Main Menu
Advertisement
Affiliates
Advertisement
Newest Members
LuckyDigits713, motleyfishing, 300wsm, Kperry, Mcpete
63763 Registered Users
Top Posters
dogcatcher 88022
stxranchman 52956
bill oxner 47211
RKHarm24 44577
rifleman 44375
BOBO the Clown 43644
BMD 40939
Big Orn 37484
SnakeWrangler 36444
txshntr 35229
facebook
Forum Stats
63763 Members
45 Forums
416788 Topics
6042070 Posts

Max Online: 16728 @ 03/25/12 08:51 AM
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5 >
Topic Options
#7210088 - 06/27/18 02:32 PM My rifle doesn't like this bullet!!!
ChadTRG42 Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 13029
Loc: Lewisville, TX
Ok, so you are a little correct, and 100% wrong at the same time. I have heard this MANY times from shooters. Yes, you are correct because the crappy factory ammo you are currently shooting, your rifle does not shoot it well with this particular bullet. Now, it does NOT mean that your rifle dislikes this bullet!!!! bang What it does not like is the load used with that bullet. Meaning the powder and powder charge (often very large powder variation inside) loaded with that bullet.

Now, I can take the same exact bullet and load it in the sweet spot with a match grade powder and that same bullet will shoot very good. I have done this MANY times. Recently I had a customer who tried several different factory ammo options in his 300 Win Mag with a 180 grain Accubond. He really wanted to shoot the 180 AB. He brought the rifle to me and said don't shoot this bullet, my rifle doesn't like this bullet. bang I repeated what I just wrote. I explained to him if that is the bullet you want to shoot, then let me load this bullet for you. When I was done with the load work up, the rifle shot freakin' great with the 180 Accubond.

So again today, a guy wants some match grade 270 Win ammo for an upcoming elk hunt. I recommend the 140 Accubond (AB) (among other bullets), but he tells me his gun doesn't like the AB. bang No. Not correct!

So please, for the love of things Holy.... Just because your rifle doesn't shoot well with one bullet, does not mean that your rifle does not like that bullet. Now, I feel better! laugh



_________________________

Custom and Precision Ammunition!!
www.DallasReloads.com
Type 01 and Type 06 FFL

Top
#7210104 - 06/27/18 02:38 PM Re: My rifle doesn't like this bullet!!! [Re: ChadTRG42]
FiremanJG Online   content
THF Celebrity

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 25190
Loc: Wolfe City, TX
My 6.5 Creedmore loves Hornady ballistic tips.
_________________________

800 Yard Steel Range
Precision Rifle Instruction
Memberships and Classes Available

Top
#7210107 - 06/27/18 02:40 PM Re: My rifle doesn't like this bullet!!! [Re: ChadTRG42]
scottfromdallas Offline
Tracker

Registered: 06/23/15
Posts: 941
Loc: TX
Agree with only one caveat being twist rate.
_________________________
Scott

Top
#7210138 - 06/27/18 03:13 PM Re: My rifle doesn't like this bullet!!! [Re: ChadTRG42]
bholt Offline
Tracker

Registered: 04/28/06
Posts: 745
Loc: Georgetown,TX
So as some one who doesn't reload why does one gun "like" some ammo and another one doesn't. I'm not trying to get too technical just wondering.

Top
#7210156 - 06/27/18 03:24 PM Re: My rifle doesn't like this bullet!!! [Re: bholt]
ChadTRG42 Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 13029
Loc: Lewisville, TX
Originally Posted By: bholt
So as some one who doesn't reload why does one gun "like" some ammo and another one doesn't. I'm not trying to get too technical just wondering.


It's a good question. When I work up a load in a rifle, I'm tuning the ammo the barrel harmonics. For example, here's a target from a 300 Norma Mag I shot the other day. This was shot at either 200 or 300 yards, I can't remember. You can see that Loads A, B, C, and D didn't shoot all that great. (Load A did ok, with one round out, and Load D did ok with one round out.) But Load E shot nice and tight with a 13 fps ES. ES is extreme spread, which is the difference between the highest and lowest velocity of that load. Go one load up, Load F, and groups open up again. When you have good ammo that is loaded to the sweet spot and the powder charges are very consistent (to within .02 grains), the ammo will shoot very well. And these loads have a .3 or .4 grain difference between each test load. And all these loads were match grade loaded to tight tolerances. The rifle seemed to like only a few of them.

It's easy to get a rifle to not shoot well, even a high-end rifle. Often times factory ammo has very large variations in their powder charges inside the case. I have pulled enough factory bullets out and weighed their powder charges and seen as high as 2.2 grains variation on about 30 rounds. 2.2 grains!!! In my test loads on that 300 Norma, I'm varying each load by about .4 grains. I'm covering an area in 2.4 grains of powder charge variation with that bullet. I've seen factory ammo as high as 2.2 grains in a few rounds! It's crazy bad. Also, factory ammo has their bullets seated deep in the case to fit and feed out of every firearm chambered in that round. I'm loading for just one, and can seat the bullet where I want to optimize the accuracy. Also the ammo could be out of the barrel harmonics and your rifle just not like particular load. If I were shooting Load F in that rifle, groups wouldn't be all that great.


_________________________

Custom and Precision Ammunition!!
www.DallasReloads.com
Type 01 and Type 06 FFL

Top
#7210179 - 06/27/18 03:41 PM Re: My rifle doesn't like this bullet!!! [Re: FiremanJG]
ChadTRG42 Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 13029
Loc: Lewisville, TX
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
My 6.5 Creedmore loves Hornady ballistic tips.


I wish I could post up some profanity laced pictures to you!!! LOL! lol444
_________________________

Custom and Precision Ammunition!!
www.DallasReloads.com
Type 01 and Type 06 FFL

Top
#7210211 - 06/27/18 04:16 PM Re: My rifle doesn't like this bullet!!! [Re: ChadTRG42]
Pig_Popper Online   content
Pro Tracker

Registered: 08/16/15
Posts: 1634
Loc: Fort Worth
Iíll add another caveat -

Pulled bullets bought from bulk resellers, I donít know what it is about the 150 grain Speer Deepcurls I bought for my 270AR but it definitely doesnít like the bullet

I tried 4 or 5 different powders and 2 different primers and could never get it to group less than 1.5Ē on 5 shot groups, nothing consistent.

Loaded up some 140 gr Berger VLDs instead and sub MOA it is....
_________________________
I smell Bacon

Top
#7210244 - 06/27/18 04:56 PM Re: My rifle doesn't like this bullet!!! [Re: ChadTRG42]
GLC Online   content


Registered: 02/25/09
Posts: 4964
Loc: BenBrook Texas
I would have to say that some bullets are "easier" to tune to a barrel than others, just saying. I will stop there.
_________________________


Top
#7210266 - 06/27/18 05:28 PM Re: My rifle doesn't like this bullet!!! [Re: ChadTRG42]
jeffbird Offline


Registered: 03/09/09
Posts: 3100
Chad,
what do you find makes the most significant difference? Powder selection? Seating depth?

Tangent ogives sure are easier to dial in than secant ogives.

Also Barnes TTSX and most Sierras are very easy to optimize.

Berger Hybrids and Noslers also are not finicky, except for the ABLR is giving terrible results in a 338 LM.

Seems like you once suggested trying a faster powder to tighten things up, or maybe it was John Barsness?

_________________________
Professionally trained and certified concealed carry and license to carry instructor.

Top
#7210279 - 06/27/18 05:40 PM Re: My rifle doesn't like this bullet!!! [Re: ChadTRG42]
FiremanJG Online   content
THF Celebrity

Registered: 12/16/08
Posts: 25190
Loc: Wolfe City, TX
I know you asked Chad. I'll throw in my vote, as well.

#1 most important thing is the powder charge. The right charge tuned to the barrel, and a consistent reproduction of that charge.
_________________________

800 Yard Steel Range
Precision Rifle Instruction
Memberships and Classes Available

Top
#7210295 - 06/27/18 05:55 PM Re: My rifle doesn't like this bullet!!! [Re: ChadTRG42]
ChadTRG42 Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 13029
Loc: Lewisville, TX
^^ 100%. The powder charge is the most important thing in the ammo, IMO. I can vary the seating depth a little bit and it still shoot very good. But if I load ammo out of the accuracy node for that powder, it won't matter where I seat the bullet.

I'd say powder charge #1, then the correct powder, consistent brass prep, bullet type (secant or tangent ogive).

If you have a rifle that is stubborn and difficult to dial in, you can drop down to a faster burn rate powder to increase the sweet spot window. What I mean by that is, say you have a round you are loading for with a slow burning powder (on the slower side with the bullet selected) that is not shooting well. This slower burning powder will have a narrow accuracy window. If you go to a faster burning powder and drop your powder charge down some, it will open up a much larger sweet spot, or accuracy window, of where that combination will shoot well. Find the accuracy with a faster burning powder is much easier, but you generally give up some speed to do this.
_________________________

Custom and Precision Ammunition!!
www.DallasReloads.com
Type 01 and Type 06 FFL

Top
#7210296 - 06/27/18 05:55 PM Re: My rifle doesn't like this bullet!!! [Re: ChadTRG42]
vanguard Offline
Veteran Tracker

Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 3354
so your saying you can get a round nose bullet to shoot just as great as a pointed boat tail
_________________________


Top
#7210297 - 06/27/18 05:56 PM Re: My rifle doesn't like this bullet!!! [Re: GLC]
ChadTRG42 Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 13029
Loc: Lewisville, TX
Originally Posted By: GLC
I would have to say that some bullets are "easier" to tune to a barrel than others, just saying. I will stop there.


100% correct.
_________________________

Custom and Precision Ammunition!!
www.DallasReloads.com
Type 01 and Type 06 FFL

Top
#7210303 - 06/27/18 06:01 PM Re: My rifle doesn't like this bullet!!! [Re: vanguard]
ChadTRG42 Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 13029
Loc: Lewisville, TX
Originally Posted By: vanguard
so your saying you can get a round nose bullet to shoot just as great as a pointed boat tail


If both are fully stable, yes, you should. I had a customer send me a picture of a group he shot with my 6.5 Creedmoor subs with a 160 grain Hornady RN. It was one ragged hole at 100 yards. Now, these are subsonic rounds, and generally less stable than a full power load and do not shoot as well. But with a little effort to dial these loads in, they shoot very well. Increase the speed and get the bullet more stable, it should shoot very well. The only draw back is most RN bullets are not match grade. Comparing a $.20 round nose to a match grade Berger that is $.45 each, really isn't a fair comparison, though.
_________________________

Custom and Precision Ammunition!!
www.DallasReloads.com
Type 01 and Type 06 FFL

Top
#7210338 - 06/27/18 06:49 PM Re: My rifle doesn't like this bullet!!! [Re: ChadTRG42]
jeffbird Offline


Registered: 03/09/09
Posts: 3100
Fully understand the importance of charge weight and testing with ladders or OCW, but have owned some rifles that thorough testing with some bullets never worked. Then changed bullets and they were not picky at all.

Anyone worked out a good load for the 265 ABLR in 338 LM?

Been trying H1000 which usually is great with 250ís in the Lapua.
_________________________
Professionally trained and certified concealed carry and license to carry instructor.

Top
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5 >



© 2004-2018 OUTDOOR SITES NETWORK all rights reserved USA and Worldwide