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#7136071 - 04/08/18 06:18 PM Hunting lease expenses and "entropy".
Creekrunner Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 10/19/12
Posts: 10537
Loc: Bexar/Gillespie, hunt Terrell
Entering year 4 on our lease. 4 friends from church. I've vented on here before about minor peccadillos. Nothing remotely worth getting off the lease. Now I've always observed how human systems, without a lot of attention to detail and occasional new energy, eventually break down. "Policies", committees, charities...the list is endless. I've always called it "entropy".

Expense reimbursements are starting to get really lax involving the deer lease. And they were never what'd you'd call efficient in the very beginning. My friend that's the "manager" runs his life, and his business, in a completely different way than I run mine. I can afford to have my expenses "blown off" (within reason). But I can't stand another man taking advantage of me, even if we consider each other close friends. I sent my expenses in in January, as instructed. I've usually had to send them in twice, 'cause he can never find the emails we'd sent before. Now there's the request for the full amount from each of us. No mention of balancing feed bills, other expenses, etc. that we've turned in. I've got an email into him (and the other two) asking what to deduct for my expenses, but here's where the "entropy" comes in. I know where this is headed.

Friendship is one thing. Bidness is another. The other two guys could care less. One has the attention span of a ferret on cocaine and the other has enough money to not even care.

Thoughts?
_________________________
...and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. Gen. 1:28

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#7136113 - 04/08/18 07:05 PM Re: Hunting lease expenses and "entropy". [Re: Creekrunner]
Nogalus Prairie Online   content
THF Celebrity

Registered: 11/22/10
Posts: 24846
Loc: Corsicana
You need a better system or better friends - one of the two.
_________________________
Originally Posted By: Russ79
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.



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#7136131 - 04/08/18 07:26 PM Re: Hunting lease expenses and "entropy". [Re: Nogalus Prairie]
maximus_flavius Offline
Tracker

Registered: 04/24/13
Posts: 937
Originally Posted By: Nogalus Prairie
You need a better system or better friends - one of the two.


+ 1

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#7136142 - 04/08/18 07:34 PM Re: Hunting lease expenses and "entropy". [Re: Creekrunner]
JCO Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 03/06/11
Posts: 167
Loc: N.E. Texas
When you need to keep score with friends you're on the wrong team.

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#7136150 - 04/08/18 07:39 PM Re: Hunting lease expenses and "entropy". [Re: Creekrunner]
Deerhunter61 Online   content
THF Trophy Hunter

Registered: 08/27/08
Posts: 7742
Loc: DFW
You guys simply need a better system. You mention expenses but I'm not sure what that entails. On my lease we are each responsible for our own set up and keeping our feeders full. We are required to feed year around. We pay for the lease and that payment includes the water and electricity we use while there. Other than that there aren't any additional expenses.

P.S. It is unfortunate but I too have experienced Christian friends who take advantage of others and it's unfortunate because it's not a very good testimony. Not only that but I've been taken advantage of by my Christian "brothers" in business. A very tough lesson I had to go thru more than once in order to learn my lesson. Remember, "Not every who says to me, Lord, Lord, will enter the Kingdom of Heaven."


Edited by Deerhunter61 (04/08/18 07:44 PM)

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#7136155 - 04/08/18 07:42 PM Re: Hunting lease expenses and "entropy". [Re: JCO]
Texas Dan Online   content
THF Celebrity

Registered: 07/28/08
Posts: 13471
Originally Posted By: JCO
When you need to keep score with friends you're on the wrong team.


Great quote.
_________________________
Dan,

Spring, Texas

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#7136205 - 04/08/18 08:24 PM Re: Hunting lease expenses and "entropy". [Re: Creekrunner]
Theringworm Online   content
Tracker

Registered: 03/02/13
Posts: 536
Loc: West TX
I do not let anyone handle my financial affairs on the lease. I pay directly to the rancher what is due. Been down that road before CR, ainít going down it again. My best friend still owes me money from 2 years ago. I reminded him once with an excel spreadsheet of the amount due. He didnít question it, just never paid. I havent reminded him again of it because, as a man with integrity/morals I feel he should recognize his own debt/shortcomings and pay as soon as possible. Thatís what I do if I had to borrow money. Completely eats me up inside until I can get it paid back. We are still best friends, but he wonít see another .01 from me, ever, even if he pays me back. Some would say I am holding a grudge. I disagree. I am simply protecting my wallet.

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#7136242 - 04/08/18 09:04 PM Re: Hunting lease expenses and "entropy". [Re: Theringworm]
Texas Dan Online   content
THF Celebrity

Registered: 07/28/08
Posts: 13471
Originally Posted By: Theringworm
I do not let anyone handle my financial affairs on the lease. I pay directly to the rancher what is due. Been down that road before CR, ainít going down it again. My best friend still owes me money from 2 years ago. I reminded him once with an excel spreadsheet of the amount due. He didnít question it, just never paid. I havent reminded him again of it because, as a man with integrity/morals I feel he should recognize his own debt/shortcomings and pay as soon as possible. Thatís what I do if I had to borrow money. Completely eats me up inside until I can get it paid back. We are still best friends, but he wonít see another .01 from me, ever, even if he pays me back. Some would say I am holding a grudge. I disagree. I am simply protecting my wallet.


Had something very similar happen to me and several other guys when the guy running the lease was working inside with just a couple of the heir landowners. The other heirs were left out for several years but eventually found out about the money that was changing hands. Of course the guy running the lease blamed everyone but himself. It created so much discord in the family that I doubt the family will ever agree to lease the property to anyone again.
_________________________
Dan,

Spring, Texas

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#7136292 - 04/08/18 10:14 PM Re: Hunting lease expenses and "entropy". [Re: Theringworm]
Creekrunner Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 10/19/12
Posts: 10537
Loc: Bexar/Gillespie, hunt Terrell
Originally Posted By: Theringworm
Some would say I am holding a grudge.


Those are the folks that owe other people money.
_________________________
...and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. Gen. 1:28

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#7136312 - 04/08/18 10:53 PM Re: Hunting lease expenses and "entropy". [Re: Creekrunner]
Txduckman Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 13724
Loc: Big D
We had a guy try pooling expenses. Didn't work as he wanted to do more than everyone else without asking. Our guys are pretty laid back. We all have our strengths and go with that. If I spend an extra $100 on corn than the others then fine. One brings filet mignon every trip. Can't complain. I bought hog paneling for 4 of the feeders. Two of us hog and turkey hunt and others don't. So we keep feeders and blinds usable year round. We don't expect others to help if they don't use it. One of our guys hasn't shot a deer in 8 years. I don't get hung up on it. I got water, electricity, and 1000 acres for less than $2000 and alone many times. I bring all the firewood in to camp but burn the most.

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#7136318 - 04/08/18 11:14 PM Re: Hunting lease expenses and "entropy". [Re: Creekrunner]
Texas Dan Online   content
THF Celebrity

Registered: 07/28/08
Posts: 13471
Originally Posted By: Creekrunner
Originally Posted By: Theringworm
Some would say I am holding a grudge.


Those are the folks that owe other people money.


clap
_________________________
Dan,

Spring, Texas

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#7136352 - 04/09/18 05:58 AM Re: Hunting lease expenses and "entropy". [Re: JCO]
Marc K Offline
Tracker

Registered: 11/02/10
Posts: 932
Loc: Eustace, TX
Originally Posted By: JCO
When you need to keep score with friends you're on the wrong team.


True on so many levels.
_________________________
A Democracy is when two wolves and a lamb vote on the dinner menu. That is why this country was not designed to be a Democracy.

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#7136376 - 04/09/18 06:39 AM Re: Hunting lease expenses and "entropy". [Re: Txduckman]
DQ Kid Offline
Extreme Tracker

Registered: 02/20/12
Posts: 4853
Loc: Flower Mound, TX
Originally Posted By: Txduckman
We had a guy try pooling expenses. Didn't work as he wanted to do more than everyone else without asking. Our guys are pretty laid back. We all have our strengths and go with that. If I spend an extra $100 on corn than the others then fine. One brings filet mignon every trip. Can't complain. I bought hog paneling for 4 of the feeders. Two of us hog and turkey hunt and others don't. So we keep feeders and blinds usable year round. We don't expect others to help if they don't use it. One of our guys hasn't shot a deer in 8 years. I don't get hung up on it. I got water, electricity, and 1000 acres for less than $2000 and alone many times. I bring all the firewood in to camp but burn the most.


Good way to be, getting 4-6 identically like minded or like motivated individuals is a virtual impossibility. Better to chase unicorns. In that size group, one to two will always be the highly motivated, highly willing to work and/or paying individual, one to two will be somewhere in the middle, one to two will be on the lower end of the scale for whatever reasons; lots of kids' activities, a nagging spouse, busy jobs, laziness or a combination of the sort. Whatever the case, co-existence/acceptance is paramount or if not, find a 1-2 person lease or buy own property. Those are pretty close to the options for most.

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#7136464 - 04/09/18 08:42 AM Re: Hunting lease expenses and "entropy". [Re: DQ Kid]
Creekrunner Offline
THF Celebrity

Registered: 10/19/12
Posts: 10537
Loc: Bexar/Gillespie, hunt Terrell
Originally Posted By: DQ Kid
Originally Posted By: Txduckman
We had a guy try pooling expenses. Didn't work as he wanted to do more than everyone else without asking. Our guys are pretty laid back. We all have our strengths and go with that. If I spend an extra $100 on corn than the others then fine. One brings filet mignon every trip. Can't complain. I bought hog paneling for 4 of the feeders. Two of us hog and turkey hunt and others don't. So we keep feeders and blinds usable year round. We don't expect others to help if they don't use it. One of our guys hasn't shot a deer in 8 years. I don't get hung up on it. I got water, electricity, and 1000 acres for less than $2000 and alone many times. I bring all the firewood in to camp but burn the most.


Good way to be, getting 4-6 identically like minded or like motivated individuals is a virtual impossibility. Better to chase unicorns. In that size group, one to two will always be the highly motivated, highly willing to work and/or paying individual, one to two will be somewhere in the middle, one to two will be on the lower end of the scale for whatever reasons; lots of kids' activities, a nagging spouse, busy jobs, laziness or a combination of the sort. Whatever the case, co-existence/acceptance is paramount or if not, find a 1-2 person lease or buy own property. Those are pretty close to the options for most.


Very well put, and I totally agree. I just know that, since I've shared some good deer that I've bothered to fart with the game cameras and see, there's going to be more "harvest rules" suddenly coming down from "on high" this upcoming season. So, the place will become less laid back each season I'm afraid. This, in combination with the expenses getting blown off more each year just makes the "writing on the wall" obvious. I'm all for good deer management and letting minor details slide. I just know the chances of where I think this is headed. Maybe not. But the friendship at church is more important to me than a leased pasture to kill deer in.

Thanks for all the input.
_________________________
...and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. Gen. 1:28

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#7136583 - 04/09/18 10:37 AM Re: Hunting lease expenses and "entropy". [Re: Creekrunner]
Pitchfork Predator Online   content
THF Celebrity

Registered: 01/25/13
Posts: 14491
Loc: Murphy, TX Dickens county
Originally Posted By: Creekrunner
Originally Posted By: Theringworm
Some would say I am holding a grudge.


Those are the folks that owe other people money.


Yep.

Hopefully they see the error in their ways.
_________________________
Marc C. Helfrich
Retirement Planner

www.insured-wealth.com
469-323-8920

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