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Re: Longest ethical shot
[Re: SenkoSamurai]
#7228680
07/18/18 09:28 PM
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 12,861
PMK
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yep, true fair chase would involve a knife or a club ... Trazan style, loin cloth and all.
"everyone that lives dies but not everyone who dies lived..."
~PMK~
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Re: Longest ethical shot
[Re: SenkoSamurai]
#7228682
07/18/18 09:28 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,422
jeffbird
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My foremost ethical concern in hunting is that the animal not suffer to the extent I can avoid it.
Some can make longer range shots with a very high degree of reliabilty to produce very clean, quick kills.
Conversely, watching people shoot at the range before deer season, a huge percentage struggle at even 100 yards.
So, the question of the ability to produce clean kills really is more about a person's particular proficiency than the distance.
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Re: Longest ethical shot
[Re: Choctaw]
#7228694
07/18/18 09:35 PM
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,687
SherpaPhil
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So do you hunt with a knife or a club?
Nope. Like everyone else, I pick some arbitrary line for what I personally consider sporting and go with that.
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Re: Longest ethical shot
[Re: SenkoSamurai]
#7228696
07/18/18 09:37 PM
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 12,861
PMK
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agree jeffbird ... never ceases to amaze me every time I go to a range to make sure everything is hitting like it should be to see other people spraying shots over a 12 inch area calling that good enough for hunting.
"everyone that lives dies but not everyone who dies lived..."
~PMK~
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Re: Longest ethical shot
[Re: PMK]
#7228721
07/18/18 10:00 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,158
J.G.
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agree jeffbird ... never ceases to amaze me every time I go to a range to make sure everything is hitting like it should be to see other people spraying shots over a 12 inch area calling that good enough for hunting. A ranch I was a guest on last September has a nice range, out to a mile. Every hunter has to qualify before hunting. Show a 100 yard zero inside 2", and hit a 10" plate at 300 yards. A man had his 21 year old son trying to qualify, and he was all over the place. No trigger discipline, not controlling the rifle, it was beating him up, and making him shoot even worse. I stayed 20 yards behind minding my own business. The friend I was with went over to the older man and quietly spoke to him. Then he came over to me and said "would you please go fix this?" When I got over to the 21 year old, everyone shut up, and let me help him. In 10 minutes he was way better off, and was able to qualify with the ranch's requirements. Point being, many people just don't know what they don't know, so they don't understand how to correct problems. If they can even recognize a problem.
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Re: Longest ethical shot
[Re: SenkoSamurai]
#7228737
07/18/18 10:17 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 65,514
SnakeWrangler
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Not sure how “ethical” but....200+ yds with a .22lr on feral goats. We were on a rise and they were in a field below and going away from us. Aimed high over the lead goat....second one from the back dropped on impact. Hit in the back of the head right at the base of the skull....
I believe in science and I’m an insufferable [censored] Actually, BBC is pretty damn good "You Cannot Simultaneously Be Politically Correct And Intellectually Honest!"
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Re: Longest ethical shot
[Re: SenkoSamurai]
#7228754
07/18/18 10:32 PM
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 12,861
PMK
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agree FiremanJG ... as I was once told "it's okay to be ignorant, that means you just haven't been taught" ... although I have been shooting & hunting for 55+ years, I am always open to learn something new.
Several years back a pro trap/skeet shooter was at a friendly backyard pre-dove season clay shoot, after I shot a few times he asked if I was coachable, sure, he gave me several stance pointers and I busted the next 5 or 6 clays in a row. just simple little tricks/tips can make a world of difference, can also calm nerves when under pressure.
"everyone that lives dies but not everyone who dies lived..."
~PMK~
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Re: Longest ethical shot
[Re: SnakeWrangler]
#7228756
07/18/18 10:33 PM
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 12,861
PMK
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Not sure how “ethical” but....200+ yds with a .22lr on feral goats. We were on a rise and they were in a field below and going away from us. Aimed high over the lead goat....second one from the back dropped on impact. Hit in the back of the head right at the base of the skull.... very similar to my WT doe at 800+ yards story ... LOL
"everyone that lives dies but not everyone who dies lived..."
~PMK~
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Re: Longest ethical shot
[Re: PMK]
#7228788
07/18/18 11:07 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 65,514
SnakeWrangler
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Not sure how “ethical” but....200+ yds with a .22lr on feral goats. We were on a rise and they were in a field below and going away from us. Aimed high over the lead goat....second one from the back dropped on impact. Hit in the back of the head right at the base of the skull.... very similar to my WT doe at 800+ yards story ... LOL My buddy yelled “I can’t believe you got him!” I never told him I was aiming at the one about 10 yards ahead...we were 18....
I believe in science and I’m an insufferable [censored] Actually, BBC is pretty damn good "You Cannot Simultaneously Be Politically Correct And Intellectually Honest!"
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Re: Longest ethical shot
[Re: SenkoSamurai]
#7228878
07/19/18 12:51 AM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 43,845
Stub
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Furthest shot for me was 323 yards with a Browning 7mm Mag, I was laying down with a small burm for a shooting prop. Was it ethical? I felt comfortable taking a broadside shot on a doe and she dropped like a rock.
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Re: Longest ethical shot
[Re: SenkoSamurai]
#7228908
07/19/18 01:24 AM
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Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 2,823
RattlesnakeDan
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65 yds...Antelope with Longbow 400 plus a few times on elk....270, 135gr Remington BT. 15 years in Colorado and 5 in Montana gives you many opportunities at distance shooting each year. Have missed elk at less than 20 yds with bow...shaking and looking at their head and shoot right over them.
Just like Jesus, sometimes you gotta kill some hogs. Lone Star Mesquite . com RattleSnake Dan's Shredding Service
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Re: Longest ethical shot
[Re: Texan Til I Die]
#7228968
07/19/18 02:24 AM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 8,234
Double Naught Spy
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The debate over what is "ethical" or an acceptable distance for a shot is 100% based on the shooter and the equipment they use. If I'm hunting with my 300 blk out bolt gun, that's about 250-300 yards for me. If I have my 7mm/300 Win Mag set up on a ridge covering out to 800 yards, that's a very doable shot with favorable conditions. I think the shooter and gear are definitely components, but so two are the distance, environmental issues, and animal. We often see "ethical" as being determined after the fact when that may not be the case. However, a great shooter, great gear, great conditions, who can hit a 6" circle at 1000 yards still doesn't mean hunting at 1000 yards would be ethical when you consider the fact that a stationary deer can literally walk nearly completely out from in front of the bullet during the course of the bullet's flight time, and the shooter has no control over this and can't correct or compensate for is except by reducing the distance. So is it really ethical to be making a shot at that sort of distance if the animal can move out of the way of the bullet? Well, that made me curious so I ran the numbers on Time of Flight for a 7mm 175 ELD-X leaving the muzzle at 2900 fps. At 1000 yards it takes 1.35 seconds to reach the target and it will be traveling at 1688 fps and have 1107 ft/lbs of energy. Applying that 1.35 second flight time as a benchmark could make a whole bunch of bow shots outside the ethical margins. BTW - I'm neither agreeing nor disagreeing with your statement. Just providing some numbers for people to consider. Actually, there is even more time to consider. It takes about 0.2 seconds for most younger guys and up to 0.3 seconds for us older guys between when the brain makes the decision to pull the trigger and when the signal actually reaches to implement the action. So for your 7mm example, the animal has the chance to move for 1.55-1.65 seconds before the bullet arrives. Using 1.6 seconds as an example, if the quarry moves at just 1 mph, it can move just over 2'4". At 2 mph, it can move 4'8". Even such slow moves at such a long distance would result in horrible shots in regard to impacting the animal.
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Re: Longest ethical shot
[Re: SenkoSamurai]
#7229015
07/19/18 03:09 AM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 10,984
Texas buckeye
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And just imagine a 2mph movement from an animal is simply an animal taking a single stride to graze or just a simple step. If an animal gets spooked it will move much faster than that, but thats not what we are talking about. Just a regular feeding movement from an animal could mean the difference between a good lunch shot or a butt shot. I know there are people who are comfortable shooting targets or steel at 1000 yards, but is shooting a game animal at that distance an ethical shot or just a hope the animal doesn't move long enough for the bullet to arrive?
tough question for me to answer since I don't shoot that far. Not trying to be elitist, just stating I don't have need to shoot that far and most likely won't ever. To each their own.
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Re: Longest ethical shot
[Re: SenkoSamurai]
#7229039
07/19/18 03:29 AM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,240
Erny
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428 yards on a Gemsbok. Using a Remington 700, 300 Win Mage with 165 grain federal fusion ammunition.
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Re: Longest ethical shot
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#7229399
07/19/18 03:08 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 18,554
ducknbass
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Fair chase went out the window as soon as a weapon was involved. Nothing fair about killing and eating meat.
We shouldn’t discount the amount of training, range time and equipment time that went into someone being able to make what they feel is an ethical shot.
Generally most people just don’t understand the dynamics behind long range shooting, which is fine unless you are just totally opposed to learning that discipline. When that closed mind set occurs, the idea about fair chase or ethical (depending on how you define it)isn’t a real thing, it’s a pulpit badge.
I’m not a long range rifle hunter by definition. I’ve put a lot of rounds into steel and rocks at long range, I just don’t have the time nor discipline to be able to fill comfortable pulling the trigger on an animal over 500 yards, much less a 1000, but I fully wouldn’t take 300 yard shoot with out having put multiple rounds to 600.
It wouldn’t hurt us as hunters to have a more open or atleast to have a more seek to understand mindset towards different means and methods.
Read that first sentence and shut her down. Go up North and tell people you hunt in texas. You'll get laughed out of town. a lot of states do not allow feeders. Most deer hunters in the states do not stand hunt, much less over a feeder pen. They would call that unethical or non fair chase. Read some books by Steve rinella and see what he thinks about high fence hunters. It's all relative to what the hunters wants. As hunters we should ask ourselves 3 things. 1. Will the animal be taken humanly 2. Will the meat be harvested.(baring predator or invasive species control) 3. Is it legal. If the answer to those things is yes. We should learn to let our personal opinions of what others do go to the way side it's not our business.
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Re: Longest ethical shot
[Re: SenkoSamurai]
#7229422
07/19/18 03:28 PM
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 33,946
Buzzsaw
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Lots of on this thread. I had to raise my pant legs got so deep. mine was a whopping 175 yards about 40 years ago on a Mule Deer hunts near Marathon
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Re: Longest ethical shot
[Re: SenkoSamurai]
#7229432
07/19/18 03:38 PM
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 6,321
onlysmith&wesson
THF Trophy Hunter
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I don't care what anyone says, I'm good enough, I'm smart enough and I can shoot a deer over them there mountains. Brought to you by Uncle Ricco, and Stuart Smalley
An unethical shot is one you take, that you know you shouldn't.
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Re: Longest ethical shot
[Re: ducknbass]
#7229442
07/19/18 03:48 PM
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 5,918
Jgraider
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Read that first sentence and shut her down.
Go up North and tell people you hunt in texas. You'll get laughed out of town. a lot of states do not allow feeders. Most deer hunters in the states do not stand hunt, much less over a feeder pen. They would call that unethical or non fair chase.
Read some books by Steve rinella and see what he thinks about high fence hunters.
Then again, lots of hunter "up North", and even in the SE, hunt in stands overlooking green fields. Saying "most" of them do not is ignorant. Most of these same experts don't even realize there are 8000ft mountains in Texas either. Finally, why should anyone give a schitttt what Steve Rinella thinks? If a guy enjoys hunting feeders and HF, I say get after it.
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Re: Longest ethical shot
[Re: SenkoSamurai]
#7229446
07/19/18 03:53 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,934
ChadTRG42
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Here's one from a few years ago. TRG 42 in 300 WM with 208 grain A-max, ~280 yards on a walking doe. This was the biggest deer I have ever shot. Yes, biggest as in the heaviest weight. She was HUGE! We were set up on a high point covering 2 feeders, one to the left about 400 yards and one to the right at 305. She came out walking just in front of it.
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Re: Longest ethical shot
[Re: SenkoSamurai]
#7229450
07/19/18 03:56 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 315
trigger time
Bird Dog
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Not my furthest, but we happened to get it on video. 560 yards, 6.5 saum. And before anyone ask's why it was so high, we were quite a bit above her and the exit was well down in the lungs. As Jeffbird can tell you a high shoulder will drop them as quick as a head shot.
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Re: Longest ethical shot
[Re: SenkoSamurai]
#7229460
07/19/18 04:00 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,934
ChadTRG42
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Re: Longest ethical shot
[Re: SenkoSamurai]
#7229500
07/19/18 04:28 PM
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Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 2,067
mattyg06
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281 yards as ranged by the guide sitting right behind me on an elk last year.
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Re: Longest ethical shot
[Re: ducknbass]
#7229533
07/19/18 04:49 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,414
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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Fair chase went out the window as soon as a weapon was involved. Nothing fair about killing and eating meat.
We shouldn’t discount the amount of training, range time and equipment time that went into someone being able to make what they feel is an ethical shot.
Generally most people just don’t understand the dynamics behind long range shooting, which is fine unless you are just totally opposed to learning that discipline. When that closed mind set occurs, the idea about fair chase or ethical (depending on how you define it)isn’t a real thing, it’s a pulpit badge.
I’m not a long range rifle hunter by definition. I’ve put a lot of rounds into steel and rocks at long range, I just don’t have the time nor discipline to be able to fill comfortable pulling the trigger on an animal over 500 yards, much less a 1000, but I fully wouldn’t take 300 yard shoot with out having put multiple rounds to 600.
It wouldn’t hurt us as hunters to have a more open or atleast to have a more seek to understand mindset towards different means and methods.
Read that first sentence and shut her down. Go up North and tell people you hunt in texas. You'll get laughed out of town. a lot of states do not allow feeders. Most deer hunters in the states do not stand hunt, much less over a feeder pen. They would call that unethical or non fair chase. Read some books by Steve rinella and see what he thinks about high fence hunters. It's all relative to what the hunters wants. As hunters we should ask ourselves 3 things. 1. Will the animal be taken humanly 2. Will the meat be harvested.(baring predator or invasive species control) 3. Is it legal. If the answer to those things is yes. We should learn to let our personal opinions of what others do go to the way side it's not our business. Every taboo form/method/restriction parallels ones self righteous form/method/restriction... We will realize it when we are old and all hunting is gone.
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Re: Longest ethical shot
[Re: Jgraider]
#7229549
07/19/18 05:03 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 18,554
ducknbass
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Read that first sentence and shut her down.
Go up North and tell people you hunt in texas. You'll get laughed out of town. a lot of states do not allow feeders. Most deer hunters in the states do not stand hunt, much less over a feeder pen. They would call that unethical or non fair chase.
Read some books by Steve rinella and see what he thinks about high fence hunters.
If a guy enjoys hunting feeders and HF, I say get after it. Precisely what I said.
Last edited by ducknbass; 07/19/18 05:05 PM.
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Re: Longest ethical shot
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#7229553
07/19/18 05:04 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,158
J.G.
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Every taboo form/method/restriction parallels ones self righteous form/method/restriction...
We will realize it when we are old and all hunting is gone.
That's right. Once upon a time, I was a hard line anti-high fence guy. After reading some of the experiences on this forum, of very large HF ranches, I have become more accepting of them. Therefore I just don't get into it, when it comes up. The reason those of us that are equipped and skilled enough to make clean kills significantly farther than the average bear, have become that way is that we can cover more acres. Everyone has tales of rifle and bow hunting of they saw (fill in the blank) but it was too far away. Holding a compound bow and saw the deer of a lifetime at 200 yards. Maybe holding a scoped rifle and saw the deer of a lifetime at 500 yards. Some of us want the ability to make that clean kill at 500. But, as most know, it cannot be bought. Yes, money on equipment must be spent, but just doing that won't get any one there. Ya gotta put in the time, becoming familiar, then seeking mastery of that equipment, as well as, wind reading, and good marksmanship skills. Not to mention the observance of animal behavior and movement. 10 years ago I couldn't do what I can do now. It is 50,000 rounds later...
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