. As soon as he mentioned some of the things I will discuss below, they seemed blatantly obvious and explained why I walked away dissatisfied as often than not with some of the "high speed" instructors.

In addition to the names already mentioned in the other posts, others that are trained and certified as instructors by Tom Givens in his methods in the DFW area are Brad Stanley, Wayne Dobbs, Julie Thomas, and Guy Schnitzler. I have not trained with them personally, so can only say they have been trained and certified by Tom in his ways, thinking, and methods. If anyone has personal first hand experience with them, please PM me with feedback.

For context, there are over 15,000 pistol instructors certified by NRA in comparison to 851 certified by Tom Givens over more than a twenty year period. Out of my instructor class of eighteen with Tom Givens, he failed four in the course. People came from all over the country to attend, and one even came from Thailand. Even though they paid money to travel and attend, some substantial amounts, what mattered only was the quality of the person and their performance. There were no participation trophies handed out. His instructor course is physically and mentally demanding. This group was mostly people already teaching in some capacity for at least a few years. This training and certification are meaningful, and worth considering, and one of the few standards nationally in a mostly unregulated industry.

Bill Davison at Tac Pro has provided excellent training to me and I would recommend him based on that prior experience, but it has been years since I took a class with him, so defer to Chad's more recent experiences. Chad's comments make me sad to hear, and hopefully things will turn around. Bill has tremendous experience in executive protection services, which are highly relevant to this training area.

Some general thoughts on training >>>>>>FOR A CIVILIAN FOR CONCEALED CARRY.<<<<<

Why do I keep putting that in caps and with arrows?

A civilian carrying concealed is not a law enforcement officer, Delta Force, SEAL, Force Recon, SWAT, or anything else vaguely similar. How we are most likely to have an encounter occur is very different than how they will have an encounter occur. How we carry is very different than how they carry.

A background as a LEO does not necessarily translate to being a good instructor for a civilian learning how to carry concealed. Some LEO's are fantastic, among the very best. Some are more comfortable grabbing a rattlesnake by the tail than a working with a pistol teaching a civilian to carry concealed. That reality was an eye opener for me in some classes early on. But again, some are phenomenal, the skills depend on the person. Being a LEO shooting instructor is helpful, but by no means definitive, as the differences quality between departments can be significant. Two LEO's who were current firearms instructors for their (smallish) departments failed the shooting proficiency test in my DPS LTC instructor class, and it is not a particularly challenging test. The DPS instructors were providing remedial training as we all left the facility, so I do not know if they ultimately passed or not. Again, that is better than not having that background, but do not assume that experience equals high level quality teaching - it probably does, but not necessarily. In LEO experience as a very general rule, unquestionably with exceptions, caveats, and asterisks, FBI carry methods tend to be closer to a civilian because they have to carry concealed, while dressing professionally. That method of carrying on duty is relevant experience for civilian concealed carry.

I was certified as a NRA instructor several years ago. Candidly, it means very little in my opinion. If that is all an instructor has for qualifications, keep on looking. It is slightly better than having nothing, but it is not a rigorous standard.

Many to most shooting instructors have no training in how to teach. They have learned how to shoot, which is important obviously, but how to teach is equally important. Some of the super shooters and "high speed" operators have impressive skills, but can they really translate that into teaching an average person skills they need for carrying concealed in an office or a professional environment wearing the clothes we wear everyday? Some can, some cannot, and may have never had to do so themselves. That takes nothing away from them, they have skills relevant to teaching LEO's or military personnel, which is a different skill set. I do not pretend to be qualified to teach LEO's the skills needed for their jobs, and tell them that up front and send them elsewhere. Conversely, there are some folks who send their wives or girlfriends to me so they are comfortable and not being barked at like a military or LEO instructor. One is not better than the other, just different with different experience and different goals in teaching.

A training class for a civilian seeking to learn concealed carry skills should focus on skills for a civilian learning concealed carry skills. DUH! If an instructor shows up wearing a drop leg holster, five mags on his belt, Under Armor t-shirt two sizes too small, combat boots and barking "tactical" or "high speed" more than once per every other minute, he may not be the right guy for you in your office as a dentist.

Most of us are not walking down the street with an OWB holster and mag carriers on a belt. Why pay someone to teach a skill that is not the one that is most likely to be used daily? Why pay someone who is not doing what I need to do?

Of the instructors I have gone to as a student, only one has shown up to teach carrying concealed - Tom Givens.

Only one has demonstrated by their own actions the skills and drills to be practiced by drawing from concealed carry - Tom Givens.

He draws from concealment and shoots in front of students. Many instructors are afraid to shoot in front of students for fear of looking foolish or missing. Misses can, do, and will happen, but an instructor should be demonstrating the skill they are trying to teach, which is a core concept in teaching adults. If the instructor is not actually demonstrating the skill, concealed carry and drawing from concealment, in class, the student should ask themselves whether they really are learning the skill they seek.

If the goal is to learn and practice carrying concealed, then practice in class should involve drawing from concealed carry for both the student and instructor. If the instructor is not comfortable drawing and shooting from concealed carry in front of students, that should be a warning flag.

How comfortable is the instructor with actually carrying concealed wearing clothing that we typically would wear in our daily lives and how well concealed is their pistol? I personally try to show up wearing what I wear at work, dressed nicely in a pressed shirt and pressed khakis in the classroom component and on the range perhaps going to a polo shirt if it is hot. If I want the students to see how to carry and draw from concealment, I live and demonstrate it, and that is what should be expected of an instructor if that is the reason for taking the class.

The instructor should use a timer, failure to do so is another flag. This is not a USPSA match, so shaving 0.100 seconds is not the goal, but the timer helps provide some metrics for a student to achieve, such as drawing and putting shots on target in 3 seconds, ultimately 3 shots at 3 yards in 3 seconds from concealment as just one common standard. The timer helps measure student progress, while inducing some psychological stress, which has to be a part of teaching concealed carry skills. If the instructor is not providing some objective goals and metrics that stretch the student to improve, are they really doing anything other than providing a supervised practice session?

Again, training should focus heavily on drawing from concealment, if that is the reason the instruction is sought. Practicing drawing and shooting from concealment is the only way to find out if the holster, belt, pistol, sights, ammo, and shooter will really work as intended. Better to find that out in practice than at a critical moment. I recently changed sights, and working with 603 last weekend, I realized in the cloudy day we had that I really do not like the new sights as well as some others.

Where I am now, and what I focus on now is trying to fill that gap I still remember vividly in 2005. My focus is on teaching entry and intermediate level skills to the average person wanting to learn to carry concealed, most often in a business or professional setting, but who has little or no prior experience.

Anyway, a way too long and winding post, but hopefully it helps others in considering options for training and trainers.

603, thanks for the kind words. Very much enjoyed working with you and your wife, and hope do so again when the cool weather returns.

Jeff, thanks so much for your informative post. Your thoughts and description are exactly what I am looking for....I'm not concerned with 25 yard accuracy or shaving a tenth of a second time off my reloads. Like I mentioned, I don't really like the term "tactical" and that was probably not the best description....I am looking for a defensive handgun, concealed carry type course with different scenarios and sounds like that is exactly what you are describing.

Thanks a bunch, I will look into Tom's class or some of the other names you mentioned in DFW.

I would consider a pie plate group a good group at 20-25 yards.

While not in DFW Aaron Robert's does pistol classes at triple c kn college station and at his range in spring.

Look up "Mac" at Critical Defense Group. They have their own range just North of Greenville.
His training pedigree speaks for itself! Tell him Randy @ Avenger Firearms sent you...
maybe he will not charge you extra!

Go shoot a few USPSA and/or IDPA matches.