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#7156894 - 05/01/18 02:35 PM Puppy Litter Patterns
NorthTXbirdhunter Offline
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Registered: 03/17/11
Posts: 1028
Loc: Rowlett, Texas
Just a personal observation, but do litters tend to be smaller with females that are within a generation or two of being the result of a frozen semen breeding of an old lineage bloodlines. I have been witness to 3 different breedings and results have been 1,3, and 5 for the number of pups. Plus, the pups are usually marked up a little differently and have weird tendencies. I own one now that is a result of frozen breedings top and bottom and guys I donít know if she is going to have what it takes mentally to be able to get through the breaking process. She is just different!!

#7156910 - 05/01/18 02:56 PM Re: Puppy Litter Patterns [Re: NorthTXbirdhunter]
Chet Offline
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Registered: 09/07/05
Posts: 2505
Loc: Benbrook
Interesting, I'd think a better place to get feedback from owners of this kind of female would be a trial site where folks are looking at and buying AI pups a lot, and would think breed the offspring.

#7156918 - 05/01/18 03:07 PM Re: Puppy Litter Patterns [Re: NorthTXbirdhunter]
Leonardo Online   content
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Registered: 01/03/08
Posts: 4980
Loc: Wise County
Just got through whelping an AI litter of field trial pups(labs) Only 3. There are a lot of factors that go into it. Most of it has to do with timing of the insemination. Actually we did a fresh side by side and didn't have great results by number. Other factors would be the quality of semen, storage of semen, handling of it ect....

I do not think it would have an effect on the temperament or quality of the pup. There are a lot of field trial labs that are only available by AI and the offspring seem to be doing fine across the board.

One thing I see is that when you go to buying frozen semen, the owner of the bitch probably doesn't have any first hand knowledge of the sire. Just stories from years gone by or accomplishments of record.. I think breeding would take a step forward if more people were willing to make certain the sire and dam were going to be a compliment to each other instead of just looking for titles or clearances.

My luck is changing once I started buying what I know instead of what looks good on paper.

#7156929 - 05/01/18 03:17 PM Re: Puppy Litter Patterns [Re: Leonardo]
NorthTXbirdhunter Offline
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Registered: 03/17/11
Posts: 1028
Loc: Rowlett, Texas
My English Setter female was the result of a frozen semen cross from a prominent setter from the mid 80ís when 99% of the setters were considered soft. The setters have revolutionized a lot since then. Now they are breeding them to be tough as nails and wining a fair share of the trials. Well my pup has taken the tendency of the earlier generation. She is way too soft and canít even take gentle coaching. It is going to be a challenge.

#7157145 - 05/01/18 07:13 PM Re: Puppy Litter Patterns [Re: NorthTXbirdhunter]
bobcat1 Online   content
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Registered: 07/22/07
Posts: 3127
Loc: Sanger, Texas
Good luck NTBH. Sometimes those soft dogs are really smart. I have no experience with AI dogs. #1 I could never afford them. #2 I always tried to breed a male I liked to a female I liked or bought a puppy from a breeding from 2 dogs I had seen run a couple of times that ran like I wanted. Sometimes I would get lucky.

Case in point: I bought a female cocker named Missy from well bred imports from Great Britain. She is tough lots of Stamina but is a "hard" dog. She is a very hyper dog with no off switch and sometimes I wonder if she is alright mentally. If she was a pointer she would be an all day dog but I doubt she would ever be broke. I catch my self calling her "Idiot" a lot. roflmao
Bobby Barnett

#7157278 - 05/01/18 09:52 PM Re: Puppy Litter Patterns [Re: NorthTXbirdhunter]
scalebuster Offline
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Registered: 11/25/10
Posts: 3139
I canít say much about the breeding because Iím not a setter man. I do know something about soft dogs because I ruined the first softie that I ever had 25 yrs ago and had to give her away. She was a high bred little gyp and I took her too fast with too much pressure. I feel like it was all my fault she didnít make the cut.

If it were me Iíd let that pup run and just be a pup way longer than you think she should. Let her get bird crazy with no pressure and then break her gently.

The softie I have right now, I let the bird train her and the only real training I had to do was getting her to back. Sheíd hold her own bird all day but wanted to run through other dogs points. The collar shut her down for over a month but she will now back every time and hunted all last season without a collar. She works better running alone or with a big running dog. Sheís got a great nose and is like a Hoover on singles. Honestly, I would have gotten rid of her and almost shot her several times but sheís my wifeís pet baby. She has her quirks but is a solid part of the team. Sheís a one man 100 yard dog but was well worth taking my time with. I wouldnít take for her now. The last hour of season this year she was on fire and found 3 coveys hunting solo, we killed 11 pointed bird over her in less than an hour.

#7157577 - 05/02/18 09:13 AM Re: Puppy Litter Patterns [Re: scalebuster]
NorthTXbirdhunter Offline
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Registered: 03/17/11
Posts: 1028
Loc: Rowlett, Texas
I agree with you but this pup is 16 months old with a season behind her. We are close now but she has to learn to hold. She does not retain training well.


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