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#7250251 - 08/09/18 09:47 AM Question for Chad or others 6.5-284 Shehane - 6.5-284 Norma
Jon Offline
Tracker

Registered: 09/01/04
Posts: 525
Loc: West Texas
Chad, I am asking for some help in load work up suggestions for a custom rifle that has been built for a guy going on a sheep hunt in Alberta in about 10 days. So short fuse now on working up a load. This rifle is a 6.5-284 Shehane which is basically a 6.5-284 Norma improved and a tight neck .290 chamber.

It has a 26" 8 twist light weight stainless barrel. The whole rifle and scope probably only weighs maybe 7 1/2 lbs.

The bullets the customer wants to shoot are choice of 130gr Accubond, 120gr TSX and 127gr LRX.

So far, the 130 Accubonds have been the only ones tried with H4350 and the best result was 3/4" group from 47.O gr charge running at 2869,2871,and 2869 fps. Consistent velocity but the 3/4" is not acceptable. We need it to shoot 1/2" or better. The gun should easily be well capable of that or a lot better with the right load. These Accubonds were seated .040 off the lands.

Of the bullets listed above, what powders would be recommended to try and if you care to guess, a charge weight to start with.

Thanks!!

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#7250331 - 08/09/18 10:55 AM Re: Question for Chad or others 6.5-284 Shehane - 6.5-284 Norma [Re: Jon]
ChadTRG42 Online   happy
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Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 13697
Loc: Lewisville, TX
There's multiple items there to figure out. Why H3450? Are you shooting on fire formed brass or standard 6.5x284 brass? The 130 AB would be good. Depending on how you are shooting a 7.5# rifle, you have to remember it's not a target rifle. It's a hunting gun. A 7.5# total rifle weight is a light weight rifle with a 26" barrel. The barrel will heat up VERY quickly, and will not shoot the same on shots 1 and 2 as it does on shots 4 and 5. Shot 1 and 2 are the most important on a light weight hunting rifle, so that's what I pay attention to the most.

Also, what are the groups doing? Are they open, are they stringing (in a line up/down or diagonal), are they large and wide open in comparison to the other groups? It's hard to know without knowing more info.

The Shehane was made to be slightly faster than the standard 6.5x284. Is the round based on a long action or a short action? Most Shehane's are on a long action, and you seat the bullet out long.
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#7250335 - 08/09/18 10:58 AM Re: Question for Chad or others 6.5-284 Shehane - 6.5-284 Norma [Re: Jon]
J.D.A Offline
Light Foot

Registered: 06/27/18
Posts: 15
Loc: Junction
My go to load is 140g Berger 56.5g of Ratumbo f215M primer .375 MOA I tried the 130ís and my rifle did not like them.
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#7250346 - 08/09/18 11:09 AM Re: Question for Chad or others 6.5-284 Shehane - 6.5-284 Norma [Re: Jon]
kmon1 Offline
junior

Registered: 09/27/06
Posts: 23581
Loc: Texas
All good points and questions by Chad.

My 6.5-284 Norma is in a Cooper 52 with a 1:9 twist 24 inch barrel. I do not remember exact velocities but 140gr Berger VLD were a little warm with 51.5gr of H4831 shot very well though at 5/8 group at 200.

Cranked out a few with Nosler 130gr accubond with the same load and though a bit slower than it could be it still shot 3/4 groups at 200 yards. I then loaded some up and have been hunting with them since
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#7250453 - 08/09/18 01:01 PM Re: Question for Chad or others 6.5-284 Shehane - 6.5-284 Norma [Re: Jon]
TackDriver Offline
Tracker

Registered: 05/02/14
Posts: 920
Try change of powder to H4831SC and H1000, see what pops up. I mainly use H4831SC in my 6.5 x 284

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#7250454 - 08/09/18 01:04 PM Re: Question for Chad or others 6.5-284 Shehane - 6.5-284 Norma [Re: J.D.A]
FiremanJG Online   content
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Originally Posted By: J.D.A
My go to load is 140g Berger 56.5g of Ratumbo f215M primer .375 MOA I tried the 130ís and my rifle did not like them.


Yup. My first thought with O.P. was "too light a bullet for all that fuel".
In a 6.5-284, I personally wouldn't load anything lighter than a 140 gr.
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#7250581 - 08/09/18 03:00 PM Re: Question for Chad or others 6.5-284 Shehane - 6.5-284 Norma [Re: ChadTRG42]
Jon Offline
Tracker

Registered: 09/01/04
Posts: 525
Loc: West Texas
Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42
There's multiple items there to figure out. Why H3450? Are you shooting on fire formed brass or standard 6.5x284 brass? The 130 AB would be good. Depending on how you are shooting a 7.5# rifle, you have to remember it's not a target rifle. It's a hunting gun. A 7.5# total rifle weight is a light weight rifle with a 26" barrel. The barrel will heat up VERY quickly, and will not shoot the same on shots 1 and 2 as it does on shots 4 and 5. Shot 1 and 2 are the most important on a light weight hunting rifle, so that's what I pay attention to the most.

Also, what are the groups doing? Are they open, are they stringing (in a line up/down or diagonal), are they large and wide open in comparison to the other groups? It's hard to know without knowing more info.

The Shehane was made to be slightly faster than the standard 6.5x284. Is the round based on a long action or a short action? Most Shehane's are on a long action, and you seat the bullet out long.




Chad,
The H4350 was just picked to try because it shot extremely well with same bullet in a heavy barrel F class gun that was cut with the same reamer. The guy is not married to that powder but that's what was tried first. Hoping for same results due to the short window of time but doesn't look good so far with that powder.

The Lapua brass is prepped, trimmed necks turned, and fireformed then tumbled in corn or walnut.

Yes, it is a hunting gun and very light weight. It has a carbon fiber stock and the match grade barrel was turned down about as thin as it could get and still be safe with stainless. The sheep hunter wanted to save weight everywhere he could.

The initial testing groups were done as 3 shots from a cold and already fouled barrel. Rifle was cooled down between groups. It was broke in with the fire forming loads, cleaned, and then fouled before starting the testing.

The groups are open triangles and not stringing. Different seating depths were tried with different charge weights.
Worst was seated close to touching the lands and 1" or a little over. Best was .040 off the lands and 3/4"
The owner will be happy with consistent 1/2" accuracy from this hunting gun if that's what it winds up.

It' as built with Defiance Deviant long action - i think it's the ultralight. For some reason the loads tried with the H4350 and the 130 accubonds in this one did not seem to like the bullet seated long. - so far anyway.

Thanks for the reply and sharing your knowledge. Maybe these answers will help get to the goal.

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#7250586 - 08/09/18 03:06 PM Re: Question for Chad or others 6.5-284 Shehane - 6.5-284 Norma [Re: Jon]
ChadTRG42 Online   happy
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Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 13697
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Ok. What's the relationship here with everyone? You're doing this load work up for the hunter, so is he a friend, customer?
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#7250597 - 08/09/18 03:19 PM Re: Question for Chad or others 6.5-284 Shehane - 6.5-284 Norma [Re: Jon]
Jon Offline
Tracker

Registered: 09/01/04
Posts: 525
Loc: West Texas
Thank you to the rest of you guys for the replies.

kmon1, I think the owner would probably be happy with 3/4" @ 200

TackDriver, H4831SC was next on the list and then H1000 if the 4831SC doesn't do it.

Fireman, I'll pass along your thoughts on the 130's maybe being too light. They could sure be made to go faster but
the accuracy wasn't as good. The Barnes I mentioned and more Accubonds came in today but they are all 130 down to 120 weights. hammer

We appreciate everyone's help. I'm just trying to help the ones working up the loads. They're not trying to bypass the normal work of testing and working up loads but me and those 2 are supposed to leave for Utah on a week long camping trip Saturday (was originally supposed to be tomorrow) so we're trying to take advantage of the knowledge base on here to speed things up. We get back one day before the hunter is leaving for Canada and he needs to shoot it before he goes. Basically we can't leave till this is sorted out.

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#7250653 - 08/09/18 04:05 PM Re: Question for Chad or others 6.5-284 Shehane - 6.5-284 Norma [Re: Jon]
kmon1 Offline
junior

Registered: 09/27/06
Posts: 23581
Loc: Texas
A good thing about accubond is they are not normally as seating depth dependent as some other bullets. Good luck with it and hope he has a great hunt
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#7250659 - 08/09/18 04:16 PM Re: Question for Chad or others 6.5-284 Shehane - 6.5-284 Norma [Re: ChadTRG42]
Jon Offline
Tracker

Registered: 09/01/04
Posts: 525
Loc: West Texas
Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42
Ok. What's the relationship here with everyone? You're doing this load work up for the hunter, so is he a friend, customer?
My Brother and his partner are building the guns. The hunter is a customer/friend.
Their deal is to build him the gun (done) and work him up a load that will shoot in the gun. (not done). If we weren't trying to get this done quick so we can go fishing at Flaming Gorge, I probably wouldn't be asking here for the free advice and those 2 would be doing their normal work ups of loads on their own like they usually do. I apologize if this is out of line to ask in this situation and sure didn't intend to mislead anyone. It was my idea to ask on here because of the wide range of knowledge. Thanks!!

edit> Chad, I hadn't see your last post when I made the reply right below it to everyone. That wasn't intended to ignore your question, I just hadn't seen it yet. When i went back and re-read, mine looks sort of rude to ignore your question and it was not intended that way. blush


Edited by Jon (08/09/18 04:29 PM)
Edit Reason: missed a post

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#7250685 - 08/09/18 04:39 PM Re: Question for Chad or others 6.5-284 Shehane - 6.5-284 Norma [Re: Jon]
cblackall Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 05/12/16
Posts: 226
Loc: Lewisville, TX
Iíll second a 140 gr bullet and Retumbo. My standard 6.5x284 loves this combo. Depending on powder lot, The node should be between 56.5-58.0 gr. Work up to it. I also had good results with H1000, but Retumbo gave more velocity with no loss in accuracy (under 0.5 MOA). I tried H4350 and 4831 as well, but never did get the velocity I was looking for. With Retumbo and a 140 VLD-H, Iím knocking on 3000 fps in a 24Ē barrel.

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#7250744 - 08/09/18 05:24 PM Re: Question for Chad or others 6.5-284 Shehane - 6.5-284 Norma [Re: Jon]
Jon Offline
Tracker

Registered: 09/01/04
Posts: 525
Loc: West Texas
Thanks cblackall for that info - sounds pretty impressive! I'll pass that along.

The latest report is that they're getting 1/2" now with the 127 gr Barnes LRX and RL22. I don't know any more than that right now but will update the thread when I get more info about what they've done.

>>Update: They wound up with the Barnes 127LRX and RL22 at a grain over the 6.5-284 Norma max load. They tried some more accubonds and tried H4831SC but not as good of results as the LRX (which was one of the owners requested bullet choices). with the RL22 and seated well off the lands, it shoots 1/2 inch "if you can hold that light gun still enough". Velocity is 2950. Everyone seems happy so far and sending 50 rounds with the gun.

We can go fishing now!! Thanks all. cheers


Edited by Jon (08/10/18 10:08 AM)
Edit Reason: update

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#7251483 - 08/10/18 12:53 PM Re: Question for Chad or others 6.5-284 Shehane - 6.5-284 Norma [Re: Jon]
ChadTRG42 Online   happy
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Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 13697
Loc: Lewisville, TX
Originally Posted By: Jon
>>Update: They wound up with the Barnes 127LRX and RL22 at a grain over the 6.5-284 Norma max load. They tried some more accubonds and tried H4831SC but not as good of results as the LRX (which was one of the owners requested bullet choices). with the RL22 and seated well off the lands, it shoots 1/2 inch "if you can hold that light gun still enough". Velocity is 2950. Everyone seems happy so far and sending 50 rounds with the gun.


Question. Why would you chamber the rifle in a hot rod Shehane, and then run the ammo slower than a normal 6.5x284 round? The Shehane blows the case walls out .020" for added case volume over a standard 6.5x284. In a normal 6.5x284 round, you can easily push a 127 grain bullet to 3000-3100+ fps in a 26" barrel (link HERE). A Shehane has about 3 grains extra powder case capacity over the 6.5x284 case, for faster speeds. If you are running a 127 grain bullet at 2950 fps (which I could do in a 24" 6.5 Creedmoor case- data HERE ) in a Shehane chambering, why do you water the ammo down so low that you are not taking advantage of the Shehane case? If I were the customer on this, I would not be very pleased I'm running a hot rod Shehane caliber and only getting 6.5 Creedmoor speeds. You should be running that bullet easily over 3100 fps, even maybe 3200 fps. I run a 140 grain in a standard 6.5x284 case at 3050 on a long action seated out long. I don't know, it just seems there is a lot left on the table on this ammo. Just my 2cents
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#7251521 - 08/10/18 01:40 PM Re: Question for Chad or others 6.5-284 Shehane - 6.5-284 Norma [Re: Jon]
Jon Offline
Tracker

Registered: 09/01/04
Posts: 525
Loc: West Texas
Those are some very good questions Chad. I donít have the answer to why they didnít speed it up to make use of the extra case capacity but I will find out. Hopefully there will be a dead sheep
on the ground that didnít know what he was shot with.

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