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Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing
#7177120
05/23/18 12:36 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 14,768
jeh7mmmag
OP
gramps
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OP
gramps
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 14,768 |
This hog control method could have been the ruin of lot of Quail, Dove, and other game birds, etc. Lucky it was caught in early trails
Field testing of a new feral hog control method experienced a major setback recently after nearly 200 birds were found dead. During a regular agricultural extension report to Wichita County Commissioners, extension agent David Graf reported the issue at a study underway in an undisclosed North Texas location. Hog-Gone, with active ingredient sodium nitrite, was thought to be the next great hope for feral hog control. More: https://www.timesrecordnews.com/story/ne...exas/629868002/
�Everybody needs beauty as well as bread, places to play in and pray in, where nature may heal and give strength to body and soul.� ~ John Muir
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Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing
[Re: jeh7mmmag]
#7177222
05/23/18 02:10 AM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 8,217
Double Naught Spy
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 8,217 |
Wow. They said it was safe. They said there was no way for other animals to get into the feeders.
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Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing
[Re: jeh7mmmag]
#7177287
05/23/18 03:38 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 110,788
dogcatcher
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
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That is no good, bad news and still no answer.
Combat Infantryman, the ultimate hunter where the prey shoots back. _____________"Illegitimus non carborundum est"_______________
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Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing
[Re: jeh7mmmag]
#7177301
05/23/18 03:56 AM
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,265
maximus_flavius
Veteran Tracker
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I knew it.
It's hard to poison just 1 particular animal.
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Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing
[Re: jeh7mmmag]
#7177302
05/23/18 03:58 AM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 912
DUKFVR
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 912 |
Never a fan of using any kind of poison.
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Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing
[Re: jeh7mmmag]
#7177339
05/23/18 10:24 AM
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Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 2,808
RattlesnakeDan
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And few hogs were killed by it because they won't eat the stuff. What some of us already knew would happen and mentioned earlier. Hogs are perceptive to bad situations.
Just like Jesus, sometimes you gotta kill some hogs. Lone Star Mesquite . com RattleSnake Dan's Shredding Service
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Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing
[Re: jeh7mmmag]
#7177364
05/23/18 11:45 AM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
THF Celebrity
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Dang. I was afraid of that.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing
[Re: maximus_flavius]
#7177388
05/23/18 12:19 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,262
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,262 |
I knew it.
It's hard to poison just 1 particular animal. Interesting article when they break it down. Bait crumbs outside the feeder and mainly house sparrows.
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Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing
[Re: jeh7mmmag]
#7177427
05/23/18 12:54 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 13,189
CCBIRDDOGMAN
Bird Herder
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Bird Herder
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 13,189 |
No real surprise. Was a bad idea from the start.
Haven't had it in years but never spit any out. I am a sucker for happy endings and strapped cowboys.
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Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#7177489
05/23/18 01:57 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 8,217
Double Naught Spy
THF Trophy Hunter
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I knew it.
It's hard to poison just 1 particular animal. Interesting article when they break it down. Bait crumbs outside the feeder and mainly house sparrows. After working with this product and hogs more than a decade now, how did they NOT know that hogs were sloppy eaters????? Mainly house sparrows and such were affected in this one limited test, but what happens when you move to different environmental areas? They tallied nearly 200 bird kills, but you have to wonder how many dead birds were scavenged and not tallied. How many birds managed to fly beyond the immediate area and die?
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Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing
[Re: jeh7mmmag]
#7177497
05/23/18 02:03 PM
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 4,091
CharlieCTx
Extreme Tracker
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Posts: 4,091 |
"The initial goal was to have the sodium nitrite bait registered for use with the EPA by 2020-21."
A "few" bird deaths won't stop the current EPA Administrator from approving it.
Kel-Tec RFB + Griffin Sportsman Ultra Light 300 + Pulsar Apex XQ-50 M&P-10 + AAC Cyclone Remy 700 + Leupold VX3 3.5x10x50 CDS
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Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing
[Re: jeh7mmmag]
#7177529
05/23/18 02:24 PM
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Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 2,067
mattyg06
Veteran Tracker
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Well it was within described tolerances so whats to worry about? While the number of birds taken is within the tolerances described within the environmental assessment, it is not acceptable to us as wildlife biologists,
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Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing
[Re: jeh7mmmag]
#7177540
05/23/18 02:32 PM
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,265
maximus_flavius
Veteran Tracker
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I'd rather get rid of hogs the old fashioned way, with lead poisoning.
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Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing
[Re: Double Naught Spy]
#7177550
05/23/18 02:41 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,262
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,262 |
I knew it.
It's hard to poison just 1 particular animal. Interesting article when they break it down. Bait crumbs outside the feeder and mainly house sparrows. After working with this product and hogs more than a decade now, how did they NOT know that hogs were sloppy eaters????? Mainly house sparrows and such were affected in this one limited test, but what happens when you move to different environmental areas? They tallied nearly 200 bird kills, but you have to wonder how many dead birds were scavenged and not tallied. How many birds managed to fly beyond the immediate area and die? 200 over 14 sites. Being that invasive sparrow densities are extremely high it’s not that surprising. I image thier studies areas are pretty big. Being that it killed those itty bitty birds that quickly, probably not to many fly away out of control area. Interesting study, be cool to see the results and changes.
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Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#7177662
05/23/18 04:35 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,422
jeffbird
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
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I knew it.
It's hard to poison just 1 particular animal. Interesting article when they break it down. Bait crumbs outside the feeder and mainly house sparrows. After working with this product and hogs more than a decade now, how did they NOT know that hogs were sloppy eaters????? Mainly house sparrows and such were affected in this one limited test, but what happens when you move to different environmental areas? They tallied nearly 200 bird kills, but you have to wonder how many dead birds were scavenged and not tallied. How many birds managed to fly beyond the immediate area and die? 200 over 14 sites. Being that invasive sparrow densities are extremely high it’s not that surprising. I image thier studies areas are pretty big. Being that it killed those itty bitty birds that quickly, probably not to many fly away out of control area. Interesting study, be cool to see the results and changes. Bobo, there are over 15 native species of sparrows regularly found in Texas. English House Sparrows are rarely found in natural habitat. So, the sparrows killed in this study most likely are the native species, not the introducted English House Sparrow. The native sparrows play an important role in spreading native grass and plant seeds, and are important to protect.
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Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing
[Re: jeh7mmmag]
#7177664
05/23/18 04:36 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 8,217
Double Naught Spy
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
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Still, I am not buying it. This was the first actual field testing and it produced a significant negative result. I notice that the article failed to state the number of hogs killed or methods of searching for dead birds. It says the birds were just found in the immediate feeder area. This is also a rather disturbing statement. The study found success in keeping most non-target animals out of the feeder and they also showed animals who feed off the carcasses of hogs who ingest Hog-Gone were not negatively impacted. In other words, the system isn't as hog-specific as it was designed to be. If they are still using the same setup as they were a few months ago, it involves a process of teaching the hogs how to use the feeders and then pulling bait and switch on the hogs, literally, and then killing the educated hogs. Then the user is left with a feeder living hogs don't know how to use and the process must start anew.
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Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing
[Re: jeh7mmmag]
#7177685
05/23/18 04:55 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,262
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,262 |
Bobo,
there are over 15 native species of sparrows regularly found in Texas.
English House Sparrows are rarely found in natural habitat.
So, the sparrows killed in this study most likely are the native species, not the introducted English House Sparrow.
The native sparrows play an important role in spreading native grass and plant seeds, and are important to protect.
Rarely? Seen them throughout the countryside. End of the day that’s 14 birds per site, that not what most would call an enviomental disaster, probably doesn’t even move the needle much as far as impact. Like I said be interesting to see the tweeks and all the info once published. Pointed articles with limited info on ongoing scientific studies really do both sides a disfavor. As seen in this thread already
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Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing
[Re: jeh7mmmag]
#7177706
05/23/18 05:18 PM
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 17,712
Txduckman
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
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Posts: 17,712 |
Don't mess with mother nature. This is just to appease a few folks who complained the most to the ag comm. You going to bait the whole state... Lots of money made off of hogs as well. I can only see this effective in large crop areas but that is a ton of bait and maintenance constantly.
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Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing
[Re: Txduckman]
#7177772
05/23/18 06:05 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,262
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,262 |
Don't mess with mother nature. This is just to appease a few folks who complained the most to the ag comm. You going to bait the whole state... Lots of money made off of hogs as well. I can only see this effective in large crop areas but that is a ton of bait and maintenance constantly. Don’t mess with Mother Nature Like introducing hogs... wonder who did that There is no effective solution at this time. Large crop areas are actually better suited for Aerial management practices. Gun/archery ground hunting is not effective that’s for sure. I’d like to seen them completely removed from landscape, The way they have to deliver the poison isn’t the answer, if you have to deliver it from a feeder then you can use a drop trap. Just a lazier way of doing it I do want to see the studies run thier course. Findings will be interesting
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Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#7177778
05/23/18 06:13 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,422
jeffbird
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
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Posts: 4,422 |
Bobo,
there are over 15 native species of sparrows regularly found in Texas.
English House Sparrows are rarely found in natural habitat.
So, the sparrows killed in this study most likely are the native species, not the introducted English House Sparrow.
The native sparrows play an important role in spreading native grass and plant seeds, and are important to protect.
Rarely? Seen them throughout the countryside. End of the day that’s 14 birds per site, that not what most would call an enviomental disaster, probably doesn’t even move the needle much as far as impact. Like I said be interesting to see the tweeks and all the info once published. Pointed articles with limited info on ongoing scientific studies really do both sides a disfavor. As seen in this thread already Bobo, can you differentiate the field marks for House Sparrows, Black-throated, Field, Clay-colored, Dickcissels, Harris' Sparrow, White-crowned, White-throated, and House Finches, to list just a few similar species? House Sparrows are rarely found away from human structures and habitation, and very rarely in wildland areas typically inhabited by feral hogs. 14 birds per site over a short time frame is a major impact, if scaled up to a statewide level for years. Imagine if it was 14 Bobwhite Quail killed per site in a matter of weeks, then multiple that across the state for years.
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Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing
[Re: jeh7mmmag]
#7177790
05/23/18 06:26 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,262
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,262 |
I can identify a few by name but not all. I can tell which ones aren’t male House/common sparrow blk throat has a distinct blk throat and white lines on head Harris’s just move blk throat over the head Diskcissel is a mini horned lark with the yellow on head
House sparrows have been invading my tractor cab AC vents for years,
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Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing
[Re: jeh7mmmag]
#7177813
05/23/18 06:44 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,262
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,262 |
Define short time frame, 171 birds in a week, month, 5 months?? I may be wrong but I didn’t see where the article stated a time frame.
Why I hate pointed articles.
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Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing
[Re: jeh7mmmag]
#7177909
05/23/18 07:53 PM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 32,442
kmon11
junior
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junior
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 32,442 |
In Mississippi at the moment, the opine of the wildlife department hee on the hog poison The Mississippi Department of Wildlife, Fisheries, and Parks (MDWFP) is dedicated to finding new and effective tools to control wild hog populations throughout our state. One of these tools might one day include a poison that can be safely and ethically placed on the landscape. However, the concerns brought about by this product (Kaput) are too grave to overlook. Therefore, the MDWFP does not endorse and will not use this product. As stewards of the lands of Mississippi, we must always strive to make decisions based on their overall impact to the natural environment.
As the great naturalist Aldo Leopold once said “A thing is right when it tends to preserve the integrity, stability and beauty of the biotic community. It is wrong when it tends otherwise.” http://www.eregulations.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Chemical-Weapons.pdf
lf the saying "Liar, Liar your pants on fire" were true Mainstream news might be fun to watch
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Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing
[Re: jeh7mmmag]
#7177917
05/23/18 08:04 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,422
jeffbird
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
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Posts: 4,422 |
Bobo,
I am trying to track down a copy of the actual study.
Will post it if I obtain a copy.
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Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing
[Re: jeffbird]
#7177925
05/23/18 08:10 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,262
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,262 |
Bobo,
I am trying to track down a copy of the actual study.
Will post it if I obtain a copy. That’s what I’m talking about Thank you, look forward to a good interesting read.
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Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#7177933
05/23/18 08:15 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,422
jeffbird
Extreme Tracker
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Thank you, look forward to a good interesting read.
Yep, the source documents always seem to have more information of importance and interest. You're welcome.
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Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#7177935
05/23/18 08:15 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
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Define short time frame, 171 birds in a week, month, 5 months?? I may be wrong but I didn’t see where the article stated a time frame.
Why I hate pointed articles.
Stacking assumption on top of assumption on things not in the article or the study (at least from what we can see) doesn’t do anyone any favors either. Assumptions about being “mainly house sparrows” or “invasive species” being dense at the bait sites or most of the birds being “itty-bitty” ones that die quickly so you will find them or the study probably not “moving the needle” re: environmental impacts, etc., etc., have come from you only.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing
[Re: jeffbird]
#7177942
05/23/18 08:20 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,262
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,262 |
Thank you, look forward to a good interesting read.
Yep, the source documents always seem to have more information of importance and interest. You're welcome. It’s the information that counts. If the said 171 birds observed after day two, then shut the study down until they figured a better delivery method, 171 over 3 months. That’s 4 birds per month per site. Huge difference I’m really looking forward to the Canadian Macaque CWD study to be fully released but appears it’s going to be a while still.
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Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#7177954
05/23/18 08:32 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,262
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,262 |
Define short time frame, 171 birds in a week, month, 5 months?? I may be wrong but I didn’t see where the article stated a time frame.
Why I hate pointed articles.
Stacking assumption on top of assumption on things not in the article or the study (at least from what we can see) doesn’t do anyone any favors either. Assumptions about being “mainly house sparrows” or “invasive species” being dense at the bait sites or most of the birds being “itty-bitty” ones that die quickly so you will find them or the study probably not “moving the needle” re: environmental impacts, etc., etc., have come from you only. Lol, so you are offended that I suggested arbitrary examples to show that article was doing the same thing... I’m not surprised. This pointed articled is no different then you or flounder on a CWD thread trying to use the Canadian Macaque article to say CWD can jump to humans from ingesting CWD whitetail meat. Another Study that hasn’t been released yet so pulling what essentially equals arbitrary info from it to support you hypothesis. Go sue a tree or something, but don’t troll me
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Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#7177967
05/23/18 08:46 PM
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Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 210
Jungleexplorer
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 210 |
Don’t mess with Mother Nature Like introducing hogs... wonder who did that
Ahem! That would be some big hunting clubs down around Corpus.
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Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing
[Re: Jungleexplorer]
#7177973
05/23/18 08:57 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,262
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,262 |
Don’t mess with Mother Nature Like introducing hogs... wonder who did that
Ahem! That would be some big hunting clubs down around Corpus. I laughed when I read some states banned hog hunting to prevent the spread, I’ll be damned if it isn’t working. Grant it they have a big pile of $$$ for government trapping and Depredation programs. But non the less they aren’t jumping five counties away.
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Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing
[Re: jeh7mmmag]
#7177982
05/23/18 09:11 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,422
jeffbird
Extreme Tracker
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Don’t mess with Mother Nature Like introducing hogs... wonder who did that
Ahem! That would be some big hunting clubs down around Corpus. I laughed when I read some states banned hog hunting to prevent the spread, I’ll be damned if it isn’t working. Grant it they have a big pile of $$$ for government trapping and Depredation programs. But non the less they aren’t jumping five counties away. feral pigs have been around since the time of the early European settlers. https://tpwd.texas.gov/huntwild/wild/nuisance/feral_hogs/Early Spanish explorers probably were the first to introduce hogs in Texas over 300 years ago. As colonization increased, hog numbers subsequently increased. They provided an important source of cured meat and lard for settlers. During the fight for Texas independence as people fled for safety into the United States or Mexico, many hogs escaped or were released. It was not until the mid 1800s when hostilities between the United States and Mexico ended that settlers once again began bringing livestock back into Texas. The livestock included hogs that ranged freely. Many escaped, contributing to the feral population. In the 1930s, European wild hogs, "Russian boars," were first imported and introduced into Texas by ranchers and sportsmen for sport hunting. Most of these eventually escaped from game ranches and began free ranging and breeding with feral hogs. Because of this crossbreeding, there are very few, if any, true European hogs remaining in Texas. Feral hogs are unprotected, exotic, non-game animals. Therefore, they may be taken by any means or methods at any time of year. There are no seasons or bag limits, however a hunting license and landowner permission are required to hunt them.
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Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing
[Re: jeffbird]
#7178007
05/23/18 09:31 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,262
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,262 |
Don’t mess with Mother Nature Like introducing hogs... wonder who did that
Ahem! That would be some big hunting clubs down around Corpus. I laughed when I read some states banned hog hunting to prevent the spread, I’ll be damned if it isn’t working. Grant it they have a big pile of $$$ for government trapping and Depredation programs. But non the less they aren’t jumping five counties away. feral pigs have been around since the time of the early European settlers. https://tpwd.texas.gov/huntwild/wild/nuisance/feral_hogs/Early Spanish explorers probably were the first to introduce hogs in Texas over 300 years ago. As colonization increased, hog numbers subsequently increased. They provided an important source of cured meat and lard for settlers. During the fight for Texas independence as people fled for safety into the United States or Mexico, many hogs escaped or were released. It was not until the mid 1800s when hostilities between the United States and Mexico ended that settlers once again began bringing livestock back into Texas. The livestock included hogs that ranged freely. Many escaped, contributing to the feral population. In the 1930s, European wild hogs, "Russian boars," were first imported and introduced into Texas by ranchers and sportsmen for sport hunting. Most of these eventually escaped from game ranches and began free ranging and breeding with feral hogs. Because of this crossbreeding, there are very few, if any, true European hogs remaining in Texas. Feral hogs are unprotected, exotic, non-game animals. Therefore, they may be taken by any means or methods at any time of year. There are no seasons or bag limits, however a hunting license and landowner permission are required to hunt them. Missouri banned the hunting of Hogs on public land to try to curve the spread of hogs via release for hunting purposes(which why else would someone release them), so far thier efforts are working to contain the spread of hogs. NY banned it in its entirety, KS no sport hunting(only landowner), Minnesota it’s banned, Nevada it’s banned, ND banned, Utah it’s banned..
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Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing
[Re: Double Naught Spy]
#7178325
05/24/18 05:07 AM
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 13,591
1860.colt
emoji colt.45
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emoji colt.45
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 13,591 |
i'm postaddic
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Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing
[Re: jeh7mmmag]
#7178432
05/24/18 12:36 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091 |
With a current population in excess of 1.5 million feral hogs that covers most of Texas, I’m pretty sure the horse has long ago left the barn on the “banning hunting to prevent more from being released” strategy here.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#7178550
05/24/18 02:17 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,262
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,262 |
With a current population in excess of 1.5 million feral hogs that covers most of Texas, I’m pretty sure the horse has long ago left the barn on the “banning hunting to prevent more from being released” strategy here. Where did I infer that? Point it out! Obviously you are only here to troll and not read. thankfully some states have taken note about our failures with controlling the dispersal of feral Hogs. The still have the ability to stop the oops populations. TAHC should of never approved the release even of barrows or transportation. Our biggest down fall has been private citizen releases across the Texas. It has escalated the expansion 5x fold. Oklahoma is another perfect example of a failed plan to control hog dispersal via back of a truck. PH farms had what equates to as hundreds getting out of thier “hunting” area. Everyone of those hogs where trucked in and released. Now that population is moving in to KS. I’m sure the hogs in the Lincoln National forest in NM flew there from outer space. I’m sure these Hampshire pigs just migrated from STX into the hill country.......and stayed so pure.... I can tell you exactly where most the hogs around the city of Mason came from, I remember when they “got out” of a set of pens in late 80’s. Only one way to stop the release of hogs.... take the incentive of hunting away Oh and you map is wrong. There are hogs around and within 10 miles of DFW airport, and I hit one last Jan between plains and brownfield.
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Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing
[Re: jeh7mmmag]
#7178586
05/24/18 02:46 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 18,545
ducknbass
THF Celebrity
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Bobo.... Really. That would open up a can of worms. Deer population out of control? No hunting. Where did all these exotics come from? Oops no hunting.
I could go for no transporting and releasing. But no hunting? No
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Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing
[Re: jeh7mmmag]
#7178593
05/24/18 02:55 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
THF Celebrity
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Yes, it’s a silly proposition totally without logical basis here in TX. We are already “in the soup” and they breed like rabbits - literally. If you think it’s a problem that might slow population growth in certain areas, ban the transport/release of hogs while maintaining all other current methods of eradication (including hunting).
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing
[Re: ducknbass]
#7178595
05/24/18 02:57 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,262
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,262 |
Bobo.... Really. That would open up a can of worms. Deer population out of control? No hunting. Where did all these exotics come from? Oops no hunting.
I could go for no transporting and releasing. But no hunting? No It only works if you have limited numbers like MO or KS, by taking the incentive away they don’t randomly turn up in other areas. Obviously Texas is well past transportation or release restrictions since they are in every county now. If we had implemented a KS type policy in the 80’s, things would most likely be very different Also You're comparing two different things. No deer/ungulate has 3 litters and up to 40 piglets year. You can actually control deer populations with tags/rifle. Doesn’t work with pigs well. But if you couldn’t hunt exotics would we have them in current numbers? Hog occupying every county in Texas did not come from natural dispersal from the 1800’s and coastal Spaniards.
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Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing
[Re: jeh7mmmag]
#7178605
05/24/18 03:06 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 18,545
ducknbass
THF Celebrity
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I agree with everything you said. But advocating no hunting for them in Texas as a way to control them is not a good argument. I'd still say no transporting and releasing could would help in some areas. But as you said the cat is out of the bag.
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Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing
[Re: ducknbass]
#7178612
05/24/18 03:11 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,262
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,262 |
I agree with everything you said. But advocating no hunting for them in Texas as a way to control them is not a good argument. I'd still say no transporting and releasing could would help in some areas. But as you said the cat is out of the bag. Im not advocating that, especially in TX. That’s NP inferring/making up crap again MO is spending a lot of money to reduce current populations but according to them it’s working. In theory, You see hogs, you call they come trap entire sounder instead of the one or two offs you get with a rifle. I like the KS approach the best. Only landowners can shoot them. Still have the ability to eliminate them outside of government trapping and no incentive to release.
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Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#7178728
05/24/18 04:54 PM
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 13,591
1860.colt
emoji colt.45
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emoji colt.45
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 13,591 |
[quote=BOBO the Clown]
Don’t mess with Mother Nature Like introducing hogs... wonder who did that
Ahem! That would be some big hunting clubs down around Corpus. I laughed when I read some states banned hog hunting to prevent the spread, I’ll be damned if it isn’t working. Grant it they have a big pile of $$$ for government trapping and Depredation programs. But non the less they aren’t jumping five counties away. feral pigs have been around since the time of the early European settlers. https://tpwd.texas.gov/huntwild/wild/nuisance/feral_hogs/Early Spanish explorers probably were the first to introduce hogs in Texas over 300 years ago. As colonization increased, hog numbers subsequently increased. They provided an important source of cured meat and lard for settlers. During the fight for Texas independence as people fled for safety into the United States or Mexico, many hogs escaped or were released. It was not until the mid 1800s when hostilities between the United States and Mexico ended that settlers once again began bringing livestock back into Texas. The livestock included hogs that ranged freely. Many escaped, contributing to the feral population. In the 1930s, European wild hogs, "Russian boars," were first imported and introduced into Texas by ranchers and sportsmen for sport hunting. Most of these eventually escaped from game ranches and began free ranging and breeding with feral hogs. Because of this crossbreeding, there are very few, if any, true European hogs remaining in Texas. Feral hogs are unprotected, exotic, non-game animals. Therefore, they may be taken by any means or methods at any time of year. There are no seasons or bag limits, however a hunting license and landowner permission are required to hunt them. Missouri banned the hunting of Hogs on public land to try to curve the spread of hogs via release for hunting purposes(which why else would someone release them), so far thier efforts are working to contain the spread of hogs. NY banned it in its entirety, KS no sport hunting(only landowner), Minnesota it’s banned, Nevada it’s banned, ND banned, Utah it’s banned.. were bouts in Minnesota be them thar wild hogs roman ? Born & raised thar. Back then farmers had hogs, we usedta ride grandpas hogs as kids. If hogs, cattle or other livestock got loose, people Helped out getting them back. Now its hog farms. Aint heard of NO hog hunten here. while in hunted hogs (the other wild game) every one complaining bout the hogs, yet was all bout the bucks, just like with deer leases. Seen the games played, & was BLESSED when a WMA opened up just down the road. The county was buck only when moved in 83, couldnt get doe tag, not enough deer. So as pappy says: took me bow in hand & took a stand on WMA . & even when it went ta 4 deer county, still mostly hunted WMA. Said it before. what once was price of poormans food stamps, has become a Rich mans Sport my posts get me on most peoples ignorance list.
i'm postaddic
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Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#7179490
05/25/18 12:11 PM
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Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 474
rex47
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 474 |
Don't mess with mother nature. This is just to appease a few folks who complained the most to the ag comm. You going to bait the whole state... Lots of money made off of hogs as well. I can only see this effective in large crop areas but that is a ton of bait and maintenance constantly. Don’t mess with Mother Nature Like introducing hogs... wonder who did that There is no effective solution at this time. Large crop areas are actually better suited for Aerial management practices. Gun/archery ground hunting is not effective that’s for sure. I’d like to seen them completely removed from landscape, The way they have to deliver the poison isn’t the answer, if you have to deliver it from a feeder then you can use a drop trap. Just a lazier way of doing it I do want to see the studies run thier course. Findings will be interesting I killed my first wild hog on red river in 1969. supposedly 90 head got loose about 1 year before.
when the going gets really tough, I sit down and rest
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Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing
[Re: rex47]
#7179721
05/25/18 03:18 PM
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 13,591
1860.colt
emoji colt.45
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emoji colt.45
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 13,591 |
Don't mess with mother nature. This is just to appease a few folks who complained the most to the ag comm. You going to bait the whole state... Lots of money made off of hogs as well. I can only see this effective in large crop areas but that is a ton of bait and maintenance constantly. my problem was the constant maintenance of the bahaya grass, mow it one day & watch it grow the next. problem was: never could find any one who would pay me big bucks ta come cut it. had no problems with hogs, for en & chillen.
i'm postaddic
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Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing
[Re: 1860.colt]
#7179779
05/25/18 04:06 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
THF Celebrity
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091 |
Don't mess with mother nature. This is just to appease a few folks who complained the most to the ag comm. You going to bait the whole state... Lots of money made off of hogs as well. I can only see this effective in large crop areas but that is a ton of bait and maintenance constantly. my problem was the constant maintenance of the bahaya grass, mow it one day & watch it grow the next. problem was: never could find any one who would pay me big bucks ta come cut it. had no problems with hogs, for en & chillen.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#7179944
05/25/18 06:37 PM
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 13,591
1860.colt
emoji colt.45
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emoji colt.45
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 13,591 |
dang android. Needs update. Your vid or pic not reponding NP.
i'm postaddic
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Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing
[Re: 1860.colt]
#7179953
05/25/18 06:46 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
THF Celebrity
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dang android. Needs update. Your vid or pic not reponding NP. Here’s the non-video version:
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#7180015
05/25/18 07:54 PM
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 13,591
1860.colt
emoji colt.45
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emoji colt.45
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 13,591 |
dang android. Needs update. Your vid or pic not reponding NP. Here’s the non-video version:
i'm postaddic
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Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing
[Re: jeh7mmmag]
#7180863
05/27/18 12:29 AM
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Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,811
Bigfoot
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
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Posts: 1,811 |
seriously how could anyone really think a poison would not be congested by other animals. I am 110 % against poisoning these animals.
Last edited by Bigfoot; 05/27/18 12:29 AM.
GO TRUMP!
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Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing
[Re: jeh7mmmag]
#7180983
05/27/18 03:48 AM
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 552
gollygee
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 552 |
I remember warnings on the cartons of clay(skeet)targets several decades ago that read: WARNING: TOXIC TO HOGS. I understand that there is no warning on the new targets. Maybe the biologist could look into this. 300 WBY is very toxic too.
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Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing
[Re: jeh7mmmag]
#7181327
05/27/18 09:09 PM
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 11,857
Simple Searcher
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I have almost been convinced that no one really wants to eradicate hogs. Leasers get all excited when they find pigs on camera. Some even complain that they do not have pigs and ask how to attract them. I have heard ranchers complain about them, when I offered to come shoot them they say “$300 a gun" or $200 a pig. Clearly, they are not that excited about killing them all. Many on this forum are sponsored by optics and rifle companies for their efforts at videoing hog hunts for entertainment. Go to YouTube and search “pig hunt” and you get 2,460,000 hits. This is a billion-dollar business. Hunters come from other states and pay huge amounts of money to hunt hogs here in Texas. Some pay huge dollars for helicopter hunts. We even had one whiner on here that claimed he spent all his savings for the once in a life time helicopter hunt. Outfitters use hogs as a calling card. Shoot and axis and get a free pig. Why only one pig? Because they do NOT want to eradicate them.
"Man is still a hunter, still a simple searcher after meat..." Robert C. Ruark
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Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing
[Re: jeh7mmmag]
#7181335
05/27/18 09:27 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
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I think you are onto something SS.
They’re rats to me, but many seem to see them as a notch below Cape Buffalo. Seems like the young urban dwellers are especially enamored with them. I can see why - they are plentiful and easy to hunt so there’s almost always action.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing
[Re: jeh7mmmag]
#7181353
05/27/18 10:06 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 8,217
Double Naught Spy
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 8,217 |
It is a two-edged sword. I was making videos long before I got associated with any optics group. They are just fun, LOL.
Many landowners do complain about the hogs but also want to charge. It is because they know the johnny-come-lately isn't really there to help with any problems, but to come in more a mini-vacation and get back to the real world. Few folks actually hunt for the purpose of killing as many hogs as they can and do it with any regularity. That is a reality and the landowners know it. On top of that, they can offset much of their losses by having paying hunters, if they want to deal with such folks.
It is true that it is big business, no doubt about it. People love to hunt hogs and people hate the destruction they do. Most people who love to hunt them just can't spend much time doing it with any regularity.
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Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing
[Re: Double Naught Spy]
#7181803
05/28/18 03:15 PM
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 13,591
1860.colt
emoji colt.45
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emoji colt.45
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 13,591 |
It is a two-edged sword. I was making videos long before I got associated with any optics group. They are just fun, LOL.
Many landowners do complain about the hogs but also want to charge. It is because they know the johnny-come-lately isn't really there to help with any problems, but to come in more a mini-vacation and get back to the real world. Few folks actually hunt for the purpose of killing as many hogs as they can and do it with any regularity. That is a reality and the landowners know it. On top of that, they can offset much of their losses by having paying hunters, if they want to deal with such folks.
It is true that it is big business, no doubt about it. People love to hunt hogs and people hate the destruction they do. Most people who love to hunt them just can't spend much money doing it with any regularity. FIFY
i'm postaddic
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Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing
[Re: jeh7mmmag]
#7182110
05/28/18 11:25 PM
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Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 672
Midwaytmm
Tracker
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Tracker
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Posts: 672 |
The other day, we had some folks drive up to our house. It’s about 1800 ft from the blacktop, and you can’t see it until you’re about 200 ft away . They were great folks, just offering to “help local landowners with their problems “. I told them about the mowing, fences, washouts ect. Haven’t seen them since........
Lots of folks really want help, and want them gone . Lots of guys offering help. But the guys offering help aren’t gonna sit there all night, and look at empty pastures till the sun comes up. They want to show up, shoot at pigs in under 5 min, then make a YouTube video of the hunt, and review whatever thermal/i2 they bought last week . Owners/producers know this . They charge accordingly. The pigs do way more damage than the $they generate. But it’s better than nothing .
The figures do damages to property are estimated, and exaggerated. I was bored and had ext agent/trapper out the other day. They estimated the damage to one of our dams to be 10k . It took me about 20 min and handful of Bermuda to fixit. But if I’d hired it done, the govt way, it would have cost 10k. They’re a pain in the a**. They tear stuff up, and leave. They’re not as bad as internet makes them sound. Some folks make $, some folks get to come out here and shoot them
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Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing
[Re: jeh7mmmag]
#7182393
05/29/18 06:15 AM
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 17,712
Txduckman
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Aug 2004
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Yep. Or the places we go and pay would just do real eradication. There are needs for what some of the guys do one here for crop fields but outside of that, they bring in extra money and are fun for the pig hunters. My buddy is paying the ranch $200 a day for their problem... they never get rid of the problem. And don't want too from what I see they make $4K a year. Another friend says the ground they root up creates a plowed area for deer forbes. I can't argue either side.
Personally, they are here to stay and fun to hunt and don't impact deer one bit. But can make a mess of someone's yard or crops. Deal with it and don't call the news for every problem you have. That means hunt them and stop complaining. They will leave. Sit back and do nothing is being lazy. Might mean sitting in a blind for days killing them or trapping.
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Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing
[Re: Txduckman]
#7182692
05/29/18 04:06 PM
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,170
Jimbo
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,170 |
Yep. Or the places we go and pay would just do real eradication. There are needs for what some of the guys do one here for crop fields but outside of that, they bring in extra money and are fun for the pig hunters. My buddy is paying the ranch $200 a day for their problem... they never get rid of the problem. And don't want too from what I see they make $4K a year. Another friend says the ground they root up creates a plowed area for deer forbes. I can't argue either side.
Personally, they are here to stay and fun to hunt and don't impact deer one bit. But can make a mess of someone's yard or crops. Deal with it and don't call the news for every problem you have. That means hunt them and stop complaining. They will leave. Sit back and do nothing is being lazy. Might mean sitting in a blind for days killing them or trapping. Exactly!....Get off your butt and do something about it! As said they are here to stay, and just whinning about it won't do darn thing. If hogs are such a problem, let people have access to trap and hunt them, and the less you charge the faster the problem subsides.
Thursday at 12:45 PM #33 Once i learned that i didn't "NEED" to kill something, and that if i did kill something all the fun stopped and work began, i was a much better hunter.
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Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing
[Re: jeh7mmmag]
#7185864
06/01/18 07:14 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,422
jeffbird
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,422 |
Bobo,
here are some specifics received today by email:
Non-target bird species impacted:
White-crowned Sparrows (121) Red-winged blackbirds (26)
Dark-eyed juncos (11)
Wild turkeys (4)
American crows (3)
Northern Cardinals (3)
Meadowlarks (2)
Brown-headed cowbird (1).
Also keep in mind, these are the carcasses recovered. Based on studies I am familiar with, dead bird carcasses only last a matter of hours before being consumed by other animals and essentially 100% are gone with 72 hours.
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Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing
[Re: jeffbird]
#7185909
06/01/18 08:32 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,262
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,262 |
Bobo,
here are some specifics received today by email:
Non-target bird species impacted:
White-crowned Sparrows (121) Red-winged blackbirds (26)
Dark-eyed juncos (11)
Wild turkeys (4)
American crows (3)
Northern Cardinals (3)
Meadowlarks (2)
Brown-headed cowbird (1).
Also keep in mind, these are the carcasses recovered. Based on studies I am familiar with, dead bird carcasses only last a matter of hours before being consumed by other animals and essentially 100% are gone with 72 hours.
That’s not good, did they state a time line as in how long bait was out? Thank you for posting, a lot better info.
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Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing
[Re: jeh7mmmag]
#7185996
06/01/18 10:03 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,422
jeffbird
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,422 |
No, do not have the time interval yet, but working on it.
White-crowned sparrows and Juncos are winter visitors, so obviously it was during the winter months.
The mixture of species in the spring and summer nesting season likely would be different to a degree.
Still, the mix killed surprised me, but all are birds that feed on seeds on the ground, among other things.
So, quail likely are in the mix if there are any left in the area, but disappear quickly once dead.
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Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing
[Re: jeh7mmmag]
#7186077
06/01/18 11:19 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,262
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,262 |
Turkeys are surprising, it’s big bird. So much for a little spill over...
Interesting, unfortunately it’s not showing much promise on either end of the spectrum.
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Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing
[Re: jeh7mmmag]
#7186104
06/01/18 11:45 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,422
jeffbird
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,422 |
The study was for five days with fourteen feeding stations in early March.
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Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing
[Re: jeffbird]
#7186132
06/02/18 12:27 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,262
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,262 |
The study was for five days with fourteen feeding stations in early March.
That puts a whole new context to it. 2.44 birds a day per station (found) that’s a lot Glad they did it up here and not Aransas. Did they say what the tweak/adjustment going forward would be?
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Re: Bird deaths a setback in Texas feral hog poison testing
[Re: jeh7mmmag]
#7186166
06/02/18 01:06 AM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,422
jeffbird
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
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Posts: 4,422 |
It’s on hold for now.
That rate of unintended kill would be devastating if scaled up to the state level.
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