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#7200143 - 06/17/18 10:58 AM Question on raising just bucks
EddieWalker Offline
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Registered: 08/06/14
Posts: 1594
Loc: Tyler, TX
I have 68 acres and I'm curious if I just raised a few whitetail bucks, no does, no breeding, would I still have to get the permits to do this like ranches need to have to breed whitetails?

My thought is to buy male fawns and see what they look like at 5 years old, then hopefully find somebody that wants to buy them for their HF ranch. Kind of a stocker operation, except keeping them longer then a cattle ranch does.

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#7200171 - 06/17/18 12:03 PM Re: Question on raising just bucks [Re: EddieWalker]
don k Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 08/27/08
Posts: 10737
Loc: Bandera, Tx








I have no idea on WT permitting. But I would think you would be better off doing that with a different species. You don't know what the permit system for WT is going to be in 5 years or if you would be able to legally sell them. The cost of a good WT fawn plus the feeding for 5 years may not be even a break even deal. I personally would do it with something like Ibex or one of the better sheep breeds. A couple of weeks ago on WB they had 3 what looked to be 2 year old Nubian Ibex males. They sold for around $2700 each which I thought was a very cheap price. You buy them and keep and feed them for another probably 2 years and you could double your money.










Edited by don k (06/17/18 12:03 PM)

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#7200186 - 06/17/18 12:22 PM Re: Question on raising just bucks [Re: EddieWalker]
EddieWalker Offline
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Registered: 08/06/14
Posts: 1594
Loc: Tyler, TX
Thank you Don, that's also something I've been thinking about. Part of it would just to be able to live and have the animals around us. Part of it would be to see if we can make a buck raising something other then cattle, which I don't have enough land for, or any desire to do. I've spoken to a few people about ibex and one of the positives to just raising stockers and not breeding is that I could actually have Nubian and Persian ibex. My thinking about going for five years is that even if I got a lesser quality whitetail buck, a five year old forked horn, or something that most would pass on, would be a very unique trophy when it's five years old.

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#7200232 - 06/17/18 01:18 PM Re: Question on raising just bucks [Re: EddieWalker]
don k Offline
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Registered: 08/27/08
Posts: 10737
Loc: Bandera, Tx
Originally Posted By: EddieWalker
Thank you Don, that's also something I've been thinking about. Part of it would just to be able to live and have the animals around us. Part of it would be to see if we can make a buck raising something other then cattle, which I don't have enough land for, or any desire to do. I've spoken to a few people about ibex and one of the positives to just raising stockers and not breeding is that I could actually have Nubian and Persian ibex. My thinking about going for five years is that even if I got a lesser quality whitetail buck, a five year old forked horn, or something that most would pass on, would be a very unique trophy when it's five years old.
The only thing that hurts you on getting stockers is your location. Down here most of the animals on WB are in this area. Plus Raz has an auction once a month and the YO twice a year. I also used to raise cattle. I found I could make a heck of a lot more money raising Ibex than I ever did on cattle. The most important thing when raising stockers wether it be cattle or Ibex or anything else is study what good animals look like. It doesn't cost any more to feed a good animal than it does an inferior one. But the good one will bring a lot more money in the end.

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#7200293 - 06/17/18 02:24 PM Re: Question on raising just bucks [Re: EddieWalker]
Aaron-Ibex Offline
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Registered: 05/10/12
Posts: 1244
Loc: Texas
all the hustle of owning whitetail will still apply. when are you going to grab some of these billies iíve got eddie?!? smile


Edited by Aaron-Ibex (06/17/18 02:25 PM)
_________________________
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903-271-3875
www.texasibex.com

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#7200423 - 06/17/18 05:08 PM Re: Question on raising just bucks [Re: Aaron-Ibex]
therancher Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 07/09/13
Posts: 6584
Loc: Mountain Home, Uvalde, and Big...
You could buy whitetail with a simple triple t permit. But you couldnít live sell any without a breeders permit.

Getting into anything with whitetail is a crapshoot now thanks to our tpwdís cwd ignorance.


Edited by therancher (06/17/18 05:11 PM)
_________________________
Crotchety old bastidge

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#7200534 - 06/17/18 06:41 PM Re: Question on raising just bucks [Re: Aaron-Ibex]
EddieWalker Offline
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Registered: 08/06/14
Posts: 1594
Loc: Tyler, TX
Originally Posted By: Aaron-Ibex
all the hustle of owning whitetail will still apply. when are you going to grab some of these billies iíve got eddie?!? smile


You are who I was thinking of when I said Persian Ibex. Not having females would allow me to have a few of yours, and still have a few other types of goats. Maybe even Markhor!!!

Obviously I don't know what I'm doing, but at least this way I might enjoy the learning process. One thing that I've learned is that I do not want anything to do with breeding, or birthing anything except chickens.

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#7200537 - 06/17/18 06:44 PM Re: Question on raising just bucks [Re: therancher]
EddieWalker Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 08/06/14
Posts: 1594
Loc: Tyler, TX
Originally Posted By: therancher
You could buy whitetail with a simple triple t permit. But you couldnít live sell any without a breeders permit.

Getting into anything with whitetail is a crapshoot now thanks to our tpwdís cwd ignorance.


Thanks, that's what I was wondering. I think there is still money to be made on 150 to 180 class bucks with decent mass. Especially with so many breeders out there that are not able to raise all of their bucks. I'll take the ones nobody else wants and see what age does for them.

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#7200539 - 06/17/18 06:45 PM Re: Question on raising just bucks [Re: EddieWalker]
stxranchman Online   content
Obie Juan Kenobi

Registered: 08/04/10
Posts: 52975
Not sure of all the regulations these days when it comes to doing what you are wanting to do. You can buy WT bucks to turn loose on your land as long as it is HF with just a release site setup, no permit. You would not be able to catch them to sell them without the proper permits. I know they used to have a size limit on pen size in breeding facilities years ago. So to do a breeding facility you would have to permit the whole place as one facility. You would then need to renew the permit every year and test the proper amount of death losses to remain movement qualified. You would need to file paper work on herd numbers every year. The biggest issue would be if you had some bucks die and you did not get them tested for CWD you then would not be able to resell any of the remaining ones. Once you licensed the facility as a breeding operation you could not hunt them in the breeding enclosure. If you are just wanting to look at bucks and not resell them then you can buy what you want and release them inside the HF area. You could then hunt them. If you wanted to TTT them off with a permit you would have to test a % of them before you can TTT them off. The only way to test them would be by shooting some and do the CWD testing after. You could do the TTT permits to move in deer but you are going to have to get the paperwork done to move deer in. Then you would have to find a ranch willing to catch and allow you to take the bucks only. That will be the difficult part since most ranches only TTT off does. Very few ranches TTT off bucks but there are a few that do. You aren't getting the top end bucks. For what you are wanting the best thing to do would be just buy some bucks from a breeder to turn out to watch them grow.
Exotics would be easier to deal with and not nearly as many regulations today, that could change in the future. If I were going to do exotics I would key in on one species that you like and would get you money back so you could enjoy it. If it were me I would stay away from the common exotics and key in on one species that is not as common but still has an upside for sales.
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#7200542 - 06/17/18 06:47 PM Re: Question on raising just bucks [Re: don k]
EddieWalker Offline
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Registered: 08/06/14
Posts: 1594
Loc: Tyler, TX
Originally Posted By: don k
Originally Posted By: EddieWalker
Thank you Don, that's also something I've been thinking about. Part of it would just to be able to live and have the animals around us. Part of it would be to see if we can make a buck raising something other then cattle, which I don't have enough land for, or any desire to do. I've spoken to a few people about ibex and one of the positives to just raising stockers and not breeding is that I could actually have Nubian and Persian ibex. My thinking about going for five years is that even if I got a lesser quality whitetail buck, a five year old forked horn, or something that most would pass on, would be a very unique trophy when it's five years old.
The only thing that hurts you on getting stockers is your location. Down here most of the animals on WB are in this area. Plus Raz has an auction once a month and the YO twice a year. I also used to raise cattle. I found I could make a heck of a lot more money raising Ibex than I ever did on cattle. The most important thing when raising stockers wether it be cattle or Ibex or anything else is study what good animals look like. It doesn't cost any more to feed a good animal than it does an inferior one. But the good one will bring a lot more money in the end.


Thank you. I'm hoping that with a little asking around, that I'll be able to find suppliers in the Easter part of the state. I know of a few ranches that have hunts on them, and they are always looking for shooters. Hopefully it's just a matter of meeting more people and spending some time learning all that I can.

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#7200717 - 06/17/18 10:59 PM Re: Question on raising just bucks [Re: EddieWalker]
therancher Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 07/09/13
Posts: 6584
Loc: Mountain Home, Uvalde, and Big...
Originally Posted By: EddieWalker
Originally Posted By: therancher
You could buy whitetail with a simple triple t permit. But you couldnít live sell any without a breeders permit.

Getting into anything with whitetail is a crapshoot now thanks to our tpwdís cwd ignorance.


Thanks, that's what I was wondering. I think there is still money to be made on 150 to 180 class bucks with decent mass. Especially with so many breeders out there that are not able to raise all of their bucks. I'll take the ones nobody else wants and see what age does for them.


I would recommend you try to kill them on site then. If you sell them live you're opening a can of worms that is morphing daily, and potentially could wipe out your entire operation.

People are knocking each other down trying to get OUT of the whitetail live sale business. The path getting in is a ghost town.
_________________________
Crotchety old bastidge

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#7200827 - 06/18/18 07:30 AM Re: Question on raising just bucks [Re: EddieWalker]
EddieWalker Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 08/06/14
Posts: 1594
Loc: Tyler, TX
Really appreciate your advice and think that I'll follow it. I don't have anything into this other then time clearing land and making improvements. Since this would just be a hobby, avoiding as much government involvement as possible would be my number one goal. I'm also trying to avoid the Noah's Ark syndrome and not have two of everything, but that's really what I'm wanting. Lots of variety, which is how I got to thinking about not breeding, and just buying male fawns. I have plenty of time to put more thought into this. Thank you.

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#7200952 - 06/18/18 10:01 AM Re: Question on raising just bucks [Re: EddieWalker]
stxranchman Online   content
Obie Juan Kenobi

Registered: 08/04/10
Posts: 52975
One other thing to consider when getting bucks from a deer breeder is that if CWD was found in that breeders pens that it could effect you also. Lot of scenarios involving CWD if it were found in the facility you get your deer from that could also effect you down the road. Not that it is likely to happen just if it did happen it could be a problem for you.
There was an exotic breeder in the Weimer area that was raising several different types of sheep in separate pens. He had Red Sheep, Mouflon, Armenians and IIRC also had Black Buck in each of his breeding pens. He was strictly breeding to sell stockers or breeding stock.
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#7201326 - 06/18/18 03:44 PM Re: Question on raising just bucks [Re: stxranchman]
therancher Offline
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 07/09/13
Posts: 6584
Loc: Mountain Home, Uvalde, and Big...
Originally Posted By: stxranchman
One other thing to consider when getting bucks from a deer breeder is that if CWD was found in that breeders pens that it could effect you also. Lot of scenarios involving CWD if it were found in the facility you get your deer from that could also effect you down the road. Not that it is likely to happen just if it did happen it could be a problem for you.
There was an exotic breeder in the Weimer area that was raising several different types of sheep in separate pens. He had Red Sheep, Mouflon, Armenians and IIRC also had Black Buck in each of his breeding pens. He was strictly breeding to sell stockers or breeding stock.


Exactly right. And I don't believe it is as far fetched as most people think. Heck somehow CWD jumped from here to Norway... lol.

Had a group leasing my south texas place that wanted to release some bred does. I made sure they understood that if TPWD killed all the deer on the place that they would need to sign a 10 year deal to pay me full lease price even if there wasn't one deer on the place.

Eddie I know others know the high end sheep and goats much better than I do. But Blackbuck males bought as yearlings or fawns are cheap and grow fast and don't eat much. And there are no restrictions on dealing them. They aren't high dollar animals but they are consistent and cheap to raise out. Bucks only.


Edited by therancher (06/18/18 03:45 PM)
_________________________
Crotchety old bastidge

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#7201413 - 06/18/18 05:13 PM Re: Question on raising just bucks [Re: therancher]
don k Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 08/27/08
Posts: 10737
Loc: Bandera, Tx
Originally Posted By: therancher
Originally Posted By: stxranchman
One other thing to consider when getting bucks from a deer breeder is that if CWD was found in that breeders pens that it could effect you also. Lot of scenarios involving CWD if it were found in the facility you get your deer from that could also effect you down the road. Not that it is likely to happen just if it did happen it could be a problem for you.
There was an exotic breeder in the Weimer area that was raising several different types of sheep in separate pens. He had Red Sheep, Mouflon, Armenians and IIRC also had Black Buck in each of his breeding pens. He was strictly breeding to sell stockers or breeding stock.


Exactly right. And I don't believe it is as far fetched as most people think. Heck somehow CWD jumped from here to Norway... lol.

Had a group leasing my south texas place that wanted to release some bred does. I made sure they understood that if TPWD killed all the deer on the place that they would need to sign a 10 year deal to pay me full lease price even if there wasn't one deer on the place.

Eddie I know others know the high end sheep and goats much better than I do. But Blackbuck males bought as yearlings or fawns are cheap and grow fast and don't eat much. And there are no restrictions on dealing them. They aren't high dollar animals but they are consistent and cheap to raise out. Bucks only.
Very true Rancher. A lot depends on how deep he wants to get into it. BB are not expensive to be bought at a young age. But then again they do not bring a whole lot at reaching say a shootable size of around 18 inches. The difference in a 18 inch at an auction and a 18 inch to shoot is really not that much. So what would be better? Buy 18 inch and really baby them to say 23 inches or buy 6 inch yearlings and keep them until they got to 18 inches? What would bring the best return?

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