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Re: Lease Boss [Re: Txduckman] #7201836 06/19/18 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted By: Txduckman
Obviously ranch hands are underpaid... at least my buddies hand sold illegal hunts to earn real money. Lol.


Sounds like some buddies.........I wouldn’t be associated with folks like that, myself.

Re: Lease Boss [Re: maximus_flavius] #7201852 06/19/18 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted By: maximus_flavius
Originally Posted By: Txduckman
Obviously ranch hands are underpaid... at least my buddies hand sold illegal hunts to earn real money. Lol.


Sounds like some buddies.........I wouldn’t be associated with folks like that, myself.


My buddy is the LO. The hired hand was arrested over a year ago. This forum help bust him. Made GW field notes a month ago.

Re: Lease Boss [Re: Txduckman] #7202163 06/19/18 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted By: Txduckman
Originally Posted By: maximus_flavius
Originally Posted By: Txduckman
Obviously ranch hands are underpaid... at least my buddies hand sold illegal hunts to earn real money. Lol.


Sounds like some buddies.........I wouldn’t be associated with folks like that, myself.


My buddy is the LO. The hired hand was arrested over a year ago. This forum help bust him. Made GW field notes a month ago.


Would your buddy like it if his ranch hand "only" accepted a bribe to hide offers from him?


Crotchety old bastidge
Re: Lease Boss [Re: Txduckman] #7202193 06/19/18 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted By: Txduckman
Originally Posted By: maximus_flavius
Originally Posted By: Txduckman
Obviously ranch hands are underpaid... at least my buddies hand sold illegal hunts to earn real money. Lol.


Sounds like some buddies.........I wouldn’t be associated with folks like that, myself.


My buddy is the LO. The hired hand was arrested over a year ago. This forum help bust him. Made GW field notes a month ago.


A-ha. Good. Wonder what the charges were exactly?

Re: Lease Boss [Re: Txduckman] #7202199 06/19/18 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted By: Txduckman
Originally Posted By: maximus_flavius
Originally Posted By: Txduckman
Obviously ranch hands are underpaid... at least my buddies hand sold illegal hunts to earn real money. Lol.


Sounds like some buddies.........I wouldn’t be associated with folks like that, myself.


My buddy is the LO. The hired hand was arrested over a year ago. This forum help bust him. Made GW field notes a month ago.

Link..... confused2


Originally Posted by Sneaky
I believe in science and I’m an insufferable [censored]
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Actually, BBC is pretty damn good

"You Cannot Simultaneously Be Politically Correct And Intellectually Honest!"
Re: Lease Boss [Re: therancher] #7202211 06/19/18 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted By: therancher
Originally Posted By: Txduckman
Originally Posted By: maximus_flavius
Originally Posted By: Txduckman
Obviously ranch hands are underpaid... at least my buddies hand sold illegal hunts to earn real money. Lol.


Sounds like some buddies.........I wouldn’t be associated with folks like that, myself.


My buddy is the LO. The hired hand was arrested over a year ago. This forum help bust him. Made GW field notes a month ago.


Would your buddy like it if his ranch hand "only" accepted a bribe to hide offers from him?


Well it would have been less damaging than what he did do and get caught! It was not his job to find or entertain anything from anyone. Job was to work cattle and fill feeders for family only. They don't lease out except a smaller part to one person the LO only deals with. Ranch hands are not ranch managers. The people factor is bigger than an extra few bucks when selecting hunters for a year round lease.

How much more was this offer y'all keep going round and round about? If current group is paying a fair rate and causes no issues at all, why change it? I would leery of someone offering more than market rate and didn't know them personally.

Re: Lease Boss [Re: Txduckman] #7202326 06/19/18 07:48 PM
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“Well it would have been less damaging than what he did do and get caught! It was not his job to find or entertain anything from anyone. Job was to work cattle and fill feeders for family only. They don't lease out except a smaller part to one person the LO only deals with. Ranch hands are not ranch managers. The people factor is bigger than an extra few bucks when selecting hunters for a year round lease.

How much more was this offer y'all keep going round and round about? If current group is paying a fair rate and causes no issues at all, why change it? I would leery of someone offering more than market rate and didn't know them personally.”

Txduckman:

Bribery isn’t defined or limited by what relationship or duties you perform. It’s an act:

bribe
brīb/Submit
verb
1.
persuade (someone) to act in one's favor, typically illegally or dishonestly, by a gift of money or other inducement.

In my case on one ranch, that one dollar/acre you seem to easily discount represents $18,000. I know, I know, there are people for whom 18 grand isn’t a blip on their radar. I’m not one of those people. And I have in fact turned down an offer for more on that ranch this year.

My point is and has been, it needs to be the LO’s decision whether or not to turn down that $. Regardless of how large or small that sum is.

Just curious, do you think your buddy would want to at least know about someone offering him/her 18 grand? For anything. Don’t get hung up in the what for, because that’s irrelevant.

Last edited by therancher; 06/19/18 07:52 PM.

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Re: Lease Boss [Re: 7mag] #7202387 06/19/18 08:29 PM
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Was on a place a couple of leases ago with 4 total guns. Two of them knew the land owner and had the "in" so to speak. One of them worked with the LO and got permission a couple of years earlier to hunt hogs. They would help him around the place from time to time for that hog hunting privilege.

The guys that had been on the place forever rightfully got a bit bent that the LO was letting them hunt hogs and put up a blind on the place they considered their lease. Note the lease read that the LO could have whoever he wanted out as long as it didn't interfere, so this was always outside deer season. When they left these two guys talked him into leasing it to them.

That's where I come in - joined them on the lease. After a while I found out me and the other gun were paying twice what they were. I brought it up, they justified it because they knew the LO and had helped him over the years (again, to hunt hogs). By the time the lease was up things had gone south... I think there's an old thread on it. One of them considered himself the lease "manager", which we always found ridiculous - he did nothing more than us. When push came to shove, it turned out he was wrong and got a big dose of reality. The LO gladly leased to me and the other gun ONLY the following year.

I would not pay for someone else's lease for this kind of thing, that is just because they found the place. If they took care of everything, including corn/feeders, and it was a turnkey deal... maybe so... but that isn't what I'm interested in anyway.


Re: Lease Boss [Re: 7mag] #7202393 06/19/18 08:32 PM
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If that is part of the employees job, yes. If not, no sense in getting mixed up in that. Just tell them to contact the LO themselves.

As a leasee, it is ones job to not do anything to change the current situation.

Re: Lease Boss [Re: Txduckman] #7202444 06/19/18 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted By: Txduckman

As a leasee, it is ones job to not do anything to change the current situation.


Well put. But then you get a guy that knows he's smarter, or is sure he's a better hunter (or usually both), and/or gets a little greedy, and problems ensue.

Each year I try to readjust my thinking about our lease and try to enjoy the situation for what it is. It, and me, aren't gonna be around forever. I try to enjoy the land, and the company and I'm not going to be the guy that gets us kicked off. We lease one pasture out of 4. 4 different groups of hunters, one strong-willed and usually frustrated square-head rancher/LO - what could possibly go wrong? grin


...and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. Gen. 1:28
Re: Lease Boss [Re: 7mag] #7202755 06/20/18 03:14 AM
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The original topic was about lease bosses and whether they should pony up the same as others. The answer to that is a personal decision with what you are comfortable with. As others have mentioned, this should be transparent otherwise you should be worrying about the gear you leave in place if they are shady enough to not give you a full picture. Besides, this is often resolved by lease agreements which are legally binding. I've had one LO tell me he only works on handshakes at which point I said thanks but no thanks (he quickly asked me to draw up a deal and then threw a fit over mutual termination notice timing). Everyone, I repeat EVERYONE, on a lease should be signing something legally binding in today's environment given the back dealing, foreign land grabbing, etc that is going on.

The whole bike rack squabble going on as a sidebar still applies to this concept. Rancher, as a LO (I'm assuming here), you should be putting the appropriate terms into that lease agreement. If you don't like the steak dinners and golf games then do something about it proactively. I'm not saying it's your fault, but I would be lying if I said you didn't prevent it from happening either. Similarly, don't put a ranch hand/manager in the position to even weigh in on the decision or receive information if you're going to be uneasy at any conceivable point.

To continue with the sidebar, my biggest complaint is LOs who blackmail lessees. This is no less immoral in my mind, and the whole thought of a $1 an acre to give the land to someone else is asinine. The amount of time, money, and sweat equity I put into land that isn't even mine is ridiculous to hold over my head (i.e. blackmail) and always be raising the ante. I make a LO's property better and it's not just by proper game management.

Don't mince my words -- I'm not saying you would take that offer (even though you said $18k is a considerable amount that you wouldn't reject on the spot), but give me a freaking break. This is why I don't take handshake deals, this is why I carefully invest in someone else's land, and this is why it's so friggin hard to find a valuable lease (don't read that as B&C scores or antler points -- I can get a trophy hunt cheaper than what I put in YoY).

Oh, and by the way, if you aren't the LO and it was your $1/acre offer that was rejected...grab a box of tissues because life ain't fair buddy.

Let me step off my soapbox and grab my popcorn again for the regularly scheduled programming...


Last edited by TLew; 06/20/18 03:17 AM.
Re: Lease Boss [Re: TLew] #7202772 06/20/18 03:59 AM
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Originally Posted By: TLew
The original topic was about lease bosses and whether they should pony up the same as others. The answer to that is a personal decision with what you are comfortable with. As others have mentioned, this should be transparent otherwise you should be worrying about the gear you leave in place if they are shady enough to not give you a full picture. Besides, this is often resolved by lease agreements which are legally binding. I've had one LO tell me he only works on handshakes at which point I said thanks but no thanks (he quickly asked me to draw up a deal and then threw a fit over mutual termination notice timing). Everyone, I repeat EVERYONE, on a lease should be signing something legally binding in today's environment given the back dealing, foreign land grabbing, etc that is going on.

The whole bike rack squabble going on as a sidebar still applies to this concept. Rancher, as a LO (I'm assuming here), you should be putting the appropriate terms into that lease agreement. If you don't like the steak dinners and golf games then do something about it proactively. I'm not saying it's your fault, but I would be lying if I said you didn't prevent it from happening either. Similarly, don't put a ranch hand/manager in the position to even weigh in on the decision or receive information if you're going to be uneasy at any conceivable point.

To continue with the sidebar, my biggest complaint is LOs who blackmail lessees. This is no less immoral in my mind, and the whole thought of a $1 an acre to give the land to someone else is asinine. The amount of time, money, and sweat equity I put into land that isn't even mine is ridiculous to hold over my head (i.e. blackmail) and always be raising the ante. I make a LO's property better and it's not just by proper game management.

Don't mince my words -- I'm not saying you would take that offer (even though you said $18k is a considerable amount that you wouldn't reject on the spot), but give me a freaking break. This is why I don't take handshake deals, this is why I carefully invest in someone else's land, and this is why it's so friggin hard to find a valuable lease (don't read that as B&C scores or antler points -- I can get a trophy hunt cheaper than what I put in YoY).

Oh, and by the way, if you aren't the LO and it was your $1/acre offer that was rejected...grab a box of tissues because life ain't fair buddy.

Let me step off my soapbox and grab my popcorn again for the regularly scheduled programming...



Not sure how you could misunderstand from my posts, who owns my ranches. Also not sure how from my posts you could think that I would be susceptible to a third party bribing one of my hands. Yes I have ranch hands but all have known they’d be fired on the spot for accepting bribes.

I have ranches where I have handshake agreements, and I have ranches that have lease agreements. All understand and acknowledge that you trespass on my land at my pleasure, and at the price I, and no one else sets.

I’ve never kicked anyone off because I’ve gotten a better offer. But I keep track of lease values, I don’t ignore offers, and I wouldn’t tolerate anyone hiding offers from me.

Your one man on a lease perspective chiding me about a measly $1 per acre (totaling 18 grand) is amusing though. I’m pretty certain you haven’t made 18 grand year over year improvements to anyone’s place.


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Re: Lease Boss [Re: 7mag] #7202774 06/20/18 04:08 AM
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Glad to see we are both making assumptions. You mentioned Kansas, who the hell am I to know whether you own land there or not. Just like you have no clue what I do for land. Resume your personal battle in a public forum -- at least my post was additive.

Re: Lease Boss [Re: TLew] #7202780 06/20/18 04:22 AM
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Originally Posted By: TLew
Glad to see we are both making assumptions. You mentioned Kansas, who the hell am I to know whether you own land there or not. Just like you have no clue what I do for land. Resume your personal battle in a public forum -- at least my post was additive.


I never mentioned Kansas in any way it could be misconstrued that I owned that ranch. And I’m pretty stinkin safe in the assumption that you don’t make 18 grand year over year improvements on someone’s land that you lease. You’re the one that jumped up on that soapbox to preach to me. You had to know it was a fragile box so quit whining like you said you would.


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Re: Lease Boss [Re: TLew] #7202907 06/20/18 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted By: TLew
Glad to see we are both making assumptions. You mentioned Kansas, who the hell am I to know whether you own land there or not. Just like you have no clue what I do for land. Resume your personal battle in a public forum -- at least my post was additive.


His Kansas analogy was solely for my reference. I farm not far from the border.

Just a good Ol fashion offseason debate.

He is having a hard time with this one because he overstepped his knowledge, and made assumptions to fill in the gaps. In his defense ol’ trex kind of set him up.

Rancher is good people.


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Re: Lease Boss [Re: 7mag] #7205056 06/22/18 04:28 PM
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I dont agree with this type of working system but its very common in Argentina also.

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