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Ideal bullet Performance
#7216133
07/05/18 01:18 AM
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,809
Cleric
OP
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OP
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What do you consider ideal bullet performance?
I would think full expansion and pass through to allow for tracking. But somebody said they wanted full expansion and the bullet to stop in the animal as it dumped the most energy in the animal.
Thoughts?
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Re: Ideal bullet Performance
[Re: Cleric]
#7216145
07/05/18 01:46 AM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 31,055
HWY_MAN
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What do you consider ideal bullet performance?
I would think full expansion and pass through to allow for tracking. But somebody said they wanted full expansion and the bullet to stop in the animal as it dumped the most energy in the animal.
Thoughts? I want them bleeding out both sides.
Yes! A Weatherby does kill them deader.
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Re: Ideal bullet Performance
[Re: Cleric]
#7216146
07/05/18 01:49 AM
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 5,900
Jgraider
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I like a bullet that is designed to retain 60% of its weight. Sometimes they pass through, sometimes they don't.
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Re: Ideal bullet Performance
[Re: Cleric]
#7216148
07/05/18 01:51 AM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,586
ckat
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I don't want a bullet to penetrate to the point of penciling through. I'm fine with finding the bullet in the off-side skin/shoulder. I shoot right through the middle of the front running gear, so impacts are most often dramatic...
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Re: Ideal bullet Performance
[Re: Jgraider]
#7216150
07/05/18 01:53 AM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,586
ckat
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I like a bullet that is designed to retain 60% of its weight. Sometimes they pass through, sometimes they don't. x2. I shoot NBTs, NABs, and SGKs almost exclusively.
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Re: Ideal bullet Performance
[Re: Cleric]
#7216155
07/05/18 01:58 AM
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 11,857
Simple Searcher
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I clean 20+ animals a year that we find the bullet embedded just under the skin on the opposite of penetration. They are generally all destroyed inside, full of blood and jelly. These deer/antelope generally do nor go far, so tracking is not a big deal. So no pass through is just fine for me.
"Man is still a hunter, still a simple searcher after meat..." Robert C. Ruark
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Re: Ideal bullet Performance
[Re: Cleric]
#7216171
07/05/18 02:32 AM
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 777
MClark
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Full expansion and pass through. If you need the energy the bullet still had after exiting use a bigger gun.
M
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Re: Ideal bullet Performance
[Re: ckat]
#7216183
07/05/18 02:55 AM
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 5,165
scottfromdallas
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I like a bullet that is designed to retain 60% of its weight. Sometimes they pass through, sometimes they don't. x2. I shoot NBTs, NABs, and SGKs almost exclusively. X3. I'm one that will never complain about bullet failure when I have no exit and the animal drops on the spot.
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Re: Ideal bullet Performance
[Re: Cleric]
#7216187
07/05/18 03:01 AM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 8,217
Double Naught Spy
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What do you consider ideal bullet performance?
I would think full expansion and pass through to allow for tracking. But somebody said they wanted full expansion and the bullet to stop in the animal as it dumped the most energy in the animal.
Thoughts? I don't think it is boiled down so easily as this and I don't really think the condition of the bullet is nearly as important as the condition of the animal. In other words, what is happening to the bullet isn't nearly as important as what is happening to the animal. You can get comparable levels of lethality with bullets than perform very differently. The bullets that I like for killing hogs are not bullets that I would like nearly as much if I was a meat hunter because they leave so much lead behind in the animal and it is in the form of tiny pieces that sometimes can be found outside of the main wound channel that is often fairly massive. It is the massive wound channel, however, that I really like to see. The more tissue destruction being done, the better. The bullets in question tend to leave permanent wound channels larger than the diameter of the expanded {when recovered} bullet. If I was a meat hunter, I think I would prefer one of the monolithic bullets that seem to bore such nice holes through the bodies of animals, often with nice clean wound channels that seem to be about the diameter of the expanded bullet, leaving no lead behind, and often overpenetrating too boot.
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Re: Ideal bullet Performance
[Re: Cleric]
#7216234
07/05/18 07:25 AM
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Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 5
BluffGruff
Green Horn
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Green Horn
Joined: Dec 2016
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You don't need expansion with the high-shoulder shot.
But,
I have recently switched from Accubonds (several instances of bullet fragmentation in antelope without exit) in favor of Barnes LRXs. Lead poisoning is real, which is why I chose the all copper option. If I'm going to feed ground meat to my kid (soon to be kids), I don't want to drop their IQ or cause any of the other ill effects of excessive lead exposure. Otherwise, the Nosler Partition is really hard to beat, and I killed 50 whitetails and a bunch of other stuff with that bullet out to 300 yards.
A note on performance. I hit a 24 inch steel plate at 1000 yards with 180gr LRXs out of my 300 Win Mag 7 of 10 shots.
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Re: Ideal bullet Performance
[Re: Cleric]
#7216283
07/05/18 12:36 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,083
J.G.
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What do you consider ideal bullet performance?
I would think full expansion and pass through to allow for tracking. But somebody said they wanted full expansion and the bullet to stop in the animal as it dumped the most energy in the animal.
Thoughts? Either one is fine, as long as the bullet expands. I've had lots of past through's and some that did not, depending on animal size, toughness, and shot angle. All resulted in no real tracking, and cleanly killed animals.
800 Yard Steel Range Precision Rifle Instruction Memberships and Classes Available
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Re: Ideal bullet Performance
[Re: J.G.]
#7216308
07/05/18 01:16 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 8,217
Double Naught Spy
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I've had lots of past through's and some that did not, depending on animal size, toughness, and shot angle. Just curious, did you cut open the animal to explore the wound tract? The reason why I ask is that in numerous cases I have seen unremarkable exit wounds, often that look like unexpanded bullet exits, when it fact the bullet expanded, did lots of damage, and either due to skin stretch or loss of petals, made an unremarkable exit.
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Re: Ideal bullet Performance
[Re: Double Naught Spy]
#7216326
07/05/18 01:39 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,083
J.G.
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I've had lots of past through's and some that did not, depending on animal size, toughness, and shot angle. Just curious, did you cut open the animal to explore the wound tract? The reason why I ask is that in numerous cases I have seen unremarkable exit wounds, often that look like unexpanded bullet exits, when it fact the bullet expanded, did lots of damage, and either due to skin stretch or loss of petals, made an unremarkable exit. Only whitetail buck I've ever shot was 120 yards. Right shoulder entry, found the bullet in the left flank area, no exit. 165 gr Sierra Game Kind SPBT out of a .308 Win. Bullet expanded to 3/4" and still weighed 140 gr (still have it). Lungs destroyed, G.I. track destroyed. Bull elk, 200 yards, 7 Rem Mag 180 gr VLD-Hunting @3000 fps MV. We did not gut him, but I do not recall an exit wound. He was on the ground 5 seconds after he was hit, and had only made about 4 slow steps.
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Re: Ideal bullet Performance
[Re: Cleric]
#7216343
07/05/18 01:59 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,789
ZenArchery
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Re: Ideal bullet Performance
[Re: Cleric]
#7216347
07/05/18 02:02 PM
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 15,606
603Country
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I’m with Hwy Man, in that I prefer an exit wound. Sometimes tracking has to happen, so more blood makes the tracking easier. As for bullet preference, all I use these days (and have used since Nosler quit making SBBTs) is the Nosler Ballistic Tip. Effective and sometimes messy, and i most always get an exit wound on deer of all sizes. Don’t get many exit wounds on hogs though. I shoot a 260 these days, with 120 gr BTs. With my 270 I use the 130 gr BTs.
Not my monkeys, not my circus...
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Re: Ideal bullet Performance
[Re: Cleric]
#7216358
07/05/18 02:11 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 803
Russ79
Tracker
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Tracker
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I want them to drop where they are standing...I bet 98% of the deer I have shot have dropped in their tracks and the other 2% didn't go but a few yards.
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Re: Ideal bullet Performance
[Re: Russ79]
#7216360
07/05/18 02:15 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,083
J.G.
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I want them to drop where they are standing...I bet 98% of the deer I have shot have dropped in their tracks and the other 2% didn't go but a few yards. Whitetail each year I am only on a doe hunt. Also went on a cow elk hunt last year. 3 whitetail and one cow elk, were shot in the brainstem. That flips the main breaker, and they fall straight to the ground.
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Re: Ideal bullet Performance
[Re: Cleric]
#7216367
07/05/18 02:26 PM
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,809
Cleric
OP
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OP
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Interesting thoughts....
How about another question: What percentage of deer in Texas when they are killled A) dead where they were standing B) dead within 10yards C) dead beyond 10 yards
I would say A) 10% B) 60% C) 30%
But that’s just gut feeling
Last edited by Cleric; 07/05/18 02:26 PM.
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Re: Ideal bullet Performance
[Re: Cleric]
#7216385
07/05/18 02:48 PM
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 5,900
Jgraider
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
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My experience says deer that drop where they stand are most often (by far) impacted by a CNS shot. Lung shot deer tend to run off some distance, depending on the bullet used. I personally like to shoot through both shoulders if possible.
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Re: Ideal bullet Performance
[Re: Cleric]
#7216404
07/05/18 03:24 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 35,089
Brother in-law
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I don’t shoot animals for the sake of saving meat. I want to anchor that animal where it stood. I don’t track but I get to help track many and they all are the meat saving attitude..
I like vmaxes and Berger vld.
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Re: Ideal bullet Performance
[Re: Cleric]
#7216671
07/05/18 10:12 PM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 478
txhuntingguide
Bird Dog
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I taught my wife and all 3 kids to shoot point of the shoulder. They never run. Ever. Any bullet will work with this shot. I shoot what I am most confident in. I reload exclusively Nosler BT and Accubond. Both 180's shoot the same spot. We are MLD with ton's of hogs to shoot. 60+ animals a yr and we find them all. 95% DRT. It's bullet placement/Accuracy not performance in my opinion.
Life is a Highway. Don't take the wrong road twice. Take your time and enjoy it. Teach, love and support your family. Hoyt Spyder Turbo Gold Tip Velocities HHA single pin, Ultra Rest 100 gr. Grim Reapers
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Re: Ideal bullet Performance
[Re: Cleric]
#7216679
07/05/18 10:26 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 14,948
don k
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Ideal bullet performance happens when your shot is good. You can have the best bullet made and unless it is a 50 BMG in the belly it doesn't matter.
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Re: Ideal bullet Performance
[Re: Cleric]
#7217623
07/06/18 11:56 PM
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,809
Cleric
OP
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OP
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50 cal will suck a deer’s eyes out just passing near it
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Re: Ideal bullet Performance
[Re: Cleric]
#7217791
07/07/18 03:48 AM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 8,217
Double Naught Spy
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50 cal will suck a deer’s eyes out just passing near it Only in the mind of a crazy man!
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Re: Ideal bullet Performance
[Re: Cleric]
#7217950
07/07/18 01:56 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,422
jeffbird
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Placement and the ability to penetrate reliably are what matter.
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Re: Ideal bullet Performance
[Re: jeffbird]
#7217955
07/07/18 02:07 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,900
JJH
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Placement and the ability to penetrate reliably are what matter. not entirely. A well placed FMJ will penetrate reliably but may pencil through with little tissue damage, resulting in a LONG and difficult trailing job
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Re: Ideal bullet Performance
[Re: Cleric]
#7217977
07/07/18 02:35 PM
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,102
Bbear
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On the lease I had in Llano county the landowner wanted all hogs shot. It was even in our lease agreement. After putting several into the freezer, I went to fmj 223 ammo. Put one through the lungs and let them run off into the brush. Landowner was pleased that they were dead. BUT, when shooting for the freezer, I wanted expansion and complete pass-through. DRT was preferred and most animals shot seemed to do that. The few times the shot either veered off or I didn't do my part, the blood trail was easier to follow and most didn't go more than 20 yards.
My preferred tracking job has always been 3 feet straight down.
[IMG][/IMG]
Pay it forward - Kids are the future.
Rifles are similar to boats and young women...there's no end to how much money you can pour into them without making them any more useful.
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Re: Ideal bullet Performance
[Re: Cleric]
#7218023
07/07/18 03:50 PM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 32,442
kmon11
junior
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junior
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I agree with what I read years ago from John Nosler. He wanted a bullet that would open reliably, loose 30-40% of its weight in the form of secondary projectiles after opening then retain enough weight to open a good hole on the other side.
Another guy some of you might know or have read some of his writing summed it up pretty well for the 7mm-08 and could be said for many other cartridges and their approproate weight bullets. Put a Nosler partition through the vitals of a buck and all his desire to escape goes out the other side.
lf the saying "Liar, Liar your pants on fire" were true Mainstream news might be fun to watch
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Re: Ideal bullet Performance
[Re: Cleric]
#7218348
07/08/18 12:07 AM
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Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 728
TxHunter80
Tracker
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I also prefer the bullet to shed a little weight but still exit. I like the accubond, partition, and sciracco. I have used the ttsx/etip a good bit and they work just fine without shedding any weight. I just shoot at least one shoulder on whitetail size game.
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Re: Ideal bullet Performance
[Re: txhuntingguide]
#7218384
07/08/18 01:16 AM
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 552
gollygee
Tracker
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I taught my wife and all 3 kids to shoot point of the shoulder. They never run. Ever. Any bullet will work with this shot. I shoot what I am most confident in. I reload exclusively Nosler BT and Accubond. Both 180's shoot the same spot. We are MLD with ton's of hogs to shoot. 60+ animals a yr and we find them all. 95% DRT. It's bullet placement/Accuracy not performance in my opinion. The members on our lease do not shoot young bucks. Mature bucks are shot in the shoulder, almost anything will work fine. If you want meat shoot a doe in the ear. We have (lots of) hogs. Sometimes a twofer is available so a heavier, stronger bullet is nice. Nothing beats horsepower, shoot the most powerful caliber you are comfortable with. Everything will work out great.
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Re: Ideal bullet Performance
[Re: Cleric]
#7219009
07/09/18 12:15 AM
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 6,278
onlysmith&wesson
THF Trophy Hunter
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I call it "high shoulder" on the deer I shoot. I do it with a 165 gr., .308, 2840 mv, Hornady SST bullet. I hit them below the spine in the area where there is a high concentration of arteries, one of which is the lower carotid. This is about a 4-5" space for this bullet to damage 2-3 major arteries, the kinetic energy causing enough hydrostatic shock to the brain and heart at the same time that they die instantly. With or without an exit, blood loss is huge. Growing up, I was taught the typical shoulder shot. I looked for a lot of deer. 30 years ago, by accident I hit one as described above, "high". DRT. Since then, I do it on purpose.
An unethical shot is one you take, that you know you shouldn't.
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Re: Ideal bullet Performance
[Re: BluffGruff]
#7219756
07/09/18 08:23 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,907
ChadTRG42
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You don't need expansion with the high-shoulder shot.
But,
I have recently switched from Accubonds (several instances of bullet fragmentation in antelope without exit) in favor of Barnes LRXs. Lead poisoning is real, which is why I chose the all copper option. If I'm going to feed ground meat to my kid (soon to be kids), I don't want to drop their IQ or cause any of the other ill effects of excessive lead exposure. Otherwise, the Nosler Partition is really hard to beat, and I killed 50 whitetails and a bunch of other stuff with that bullet out to 300 yards.
A note on performance. I hit a 24 inch steel plate at 1000 yards with 180gr LRXs out of my 300 Win Mag 7 of 10 shots. Barnes doesn't make a 180 grain 30 cal LRX. They make a 175 grain. But a 24" plate at 1000 yards is a pretty big plate. That's 2.5 MOA in size. The solid copper bullets do have less shock than a same weight lead bullet. Lead opens up easier and transfers more energy into the target. That's why they work better.
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Re: Ideal bullet Performance
[Re: Cleric]
#7219771
07/09/18 08:40 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,907
ChadTRG42
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There are many schools of thought on this topic. When talking to customers about bullet options, I ask this exact question. "Do you want the bullet to dump all it's energy into the animal, or do you want an exit on the other side?" Each caliber (300 Win Mag vs a 300 blk out), bullet weight and speed are big factors for each one. If you like to dump all the bullets energy into the target, then a softer bullet, or a bullet designed to expand easily would be a good choice. Berger Hunting VLD's are one of the best for this. They open up and fragment easily, and make a MASSIVE wound channel. I load ammo for a few TV shows, and they want their animals to immediately drop after being hit. We went to a 190 Berger VLD-H at 3050 fps, and it's like Thor's hammer. They drop elk, whitetail and mulies in their tracks with it. They don't care about the meat, just anchoring them where they stand. They are pleased. Nosler Ballistic Tips are also known for dramatic expansion. A lot of you standard cup and core bullets (standard soft points) also are like this.
Other hunters want full penetration, or close to it. A good bonded bullet or tough lead bullet on the heavier side for caliber works well. One of my favorites is a Nosler Accubond. It's a very good bullet. The new ELD-X from Hornady have been doing very well on penetration and expansion. The ELD-X is a controlled expansion bullet with the bullet jacket tapering thicker the lower on the bullet you go. The 200, 212 and 220 ELD-X bullet have been freakin' awesome in 300 Win Mag's. One customer shot a large mule deer at a lasered 640 yards with a 212 ELD-X and had tennis ball size exit wounds with massive trauma. I like that bullet!
I've never been a fan of the Barnes solid copper bullets, as well as a lot of customers. I load and shoot a lot of them. But they do not transfer energy like a lead bullet does. They are great at penetration. You will get 1.5 times expansion (given enough impact speed) and often full penetration. You get full penetration because less energy is used to transfer to the animal.
But, over all, shot placement is #1. I know of many shooters that use standard Sierra MatchKings and BTHP bullets for culling animals out up to elk size. Yes, the bullet performance is less predictable, but a well placed shot with the right round will do the job just fine.
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Re: Ideal bullet Performance
[Re: Cleric]
#7220033
07/10/18 12:50 AM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 833
Sq2 hunter
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Re: Ideal bullet Performance
[Re: Cleric]
#7220068
07/10/18 01:31 AM
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Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 6,578
Wburke2010
THF Trophy Hunter
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In my 30-06 I have always been a fan of Nosler partitions. They just plain work for me. When I was shooting my 243 it was Berger hybrids at 3050 FPS did the job no problem. When I was shooting my 284 Winchester it was hornady amax. No problems with it either. All animals were either drt or within 20 yards. To me bullet placement has a lot to do with it.
MW Ranch Services 903-303-4523 Metal buildings, welding, equipment repair, dirt work
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Re: Ideal bullet Performance
[Re: onlysmith&wesson]
#7220070
07/10/18 01:31 AM
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 13,591
1860.colt
emoji colt.45
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I call it "high shoulder" on the deer I shoot. I do it with a 165 gr., .308, 2840 mv, Hornady SST bullet. I hit them below the spine in the area where there is a high concentration of arteries, one of which is the lower carotid. This is about a 4-5" space for this bullet to damage 2-3 major arteries, the kinetic energy causing enough hydrostatic shock to the brain and heart at the same time that they die instantly. With or without an exit, blood loss is huge. Growing up, I was taught the typical shoulder shot. I looked for a lot of deer. 30 years ago, by accident I hit one as described above, "high". DRT. Since then, I do it on purpose. shot placement. Usualy go for the heart lung area, archery shot. Bigger area for error. Target shooting is one thing, they dont move. Have lost a deer or two, but always, always put forth my best efforts to recover. Some said take neck shot, yet it smaller area for error. Have blown out lungs & heart, & deer ran. Spending next day trying ta recover instead of hunting. Never had a deer drop in tracks. In different thread, had mentioned practicing tracking blood trail. Having a buddy make mock trail using ketchup then tring to trace it. Back in day, it was hunters responcability ta do his best ta retreave animal, fence held no boundry. Had talked ta hunters on ajoining lease that did hunt fence line. It thar side, explained were our stands were, & i walked that fence line ta go to my sons syand, his was oppiset direction ruffly 100yrds in. Told em if they did hit deer & it jumped fence, drive around ta camp & we would help trail. Tis how we did it up north, work with each other. You got digram of area ?
i'm postaddic
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Re: Ideal bullet Performance
[Re: Cleric]
#7220346
07/10/18 12:10 PM
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 6,278
onlysmith&wesson
THF Trophy Hunter
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Google it. Look for a diagram of a mature buck with his head up. Go straight up from the leading edge of front leg, and stop about 5-6 inches from the top of his back. For me, this what I refer to as high shoulder. You'll see nerves and the arteries I mentioned. The wound channel from the SST bullet I mentioned takes out all of this. As a very young hunter, my dad had me shooting much lower and back from the line I'm on now.
An unethical shot is one you take, that you know you shouldn't.
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Re: Ideal bullet Performance
[Re: onlysmith&wesson]
#7220359
07/10/18 12:33 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,083
J.G.
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Google it. Look for a diagram of a mature buck with his head up. Go straight up from the leading edge of front leg, and stop about 5-6 inches from the top of his back. For me, this what I refer to as high shoulder. You'll see nerves and the arteries I mentioned. The wound channel from the SST bullet I mentioned takes out all of this. As a very young hunter, my dad had me shooting much lower and back from the line I'm on now. Too close to "no man's land" for me. I'm heart/ lung, or brain stem.
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Re: Ideal bullet Performance
[Re: Cleric]
#7220370
07/10/18 12:48 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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Obie Juan Kenobi
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296 |
I have been shooting shoulder shots-high, point or thru both shoulders (breaking both of them if possible) for over 25 yrs now. I prefer that shot to any other when I can get it. It has put the deer on the ground where they stand and that was important to me where I was hunting. Hunting by myself on MLD, I did want to have to track an animal into thick cover then try to get it out of there by myself. I shot a ton of animals with a .270 using 130 grain Core-lokt and rarely get a pass thru when shooting in the shoulders. Majority of the times the bullet was laying under the skin in the offside shoulder. For me the ideal bullet is the one that shoots very well out of my rifles and the animal is laying where it was standing.
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?
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Re: Ideal bullet Performance
[Re: Cleric]
#7220468
07/10/18 02:23 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,907
ChadTRG42
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,907 |
I aim for the heart. I think 3 dimensional from most any angle and aim for the heart. I have had the best luck with this.
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Re: Ideal bullet Performance
[Re: 1860.colt]
#7220545
07/10/18 03:34 PM
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 6,278
onlysmith&wesson
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 6,278 |
Here's a diagram, with my POA added: I call it "high shoulder" on the deer I shoot. I do it with a 165 gr., .308, 2840 mv, Hornady SST bullet. I hit them below the spine in the area where there is a high concentration of arteries, one of which is the lower carotid. This is about a 4-5" space for this bullet to damage 2-3 major arteries, the kinetic energy causing enough hydrostatic shock to the brain and heart at the same time that they die instantly. With or without an exit, blood loss is huge. Growing up, I was taught the typical shoulder shot. I looked for a lot of deer. 30 years ago, by accident I hit one as described above, "high". DRT. Since then, I do it on purpose. shot placement. Usualy go for the heart lung area, archery shot. Bigger area for error. Target shooting is one thing, they dont move. Have lost a deer or two, but always, always put forth my best efforts to recover. Some said take neck shot, yet it smaller area for error. Have blown out lungs & heart, & deer ran. Spending next day trying ta recover instead of hunting. Never had a deer drop in tracks. In different thread, had mentioned practicing tracking blood trail. Having a buddy make mock trail using ketchup then tring to trace it. Back in day, it was hunters responcability ta do his best ta retreave animal, fence held no boundry. Had talked ta hunters on ajoining lease that did hunt fence line. It thar side, explained were our stands were, & i walked that fence line ta go to my sons syand, his was oppiset direction ruffly 100yrds in. Told em if they did hit deer & it jumped fence, drive around ta camp & we would help trail. Tis how we did it up north, work with each other. You got digram of area ?
An unethical shot is one you take, that you know you shouldn't.
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Re: Ideal bullet Performance
[Re: Cleric]
#7220576
07/10/18 03:57 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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Obie Juan Kenobi
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296 |
Here is the shots I like to take if they are broadside. Slightly quartering I aim here. This is the shot I prefer if I have more than one deer in front of me that I am going to shoot. Their butt falls out from under them and when they hit the ground they never move again. Crease of the shoulder and the neck. Shot placement is key for these shots more so that bullet type I am shooting. If I err a little you can see the bullet still is in vitals or bone. If I hit the deer where I am aiming there is no tracking and hardly ever a pass thru.
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?
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Re: Ideal bullet Performance
[Re: Cleric]
#7220581
07/10/18 04:01 PM
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 6,278
onlysmith&wesson
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 6,278 |
That'll put them on the ground.
Last edited by onlysmith&wesson; 07/10/18 04:01 PM.
An unethical shot is one you take, that you know you shouldn't.
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Re: Ideal bullet Performance
[Re: Cleric]
#7220588
07/10/18 04:05 PM
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 6,278
onlysmith&wesson
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 6,278 |
What I like about these shots, it puts the nervous system in the mix.
An unethical shot is one you take, that you know you shouldn't.
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Re: Ideal bullet Performance
[Re: Cleric]
#7220703
07/10/18 06:09 PM
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Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 6
Franck
Green Horn
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Green Horn
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 6 |
It depends on the animal size, you can change the bullet for each different size of the animal, but I prefer to use the crossbow for hunting.
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Re: Ideal bullet Performance
[Re: Cleric]
#7220768
07/10/18 06:56 PM
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Joined: May 2017
Posts: 5,157
Smokey Bear
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 5,157 |
For Texas big game, if I were choosing one bullet as a do it all, it would be a heavy for caliber bullet, give good expansion, combined with enough horsepower to expect a large exit wound. I don't use that for everything but overall it would be my preferred combination.
Smokey Bear---Lone Star State.
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Re: Ideal bullet Performance
[Re: Cleric]
#7221010
07/10/18 10:47 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,823
Drop Tine
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,823 |
Nosler Accubonds for 3000 fps and above Sierra gamekings for slower cartridges.
My 260 Remington and 140 gr gamekings makes big holes and plenty of blood to trail. Chad made up some 143 gr eld-x ammo for my creedmoore, but haven't shot any game with it yet. I figure at 2750 fps at the muzzle, it will do fine.
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Re: Ideal bullet Performance
[Re: Cleric]
#7221020
07/10/18 10:53 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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Obie Juan Kenobi
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296 |
I have used that same .270 with 130 grain Core-lokt ammo to take Mule Deer in Texas/Alberta, Red Stag in New Zealand, Axis, Sika, Aoudad, Hogs, and predators in Texas. All were shot in the same shoulder area I would shoot a WT in. What I prefer to shoot may not work for someone else and what they shoot may not work for me.
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?
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Re: Ideal bullet Performance
[Re: Smokey Bear]
#7221118
07/11/18 12:26 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,083
J.G.
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,083 |
For Texas big game, if I were choosing one bullet as a do it all, it would be a heavy for caliber bullet, give good expansion, combined with enough horsepower to expect a large exit wound. I don't use that for everything but overall it would be my preferred combination. Hornady 162 gr 7mm ELD-X. From short barrel 7mm-08, 20"-24" 7mm-08 A.I., 284 Win, 280 Rem, .280 A.I, 7mm Rem Mag. That's 2550 fps to 3100 fps, same bullet. Would do it all.
800 Yard Steel Range Precision Rifle Instruction Memberships and Classes Available
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Re: Ideal bullet Performance
[Re: stxranchman]
#7221342
07/11/18 04:03 AM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,586
ckat
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,586 |
I love that shot. Anchors them every time. Just like you said, their butt falls first, then the rest is just gravity's effect on a dead body.
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Re: Ideal bullet Performance
[Re: ckat]
#7222268
07/12/18 03:46 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,083
J.G.
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,083 |
I love that shot. Anchors them every time. Just like you said, their butt falls first, then the rest is just gravity's effect on a dead body. FMJ right between the white patches on the neck.
800 Yard Steel Range Precision Rifle Instruction Memberships and Classes Available
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Re: Ideal bullet Performance
[Re: Cleric]
#7224057
07/13/18 11:59 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,605
fouzman
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,605 |
140 gr. Sierra Game King. 7mm-08 out of 26" Hart match bbl at 2850+ fps. 228 lb live weight whitetail. 138 yards. Square through both sholders. Bullet was recovered under the skin on opposite shoulder. His butt was the first thing to hit the ground. Pretty awesome performance from a long-ago designed bullet. Also have 6-8 165 and 180 gr Swift Sciroccos recovered from heavier animals. 300 RUM. 27" bbl. Beautiful mushrooms. I'll have to try and find them. Very interesting discussion
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Re: Ideal bullet Performance
[Re: J.G.]
#7224066
07/14/18 12:23 AM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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Obie Juan Kenobi
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296 |
I love that shot. Anchors them every time. Just like you said, their butt falls first, then the rest is just gravity's effect on a dead body. FMJ right between the white patches on the neck. You mean like this?
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?
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Re: Ideal bullet Performance
[Re: Cleric]
#7224073
07/14/18 12:40 AM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 32,442
kmon11
junior
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junior
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 32,442 |
STX that is exactly why I do not like neck shots unless very close and stable rest. I have seen too many of those deer on leases where some thought a neck shot they are either DRT or a miss.
lf the saying "Liar, Liar your pants on fire" were true Mainstream news might be fun to watch
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Re: Ideal bullet Performance
[Re: stxranchman]
#7224130
07/14/18 02:21 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,083
J.G.
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,083 |
I love that shot. Anchors them every time. Just like you said, their butt falls first, then the rest is just gravity's effect on a dead body. FMJ right between the white patches on the neck. You mean like this? No. Those are misses. Resulting in suffering deer. Wish I had video of the shot I'm talking about, I've taken. Dead before they hit the ground. But that ain't your WalMart .270 with Rem Core Lokts shot.
800 Yard Steel Range Precision Rifle Instruction Memberships and Classes Available
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Re: Ideal bullet Performance
[Re: J.G.]
#7224306
07/14/18 01:18 PM
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Joined: May 2017
Posts: 5,157
Smokey Bear
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 5,157 |
For Texas big game, if I were choosing one bullet as a do it all, it would be a heavy for caliber bullet, give good expansion, combined with enough horsepower to expect a large exit wound. I don't use that for everything but overall it would be my preferred combination. Hornady 162 gr 7mm ELD-X. From short barrel 7mm-08, 20"-24" 7mm-08 A.I., 284 Win, 280 Rem, .280 A.I, 7mm Rem Mag. That's 2550 fps to 3100 fps, same bullet. Would do it all. Yup. I have done the same with a 160 SGK for a long time. When my son was young, I loaded him a lot of the 140 SGK fouzman posted for his 7-08 though. Watching him kill a lot of stuff, I came to the conclusion: out of a 7-08, inside of 300, I really like a 140. The effectiveness of the more violent upset that particular combo produces impressed me.
Last edited by Smokey Bear; 07/14/18 01:21 PM.
Smokey Bear---Lone Star State.
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Re: Ideal bullet Performance
[Re: Cleric]
#7224310
07/14/18 01:24 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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Obie Juan Kenobi
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296 |
I love that shot. Anchors them every time. Just like you said, their butt falls first, then the rest is just gravity's effect on a dead body.
FMJ right between the white patches on the neck. You mean like this? No. Those are misses. Resulting in suffering deer. Wish I had video of the shot I'm talking about, I've taken. Dead before they hit the ground. But that ain't your WalMart .270 with Rem Core Lokts shot. That was not my shot, but someone else with his rifle and ammo. The results speaks for itself no matter what he was shooting with. My cheapo shots are 100% shoulder area shots.
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?
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Re: Ideal bullet Performance
[Re: kmon11]
#7224547
07/14/18 07:30 PM
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 19,638
Pitchfork Predator
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 19,638 |
STX that is exactly why I do not like neck shots unless very close and stable rest. I have seen too many of those deer on leases where some thought a neck shot they are either DRT or a miss. Yes deer move their head around a lot. Not a good shot to take especially from long distance IMO.
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Re: Ideal bullet Performance
[Re: Cleric]
#7224633
07/14/18 09:39 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,083
J.G.
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,083 |
No. Those are misses. Resulting in suffering deer. Wish I had video of the shot I'm talking about, I've taken. Dead before they hit the ground. But that ain't your WalMart .270 with Rem Core Lokts shot. That was not my shot, but someone else with his rifle and ammo. The results speaks for itself no matter what he was shooting with. My cheapo shots are 100% shoulder area shots. I wasn't making an accusation. Lots depend on where I am placing the bullet. Distance, wind, and/or less than perfectly steady will take me off of the brain stem, and onto heart, or lungs.
800 Yard Steel Range Precision Rifle Instruction Memberships and Classes Available
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Re: Ideal bullet Performance
[Re: stxranchman]
#7224702
07/15/18 12:01 AM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 11,655
colt45-90
Texas colt45
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Texas colt45
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 11,655 |
Here is the shots I like to take if they are broadside. Slightly quartering I aim here. This is the shot I prefer if I have more than one deer in front of me that I am going to shoot. Their butt falls out from under them and when they hit the ground they never move again. Crease of the shoulder and the neck. Shot placement is key for these shots more so that bullet type I am shooting. If I err a little you can see the bullet still is in vitals or bone. If I hit the deer where I am aiming there is no tracking and hardly ever a pass thru. excellent
hold on Newt, we got a runaway
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Re: Ideal bullet Performance
[Re: stxranchman]
#7224703
07/15/18 12:02 AM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 11,655
colt45-90
Texas colt45
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Texas colt45
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 11,655 |
I have used that same .270 with 130 grain Core-lokt ammo to take Mule Deer in Texas/Alberta, Red Stag in New Zealand, Axis, Sika, Aoudad, Hogs, and predators in Texas. All were shot in the same shoulder area I would shoot a WT in. What I prefer to shoot may not work for someone else and what they shoot may not work for me.
hold on Newt, we got a runaway
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Re: Ideal bullet Performance
[Re: Cleric]
#7224747
07/15/18 01:26 AM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 32,601
sig226fan (Rguns.com)
duck & cover
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duck & cover
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 32,601 |
Sierra Game Kings, 165 gr 308 from Federal or Chad, thru the shoulders on trophies, thru the heart on meat, I don't like to track anything.
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Re: Ideal bullet Performance
[Re: Cleric]
#7226733
07/17/18 04:13 AM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,071
sprigsss
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,071 |
I love pot roasting a whole shoulder when wife and kids make a trip home. I eat on it for a week.
I enjoy the shoulders more than I do the back straps. If I hit a deer in the shoulder, it was a bad shot.
I’ve seen several deer with huge holes through their shoulder blades, anchored but very much alive.
My goal isn’t to anchor a deer right there, but for them to die as quickly as possible.
My son and I will shoot for vitals only.
Very few deer actually hit in vitals are lost.
Last edited by sprigsss; 07/17/18 04:14 AM.
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Re: Ideal bullet Performance
[Re: ChadTRG42]
#7226763
07/17/18 07:36 AM
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Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 5
BluffGruff
Green Horn
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Green Horn
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 5 |
You don't need expansion with the high-shoulder shot.
But,
I have recently switched from Accubonds (several instances of bullet fragmentation in antelope without exit) in favor of Barnes LRXs. Lead poisoning is real, which is why I chose the all copper option. If I'm going to feed ground meat to my kid (soon to be kids), I don't want to drop their IQ or cause any of the other ill effects of excessive lead exposure. Otherwise, the Nosler Partition is really hard to beat, and I killed 50 whitetails and a bunch of other stuff with that bullet out to 300 yards.
A note on performance. I hit a 24 inch steel plate at 1000 yards with 180gr LRXs out of my 300 Win Mag 7 of 10 shots. Barnes doesn't make a 180 grain 30 cal LRX. They make a 175 grain. But a 24" plate at 1000 yards is a pretty big plate. That's 2.5 MOA in size. The solid copper bullets do have less shock than a same weight lead bullet. Lead opens up easier and transfers more energy into the target. That's why they work better. You're right, it's 175gr. I would love to see how many people currently on this thread can hit a 24" circle at 1000 yards ONCE in 10 shots with their best set-up. Also, it isn't 2.5MOA, it's closer to 2.3MOA. "Easier" expansion actually doesn't matter, 100% energy transfer if the bullet stops, if it passes through, something less, but even that doesn't matter if you pass through the spinal cord. if you are a smart a**, I will return in kind, thanks for playing.
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Re: Ideal bullet Performance
[Re: BluffGruff]
#7226786
07/17/18 10:56 AM
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 6,278
onlysmith&wesson
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 6,278 |
Smart A--? I don't see it. You don't need expansion with the high-shoulder shot.
But,
I have recently switched from Accubonds (several instances of bullet fragmentation in antelope without exit) in favor of Barnes LRXs. Lead poisoning is real, which is why I chose the all copper option. If I'm going to feed ground meat to my kid (soon to be kids), I don't want to drop their IQ or cause any of the other ill effects of excessive lead exposure. Otherwise, the Nosler Partition is really hard to beat, and I killed 50 whitetails and a bunch of other stuff with that bullet out to 300 yards.
A note on performance. I hit a 24 inch steel plate at 1000 yards with 180gr LRXs out of my 300 Win Mag 7 of 10 shots. Barnes doesn't make a 180 grain 30 cal LRX. They make a 175 grain. But a 24" plate at 1000 yards is a pretty big plate. That's 2.5 MOA in size. The solid copper bullets do have less shock than a same weight lead bullet. Lead opens up easier and transfers more energy into the target. That's why they work better. You're right, it's 175gr. I would love to see how many people currently on this thread can hit a 24" circle at 1000 yards ONCE in 10 shots with their best set-up. Also, it isn't 2.5MOA, it's closer to 2.3MOA. "Easier" expansion actually doesn't matter, 100% energy transfer if the bullet stops, if it passes through, something less, but even that doesn't matter if you pass through the spinal cord. if you are a smart a**, I will return in kind, thanks for playing.
An unethical shot is one you take, that you know you shouldn't.
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