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#7170817 - 05/15/18 05:28 PM Re: Guiding on Public land [Re: ndhunter]
Cody Malone Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 12/15/08
Posts: 11889
Loc: My Lake in Tx
Originally Posted By: ndhunter
Do waterfowl guides pay taxes on the income they generate from their services? Most, all...none?

I don't think hunting guide fees are subject to sales or use tax


I good reputable and savvy guide pays taxes on all income. It's all I do between fishing, deer and goose hunting and I pay taxes every year, if begggg for a return. We pay self employment taxes as well. May not answer our question bc I'm a guide bot a tax person that's why I pay my CPA lol
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#7170830 - 05/15/18 05:44 PM Re: Guiding on Public land [Re: ducknbass]
woodduckhunter Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 04/25/11
Posts: 298
Originally Posted By: ducknbass
Originally Posted By: woodduckhunter
how is not allowing guiding on public waters in texas an overstep of states rights? The state doesn't even own and or control the majority of the lakes anyway. IMO some of the lakes should be open to hunting to provide some a place to go hunt and enjoy. But having a "monetary gain" off of something that you did not build, pay for, maintain, etc? Tell me what and how anything benefits from having duck guides running around on public waters?


So if the state does not own, control them wouldn't it be bit of a step for it to be a state law against it?


don't waste any of your time trying to make sense of the majority of the things our government from top to bottom does these days

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#7171016 - 05/15/18 08:42 PM Re: Guiding on Public land [Re: woodduckhunter]
Sniper John Offline
gumshoe

Registered: 08/31/05
Posts: 16806
Loc: North Texas
From Texas Water Code

Sec. 11.0235. POLICY REGARDING WATERS OF THE STATE. (a) The waters of the state are held in trust for the public, and the right to use state water may be appropriated only as expressly authorized by law

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#7171045 - 05/15/18 09:14 PM Re: Guiding on Public land [Re: Cody Malone]
Heisman25g Online   content


Registered: 08/07/09
Posts: 376
Originally Posted By: Cody Malone
Originally Posted By: Sniper John
hammer

Cody,
I don't have an opinion on it personally, but I am curious. What "knowledge, information, or awareness" are people lacking related to guides on public? I know when Kansas outlawed it there was a lot of in depth discussion with that State on the pros and cons from both sides before they made the change.


Compare apples to apples like these examples
Guiding fishing on PUBLIC lakes = momentary profit while bringing clients to the area to spend money in the area they would never come to unless they booked with the guide generating money for the state with licenses, hotel taxes, and the local economy

Uber/lift drivers using public roads = monitory profit while commuting ppl to and from the above mentioned


Not apples to apples.

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#7171081 - 05/15/18 09:51 PM Re: Guiding on Public land [Re: Cody Malone]
ndhunter Online   content
Extreme Tracker

Registered: 09/03/05
Posts: 4047
Loc: Dallas, TX
Originally Posted By: Cody Malone
Originally Posted By: ndhunter
Do waterfowl guides pay taxes on the income they generate from their services? Most, all...none?

I don't think hunting guide fees are subject to sales or use tax


I good reputable and savvy guide pays taxes on all income. It's all I do between fishing, deer and goose hunting and I pay taxes every year, if begggg for a return. We pay self employment taxes as well. May not answer our question bc I'm a guide bot a tax person that's why I pay my CPA lol


Yeah I should have been more specific. Stands to reason a professional full time guide like yourself reports income.

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#7171652 - 05/16/18 04:34 PM Re: Guiding on Public land [Re: Sniper John]
Duck_Hunter Online   content
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 10/30/14
Posts: 5961
Originally Posted By: Sniper John
-----Original Message-----
> From: TPWD@prodweb2.tpwd.state.tx.us
> [mailto:TPWD@prodweb2.tpwd.state.tx.us]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2011 8:41 PM
> To:
> Subject: Web Site - E-MAIL REPLY REQUESTED - Hunting on Public Lands in Texas
>
>
> *** E-mail reply requested!
>
> Comment or Question:
>
> Is it legal for professional hunting guides to charge money to
> take people hunting on public land like the LBJ grasslands here
> in Texas? also what kind of insurance do these guides need to
> have in case of an accident? Also is there some kind of permit
> these guides need to have in order to do business in Texas?


> From: hunt <hunt@tpwd.state.tx.us>
> Date: February 24, 2011 7:40:17 AM CST
> To:
> Subject: RE: Web Site - E-MAIL REPLY REQUESTED - Hunting
>
> They are unable to do so since they would not be able to that
>since a Hunting Lease license is required of a landowner or
>landowner's agent who leases hunting rights to another person
>on property they own or control for pay or other consideration.
>The license must be displayed on the property.
> The guide is not the landowner or landowner's agent
>since they do not own the property nor lease it since it is
>open to all the public to utilize. They also would not be able
>to acquire a Hunting Lease license due to the open statement.
>
>
>


A) That area is federal land.
B) As if that area isnít crowded enough...lake namer (even if itís another forum memberís email, you posted it. grin)
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I just turned it on . I was looking bird dogs in the butt this morning.



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#7171698 - 05/16/18 06:11 PM Re: Guiding on Public land [Re: Duck_Hunter]
Sniper John Offline
gumshoe

Registered: 08/31/05
Posts: 16806
Loc: North Texas
Originally Posted By: Duck_Hunter


A) That area is federal land.
B) As if that area isnít crowded enough...lake namer (even if itís another forum memberís email, you posted it. grin)


The answer was written addressing all public land "public land like...". As said earlier I also asked TPWD as well in reference to all public land and got a near identical answer, but it was a very long time ago. Feel free to email them yourself with the question. I am fairly sure you will get the same answer. While your at it, ask them about how it does or does not apply to public water and post the answer for us please. And yes it is no secret, Everyone knows I hunt Lake Ray Roberts. More mallards than any lake in the States. Any guides not operating there are really missing out.

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#7171719 - 05/16/18 06:39 PM Re: Guiding on Public land [Re: Hko]
Sniper John Offline
gumshoe

Registered: 08/31/05
Posts: 16806
Loc: North Texas
My only public land guide encounter story.

I was in the parking area off a public land access point on Ray Bob. I had two friends that met me there. We were packed up with decoys and gear about to hit the trail when a truck slides into the parking area. A guy gets out, intercepts us and says "y'all better not be headed to my spot, I have two clients coming". I had never met or seen this guy before. I told him "I would have no idea if I was headed to your spot or not". Turned out he had had a run in with some other hunters the day before over a hunting spot with the game warden called by one of the parties to diffuse the situation. I chose to handle the situation different than the previous hunters. I knew the area well and we were the only two groups so I told him something like "only you know where you are hunting, your the guide, you tell me where to hunt". I agreed with his recommendation. All went well, both parties limiting out. We walked up to visit with him and his clients after the hunt. I used the opportunity to pick his brain. I figured out he was hunting on a submerged road bed/well pad that ducks lounge over late morning. Easy to find because of the remains of a platform he had built when the water was higher. I still have that spot in my portfolio of hunting spots and have hunted it more than a few times. As well as an area on another lake he inadvertently gave up to us that season.

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#7171781 - 05/16/18 07:37 PM Re: Guiding on Public land [Re: Sniper John]
Guy Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 27950
Loc: Lake X
This thread is starting to really take shape. Someone pass the salt. popcorn

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#7171910 - 05/16/18 09:36 PM Re: Guiding on Public land [Re: Hko]
Lalo Offline


Registered: 07/22/09
Posts: 22
As an individual, I can handle finding that my first choice spot, and maybe my second and third, are taken. I don't like that, but I can live with it. A guide literally can't afford to have that happen. He can't afford to have someone get to the spot first, in which case his clients will chew his head off. It makes for too much pressure. It leads the guides in high pressure places to get nasty to reserve their spot.
The experts on this forum always tell us the same thing: Ya gotta be on the "X." Most of the lake is worthless. There are only a few spots that are really good. But what if I get to the X and find a guide has put up a fancy blind on it? Yes, they do it. They will say it is to make their clients comfortable. Really, it is because they are like lawless and arrogant squatters, taking over PUBLIC land and claiming it as their own. Sometimes guides on the places I hunt throw out decoys the night before to claim their spot. Sometimes they send out some lowly employee to sit in "their" blind at 2 a.m. This last is maybe the least egregious, but it makes it harder and harder for the average guy to find a place to hunt.
Cody Malone, you must hunt remote places. If you hunt places where there really isn't any pressure, and you are respectful of those who get there before you, I guess I don't see anything wrong with that, but that is not the norm.
Sniper John, you handled your situation admirably. I never get in arguments while out hunting, and I would like to say I would have handled that similarly. But a person in the situation you describe could have rightfully said something like this: Look, it is public land, and I am here at the launch first. First come, first serve. If you have a fast boat and get to your spot first, I won't hunt within 200 yards of you. But if I get to my spot first, you will have no right to tell me to leave. The fact that you make your living hunting doesn't give you any more right to a spot. First come, first serve.
Somebody is going to reply to this by saying that they know every guide in Texas and every one of them is a former choir boy who helps old ladies across the street. I am here to tell you they are not all like that. The pressure on public land it getting crazy. The guides who hunt public are not nice or even respectful of other hunters. They can't afford to be.

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#7172028 - 05/17/18 07:19 AM Re: Guiding on Public land [Re: Hko]
ducknbass Online   content
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 10/18/06
Posts: 9259
Sniper I sure ain't calling you a liar. It's clear you asked the question to the state. But it's hard for me to believe it. It would be like someone telling me that wearing leather work boots is a felony. I would have a real hard time believing them.

Whomever answered the question may or may not have even known.

As to whether it should be legal or not.. I'm torn I've never had a run in with one I do not believe. The reality is lakes are crowded they would be crowded with or without them. Anyone can be a jerk guide or not.


Edited by ducknbass (05/17/18 07:19 AM)

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#7172235 - 05/17/18 11:04 AM Re: Guiding on Public land [Re: Hko]
BDB Online   content
Tracker

Registered: 01/30/14
Posts: 776
Loc: Mesquite
You know its getting bad when public walk -in-hunters get mad at public-boat-in hunters cause as I was told one morning last season..."you have the whole lake to hunt with that boat, why are you hunting this spot?"

I simply replied I hunt where I have seen ducks no matter where its at on a lake. They went about their way and gave us good distance between us.

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#7172253 - 05/17/18 11:18 AM Re: Guiding on Public land [Re: ndhunter]
Flock Knocker Offline
Bird Dog

Registered: 01/27/14
Posts: 434
Loc: Ellis Co.
Originally Posted By: ndhunter
Do waterfowl guides pay taxes on the income they generate from their services? Most, all...none?

I don't think hunting guide fees are subject to sales or use tax



Any income generated from a business is taxed. Whether the part time guide report it the income and pay taxes on it is another matter.
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#7172272 - 05/17/18 11:46 AM Re: Guiding on Public land [Re: ducknbass]
Sniper John Offline
gumshoe

Registered: 08/31/05
Posts: 16806
Loc: North Texas
Originally Posted By: ducknbass
Sniper I sure ain't calling you a liar. It's clear you asked the question to the state. But it's hard for me to believe it. It would be like someone telling me that wearing leather work boots is a felony. I would have a real hard time believing them.

Whomever answered the question may or may not have even known.

As to whether it should be legal or not.. I'm torn I've never had a run in with one I do not believe. The reality is lakes are crowded they would be crowded with or without them. Anyone can be a jerk guide or not.



Let's ask. This sound good?

Is it legal for professional hunting guides to charge money to
take people hunting on public land in Texas. If not allowed, what regulation or regulations apply? Any exception between guiding on public State vs federal land? Any exception for public waterbodys? For example professional waterfowl guides operating on public lakes in Texas. And last any exception for public hunting guides operating on waterbodys located within public properties?

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#7172315 - 05/17/18 12:35 PM Re: Guiding on Public land [Re: Hko]
Sniper John Offline
gumshoe

Registered: 08/31/05
Posts: 16806
Loc: North Texas
Done. I directed the question to TPWD law enforcement requesting a reply. We will see if they are still giving the same answer and this time how they do or don't apply it to public water. I will post the reply when I get one.

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