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#7131971 - 04/03/18 10:57 PM Hornady OAL Gauge and break-action rifle weirdness
chesterc Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 03/15/13
Posts: 129
Loc: Dallas
An interesting thing happened with my new rifle and Iím not sure what to make of it.

I just bought a TC Encore Pro Hunter with a 25-06 Remington barrel. So I get out my Hornady Lock-n-Load O.A.L Gauge with the 25-06 threaded case. I insert a Nosler Partition 115 grain bullet and insert it into the chamber.

I have cleaning rod inserted into the barrel so I can push the bullet back and get a good feel for where the bullet touches the lands. So after a little back and forth and double/triple checking I get a measurement (using a Lock-n-Load bullet comparator on a digital caliper) of 2.882Ē.

Thatís an OOAL of 2.882Ē Ö Ogive Over All Length.

When Iím pushing the bullet forward with the O.A.L gauge I feel absolutely no resistance until the bullet stops all forward travel.

That has the bullet so far out of the case mouth that it just tumbles out of the case. Obviously canít do a load with that. Itís just outrageously long. I tried it a couple of more times and get the same measurement.

Iím using Noslerís loading data so I decide to put together a dummy round to their specified COAL, which is 3.250Ē. I do that and measure it with my Comparator and I get an OOAL of 2.753Ē.

I then put that cartridge into my rifle and try to close the action. Surprise! It wonít close. Well, it closesís but it wonít lock. I have to force it to lock shut. I take out the cartridge and there are marks on the bullet where the lands have pushed against the bullet.

I measure it in the Comparator and itís now 2.740Ē OOAL! I put it back in the rifle and do the same thing again and it shrinks again. Now itís 2.735Ē OOAL Ö which turns out to be as small as it gets.

So what Iíve learned is that the maximum cartridge length (measured to the bullet ogive) for my rifle with that bullet is 2.735Ē OOAL which is 0.147Ē shorter than the O.A.L. Gauge was telling me.

Huh! confused2

Has anyone else used the Hornady O.A.L Gauge on a break-action rifle? Have you had similar results?


Edited by chesterc (04/03/18 11:01 PM)

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#7131976 - 04/03/18 11:10 PM Re: Hornady OAL Gauge and break-action rifle weirdness [Re: chesterc]
jeffbird Offline


Registered: 03/09/09
Posts: 3412
Was the round completely in the chamber or was the extractor holding it out some?

Seat a bullet in a case with no primer and no powder. Seat it about 0.050Ē longer than the book max COAL. Color the bullet with a Sharpie or Marksalot. Look for the lands leaving marks. Keep moving it back 0.010Ē at a time until there are no marks. Also, holding the bullet over a kitchen match to cover it in soot works too.

_________________________
Professionally trained and certified pistol and license to carry instructor.

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#7132062 - 04/04/18 07:04 AM Re: Hornady OAL Gauge and break-action rifle weirdness [Re: chesterc]
patriot07 Offline
Veteran Tracker

Registered: 11/06/11
Posts: 2560
Loc: Royse City, TX
The other thing that can cause problems is if the modified case on your gauge wasn't screwed down tight during the test and then you screw it down before measuring. It'll give the exact results you're seeing.

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#7132370 - 04/04/18 12:34 PM Re: Hornady OAL Gauge and break-action rifle weirdness [Re: chesterc]
wp75169 Online   content
Extreme Tracker

Registered: 10/11/09
Posts: 4915
Loc: Wills Point
I vote extractor as well. It should be simple to remove the extractor for testing then replace it when done.

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#7132374 - 04/04/18 12:39 PM Re: Hornady OAL Gauge and break-action rifle weirdness [Re: chesterc]
patriot07 Offline
Veteran Tracker

Registered: 11/06/11
Posts: 2560
Loc: Royse City, TX
The Hornady OAL gauge doesn't have an extractor.

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#7132400 - 04/04/18 12:55 PM Re: Hornady OAL Gauge and break-action rifle weirdness [Re: patriot07]
jeffbird Offline


Registered: 03/09/09
Posts: 3412
Originally Posted By: patriot07
The Hornady OAL gauge doesn't have an extractor.


The Thompson Encore is a break open action, like an O/U or SxS shotgun. Typically, when the barrel on a break open action is opened and tilted down, the extractor on the barrel pushes the shell back.

The original post saying the difference was 0.142" between the two measurements (2.882" vs. 2.740") raised the thought of how much an extractor would lift the shell.

Taking the barrel off of the receiver will allow the extractor to sit flush.
_________________________
Professionally trained and certified pistol and license to carry instructor.

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#7132925 - 04/04/18 08:53 PM Re: Hornady OAL Gauge and break-action rifle weirdness [Re: jeffbird]
patriot07 Offline
Veteran Tracker

Registered: 11/06/11
Posts: 2560
Loc: Royse City, TX
Originally Posted By: jeffbird
Originally Posted By: patriot07
The Hornady OAL gauge doesn't have an extractor.


The Thompson Encore is a break open action, like an O/U or SxS shotgun. Typically, when the barrel on a break open action is opened and tilted down, the extractor on the barrel pushes the shell back.

The original post saying the difference was 0.142" between the two measurements (2.882" vs. 2.740") raised the thought of how much an extractor would lift the shell.

Taking the barrel off of the receiver will allow the extractor to sit flush.
Now I realize what you were saying...thanks.

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#7132937 - 04/04/18 09:15 PM Re: Hornady OAL Gauge and break-action rifle weirdness [Re: jeffbird]
ckat Offline
Pro Tracker

Registered: 12/02/09
Posts: 1395
Loc: Lubbock Area
Originally Posted By: jeffbird
Originally Posted By: patriot07
The Hornady OAL gauge doesn't have an extractor.


The Thompson Encore is a break open action, like an O/U or SxS shotgun. Typically, when the barrel on a break open action is opened and tilted down, the extractor on the barrel pushes the shell back.

The original post saying the difference was 0.142" between the two measurements (2.882" vs. 2.740") raised the thought of how much an extractor would lift the shell.

Taking the barrel off of the receiver will allow the extractor to sit flush.


This is my vote, too...

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#7136309 - 04/08/18 10:48 PM Re: Hornady OAL Gauge and break-action rifle weirdness [Re: chesterc]
chesterc Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 03/15/13
Posts: 129
Loc: Dallas
Thank you for all the responses. I'll make the measurements with the barrel removed and report back.

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#7138038 - 04/10/18 10:26 PM Re: Hornady OAL Gauge and break-action rifle weirdness [Re: jeffbird]
chesterc Offline
Woodsman

Registered: 03/15/13
Posts: 129
Loc: Dallas
jeffbird, you're correct. It was the extractor holding the case out of the chamber.

First, I measured the same way I did before and I got an OOAL of 2.882" touching the lands.

Then, I removed the barrel and measured again ... OOAL of 2.728". (very close to the measurement of my cartridge where I let the rifle push the bullet into the case, which was 2.735").

I made up a dummy round with an OOAL of 2.728" and put it in the re-assembled rifle. The action closes and locks just fine. When I measure the cartridge after taking it out there is no change in length and no marks on the bullet. So we have a winner!

Thank you to everyone who responded!

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#7138148 - 04/11/18 07:01 AM Re: Hornady OAL Gauge and break-action rifle weirdness [Re: chesterc]
jeffbird Offline


Registered: 03/09/09
Posts: 3412
Good morning Chester,

glad that worked out for you.

Seat the bullets 0.010Ē off of contact with the lands and go to town finding a favorite load.

up
_________________________
Professionally trained and certified pistol and license to carry instructor.

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#7139211 - 04/12/18 10:57 AM Re: Hornady OAL Gauge and break-action rifle weirdness [Re: chesterc]
Smokey Bear Online   content
Tracker

Registered: 05/11/17
Posts: 785
Loc: Texas
The Hornady OAL guage is a great tool and I use it, but using it with the standard modified case does not give an exact OAL measurement to the lands in your rifle. To obtain the exact measurement with that tool you need to either drill and tap a fire formed case from your rifle or send one to Hornady and they will do it for you, to screw onto the guage. The caliber specific case you buy is universal to fit all rifles that shoot a given SAAMI spec. cartridge. In order to do that the case head to shoulder measurement is generally a little shorter than a case fire formed in your rifle. Which accounts for the seven thousandth difference you observed. If you have the headspace bushings you can compare the two to see what the actual difference is. The measurement you get with the tool is more than adequate for what Most want to know before commencing with a new bullet though.
_________________________
Smokey Bear---Lone Star State.

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#7139279 - 04/12/18 12:31 PM Re: Hornady OAL Gauge and break-action rifle weirdness [Re: chesterc]
patriot07 Offline
Veteran Tracker

Registered: 11/06/11
Posts: 2560
Loc: Royse City, TX
Smokey Bear - I had wondered about that as well. I thought about trying to do a shoulder measurement on a fire formed case and the modified case and just adding that to the lands distance from the gauge for my loading purposes? Seems like it would work.

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#7139294 - 04/12/18 12:43 PM Re: Hornady OAL Gauge and break-action rifle weirdness [Re: chesterc]
Smokey Bear Online   content
Tracker

Registered: 05/11/17
Posts: 785
Loc: Texas
Patriot, it is not necessary unless you are trying to seat Bullets in the lands, which I do not want to do. Inking or smoking the bullet like jeffbird showed is the most accurate IMO. It is also a good bit more time consuming. I just roll with the number I get with the OAL guage and seat deeper from there.


Edited by Smokey Bear (04/12/18 12:50 PM)
_________________________
Smokey Bear---Lone Star State.

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#7139322 - 04/12/18 01:09 PM Re: Hornady OAL Gauge and break-action rifle weirdness [Re: chesterc]
patriot07 Offline
Veteran Tracker

Registered: 11/06/11
Posts: 2560
Loc: Royse City, TX
Yeah I suppose the specific number isn't important unless you're jamming them into the lands, like you said.

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