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#7246932 - 08/06/18 12:03 PM Build a new military cartridge
603Country Online   content
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 07/03/12
Posts: 6403
Loc: Central Texas
So, the 223 is too puny and the 30-06 and 308 are too big. Letís start from scratch. The case has to be bigger than the 223, but not too big. Canít be too short and fat, for MG feeding.

After some thought on this, Iíd probably recommend a minor redesign on the 220 Swift case. Get rid of the semi-rim and some of the taper and expand it to 24 or 25 caliber and develop a military style bullet for it. Itís already a very strong case and once was a military round.

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#7246939 - 08/06/18 12:08 PM Re: Build a new military cartridge [Re: 603Country]
redchevy Online   content
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Registered: 10/25/04
Posts: 28196
Loc: Texas
Sounds like a 243 would be a much simpler solution.
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#7246948 - 08/06/18 12:11 PM Re: Build a new military cartridge [Re: 603Country]
FiremanJG Online   content
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Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 25644
Loc: Wolfe City, TX
Already been solved. It is called the 6.5 Grendel. Fits in the current rifle, does more work.
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#7247014 - 08/06/18 12:59 PM Re: Build a new military cartridge [Re: FiremanJG]
garyrapp55 Offline
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Registered: 12/26/11
Posts: 853
Loc: Ft. Worth
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Already been solved. It is called the 6.5 Grendel. Fits in the current rifle, does more work.

I have to agree, even tho I use a 6.8, the Grendel will do just as well up close and much better way out there.

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#7247040 - 08/06/18 01:19 PM Re: Build a new military cartridge [Re: garyrapp55]
kmon1 Online   content
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Registered: 09/27/06
Posts: 23426
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: garyrapp55
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Already been solved. It is called the 6.5 Grendel. Fits in the current rifle, does more work.

I have to agree, even tho I use a 6.8, the Grendel will do just as well up close and much better way out there.


+2
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#7247168 - 08/06/18 03:08 PM Re: Build a new military cartridge [Re: 603Country]
603Country Online   content
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Registered: 07/03/12
Posts: 6403
Loc: Central Texas
We can do better than the Grendel.

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#7247183 - 08/06/18 03:23 PM Re: Build a new military cartridge [Re: 603Country]
FiremanJG Online   content
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Registered: 12/16/08
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Originally Posted By: 603Country
We can do better than the Grendel.


Not fitting in the M-16, I don't think so.

Yes, if the military wants to go with all new rifles. But, it will be a hard sell to get them to go to an AR-10 platform for every pair of boots. Then you're back to the weight of a loaded mag. That's the reason they left the 7.62X51 in the first place. I did the math some months ago, and for a soldier or Marine to carry the same weight of ammo, but in 6.5 Grendel, he was carrying one more magazine and a total added weight of less than 2 pounds IIRC.
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#7247254 - 08/06/18 04:29 PM Re: Build a new military cartridge [Re: 603Country]
kmon1 Online   content
junior

Registered: 09/27/06
Posts: 23426
Loc: Texas
For it to fit in a mil spec M16/M4 the Grendal can be beat perhaps by some of its wildcats like the fat-rat, grendelmax or a few 6mm ones but the original Grendel was designed for the most performance to fit in an AR15 platforn . Bill A did pretty good with it.

With factory ammo the 123gr Grendel passes the 243 in energy around the 400 yard mark at 500 yards and beyond it easily surpasses the 243 in that measure. Give it a 108gr fmj shaped like the matchking of the same weight and run it at 2600+ from a M4 for a game changer in energy delivered on target compared to a 556.


Edited by kmon1 (08/06/18 04:38 PM)
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#7247264 - 08/06/18 04:34 PM Re: Build a new military cartridge [Re: 603Country]
dee Online   content
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Registered: 04/10/10
Posts: 5447
Loc: Red River way
Biggest issue imo is the military primarily dropping below a 16" in barrel length. That and bullet choice really affect the performance. If staying under 77gr a 6mm-223 would be my choice.
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#7247277 - 08/06/18 04:44 PM Re: Build a new military cartridge [Re: 603Country]
unclebubba Online   content
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Registered: 11/07/11
Posts: 1635
Loc: Collin County, TX
Question is then, why has the Grendal not been adopted by the military yet?
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#7247285 - 08/06/18 04:52 PM Re: Build a new military cartridge [Re: 603Country]
dee Online   content
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Registered: 04/10/10
Posts: 5447
Loc: Red River way
Longevity of parts. Bolts are the main concern.
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#7247299 - 08/06/18 05:09 PM Re: Build a new military cartridge [Re: unclebubba]
FiremanJG Online   content
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Originally Posted By: unclebubba
Question is then, why has the Grendal not been adopted by the military yet?



Why are Snipers just now moving from the 7.62X51 to the 6.5 Creedmoor, after it's been in use for over a decade?

Bureaucratic red tape.
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#7247302 - 08/06/18 05:11 PM Re: Build a new military cartridge [Re: FiremanJG]
dee Online   content
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Registered: 04/10/10
Posts: 5447
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Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Originally Posted By: unclebubba
Question is then, why has the Grendal not been adopted by the military yet?



Why are Snipers just now moving from the 7.62X51 to the 6.5 Creedmoor, after it's been in use for over a decade?

Bureaucratic red tape.


Certain units have been running 260 in their gas guns for a good while. While not big army they a lot of times get things rolling in the right direction.
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#7247308 - 08/06/18 05:16 PM Re: Build a new military cartridge [Re: dee]
FiremanJG Online   content
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Registered: 12/16/08
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Just been a couple of months anyone made an article of the move. Doesn't mean it didn't happen sooner.

Still, took em long enough!
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#7247319 - 08/06/18 05:25 PM Re: Build a new military cartridge [Re: FiremanJG]
dee Online   content
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Registered: 04/10/10
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Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Just been a couple of months anyone made an article of the move. Doesn't mean it didn't happen sooner.

Still, took em long enough!


Big army doesn't move fast at all.
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