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#7214173 - 07/02/18 06:02 PM 21st centuy seating dies
spg Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 08/11/13
Posts: 1612
Anyone using the 21st century seating dies ($275)? To order you have to send 3 fired resized brass and the specific bullet to them so they can machine it from scratch. Thinking of trying a set but they're higher than GP.

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#7214201 - 07/02/18 06:52 PM Re: 21st centuy seating dies [Re: spg]
dee Online   content
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Registered: 04/10/10
Posts: 5360
Loc: Red River way
Pretty sure my shooting skills don't require dies like that. My redding dies do great. Oal is solid and little to no runout.
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#7214209 - 07/02/18 07:06 PM Re: 21st centuy seating dies [Re: spg]
spg Offline
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Registered: 08/11/13
Posts: 1612
My OCD gets the best of me sometimes. I'm using whidden dies which aren't cheap either, probably no better than redding.

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#7214220 - 07/02/18 07:12 PM Re: 21st centuy seating dies [Re: spg]
dee Online   content
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 04/10/10
Posts: 5360
Loc: Red River way
Eh. Which whidden's? I've heard a lot of hit and miss with their seaters. I can't personally say I have experience with them as I've only used their sizing die.
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#7214256 - 07/02/18 07:45 PM Re: 21st centuy seating dies [Re: dee]
spg Offline
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Registered: 08/11/13
Posts: 1612
FL bushing sizing die and the seating die. Never had and issue with the seating die.

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#7214276 - 07/02/18 08:06 PM Re: 21st centuy seating dies [Re: spg]
FiremanJG Offline
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Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 25148
Loc: Wolfe City, TX
Are the seating dies you're using not working?

No offense, I don't mean this rude. There's a mindset some people get into of chasing gear, just because it is new. I know plenty of guys that buy a scope each year, right after SHOT. Then in several months sell it (at a loss) and get something else.

I have no doubt there are some hand loaders, using 50 year old equipment that are making ammo better than some of the new guys using the "latest and greatest".
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#7214344 - 07/02/18 09:42 PM Re: 21st centuy seating dies [Re: FiremanJG]
spg Offline
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Registered: 08/11/13
Posts: 1612
Fire away Fireman, I got thick skin.........Depends on what you call problems, there is acute run out with the whidden seating die but not enough for the occasional hand loader to stress over. I know two people I absolutely trust that use Wilson seating dies in a arbor press the claim there is zero run out, the 21st century look similar or are the same except there custom made for your brass and bullet. I was curious if anyone used them yet to get some reviews/feedback. I'm usually not a impulse buyer but guilty of researching the hell out of something before I buy it.

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#7214367 - 07/02/18 10:07 PM Re: 21st centuy seating dies [Re: spg]
Judd Offline


Registered: 01/22/09
Posts: 11923
Loc: Wylie, TX
Only way I'd spend that type of dough on is Newlon, they are supposed to be the best.

If you like 21st Century buy the hydraulic arbor press and Wilson dies...they make blanks so you run your chamber reamer in them...then they are all cut by the same thing.

I can attest, your buddies are right.
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#7214502 - 07/03/18 08:05 AM Re: 21st centuy seating dies [Re: spg]
garyrapp55 Offline
Tracker

Registered: 12/26/11
Posts: 758
Loc: Ft. Worth
I wasn't going to comment due to my limited experience but I'll say this, I wouldn't want to spend that $ and be limited to that bullet. I'm not sure how they customize to a specific bullet anyway. Why can't it seat others? I do like the idea of a competition seater with the micrometer on top but I can get one for a lot less than $275. That said, now that I got the seating stem in the right place and locked tight for my newest rifle, adjust-ability is worthless unless I change bullets.

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#7214510 - 07/03/18 08:11 AM Re: 21st centuy seating dies [Re: spg]
FiremanJG Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 25148
Loc: Wolfe City, TX
Originally Posted By: spg
Fire away Fireman, I got thick skin.........Depends on what you call problems, there is acute run out with the whidden seating die but not enough for the occasional hand loader to stress over. I know two people I absolutely trust that use Wilson seating dies in a arbor press the claim there is zero run out, the 21st century look similar or are the same except there custom made for your brass and bullet. I was curious if anyone used them yet to get some reviews/feedback. I'm usually not a impulse buyer but guilty of researching the hell out of something before I buy it.


Have you tried, seating completely, rotate the brass 180° or less, then seat again? I have never measured run-out. I don't want to know, my ammo shoots great.

Researching the hell out of something, before buying is what smart, responsible adults do. I won't ever fault someone for that.
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#7214584 - 07/03/18 10:00 AM Re: 21st centuy seating dies [Re: spg]
jeffbird Offline


Registered: 03/09/09
Posts: 3086
The vast majority of my ammo usually is 0.003" or less, and when I really take time and effort to focus on ammo to produce the best I can, it is 0.001" or less. I use RCBS Rockchuckers. The newest press is 15 years old, the oldest is 40+ years old. Forster non-bushing sizing and the Benchrest seater dies are my first choice, but also have a couple of Redding non-bushing dies that work well. The bushing dies never could consistently reduce runout down to the level the non-bushing dies can for me. Forster non-bushing dies seem to produce better results as a general rule. I have never had a bad Forster die. Also Forster's decapper produces lower runout than the Redding decapper as a general rule.

Dies are 1/3 of the equation in reducing runout and cannot cure issues that are created by the press or the brass prep.

For a press such as a RCBS or similar single stage, remove the wire on the ram that retains the shellholder. The shellholder does not need anything to stay in place and allowing it to free float can significantly reduce runout. The next point that benefits from attention is the die/press interface. Create a gasket between the lock ring and the top of the press. A couple of pieces of clear packing tape with the hole cutout in the middle works well and is quick, cheap, and easy. Last, when putting the die in, remove the decapping assembly from the die. If it is the first time to adjust the die, loosen the lock ring and back it up out of the way so it will not make contact. Then, put a washer or coin on top of the shellholder. Screw the die down to according to the manufacturer instructions. Then gently raise the ram so that the washer or coin puts gentle upward pressure on the die, then screw the lock ring down securely against the gasket - secure does not mean lots of pressure, just snug it down. Lube a fired case and run the fired shell into the die without the decapping assembly. Check the runout on the case neck. Adjusting and tightening the die is a real point for runout gremlins to cause trouble and can take several tries before the die is in the press straight. Seriously, if runout is still occurring at this point, back the die out a turn or two and try again, and keep trying for several attempts. I have spent an hour at this point until the runout was down to less than 0.001". Once the die is correctly adjusted and the lock ring is in place, then the next time is usually quicker, but this step is critical to reducing runout.

Once the runout is down to acceptable levels without the decapping assembly, then put the decapping assembly in, but leave it loose, not tight in the die. I slip an auto a/c o-ring over the decapping assembly so that there is a gasket between the top of the die and the bottom of the nut that holds the decapping assembly. The ability for the decapping assembly to free float helps reduce runout. The Forster decapper causes less runout for me than Redding decappers.

Before dropping a lot of money on more custom dies, it might be worth giving the Forster dies a try. Go for the basic resizing die and the Benchrest seater.

Then brass prep is the other 1/3 of the equation. The amount of time I spend on brass prep is substantial and a thread unto itself.

Forster presses have a good reputation for reducing runout without as much work as the RCBS. If I ever buy another press, Forster would be the next one.

I have Wilson seater dies and an arbor press and it is no better than the Forster dies on the RCBS. Now I only use it at the range to adjust seating depth. Just an observation that kind of fits with the discussion.

Hope some of the helps you and/or others.
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#7214594 - 07/03/18 10:21 AM Re: 21st centuy seating dies [Re: spg]
OkieDokie Offline
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Registered: 01/28/08
Posts: 1145
Loc: southern OK
Thanks Jeff Bird. That's some very interesting info. up Lots to think about. I have an RCBS Press and didn't think about letting the shell holder float on ram but that makes sense.
I don't even have a way of measuring run out and like Fireman I probably don't want to go there as long as it's shooting well.
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#7214645 - 07/03/18 11:17 AM Re: 21st centuy seating dies [Re: spg]
jeffbird Offline


Registered: 03/09/09
Posts: 3086
You're welcome.
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#7215404 - 07/03/18 11:03 PM Re: 21st centuy seating dies [Re: jeffbird]
spg Offline
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Registered: 08/11/13
Posts: 1612
I concur..........I use a FL bushing die and had some issues with the bushing I'd been using over 500+ rounds which isn't a lot. It started leaving striations on the necks, the entire neck (360deg) so I ordered a new one and the striations stopped but the same size new bushing wasn't sizing the neck enough. I sent it back to Whidden and they sent me another in the same size and I bought one a size smaller, the 2nd exact size bushing I got back worked. The original got scratched somehow however, I inspected it under a magnified glass and still couldn't see any scratches. Next time I have an issue with the bushing I'm buying a regular FL die.

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#7215887 - 07/04/18 02:58 PM Re: 21st centuy seating dies [Re: spg]
DStroud Offline
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Registered: 11/02/11
Posts: 1775
Loc: In the Right lane
Yep have a couple of bushing die sets but between donuts and no better results than FL dies I go the custom FL die now.... rather have a Lee collet than a bushing die.
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